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  #1  
Old July 30th, 2007, 12:50 am
General_Ridley  Male.gif General_Ridley is offline
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If one werewolf has been transformed, then another must have been too...

Fenrir Greyback was very clearly transformed into his wolfish state during the battle. This was only pages after Tonks joined the battle, looking for Remus, who must also have been transformed.


At this time, during battle, we had a pair of werewolves. One was most certainfly feral, ready to attack anyone it could sink its teeth into. The other, if that first didn't happen to be Remus, may or may not have been feral depending on whether or not he had taken Wolfsbane potion. If he had, he would have been dangerous only to Death Eaters. Otherwise, he would be as dangerous as Fenrir.

Could it possibly have been Lupin that nearly attacked one of the Patil twins and was stopped by Professor Trelawney and her crystal balls? From Harry's point fo view it was obviously Fenrir, but if Fenrir was transformed, Remus must also have been, and he was already out there. Harry could have been mistaken.

By the time Lupin is discovered to be dead, It must have already been morning. Harry only spent about a half hour going over Snape's memories right after seeing them, then went to the forest, which likely didn't take too long, and then coming back wasn't much longer. By then, it was about dawn.

So I think Fenrir and Remus would have reverted to human form by the time Harry saw Snape die. If they wouldn't have, it's possible that a werewolf reverts to human form in death.

But either way, two werewolves were fully transformed and likely fully dangerous at Hogwarts that night.

Thoughts on this? Anything I've missed?


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  #2  
Old July 30th, 2007, 6:23 am
Ralphmuggle  Male.gif Ralphmuggle is offline
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Re: If one werewolf has been transformed, then another must have been too...

Quote:
Originally Posted by General_Ridley View Post
Fenrir Greyback was very clearly transformed into his wolfish state during the battle. This was only pages after Tonks joined the battle, looking for Remus, who must also have been transformed.


At this time, during battle, we had a pair of werewolves. One was most certainfly feral, ready to attack anyone it could sink its teeth into. The other, if that first didn't happen to be Remus, may or may not have been feral depending on whether or not he had taken Wolfsbane potion. If he had, he would have been dangerous only to Death Eaters. Otherwise, he would be as dangerous as Fenrir.

Could it possibly have been Lupin that nearly attacked one of the Patil twins and was stopped by Professor Trelawney and her crystal balls? From Harry's point fo view it was obviously Fenrir, but if Fenrir was transformed, Remus must also have been, and he was already out there. Harry could have been mistaken.

By the time Lupin is discovered to be dead, It must have already been morning. Harry only spent about a half hour going over Snape's memories right after seeing them, then went to the forest, which likely didn't take too long, and then coming back wasn't much longer. By then, it was about dawn.

So I think Fenrir and Remus would have reverted to human form by the time Harry saw Snape die. If they wouldn't have, it's possible that a werewolf reverts to human form in death.

But either way, two werewolves were fully transformed and likely fully dangerous at Hogwarts that night.

Thoughts on this? Anything I've missed?
Fenrir wasn't transformed. He has just been a werewolf for so long that when he attacks sometimes he behaves like he's been transformed, while in human form.

Two bodies fell from the balcony overhead as they reached the ground, and a gray blur that Harry took for an animal sped four-legged across the hall to sink its teeth into one of the fallen.

"NO!!" shrieked Hermione, and with a deafening blast from her wand, Fenrir Greyback was thrown backward from the feebly stirring body of Lavender Brown.
[DH, American Edition, p 646]

Because of the way he was running, he looked like he was transformed, but Hermione's spell didn't transform him back into human form; it blasted him past. But whenever Fenrir is described in the books, he's always described as appearing animal like in some ways. Probably because he identifies with his werewolf side.


  #3  
Old July 30th, 2007, 9:37 am
Pyrodogg  Male.gif Pyrodogg is offline
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Re: If one werewolf has been transformed, then another must have been too...

I'm with Ralphmuggle, I don't think he was transformed. He simply seems to be animal looking all the time. Also. it's mentioned earlier in the book that he is attacking people without being transformed. So this description of an attack doesn't mean that he was transformed at the time.

Also, I love how Hermione blasts him clear across the entrance hall.


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  #4  
Old July 30th, 2007, 11:50 am
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Re: If one werewolf has been transformed, then another must have been too...

Him killing outside the full moon was said by Dumbledore on the tower just before he asked why Draco Malfoy had invited him. I agree with Pyrodogg and Ralphmuggle. That's the point of biting them young and raising them to hate normal wizards isn't it? He wants to act like an animal all the time.

EDIT: we also say this in his attack on Bill.


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Old July 30th, 2007, 1:27 pm
Melonhead  Female.gif Melonhead is offline
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Re: If one werewolf has been transformed, then another must have been too...

Also even if fenir was transformed, if lupin avoided the moonlight then he wouldnt be. Also it is pictured as full moon on the back of the UK cover, it might not be accurate or even the right night but...


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Old August 17th, 2007, 9:29 am
SquiggyDralion  Female.gif SquiggyDralion is offline
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Re: If one werewolf has been transformed, then another must have been too...

I wonder if anyone else ended up in a state similar to Bill's? Perhaps he thoroughly killed everyone he attacked.


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Old August 17th, 2007, 9:39 am
Meiko  Female.gif Meiko is offline
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Re: If one werewolf has been transformed, then another must have been too...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melonhead View Post
Also even if fenir was transformed, if lupin avoided the moonlight then he wouldnt be. Also it is pictured as full moon on the back of the UK cover, it might not be accurate or even the right night but...
I'm not sure whether he was in the moonlight or not made any difference, or his condition would have been easily manageable if he stayed in a room without windows while the full-moon was out. Also, I think the full moon on the UK back cover of the book was there for dramatic effect.


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Old August 17th, 2007, 10:42 am
minervamc  Undisclosed.gif minervamc is offline
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Re: If one werewolf has been transformed, then another must have been too...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meiko View Post
I'm not sure whether he was in the moonlight or not made any difference, or his condition would have been easily manageable if he stayed in a room without windows while the full-moon was out. Also, I think the full moon on the UK back cover of the book was there for dramatic effect.
I was wondering about this point too. The cover clearly shows a full moon and since the only time we see hogwarts in the story is in the final battle you can assume that this is whaat the cover art is depicting, plus all the greenish smoke suggersts theres a war going on. If so it is a pretty stupid mistake as the story shows Greyback and Lupin are clearly not transformed.

Or if they are then I guess Lavender Brown is now a werewolf.


  #9  
Old August 17th, 2007, 10:48 am
Emperor_Gestahl  Male.gif Emperor_Gestahl is offline
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Re: If one werewolf has been transformed, then another must have been too...

if you take the book look at the back cover, the one with silverlighted Hogwarts on it, the moon certainly looks full. Now unless the guy that drew the cover completely overlooked what a full moon did (in which case he has no right to draw covers of JKR) we have a plot hole.


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  #10  
Old August 17th, 2007, 12:08 pm
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Re: If one werewolf has been transformed, then another must have been too...

Lupin was killed by Dolohov, was he not? And Aberforth actually saw him duel Dolohov, so he must have been in his human form during that duel.


  #11  
Old August 17th, 2007, 6:40 pm
tombo125  Undisclosed.gif tombo125 is offline
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Re: If one werewolf has been transformed, then another must have been too...

I agree that Fenrir was not transformed but there is another solution to this problem. We do not know when Lupin was killed, he could have been killed before the moon came out therefore he never transformed. Also his wife is an auror and they have to be skilled in potions to become an auror. She could have made the wolfsbane potion for her husband. Again, I think that he was untransformed but there are possible solutions for Lupin not transforming.


  #12  
Old August 17th, 2007, 7:04 pm
Emperor_Gestahl  Male.gif Emperor_Gestahl is offline
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Re: If one werewolf has been transformed, then another must have been too...

Wolfsbane let's him retain his mind, he'd still be a wolf.


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  #13  
Old August 17th, 2007, 7:28 pm
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Re: If one werewolf has been transformed, then another must have been too...

Quote:
Originally Posted by General_Ridley View Post
Fenrir Greyback was very clearly transformed into his wolfish state during the battle. This was only pages after Tonks joined the battle, looking for Remus, who must also have been transformed.
I figure Remus would make sure to always have wolfsbane potion at his disposal. Especially after marrying and being a father. Apart from that, I dont think Greyback was transformed.


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Old August 17th, 2007, 7:56 pm
sarahlvinpotter  Female.gif sarahlvinpotter is offline
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Re: If one werewolf has been transformed, then another must have been too...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronjalina View Post
I figure Remus would make sure to always have wolfsbane potion at his disposal. Especially after marrying and being a father. Apart from that, I dont think Greyback was transformed.
I agree with this, theres no way remus would not carry the wolfsbane potion with him now he has a new wife an new born son. Also, greyback has always being described as animal like transformed or not, he doesnt care when he bites because he doesnt care if he kills a person or transforms a person. So, he probably wasnt transformed.


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Old August 17th, 2007, 10:56 pm
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Re: If one werewolf has been transformed, then another must have been too...

Fenrir always seems wolfy, just look at what he did to Bill.


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Old August 17th, 2007, 11:28 pm
marspeach  Female.gif marspeach is offline
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Re: If one werewolf has been transformed, then another must have been too...

Sorry, Fenrir was NOT transformed. How would Harry have recognized that it was him, anyway, if he had been? He would have just said "a werewolf" or something like that. He was always wild and savage. He was going to attach Lavender just like he attacked Bill and scarred him in book 6.


  #17  
Old August 19th, 2007, 7:27 am
Phane00  Undisclosed.gif Phane00 is offline
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Re: If one werewolf has been transformed, then another must have been too...

Quote:
Originally Posted by marspeach View Post
Sorry, Fenrir was NOT transformed. How would Harry have recognized that it was him, anyway, if he had been? He would have just said "a werewolf" or something like that. He was always wild and savage. He was going to attach Lavender just like he attacked Bill and scarred him in book 6.
Does anyone think that Lavender might have gotten contaminated like Bill? Maybe even enough that she might have to endure a partial transformation at the night of a full moon. It would make things interesting.


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  #18  
Old August 19th, 2007, 7:37 am
pandabear18788  Female.gif pandabear18788 is offline
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Re: If one werewolf has been transformed, then another must have been too...

I'm with everyone else -- nowhere in the text does it explicitly say that Fenrir was actually transforms. It might seem like it as the only real description of him during the battle is when he is about to attack Lavender, but it still isn't really stated that he was transformed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voldemorts8thHorcrux View Post
Fenrir always seems wolfy, just look at what he did to Bill.
Precisely. When Harry saw him on the tower in HBP before Dumbledore was killed, he described Fenrir as having whiskers. So simply through that it is quite obvious that Greyback was more wolf than man, unlike Lupin who was clearly far more man than wolf.


  #19  
Old August 19th, 2007, 7:48 am
Leon_Lionheart  Male.gif Leon_Lionheart is offline
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Re: If one werewolf has been transformed, then another must have been too...

I doubt Jo would have neglected to mention the full moon if the full moon were there. With Fenrir and Lupin present, not to mention the fact that it was midnight when the battle began...


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  #20  
Old August 19th, 2007, 8:07 am
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Re: If one werewolf has been transformed, then another must have been too...

Fenrir was not transformed. HHad he been he would have completely out of control attacking death eaters as easily as defenders and Voldemort would not take that risk. He was bad enough in human form and a perfect (plus disposable) terror weapon to having running amongst the defenders.


 
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