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#501
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Re: Who is to blame for Voldemort going bad?
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Which would cast some of the blame on Merope, for misuse of love potions, and some on Tom Riddle Sr., for walking out on his wife and son. However, the books also emphasise the importance of our choices. I think it would have been difficult for Tom Riddle to make good choices, due to the lack of love in his infancy and formative years. However, he could have chosen to follow the example of good people like Dumbledore. Dumbledore tried to steer Tom in the right direction; Tom chose to follow the path of more power and commiting murder to gain immortality. So while there were important factors leading Voldemort to the path of evil, he still made his own choices and therefore must accept the lion's share for his own badness IMO.
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My screen name has nothing to do with the Golden Compass. I have never read Dark Materials. My SN comes from Lyraluthuin, land-heir of Herun. I prefer problems I can throw a spear at. I would have followed Morgon all the way to Erlenstar Mountain. ![]() I would have guarded him with my life. ~~~ ~~~ |
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#502
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Re: Who is to blame for Voldemort going bad?
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Being abandoned at the orphanage does not account for Voldemort becoming what he did. They were his choices. Perhaps it's also possible that generations of in-breeding on the Gaunt side of the family left its members prone to instability - Merope, Marvolo and Morfin weren't exactly well-adjusted.
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![]() Pic by julvett at deviantart http://julvett.deviantart.com/gallery/2984632 "Relationships are like glass; sometimes it's better to leave them broken than to hurt yourself trying to put them back together." Anonymous "Like this one time I sort of ran over this girl on her bike. It was the most traumatising event of my life and she’s trying to make it about her leg. Like my pain meant nothing." - Cordelia; Buffy the Vampire Slayer S1Ep11.
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#503
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Re: Who is to blame for Voldemort going bad?
Voldemort is to blame for Voldemort going bad.
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#504
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Why Voldemort became evil
Ok, here is my theory as to why Voldemort was evil. Tom Riddle was born in 1926. He grew up during the interwar years, a period marked by widespread pessimism, uncertainty, and misanthropy. Contrary to the culture of the 19th century, people lost faith in science, technology and industry to solve the world's problems due to the carnage they caused during the First World War. Events such as the Great Depression, World War II and the Holocaust certainly didn't lighten the mood.
Growing up in an orphanage, Riddle was at the bottom of an already disheartening society. I think he developed a very misanthropic view of muggles because of this. When he found out he was a wizard, he was convinced that this magic was "the better way," a solution to the problems caused by muggle society. He dreamed of a perfect society built on magic, rather than crude muggle technology. People would be more equal, as each was automatically endowed with the means to succeed; money and standing matter less when your power comes primarily from your own body. He thought a magically society could better allow the strong to reach the top, while the weak fail. JKR has said that Voldemort cannot understand love and compassion because of his origins from a love potion. I think this complements his explanation because his lack of love and compassion for anyone allows him to justify the genocidal means to his ends; the feelings of others do not matter in creating his perfect society. He is logical, not compassionate. I also think he doesn't hate muggle-borns because he thinks their magically inferior, he just believes that they're "tainted" by growing up in the muggle world. Also, their caring for their muggle relatives would put them against his goals of exterminating muggles. I think he only played along with the crazy extremist views of his Death Eaters in order to get their support; in reality, his motivations were somewhat more complex than simple bigotry. What do you think motivates Voldemort? While I really like Harry Potter, I wish JKR had fleshed him out more; he really just seems to have been "born evil." I wish he had some interesting motivations that would make us sympathize with him more as sort of a tragic villain. |
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#505
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Re: Why Voldemort became evil
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#506
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Re: Who is to blame for Voldemort going bad?
@wolfbrother: But at the end of Deathly Hallows, he talks of making some changes, like only having Slytherin House at Hogwarts. I think he at least had some idea of where he wanted the world to go. And even if he didn't want to change society, I think that seeing the worst of muggles motivated him to become the most powerful wizard so as to "escape."
Last edited by dmeagher101; January 29th, 2012 at 4:42 pm. |
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#507
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Re: Who is to blame for Voldemort going bad?
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I think it is possible that his extreme hatred of Muggles might have been driven by the belief that his father had abandoned his mother and him. Quote:
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I agree. I don't think morals entered into the picture with Voldemort. I don't think he was trying to avenge wrongs done to him in the Muggle world. Quote:
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I think he utilised the anti-Muggleborn prejudice in order to get support. I think he did believe in it, too, because he enjoyed the idea of being important. I don't think it had much to do with seeing badness in the Muggle world. Voldemort inflicted far worse cruelties than he ever saw. Even while in the orphanage, he was bullying other students, traumatising those he took to the cave. He enoyed being more powerful, more important - that's why he thought he was better.
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![]() Pic by julvett at deviantart http://julvett.deviantart.com/gallery/2984632 "Relationships are like glass; sometimes it's better to leave them broken than to hurt yourself trying to put them back together." Anonymous "Like this one time I sort of ran over this girl on her bike. It was the most traumatising event of my life and she’s trying to make it about her leg. Like my pain meant nothing." - Cordelia; Buffy the Vampire Slayer S1Ep11.
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#508
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Re: Who is to blame for Voldemort going bad?
But if Voldemort wanted to be the most powerful person on Earth, why did he want to kill all muggles. Surely it is better to rule over 7 billion people than it is to rule over whater small number of wizards there are. I think that, in addition to being powerful, he was duly committed to eradicating muggles because of justified (in his own mind) bigotry.
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#509
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Re: Who is to blame for Voldemort going bad?
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I don't think he wanted all Muggles dead, I think he wanted to be in control of wizarding Britain, and I think he wanted Muggles oppressed, but not all murdered. Even at that, he wouldn't do so openly - I think that he would have known that if the wizarding world was exposed to Muggles, it would put them in danger. I also doubt that Voldemort had plans to rule over the entire world. I think he would have been all right with a dictatorship of one country. Look how long it took him to take over the Ministry of one country - and that was with influence of wealthy bigots, with spies and with a good knowledge of how that country's wizarding world operated. I don't think he would have managed to do the same to the entire world. What he carried out was pretty much a terrorist civil war for control of one country.
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![]() Pic by julvett at deviantart http://julvett.deviantart.com/gallery/2984632 "Relationships are like glass; sometimes it's better to leave them broken than to hurt yourself trying to put them back together." Anonymous "Like this one time I sort of ran over this girl on her bike. It was the most traumatising event of my life and she’s trying to make it about her leg. Like my pain meant nothing." - Cordelia; Buffy the Vampire Slayer S1Ep11.
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#510
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Re: Who is to blame for Voldemort going bad?
There are a few people you could blame here, but overall it was Tom himself.
But first, the 'Pureblood' worshipping of his mothers side of the family may have affected him in some kind of manner. As they breed with their cousins, maybe at one point even with their own brother or sister, has caused some mental mutations, and quite obviously physical as to Merope's family's appearance. I feel it's partially Meropes fault. Although I pity her and understand where she is going from when she didn't even try to save her own life, but she should have been brave and raised Tom herself, and show him how to love. Others theorize that Tom did not feel love because his father was under the love potion when he was concieved. But there are a lot of 'accidents' when for example a pair may be drunk and not thinking in their right minds but you don't see Dark Lords emerging from left to right, when those type of births happen a lot. I think he was starting to become Voldemort when he was 8 years old, I'm guessing. Since that's when children start to recognize what they can do as a witch or wizard. And while hating the orphanage, he misuses it to his own will. And when Dumbledore paid him a visit, and it was official that he was 'different' was when the chances of him having a change of heart grew slim. Till then he felt superior to the 'Muggles' and was probably having thoughts of destroying them at the very moment. I don't get it though. The orphanage didn't seem too bad enought to be capable of ruining anyone so internally and eternally. And the fact that he didn't cry at birth, and made no sound.... But when it was Really REALLY too late, when the last tiny speck of light would die off completley in his heart, was when he split his soul for the first time. He could feel remorse and reverse it when he split it once, but I wouldn't see that coming. It was a majority of his own fault. Although I don't think he was a rotten apple from the very beggining.
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#511
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Re: Who is to blame for Voldemort going bad?
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![]() Pic by julvett at deviantart http://julvett.deviantart.com/gallery/2984632 "Relationships are like glass; sometimes it's better to leave them broken than to hurt yourself trying to put them back together." Anonymous "Like this one time I sort of ran over this girl on her bike. It was the most traumatising event of my life and she’s trying to make it about her leg. Like my pain meant nothing." - Cordelia; Buffy the Vampire Slayer S1Ep11.
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#512
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Re: Who is to blame for Voldemort going bad?
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But would you blame another for that perspective, or Tom/Voldemort himself? For me, I think it was Tom's mind that made him seek such power. Certainly the circumstances (i.e. being magical in a nonmagical setting) permitted that feeling to grow, but I believe Tom was responsible for allowing those thoughts to get the better of him.
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#513
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Re: Who is to blame for Voldemort going bad?
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I don't think Voldemort was all that rational. And, in some ways, he did believe exactly what he wanted.However, when he met Morfin, he got a skewed version of events - Riddle Sr. left Merope and came back to his parents. Nothing about how Merope forced Riddle Sr. and that he was not a willing partner in any relationship with Merope. I think he read that as his Muggle father abandoning him. Certainly, he had issues with Muggles and Muggle-borns before this. He spent years searching for the Chamber - maybe to prove his superiority as Heir of Slytherin, maybe the attacks on Muggleborns were an added bonus, or something that didn't matter too much once he was exerting his superiority. The idea that Tom Sr. had abandoned him may have intensified his hatred. Quote:
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![]() Pic by julvett at deviantart http://julvett.deviantart.com/gallery/2984632 "Relationships are like glass; sometimes it's better to leave them broken than to hurt yourself trying to put them back together." Anonymous "Like this one time I sort of ran over this girl on her bike. It was the most traumatising event of my life and she’s trying to make it about her leg. Like my pain meant nothing." - Cordelia; Buffy the Vampire Slayer S1Ep11.
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#514
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Re: Who is to blame for Voldemort going bad?
The first day in Hogwarts he allready knew he was a decendant of Salazar Slytherin. Which made him even more arrogant. But yes, I agree that in learing that there are many other people like him, he may have felt a little 'betrayed' cause he thought he was different amongst the other children in the orphanage. So he wanted to become superior to his kind, and to be the most 'different' of them all, he strived to 'live forever', so he made 6 horcruxes, (and another without knowing).
By the way, I loved how Harry asked Tom to feel a little remorse so he wouldn't become what he saw at 'Kings Cross". Even after all Voldemort had done to Harry and countless others, do you think Harry felt him pity? Do you think Voldemort deserved to be suffering for eternal after death? Quote:
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#515
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Re: Who is to blame for Voldemort going bad?
Personally, I do not believe that Tom Riddle's hatred for Muggles was born partially because his father, a Muggle, abandoned him. I believe his idea of an ideal ancestry was shattered after his discovery of his non-magical parent, and it is because of this primarily that he harbors a grudge towards Tom Riddle Sr. As it is, Riddle showed little respect and regard for his mother, calling her weak because she succumbed to death. I believe his attitude towards Riddle Sr. would have been far more favorable (as favorable as Voldemort gets, that is) if Riddle Sr. had been a wizard.
Of course, this may bring into question the depth of Voldemort's feelings about his father... The abandonment, in his eyes, could be considered contemptuous, and may have shocked him slightly. Why would an inferior creature in terms of power run away from the superior creature? He himself gravitates towards the pull of power, whereas his father seemingly fled from it. Of course, the reason for his abandonment makes sense to the reader, as Riddle Sr. is a Muggle, and therefore naturally afraid of magic, but perhaps to young Tom (who may or may not be completely there mentally), it was yet another aspect that distanced himself from his father. It was incomprehensible in his mind, the fleeing from such power. To address his evident superiority complex, I think this extends, as has been pointed out, to all groups of people, and this includes witches and wizards. In my opinion, regardless of magical ability, Voldemort enjoys holding power over humanity, and so Muggles were merely inferior because they could not perform magic, and all wizards, save for himself, were inferior because he was the ultimate magician who pushed the boundaries beyond the normal. I honestly don't think that Voldemort's disregard for Muggles is any stronger than his disregard for other wizards. True, other wizards have the potential for earning his respect, but only in ability, not in the innate value of life.
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![]() Look at me! Look at me! The monster inside me has become so big! Obluda, Která Nemá Své Jméno "We were the only two people in the world. And we had no names." "The Devil inside the God said, 'You are me, and I am you.'" Johan, vždýt' je to nádherné jméno
Last edited by JohanT; February 9th, 2012 at 3:02 am. |
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#516
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Re: Who is to blame for Voldemort going bad?
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As for deserving to suffer for eternity after death: In general, I personally feel that the punishment doesn't fit the crime here. Eternity is a bit too long. In Voldemort's case, I'm not sure if he would have been actively suffering. I read it as him being simply stuck helpless in limbo. What's also interesting is that Voldemort already experienced a version of it when he was bodyless for 13 years. It didn't change him one bit, which leads me to believe that even after 100 years of being stuck in limbo, if given a chance, he would do the exact same things again. |
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#517
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Re: Who is to blame for Voldemort going bad?
Dude, I think no one. Merope didn't know what she was doing (if the amortentia theory is right).
And also because I think he didn't become Voldemort -- he was Voldemort since the day he was born, just took a while for him to actually become a Lord Sith... And it's not his fault either. |
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#518
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Re: Who is to blame for Voldemort going bad?
A lot of people have said that Voldie chose to be evil (and I think JKR would agree). But that sort of begs the question...*why* did Voldemort choose to become evil and Harry not? I think that it was supposed to be because Harry was loved and Voldemort wasn't. The problem is that neither of them grew up being loved. Harry doesn't remember his parents' sacrifice for him (babies aren't self-conscious that early), for example.
Somebody-or-other (too many posts in this thread!) mentioned how V might have been affected by the period in which he was growing up. This is an interesting point. Perhaps London was being bombed when he asked if he could stay at Hogwarts for the summer. The lady at the orphanage had noticed that V was not entirely a nice little boy, and some of the things V said to Dumbledore confirmed that this was a sadistic child. I think Dumbledore had an opportunity to help V, though, and he didn't take it. It does seem to me like Voldemort was always that way — or at any rate, he was always bad even though he got worse and worse as he made more horcruxes — and so it's hard for me to blame him entirely for how he turned out. I feel like somebody could have prevented it all. |
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#519
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Re: Who is to blame for Voldemort going bad?
[quote=Halcipher;5977606]The first day in Hogwarts he allready knew he was a decendant of Salazar Slytherin. Which made him even more arrogant. But yes, I agree that in learing that there are many other people like him, he may have felt a little 'betrayed' cause he thought he was different amongst the other children in the orphanage. So he wanted to become superior to his kind, and to be the most 'different' of them all, he strived to 'live forever', so he made 6 horcruxes, (and another without knowing).
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I don't think he was born evil, I think he made evil choices, and became evil. Personally, I hold Tom Riddle responsible for his choices. Quote:
As for why Harry didn't go down the same path, everyone is different. People make different choices in the same or at least similar circumstances. I don't think the other children in the orphanage went on to become notorious murderers in the Muggle world. Quote:
At any rate, Dumbledore was not the Headteacher at the time Riddle was in school. Dippet was, and he said that arrangements might have been made for Riddle to stay, if not for the circumstances with the Chamber of Secrets endangering students. Riddle had only himself to blame for being unable to stay at Hogwarts over the summer. Quote:
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![]() Pic by julvett at deviantart http://julvett.deviantart.com/gallery/2984632 "Relationships are like glass; sometimes it's better to leave them broken than to hurt yourself trying to put them back together." Anonymous "Like this one time I sort of ran over this girl on her bike. It was the most traumatising event of my life and she’s trying to make it about her leg. Like my pain meant nothing." - Cordelia; Buffy the Vampire Slayer S1Ep11.
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#520
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Re: Who is to blame for Voldemort going bad?
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And would he really have expected a wizard to do as much? I don't think Riddle's perception of his own abandonment had anything to do with "expectations" on his part. The only expectation was that the magical parent, if he truly had one, would not let death befall him/her. But you may have a point. Riddle's opinion on magic allowing a person to escape death could be interpreted as a delusional explanation as to why he was abandoned by his mother... Quote:
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![]() Look at me! Look at me! The monster inside me has become so big! Obluda, Která Nemá Své Jméno "We were the only two people in the world. And we had no names." "The Devil inside the God said, 'You are me, and I am you.'" Johan, vždýt' je to nádherné jméno
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