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Going Out with a Bang (2/4/08)



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  #1  
Old February 5th, 2008, 6:18 pm
blaqlives  Female.gif blaqlives is offline
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Going Out with a Bang (2/4/08)

Discussion of The Burrow article Going Out with a Bang by hpboy13.



Last edited by blaqlives; February 5th, 2008 at 6:25 pm.
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  #2  
Old February 5th, 2008, 9:00 pm
Eriskay  Undisclosed.gif Eriskay is offline
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Re: Going Out with a Bang (2/4/08)

Overall, I agree with you, but on a few points I don't. Just a few though.

First of all, you made this reference to Titanic which made it look like you don't think that Harry Potter works with a more mature audience. I just wanted to point this out, although I'm pretty much convinced that this was not what you meant. So I disagree with that and I think you do, too.

I try to look at the movies and the books as two different things. I really do. But I just can't in the end, I want everything to be in! So when I go to see a movie for the first time I'm always disappointed. The next time and the time after that, I enjoy them more no matter which movie I'm talking about because I start to appreciate the good things and the funny additions that actually go with canon. After that, I always have very mixed feelings when watching the movies again. I start to realise that I know big parts by heart and comment on every scene - bad scene, good line, awful joke, NOT canon, show Harry again! - and so on. So I love watching them and after many times I can finally start looking at them as different from the books. Sort of like fanfiction, although this is more like WBfiction. Like some sort of-canonlike canon that really isn't canon.

Because of this, I agree with you that a lot of things really should be in the movies. The first time I see DH and HBP I'll hate them because of what got cut. In the end though, I'll like watching them anyhow. So on the long-term, I just want these movies to be really good movies. This means that people who don't read the books and watch the movies should be able to understand certain things, like the prophecy, so they have to include lots of stuff. I think that they just can't get everything. They certainly think that they can't at any rate. Including everything won't be a good two and a half hour movie or even a four hour movie. What I'd really like is a tv series, prefferably made by BBC. One season per book. I can dream, can't I?

So, in conclusion, I mostly agree with you and I want everything to be in the movies, too, but I don't think that will lead to a good 2 or 3 hour movie. Don't ask me to choose what they should cut though! That's the sort of thing I'll be able to think about after I've actually seen the movie. I fear that they'll cut out way too much from DH, I think they will. I'll be crying for lots of different resons when I see that movie. It'll be the end of the movies, important things will have been cut, people will die and Dan will have blue eyes that everyone refers to as Lily's. I'll bring a napkin, or perhaps ten napkins. I'll be needing them.


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Old February 5th, 2008, 9:51 pm
hpboy13  Male.gif hpboy13 is offline
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Re: Going Out with a Bang (2/4/08)

Eriskay, you misunderstood the Titanic thing. Titanic was intended for a mature audience - HP isn't. They're not children's books, they're very deep, and all, btu most people still think of them as children's movies. That's why a five-hour film isn't realistic, whereas four hours was realistic for Titanic.

I'm not like you: once I've formed an opinion, Snape will start giving out sweets before I change it. I hated PoA from the get-go, I was hissing at GoF before the theater lights came on, and I was sure OotP would be an awesome movie before I even saw it (spoilers! yes, I know, shame on me...). I don't learn to love things, I either love them or hate them. I have faith in David Yates that HBP will be good, but I want DH to bring that tear to my eye that SS does, where I can say "Wow, they included that line, word-perfect!"

Anyway, thanks for the comments! It looks like it's fallen on me to revive Mugglenet's editorials, but I gladly accept the responsibility! Let's see if this editorial is a bit mroe popular than my last one!


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Old February 6th, 2008, 1:21 pm
Sunfish McCaul  Male.gif Sunfish McCaul is offline
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Re: Going Out with a Bang (2/4/08)

I'm not sure that a literal adaptation is the main criteria for making a good Harry Potter film. The first two films, for instance, have been criticized for being overliteral.
Personally, I don't care how faithful a Harry Potter film is to the book, so long as they capture the spirit of the books and don't betray the integrity of the characters. I think each of the films has done this well, though Prisoner of Azkaban did it best and Order of the Phoenix wasn't terribly coherent.
I'm not sure that Deathly Hallows should be split into two films- I don't know if there are two films worth of material. More like a film and a half, which is an awkward place to be.
I'm not sure what solution would be advisible. I think perhaps a film that is around three hours in length helmed by an extremely artistic and creative director- Nicolas Roeg, for instance. It's possible to tell this story that way, but it would result in a very abstract film (which isn't a bad thing) and many irrate fans.


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Old February 6th, 2008, 10:09 pm
gargamel1029  Undisclosed.gif gargamel1029 is offline
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Re: Going Out with a Bang (2/4/08)

First of all, while I think you have some good points, let's remember that we're talking about two completely different entertainment mediums. First, a film can do a lot more in a shorter time frame than a book (a picture is worth a thousand words). Second, several of the scenes/concepts of Deathly Hallows are simply not translatable to a film, or would be confusing or boring to an audience that has not read the books. Make no mistake, these non-fan people count for more in the eyes of the filmmakers than the obsessive HP fan. They have to, because they want the largest number of people to see the film ($$$), and let's face it, there are more people who are not HP fans than there are the rest of us. Having said that....

I think that, in order to do justice to the story of Deathly Hallows, two films are almost a necessity. Now to determine just how that might be possible, with an eye toward maintaining the highest level of consistency (but not necessarily strict derivation) with the book.

In order to have some form of resolution to the plot of part one (at least temporarily), we must first decide where to split DH. This is tougher than it seems, because there are only a few points in the book where things calm down and sort themselves out enough to qualify. These are: (1) When Ron leaves Harry and Hermione; (2) just after Ron's return; (3) immediately after the trio escape from Xenophilius Lovegood's house; (4) after the escape form Malfoy Manor; and finally, (5) just after the escape from Gringotts. Let's look at these one by one.

(1) The scene where Ron leaves Harry and Hermione in the woods is not the best choice of stopping point for several reasons. First, it is too early in the story, and would leave far too much to be crammed into the second part; second, it would end the first part on a down note, not something guaranteed to get those all-important non-fan people back to the theater for part 2. Third, practically none of the main plot has been resolved at this point. No new horcruxes destroyed, no new major revelations revealed. Sure some characters are dead, but not much else. Taking these things into account, we mus discard this as a dividing point for DH.

(2) The scenes after Ron's return are at first glance a better choice than the one where he leaves. We have by this time some plot resolution (a destroyed horcrux, more information about Dumbledore, and a thrilling escape scene in Godrics Hollow), some new mysteries (just whose Patronus was that doe, anyway?), and a much happier note to close part one on. But, and yes there must be a but, when we examine all that follows these scenes, we cannot help but notice that there is a HUGE amount of story remaining, and only so much time to tell it in. So, while a better choice than the first, this one still leaves much to be desired.

(4) After the escape from Malfoy Manor, there is a lull in the story, allowing readers to catch their breath after one of the most nail-biting and heart-breaking scenes in all of Harry Potter. This would seem like a good place to split DH, but there are some compelling reasons to not stop here. At this point, there is arguably more plot resolved than unresolved, with just one remaining mystery worth mentioning: the identity of the final horcrux. I think that to stop the first part here would both cram too much into part one, again leave the audience on a down note, and leave too little for the final film (yes I said it). So we must continue our search for a splitting point.

(5) The reason for rejecting this as a stopping point should be evident, but, in case it is not: By this point in DH, the book is almost finished, there would be not enough story left to stand on its own in part two.

(3) Those of you paying attention have by now no doubt noticed that I saved this one for last. My reason is simple: this is the best place, from a story perspective, to split DH. Why? Because at this point, we have the plot resolution from (2), along with more information about the active hunting for Harry and the others that is in progress; also, the Deathly Hallows have been identified; and (this is the best part), the first part can end on a cliffhanger, when Harry says Voldemort's name and the trio get captured. I would love to see that as the ending.

I also think that opening the second part with a large set-piece action scene will do a nice job of setting the pace for the rest of the film. But that's just my opinion.


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Old February 7th, 2008, 12:22 am
lmk  Female.gif lmk is offline
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Re: Going Out with a Bang (2/4/08)

Unlike others who have already posted replies to this thread, I don't think the final Harry Potter movie needs to be broken into two separate installments. The fifth book in the series, Harry Potter and the Order of the Pheonix, was the longest of all the books and it translated well enough into a single film. However, I do think that the Deathly Hallows movie could be longer than some of the more recent cinematic Harry Potter installments. Titanic was 194 minutes long (not 4 hours long - 240 minutes - as the author of this editorial would have us believe), which was, in my opinion, an acceptable length of time to sit in one place without requiring an intermission for a comfort break.

I think there are plenty of things that could be cut from the seventh book without sacrificing the integrity of the proposed movie. As someone has already pointed out, the movies and the books are two very different and very separate entities. Not everyone who goes to see the movies has read the books and therefore doesn't need (or possibly even want) to know all of the details contained within their many pages.

In the end, it is up to the filmakers (and possibly J. K. Rowling) to decide how to handle the final movie.

One other random thought I've had concerns a comment made by the author of this editorial made regarding the fact that it is his or her opinion that the Harry Potter movies are not intended for a mature audience. While the first three movies were rated "PG" and were, in my opinion, suitable for all but very young children to view, the last two movies (and presumably the sixth and seventh movies as well) have been rated "PG-13". They are not intended for people younger than aged 13 to view - and even then, it is suggested that an adult accompany the majority of teens to see the movie. These movies are not intended for immature viewers.


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Old February 7th, 2008, 5:33 am
hpboy13  Male.gif hpboy13 is offline
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Re: Going Out with a Bang (2/4/08)

gargamel1029, I disagree about ending it after Xeno's house. First off, yes, a cliffhanger is always nice. However, we must look at it in the real world. Unless we want to wait three years for this, I doubt the movie will be released simultaneously. There won't necessarily be 18 months between them, but at leats a few months to be sure. The public doesn't want to be left hanging that long withotu some sort of conclusion. Cliffhangers are best left for TV shows and fanfics. Also, it'll be introducing a new concept (*** deathly hallows) right before the end - what purpose does that serve? To have the audience forget it? Also, between the whole Malfoy Manor episode, Gringotts, and the Final Battle, there is just way too much to fit into the second part.

lmk, I think you have the definition of PG13 a bit skewered. It means that parents are strongly advised to accompany children under thirteen, but everyone can go with impunity, and most certainly teenagers. PG-13 movies are often just fine for tweens to watch, it'll have at worst some swearing and blurred out images of naked bodies for five seconds. GoF and OotP were rated PG13 because they have "fantasy violence" and woudl apparently scare kids - thank the soccer moms for that one. Notice how few G-rated movies are coming out recently? Any little thing and they up the rating.

Anyway, sorry if I made Titanic out to be a bit longer - I just knew it was somewhere over 3 hours and rounded up. And maybe you can sit comfortably without comfort breaks that long, but the movie theaters exist to sell the large drinks to accompany the overpriced popcorn, so the drinkers and the kids most certainly won't sit through something that long comfortably. You say that OotP transitioned "well enough" into a film. Yes, it did just that. However, neither the fans, nor probably the filmmakers, want it to be "well enough", they want it to be "amazingly".


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Old February 7th, 2008, 9:19 am
The_Alchemist  Female.gif The_Alchemist is offline
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Re: Going Out with a Bang (2/4/08)

If we split the films in two then I say make the escape from Malfoy Manor as the climax to the first film. However, I'd be inclined to keep it as one film. There is plenty that can be cut (most of that tedious camping trip for starters, and quite a bit of the wedding preparation. You could probably miss out a lot of the Godrics Hollow stuff too).


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Old February 7th, 2008, 5:32 pm
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Re: Going Out with a Bang (2/4/08)

Quote:
originally posted by hpboy13
gargamel1029, I disagree about ending it after Xeno's house. First off, yes, a cliffhanger is always nice. However, we must look at it in the real world. Unless we want to wait three years for this, I doubt the movie will be released simultaneously. There won't necessarily be 18 months between them, but at leats a few months to be sure. The public doesn't want to be left hanging that long withotu some sort of conclusion.
As long as audiences don't have to wait more then a year, I don't see a problem with ending on a cliffhanger. I'll give you some real world examples: The Two Towers ended with a cryptic message from Gollum that made audiences curious. The Empire Strikes Back ended with Lando and Chewbacca going to search for Han (and people did have to wait 3 years for that one). Dead Man's Chest ended with Jack dead and Barbossa alive (and if that wasn't a cliffhanger, I don't know what was). If the cliffhanger is good, people will come back.

However, I've got a question about splitting the movies that's been bothering me for awhile now: What are they going to call the second one? Deathly Hallows part 2 sounds lame to me.


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Old February 7th, 2008, 10:29 pm
Twycross  Male.gif Twycross is offline
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Re: Going Out with a Bang (2/4/08)

I agree with everything you said in this. PoA was utter garbage. GoF is more excruciating each time I see it. OotP went to far (Leaving out neville's parents was unforgiveable). The seventh movie's only chance will be a two part film. Any thing else wont work. of course I'll keep going to see the film's because I need to have seen them before I can complain, but I've pretty much given up hope that the rest will be any good. And as for PS, the opening scenes were all wrong, leaving out Vernon's day and most of the dumbledore McGonnagal dialogue was a mistake. The opening doesn't suck you in like it should.


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Old February 9th, 2008, 6:58 am
hpboy13  Male.gif hpboy13 is offline
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Re: Going Out with a Bang (2/4/08)

Twycross, I'm glad you agree! Ever sicne David Yates returned, I've had hope for hte films, but I realized that due to time constraints even he can't make a miracle. So now this is my one last hope.

dweaselqueen, a cliffhanger works, but it's better not to introduce a new concept just as the film ends - the audience will forget it. As far as I know, none of the movies you mentioned did. As for the naming, that can be worked around - call the first one "Horcrux Hunt" and the second "Deathly Hallows" or something like that. I'm sure WB will think of something.


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Old February 16th, 2008, 12:29 am
Robbie Goshawk  Undisclosed.gif Robbie Goshawk is offline
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Re: Going Out with a Bang (2/4/08)

Just as an aside. I don't really think they'll include the deathly hallows, as for the sake of a movie they really have nothin to do with Harry's main "movie" storyline. So as much as I'd LOVE to see Luna's bedroom I don't think they'll have it in there


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Old March 13th, 2008, 2:07 am
hpboy13  Male.gif hpboy13 is offline
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Re: Going Out with a Bang (2/4/08)

I WAS RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BOO-YAH!!!!!!!!!!
AND David Yates gets to direct! This just made my month!!! PARTY!!!


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