Questions about the Marauders Map

[Voldemorts8thHorcrux]

Originally Posted by Tenshi

I doubt it was possible for him to trick the map in that way. The map even revealed people under Polyjuice Potion and Animagi. If the creators were able to manipulate the map that they aren't shown, so why didn't Pettigrew do it?

Pettigrew wasn't as good with magic, but I think that Sirius may have discovered some other secret passages afterwards that weren't shown onthe map. However, it seems way more likely that Harry or the twins just weren't watching it, Harry usually didn't use it when he didn't need to sneak around or be a lookout

[speedy]

on a separate note how come lupin didn't notice 2 harry's and hermione's when he said he was studying the map

[The_Green_Woods]

Originally Posted by speedy

on a separate note how come lupin didn't notice 2 harry's and hermione's when he said he was studying the map

That's a great question.

I think that would be because he would have been intently seeing the Harry and Hermione who were in the shack, and would not have noticed the other pair. He should have actually, because it was after curfew.

[Lucybird]

Originally Posted by speedy

on a separate note how come lupin didn't notice 2 harry's and hermione's when he said he was studying the map

Maybe because one pair was fairly still and hiding the ones moving were the ones that attracted his attention. Or maybe he did see both but guessed it had something to do with the time turner

[PrivetHedge]

Originally Posted by speedy

on a separate note how come lupin didn't notice 2 harry's and hermione's when he said he was studying the map

Well, he said something about having suspected the trio would visit Hagrid before Buckbeak's scheduled execution. I suspect he looked at Hagrid's hut (on the map) first, found the trio there, and didn't look any further. We can also allow some wiggle room because we don't know how the map folds.

Which leads to the question - Why didn't he notice Peter Pettigrew on the map as being in Hagrid's as well? Lupin would have come out then, instead of waiting until Sirius appeared and dragged Ron and Scabbers (Peter) into the Willow passage.

My guess is Lupin, being one of the creators of the map, knew a spell to sound an alarm the moment a given name appeared on the map. That way, he wouldn't have to watch every second. He had no reason to set a search for "Peter Pettigrew", but he would have set an alarm for when "Sirius Black" appeared.

[Tenshi]

Originally Posted by PrivetHedge

Well, he said something about having suspected the trio would visit Hagrid before Buckbeak's scheduled execution. I suspect he looked at Hagrid's hut (on the map) first, found the trio there, and didn't look any further. We can also allow some wiggle room because we don't know how the map folds.

No he said that he watched them crossing the ground to go to Hagrid and twenty minutes later they left it and were accompanied by someone else.

But that doesn't explain why he didn't see Peter in the hut. Yes.

Originally Posted by Tenshi

No he said that he watched them crossing the ground to go to Hagrid and twenty minutes later they left it and were accompanied by someone else.

But that doesn't explain why he didn't see Peter in the hut. Yes.

Maybe he did. Maybe he was just plotting a way to corner him into the Shriking Shack with Sirius.

[Tenshi]

Originally Posted by WendyPotter

Maybe he did. Maybe he was just plotting a way to corner him into the Shriking Shack with Sirius.

His exact words were:

I watched you cross the grounds and enter Hagrid's hut. Twenty minutes later, you left Hagrid, and set off back towards the castle. But you were now accompanied by someone else

If he saw him in the hut already wouldn't he say that?

[cardinalguy]

Originally Posted by Tenshi

His exact words were:



If he saw him in the hut already wouldn't he say that?

Is it possible that the hut's interior isn't on the map? He could watch them go in Hagrid's hut, but wouldn't see them inside. If so, then it would explain Pettigrew's presence, as he would know he could hide there, and Hagrid was too preoccupied with Buckbeak's hearing to pay attention to a rat in his hut.

Originally Posted by cardinalguy

Is it possible that the hut's interior isn't on the map? He could watch them go in Hagrid's hut, but wouldn't see them inside. If so, then it would explain Pettigrew's presence, as he would know he could hide there, and Hagrid was too preoccupied with Buckbeak's hearing to pay attention to a rat in his hut.

That would be a good explanation...but it is said that Dumbledore is seen pacing in his office...so why wouldn't the same thing happen in the hut?

[cardinalguy]

Originally Posted by WendyPotter

That would be a good explanation...but it is said that Dumbledore is seen pacing in his office...so why wouldn't the same thing happen in the hut?

Privacy of staff living quarters. We see Dumbledore's office, but we don't see his bedroom (at least, I assume he doesn't sleep in his office), leaving open the possibility that it was unplotted (at least in terms of the map). If they couldn't get to the staff's private quarters (for whatever reasons), the Marauders would have liked and respected Hagrid enough to offer him the same courtesy as the other staff.

[FleurduJardin]

Originally Posted by Tenshi

His exact words were:



If he saw him in the hut already wouldn't he say that?

Good catch.

Even if Lupin hadn't seen Pettigrew at Hagrid's (I don't quite buy the "privacy" thing because they were in Hagrid's living-room, or at least the part of his cabin serving that purpose), PP should have appeared under his own name once they were out of the hut.

I think you may have found yet another inconsistency there, along with why Lupin didn't see 2 Harrys and 2 Hermiones. Or maybe the map doesn't show people who are out of their "real time"?

[Tenshi]

Originally Posted by FleurduJardin

Good catch.

Even if Lupin hadn't seen Pettigrew at Hagrid's (I don't quite buy the "privacy" thing because they were in Hagrid's living-room, or at least the part of his cabin serving that purpose), PP should have appeared under his own name once they were out of the hut.

I think you may have found yet another inconsistency there, along with why Lupin didn't see 2 Harrys and 2 Hermiones. Or maybe the map doesn't show people who are out of their "real time"?

I doubt that the Marauders bothered about privacy. Pretty much the whole map thing is "Big Brother" style.

Peter always appeared under his real name, everyone who disguised themselves as another person appeared under their real name.

Yeah, I believe that he only saw the two that where in his original timeline.

[FleurduJardin]

Originally Posted by Tenshi

I doubt that the Marauders bothered about privacy. Pretty much the whole map thing is "Big Brother" style.

Peter always appeared under his real name, everyone who disguised themselves as another person appeared under their real name.

Yes, as we saw with Barty Crouch the Younger masquerading as Moody.

Then the question stands, why didn't Remus spot Pettigrew when he saw the Trio with "someone else" on the grounds?

[Tenshi]

Book Mistake IMO.

[Peverell_bro]

I think it was because Harry didn't use it very often. I know if it was me I would have had that thing and the invisibility cloak with me at all times. With so many little dots on the map, it would have been easy to miss Sirius' name if he was just glancing at it every so often.

[FleurduJardin]

Originally Posted by Tenshi

Book Mistake IMO.

One of those many inconsistencies and contradictions. One only has to see the length of the thread about that matter to see how numerous they are. Funny thing is, it should have struck me before, the fact that Lupin should have seen Pettigrew on the map.

Originally Posted by Peverell_bro

I think it was because Harry didn't use it very often. I know if it was me I would have had that thing and the invisibility cloak with me at all times. With so many little dots on the map, it would have been easy to miss Sirius' name if he was just glancing at it every so often.

As far as Sirius is concerned, I agree. Harry just didn't happen to look at the map when Sirius was on Hogwarts grounds, which wasn't all that often. Harry did see "Padfoot" once with Crookshanks, but he wasn't looking at the map then. Nor when Sirius came into the Gryffindor Common Room to try and kill Wormtail. That still doesn't explain why Remus, who was watching the map carefully to follow events, didn't spot Pettigrew. The name should have jumped out at him. Ergo, book mistake.

[FurryDice]

Originally Posted by FleurduJardin

Then the question stands, why didn't Remus spot Pettigrew when he saw the Trio with "someone else" on the grounds?

I believe Wormtail was the "someone else" Remus saw with the Trio, the reason he then believed Sirius innocent and dashed to the Shrieking Shack.

Originally Posted by FleurduJardin

One of those many inconsistencies and contradictions. One only has to see the length of the thread about that matter to see how numerous they are. Funny thing is, it should have struck me before, the fact that Lupin should have seen Pettigrew on the map.

Didn't Wormtail make his getaway to Hagrid's hut before Remus confiscated the map? Hagrids' hut doesn't seem to be included on the map. (As Wormtail would have known, when choosing a hideout.

[FleurduJardin]

Originally Posted by FurryDice

I believe Wormtail was the "someone else" Remus saw with the Trio, the reason he then believed Sirius innocent and dashed to the Shrieking Shack.

That's not how I remember it happened. He dashed to the Shack to save the Trio against Sirius. He did not know the "someone else" was Pettigrew, or he would have said so - and there wouldn't have been that drawn-out talk with Sirius full of things incomprehensible to the Trio (to draw out the suspense before we finally learn that Sirius is actually a good guy).

About the Map and PP, though - why, for that matter, didn't Snape see Pettigrew either when he looked at the map that Remus had left on his desk without blanking it out?

Didn't Wormtail make his getaway to Hagrid's hut before Remus confiscated the map? Hagrids' hut doesn't seem to be included on the map. (As Wormtail would have known, when choosing a hideout.

Yes, it's been mentioned earlier. This is the first I heard that Hagrid's hut isn't included on the map. Why wouldn't it be? It's situated on Hogwarts grounds, isn't it? Could this be yet another "contradiction and inconsistency"?

[MmeBergerac]

That's not how I remember it happened. He dashed to the Shack to save the Trio against Sirius. He did not know the "someone else" was Pettigrew, or he would have said so - and there wouldn't have been that drawn-out talk with Sirius full of things incomprehensible to the Trio (to draw out the suspense before we finally learn that Sirius is actually a good guy).

I think that Wormtail was the someone else, but Lupin was in that moment trying to explain the Trio how things had been that night, without making it messier than it already was.

About the Map and PP, though - why, for that matter, didn't Snape see Pettigrew either when he looked at the map that Remus had left on his desk without blanking it out?

Well, Snape wasn't looking for Pettigrew, but for Lupin. I suppose he saw Lupin, he saw Harry and then he saw Sirius... and didn't look farther. I bet that as soon as he saw "Sirius Black" he started to run towards the Whomping Willow clearing his throat for the killing curse he was longing to use on him... In those circumstances, who stops to see whether any dead man is taking a stroll around the grounds?