Can muggles see the Hogwarts Express?

[potterwotcher]

I always wondered if the Hogwarts Express was concealed from muggles once it was out of the station. And how were Ron and Harry able to find the train while in the flying car so easily?

[DeathlyH]

I would think that they could see the Hogwarts Express. I mean, if you just saw it from the outside there would be nothnig suspicious about it. Just looks like a normal train. As for your second question, I think they knew in a general sense where the train was headed, so they went that way and eventually caught up to it. That might have been stretching it a little bit bit, but hey, it's a fiction book. Not everything is perfectly realistic.

[Vampire_Girl]

The only reason I can see the hogwarts express being hidden from muggles is that the track leads up to hogsmead, and even though they can't go there regardless, it would just be an extra security precaution. That's the only reason I can think of though, because it more or less is just a normal train, isn't it?

[Lucybird]

Well it's a steam train isn't it? So I expect it would be hidden, because the only steam trains are usually tourist attractions now so people would wonder where the station was, as usually it would be nearish for a tourist train. Not sure what sort of spells would conceal it though as it at least has travel through London repelling spells wouldn't work, maybe some sort of invisibility spell

[DeathlyH]

Originally Posted by Lucybird

Well it's a steam train isn't it? So I expect it would be hidden, because the only steam trains are usually tourist attractions now so people would wonder where the station was, as usually it would be nearish for a tourist train. Not sure what sort of spells would conceal it though as it at least has travel through London repelling spells wouldn't work, maybe some sort of invisibility spell

But remember these books took place in the early nineties; I was very young then so I wouldn't know if steam trains were still used then. Even if they weren't, they may have been in 1990 when Jo got the idea. I don't know why Muggles would make a big deal of that, personally, or try to follow it to the station. They don't know that wizards are in there. They have no reason to follow it.

[Lucybird]

Originally Posted by DeathlyH

But remember these books took place in the early nineties; I was very young then so I wouldn't know if steam trains were still used then. Even if they weren't, they may have been in 1990 when Jo got the idea. I don't know why Muggles would make a big deal of that, personally, or try to follow it to the station. They don't know that wizards are in there. They have no reason to follow it.

I'm old enough to know, we went to see steam trains in museums when I was a kid and I was born 1987, definitely wouldn't have been widely used then

Oh and I didn't mean that they'd follow it but may well be intrigued, or interested in a tourist type way, enough to at least wonder about it, and the wizards may not want to risk that

[Klio]

Originally Posted by DeathlyH

But remember these books took place in the early nineties; I was very young then so I wouldn't know if steam trains were still used then. Even if they weren't, they may have been in 1990 when Jo got the idea. I don't know why Muggles would make a big deal of that, personally, or try to follow it to the station. They don't know that wizards are in there. They have no reason to follow it.

You make me feel VERY, VERY old..... no, the 1990s aren't really all that far away, and transport technology wasn't very different then from what it is now (though you wouldn't recognise the communication technology of that period! ). In the UK most steam trains were decommissioned sometime in the 1950's and 1960's. They have been tourist attractions *only* all my life, and I was born in the early 1970's.

So yes, a steam train would look VERY odd - especially anywhere on the main line from London to Scotland.

You'd also have to wonder whether it was somehow made to speed up magically - it makes the journey to Scotland in a long afternoon, it seems, which isn't much slower than the high speed trains that run from London to Edinburgh (5 hours, I think). But if the Hogwarts train doesn't have its very own rail line it would still have to avoid those faster trains in some way.....

[LoonyMagic]

My intial response was that it could be seen, but then thinking about secrecy and so on, I'd say that it would be kept hidden, because first of all it leads up to Hogwarts (obviously not a good thing). Also because I think a steam train would create a lot of attention.

However, saying all this, the train track was probably set out in the places that most Muggles wouldn't venture...

[Lucybird]

Originally Posted by LoonyMagic

My intial response was that it could be seen, but then thinking about secrecy and so on, I'd say that it would be kept hidden, because first of all it leads up to Hogwarts (obviously not a good thing). Also because I think a steam train would create a lot of attention.

However, saying all this, the train track was probably set out in the places that most Muggles wouldn't venture...

Except that it would have to travel through central London to get out of Kings Cross

[LoonyMagic]

Originally Posted by Lucybird

Except that it would have to travel through central London to get out of Kings Cross

*facepalm* Yeah, I completely forgot about that part Well then I would say it's invisible to prevent any Muggles from finding out

[gipro2003]

Originally Posted by LoonyMagic

*facepalm* Yeah, I completely forgot about that part Well then I would say it's invisible to prevent any Muggles from finding out

Which I would agree with, except that Harry and Ron were able to locate it. If it was indeed invisible, then how so?


I think it would be risky for the wizarding world not to conceal it though, as it would very likely spur Muggles interest and curiousity if they did see it, and considering all the other security measures the wizarding world had in place, it would seem only natural that the train was hidden as well.

[DeathlyH]

Originally Posted by gipro2003

Which I would agree with, except that Harry and Ron were able to locate it. If it was indeed invisible, then how so?

I still disagree that it would have to be invisible, but if it did it would probably be like Hogwarts, so that wizards can see it perfectly fine but Muggles can't.

[deansboy]

Originally Posted by DeathlyH

I still disagree that it would have to be invisible, but if it did it would probably be like Hogwarts, so that wizards can see it perfectly fine but Muggles can't.

Thats what I thought because a wizard has to be able to see it in cases of having to stop for one reason or another. I think the charm comes on once it leaves the station as muggle parents seem to have no problem with it. Like the leaky cauldron, once you get the muggles inside they can see everything.

The train is probably like the knight bus in that it'll jump pretty quick, I think Rowling gave the train the day to run so that the kids would have a chance to talk. Kinda kills the excitement of going if you say "Bye mom and dad" and then you're at school in fifteen minutes.

[gipro2003]

Originally Posted by DeathlyH

I still disagree that it would have to be invisible, but if it did it would probably be like Hogwarts, so that wizards can see it perfectly fine but Muggles can't.

Duh.. lol I didnt think of that. Your probably right though.

[Tenshi]

I doubt it was invisible, but I think that it maybe was disguised and looked like a normal train for Muggles. I can't imagine that such a huge and moving thing can be completely made invisible and then there are still the tracks on the ground.

[crookshanks911]

I've always thought of it like the entrance to the Leaky Cauldron. It really is there but muggles just walk by without noticing. Similar to the Knight Bus in my opinion because muggles just dont look close enough.

[gemstarz101]

I think if muggles can see it, they just dismiss it as nothing irregular just a steamstrain in the countryside and go about what ever they were doing.

Harry and Ron could see it because they were following it and new where it was going (well in some way) and they were wizards which I think had to do with something to do with it.

Thats just my opinion though.

[Klio]

Originally Posted by gemstarz101

I think if muggles can see it, they just dismiss it as nothing irregular just a steamstrain in the countryside and go about what ever they were doing.

erm. It's just that a steam train in the countryside almost anywhere between London and Scotland is a highly irregular thing.

It's not as if they just pop up like that.... there are a few heritage' lines that have steam trains and muggles would expect to see them there - but anywhere else a steam train would look really odd. And the weirdest thing is of course how you'd disguise the steam .... the train is perhaps possible... but how do you put some sort of disillusionment charm on steam?

I am not sure whether all muggles on the route (that's millions) could be put under some sort of precautionary memory charm, or better, perhaps 'mis-perception' charm.

[Voldemorts8thHorcrux]

They probably already knew the general direction of it so it was easier for them. however, I think that muggles probably could. It just looks normal on the outside, and even if they could look inside, it wouldnt look too abnormal. If it isn't, I think it would probably just be invisible or something

[JediMasterSnape]

I would say muggles could not see them. Also, as for the steam trains, it seems that with Harry Potter, you almost step back in time. So steam trains would not be out of the ordinary. Sure, their are some modern things in the wizrding world, but look at it as a whole, it seems kind of in the past.