Can muggles see the Hogwarts Express?

[_LoonyLovegood_]

Originally Posted by Gwenhwyfara

I think I do remember the books saying somewhere that Hogwarts sent someone to talk with the families of muggleborn witches and wizards to explain everything. Probably the reason Hagrid was the one sent for Harry was that he was the most impressive-looking staff member and most likely to be able to quell Uncle Vernon's (rather predictable) attempts at physical violence and (entirely unavoidable) efforts to seem superior. Not that McGonagall couldn't cope -- Hagrid just looked more fearsome and was more likely to get the Dursleys to cooperate without having to tie them up and leave them in sacks in the corner.

I believe they say that during The Prince's Tale; Snape tells Lily that someone has to explain to the family of Muggle borns (which is what sparks the, "Does it make a difference being Muggle born?" if I'm remembering correctly).
And yes, I think you're right about that. Hagrid has a more...significant presence, I guess you could say.

[Klio]

Originally Posted by inkling7

..... A charm might enable it to get a free run at those times or as I said before it runs in a different dimension somehow.

... this could explain the many delays on UK railways.... I wonder. Are there more wizarding trains that keep their track free for themselves by charms? Confunced muggles would then explain their exasperated passengers that the train is delayed because of faulty signals/congestion in stations/leaves on the line and so forth.

I BET there is a regular wizard train on the line from Paddington to the west.


Sorry - I couldn't help myself




Concerning who came to Harry to tell him about the school.

Since Dumbledore sent letters first we have to assume that he expected the Dursleys to have told Harry about the wizarding world. After all, he expected Petunia to know enough about Hogwarts!

In the end, perhaps Hagrid was given the privilege because he had brought Harry from Godric's Hollow to the Dursley's 10 years earlier...

[Gwenhwyfara]

Originally Posted by Klio

In the end, perhaps Hagrid was given the privilege because he had brought Harry from Godric's Hollow to the Dursley's 10 years earlier...

Agreed. I'd be very surprised if Hagrid didn't request the job. (Possibly with tearful remeniscences of how he "fell asleep as we were flyin' over Bristol.") Dumbledore wouldn't have had the heart to say no!

[inkling7]

If there is a Wizard Express mucking up the timetables of British Rail then there must be a whole lot of them running in Sydney NSW Australia mucking up City Rail trains every day.

[Gwenhwyfara]

I wonder if they could "borrow" a muggle track when the Express needed to run? Take it from the place it normally goes (leaving, of course, a suitable diversion in its place) and put it on a course to Hogsmeade?

[Klio]

Originally Posted by inkling7

If there is a Wizard Express mucking up the timetables of British Rail then there must be a whole lot of them running in Sydney NSW Australia mucking up City Rail trains every day.

LOL.... well, the Aussie wizards have to get to school somewhere as well....

I wonder where they hide a school like that in OZ.... a crumbling ruin won't look credible... I'd hope that a lot of aboriginal magic would be involved down under

Concerning the Hogsmeade track - well, if they do use the muggle tracks then it would simply branch off somewhere - presumably as an invisible track, with invisible points

Since the railway goes up all the way past Inverness to Wick (if I recall correctly) it doesn't matter how far north the place is, there will be a muggle track it can branch off from....

[DeathlyH]

Originally Posted by Klio

LOL.... well, the Aussie wizards have to get to school somewhere as well....

I wonder where they hide a school like that in OZ.... a crumbling ruin won't look credible... I'd hope that a lot of aboriginal magic would be involved down under

Concerning the Hogsmeade track - well, if they do use the muggle tracks then it would simply branch off somewhere - presumably as an invisible track, with invisible points

Since the railway goes up all the way past Inverness to Wick (if I recall correctly) it doesn't matter how far north the place is, there will be a muggle track it can branch off from....

I think it may be one of those things designed as a perfectly normal Myggle device, but with hidden magic, like the Quidditch World Cup campsite or St. Mungo's. I mean, they may just have some wizards pretending to be Muggles setting it up as a normal Muggle train on a Muggle track, and make up a Muggle destination a little north of Hogwarts. But then they don't actually go there, but the station doesn't know that. It's kinda far-fetched, but I think it could be possible. Plus, wouldn't Muggles be a bit suspicious of they saw a train coming out of nowhere at all?

[RemusLupinFan]

The Hogwarts Express is a pretty ordinary train on the outside, so I see no reason why it would have to be disguised. I'm sure Muggles can see it and I'm sure they'd make nothing of it since it doesn't draw attention to itself in any way by being obviously magical. But I suppose if need be it could be cloaked or disillusioned.

[Klio]

Well, I thought we had established that a steam train isn't anything like a 'pretty ordinary train on the outside'.....

Not in the British countryside anyway...

[Tenshi]

Originally Posted by RemusLupinFan

The Hogwarts Express is a pretty ordinary train on the outside, so I see no reason why it would have to be disguised. I'm sure Muggles can see it and I'm sure they'd make nothing of it since it doesn't draw attention to itself in any way by being obviously magical. But I suppose if need be it could be cloaked or disillusioned.

It's a steam train and hence nothing that runs in Britain without arising attention. There are no steam engines use anymore since almost 40 years.

[Graduand_Esk]

Actually, there are a very small number of steam trains still in operation. I think there is one the runs on the Glenfinnan viaduct in Scotland, in fact - I would presume it was an image like this one that inspired JKR to write her particular description of how pupils travel to Hogwarts.

I would think that Muggles who happened to be in the vicinity would be vaguely aware of an old-fashioned train chugging past. No-one would really have to worry about people getting suspicious, given that the Hogwarts Express only travels once at the beginning of September and once part of the way through June. A steam train passing on a twice-yearly basis isn't going to be that noticeable.

[Wab]

Originally Posted by Tenshi

It's a steam train and hence nothing that runs in Britain without arising attention. There are no steam engines use anymore since almost 40 years.

Not for general main line services but: "Main Line Steam trains - every weekend throughout the year. Re-creating the experience of famous expresses of the steam age. Passenger trains also on weekdays, June to August. Relax in the comfort of our classic corridor trains - steam heated in Winter. Just like British Railways in the great years of steam."

Great Central Railway

That is just one of a number of tourist, historical and enthusiast services running all over the country.

[inkling7]

The Hogwarts Express would also have to run at Xmas for those students spending the holidays with family. I'm not sure about Easter though. However at Kings Cross Station they'd have to hide this Platform making it like Grim Place. The railway tracks leading away from it could also be like that - sandwiched in alongside normal tracks until they reach the country at least.

There are plenty of ghost towns and ruins of old farmhouses in the country here in Australia that could be disguised for a wizard school. I used to travel on a steam train a few times a year from a country town to attend boarding school in Sydney only we travelled overnight both ways arriving in the mornings at our destinations.

[Lucybird]

Well Dumbledore was secret keeper for Grimmauld place wasn't he, so I very much doubt it was hidden in the same way, it would have had to require all the children being told where the track was so they could travel on it

[inkling7]

This 'problem' was probably covered in the correspondence which ensued between the parents and children of those invited to attend Hogwarts and the keeper of the lists of children who passed the criteria to enable this attendance. Anyway they would most likely only need to know where the platform was at Kings Cross Station and how to get onto it and once on the train would be OK. I would the same would go for Diagon Alley. However as most wizarding families probably knew how to get to both these places then only Muggleborns would need to be told this secret which is only there to protect the wizarding world from ordinary muggles who had no witches or wizards as offspring.

[Lucybird]

Originally Posted by inkling7

This 'problem' was probably covered in the correspondence which ensued between the parents and children of those invited to attend Hogwarts and the keeper of the lists of children who passed the criteria to enable this attendance. Anyway they would most likely only need to know where the platform was at Kings Cross Station and how to get onto it and once on the train would be OK. I would the same would go for Diagon Alley. However as most wizarding families probably knew how to get to both these places then only Muggleborns would need to be told this secret which is only there to protect the wizarding world from ordinary muggles who had no witches or wizards as offspring.

But there's only one secret keeper, every single person would have to be told once by the secret keeper (or a letter written by them) which means the secret can't be passed between families, a letter is possible yes, but it seems the only letter was the acceptance/invitation letter. Diagon alley is a bit different because you have to tap the right place on the wall (presumably not with a wand as Tom Riddle got through before getting his wand, although possibly only if you're magical).

[HeRmIoNe_14]

In the scene at the train station in "the prince's tale", Lily and her family were there. I'm not sure it was mentioned precisely on what side of the barrier they were, but it was kind of obvious, because it said something about Petunia looking around and watching people exchange summer news, parents saying good byes, animals screeching and meowing...the leaky cauldron is one thing, it's on a muggle street, so it is invisible so that no muggle will get inside. But the train itself, it's already inside the platform, once you're there it is okay if you see it, either you're witch/wizard or muggle parent who knows about it anyway. It would be like making Gringotts invisible to muggles, quite unnecessary, as they can't get inside Diagon Alley in the first place. When the train is already moving, it doesn't matter anymore, it's only a train, nothing odd about that

[inkling7]

Isn't that more or less just what I said? There would have to be some protection on the place where you go through the wall to get to the platform or some Muggles might see the others doing it and try it for themselves. I'm surprised that this didn't happen with the whole Weasley family as Kings Cross is a very busy station and the railway official saw Ron and Harry collide with the wall in COS when they couldn't get in because of Dobby. However this protection might only be applicable when the train is running and when it is only necessary for those going to Hogwarts and their families etc plus the odd witch or wizard who want to see some friends off. Apart from that the wall may not be accessible to even the wizarding world as it wouldn't be necessary would it.

[Gwenhwyfara]

Originally Posted by Lucybird

But there's only one secret keeper, every single person would have to be told once by the secret keeper (or a letter written by them) which means the secret can't be passed between families, a letter is possible yes, but it seems the only letter was the acceptance/invitation letter. Diagon alley is a bit different because you have to tap the right place on the wall (presumably not with a wand as Tom Riddle got through before getting his wand, although possibly only if you're magical).

There wouldn't be only one secret keeper by this point, it would have become diluted, like the secret of Grimauld Place after Dumbledore's death. Everyone he had told then became co-keeper of the (now weaker) secret.

[Lucybird]

Originally Posted by Gwenhwyfara

There wouldn't be only one secret keeper by this point, it would have become diluted, like the secret of Grimauld Place after Dumbledore's death. Everyone he had told then became co-keeper of the (now weaker) secret.

Hmm I kinda see what you mean. I still think it's a bit complicated though, wouldn't all the previous secret keepers have to die before any of the new generation were able to pass on the secret?