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The Silver Doe and the Eye of Snape



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  #1  
Old February 18th, 2008, 8:15 pm
blaqlives  Female.gif blaqlives is offline
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The Silver Doe and the Eye of Snape

Discussion of the editorial The Silver Doe and the Eye of Snape by Daniela Teo.

On a related note, Happy Birthday Daniela! We're glad to have you writing for us again


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  #2  
Old February 18th, 2008, 11:22 pm
mugglepants  Undisclosed.gif mugglepants is offline
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Re: The Silver Doe and the Eye of Snape

Wow, what a beautiful editorial. It was right on spot. You really gave Snape some of the justice he derserves.

Quote:
We know that Harry’s Patronus is a stag, his father’s Animagus shape, and Patronuses in general in Harry Potter seem to be projections of the soul. Dumbledore told Harry that those we love never leave us, and that Harry’s father was inside Harry, showing himself through his Patronus. That means that an image of Lily’s soul, a bit like an imprint that is a ghost in Potterverse, is inside Snape, and when he produced his Patronus, Harry actually sensed the presence of his mother, in a powerful way, because he actually saw a projection of her soul, a most faithful recording of it.
That makes so much sense. I remember first reading this chapter, and I could remember feeling the power of the situation. The familiar force was probably felt by Harry. But I like the idea that Lily was living inside Snape.

Quote:
Snape met Lily again more intensely this time than others when he produced his Patronus. Having the silver doe be recognized as Lily by her son must have added more substance to the ethereal figure of the Patronus, must have made Lily’s soul feel more present. By watching Harry watch the silver doe, in a way the spying Snape was watching Lily as he never could again, as if she had truly materialized in front of Harry.
Awwwwwwwww. That's so touching.


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  #3  
Old February 19th, 2008, 8:19 am
Eriskay  Undisclosed.gif Eriskay is offline
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Re: The Silver Doe and the Eye of Snape

Right. I should know better than reading this in school (yes, I'm in class. Don't look at me like that, I'm done with my assignment and I've got time left), but I did anyway. Right now I'm trying to supress my urge to cry. This was a beautiful essay! I'd really like to tell you what parts I agree with and not, but I can't right now. It turns out that I haven't entirely made up my mind about Snape yet. Before DH I was convinced that he was evil (which led to me losing my bet and buying ice cream for a couple of friends.), so I've been dealing with accepting the truth and kind of embracing the truth. Not so easy, but I'm trying.

I'm not sure how much Snape understood or respected or liked Harry. I'll reread and reread and think and talk to people and then, in an age or so, I might know what I think about that. Perhaps. I think you're right about Snape just intending to go rescue Harry when Ron showed up, though.

Well. I wish I had some smart thing to point our or had my mind made up so I could actually give you some interesting feedback on this. I think that when I've made up my mind, my conclusion will be something like some of your thoughts here. I think. Anyhow, this essay explores Snape's feelings in a way i didn't try to look at it before.

Right. I'm trying to end this comment in some way, but I just run out of time so I can't do that today. Maybe some other day I'll have lots of time...


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  #4  
Old February 19th, 2008, 5:01 pm
lifter57  Undisclosed.gif lifter57 is offline
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Re: The Silver Doe and the Eye of Snape

Have not finished reading this editorial - I am enjoying your thought processes and ideas but had to stop and write as you have called 'Slytherins' cowards.

Snape was a great Slytherin and definitely no coward - I am not a fan of the Slytherins but they are not cowards - more 'Oppotunists' and who do not mind retreating from a losing situation to fight at a more opportune time (ie, one suited to them winning.)

This is not cowardice - slimy and underhanded and weak of backbone but not cowards


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  #5  
Old February 19th, 2008, 5:12 pm
Kgaladriel  Female.gif Kgaladriel is offline
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Re: The Silver Doe and the Eye of Snape

Dear Daniela,

so great to read another of your excellent editorials!
Wonderful thoughts and heart warming moments to say goodbye to the HP Series and to Snape in particular.

The connections you made between seemingly unrelated events and dialogue parts shed a new light on DH and gave it if possible more emotional depth.

Thank you!

Karima


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  #6  
Old February 19th, 2008, 5:15 pm
lifter57  Undisclosed.gif lifter57 is offline
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Re: The Silver Doe and the Eye of Snape

have finished reading it and it is well done - diving into reading between the lines and adding (for me) some here to for ideas and extensions I had not conceived for myself - and thanks for that


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  #7  
Old February 19th, 2008, 10:46 pm
beston  Undisclosed.gif beston is offline
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Re: The Silver Doe and the Eye of Snape

I've got to add a couple of things to this nice psychological explication you've done of Snape's motives and feelings. Just minor additions:

The final moment between Snape and Harry before Harry dies is freighted with some of the same stuff you're discussing. Snape spends his last few staring into Harry's eyes, which we know (and we've heard Dumbledore pointing out to Snape) are the main feature that remind Snape of Lily. Thus we get that cliched "let me have one last look at you before I die" moment, but with a twist: Snape is seeing Lily for a last time through Harry. It happens quick in the text, but I think it's definitely there, and it's the kind of symbolic sentimentality that seems to rule Snape's inner life.

Another comment: when we see - through the Pensieve - Snape snap at the portrait not to use the word "Mudblood", we're not seeing a simple softening of his attitude. We're actually seeing a direct reflection of HIS WORST MEMORY, which was not of being tortured and made fun of by James, but instead, of lashing out at Lily, calling her "Mudblood". I think the remorse he felt over having insulted her in that way was second only to the remorse he felt over having been an unwitting party to her murder. When he tells the old Headmaster not to call Hermione a "Mudblood", he hasn't learned to like Hermione any more than he ever had. He'd probably be delighted to hear her called an insufferable know-it-all or have her buck teeth made fun of. But he won't abide "Mudblood" (nor has he ever used the term in any of the books) for personal reasons.

Anyway, I enjoyed the editorial. - Beston


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  #8  
Old February 20th, 2008, 2:45 am
inkling7  Female.gif inkling7 is offline
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Re: The Silver Doe and the Eye of Snape

I too enjoyed the editorial and always thought that there was more to Snape than meets the eye and it turns out I was right. Yes I think Ron did get an impression of Snape (though he didn't realise it) who was about to go to Harry's aid when he didn't surface. Ron unwittingly stopped Snape from revealing himself which might have been a good thing seeing they were caught by Voldemort's lackeys later.


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  #9  
Old February 21st, 2008, 9:01 pm
Chas  Male.gif Chas is offline
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Re: The Silver Doe and the Eye of Snape

Thank you, Daniela, for a most insightful editorial.

I'm a "guy," and Jo is a sensitive, insightful lady. Sometimes I just barge through chapters and miss the complex emotions she so beautifully presents. It takes someone like you to elaborate on them as you did, so that I can clearly see how profound they are and more fully appreciate them. (Perhaps sometimes I have the emotional depth of a teaspoon.... ) Now, thanks to you, I have enjoyed another opportunity to recognize the wonderful work that Jo did. Nice job!


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  #10  
Old February 22nd, 2008, 10:07 am
MAGICicalMUggle  Male.gif MAGICicalMUggle is offline
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Re: The Silver Doe and the Eye of Snape

I was amazed by this editorial not only because it was very insightful but also emotional, I always wondered what Snape was thinking when seeing Harry in the forest...And the Silver Doe/Lily explanation was beautiful and it made alot of sense to me about Snapes true character and gives insight on what Harry and Snape might have felt when meeting each other in the eyes of Lilys soul!....I do think also that Snape was getting ready to jump in the water after Harry which ment that he worried about Harry....I believe that Snape was a changed man towards the end and i guess you proved it!


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Trio walks in and informs Snape and Mcgonagall about the WB's evil plan to push the Half-Blood Prince to july 17, 2009.......



Mcgonagall:Do you think it will work Severus?
Snape: Of course it will....The WB muggles will think this necklace is worth millions of dollars and they will grab it, Then the spell i casted will work and they will all turn into........
Mcgonagall:A bunch of babbling, bumbling band of baboons!....Now Hurry up and package it already!...Serves them right!.
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  #11  
Old February 22nd, 2008, 6:05 pm
Shewoman  Female.gif Shewoman is offline
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Re: The Silver Doe and the Eye of Snape

Good to hear from you again, Daniela--especially on this subject!


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WHY DUMBLEDORE TRUSTED SNAPE: PoA 204-5, 285, 361; GoF 588, 590-91; 709-10; OotP 363, 841-3; HBP 549 (American hardbacks). It's not because he said he was remorseful, it's what he did about it.
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  #12  
Old March 16th, 2008, 7:47 am
hpboy13  Male.gif hpboy13 is offline
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Re: The Silver Doe and the Eye of Snape

That was absolutely beautiful - you actually had me tearing up (okay, I'm an overemotional freak, but still...). I'll admit, I never thought of lookign at that scene from Snape's perspective. But I'd like to add some perspective on his last line. Yes, it was him having one last look at Lily. But in my view, it was also his finally accepting that Harry was Lily's son, not James's.

P.S. Eriskay, I have the EXACT same problem - every CompSci class I'm drawn to Mugglenet, but force myself to look at something less engrossing like a pokemon site or whatever, because Mugglenet editorials are nto something that can be quickly done in fifteen minutes. Oh, and I also thought Snape was evil beforehand, and am now having my butt handed to me by fans across the HP universe (and also about the Harry-is-a-Horcrux deal; maybe now people will understand why I gloat on the few occasions I'm right). But I did call that Snape loved Lily after OotP - the worst memory was just a dead giveaway in my opinion.


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  #13  
Old May 2nd, 2008, 4:07 pm
Lairy_Fights  Undisclosed.gif Lairy_Fights is offline
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Re: The Silver Doe and the Eye of Snape

I thought this was a beautifully written essay and I enjoyed reading it. My only question is, do we know that a Patronus can be used as a sort of remote lens? It makes perfect sense in terms of your essay, but I just can't remember any other time when a Patronus was used for anything other than to send a message (kind of like a speaking telegram) or to ward off a dementor. To me, it makes more sense that the Patronus was given the instruction, which it followed, and maybe Snape had left Hogwarts and apparated to where his doe went as a backup. Either way, however, wouldn't detract from the emotion of your piece.


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  #14  
Old May 8th, 2009, 10:50 pm
icelands  Undisclosed.gif icelands is offline
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Re: The Silver Doe and the Eye of Snape

"Snape made snide remarks about Tonks’ Patronus: “And incidentally [. . .], I was interested to see your new Patronus. [. . .] I think you were better off with the old one. The new one looks weak” (HBP 160). Rowling made “the malice in his voice unmistakable.” Instead of identifying with Tonks, Snape chose instead to deride. He must have seen Lily as more impressive a person to love than Lupin. This competitiveness makes his true love look calculating. And something that should have kept him silent about the merits of Tonks’ love as compared to his own is that Snape sacrificed his love to his ambition for power when he had the choice."



I disagree (respectfully). I think that he was so nasty about it not because he didn't empathize and he thought that Lily was more worthy, but he was covering his true feelings. It's a coping strategy-- it's the same as if someone hurt my feelings and then I just made a joke about it. It's a shield.

And it's also shows him projecting himself-- the part of himself that is in love with Lily-- onto Tonks. I think that Snape hates himself for being so weak, and when he's deriding Tonks, it's really him deriding himself.

However, the rest of the essay makes some very good points, and was quite well written. Nice job.


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