Things change - boggarts, patronuses, and worst memories after DH

[katishere]

NOTE: So I surfed quickly through other threads and there was one on whether or not Harry's patronus would change but nothing on this general idea which is a question I've been wondering and that I think could spark a good deal of discussion.


Things Change

There are those three main things that we always want to know about every character and that people always seem to wonder. What's their patronus? What's their boggart? What do they seem in a dementor attack?

I was just thining about this in regards to a fanfic of mine where I'm contemplating a later scene with a dementor and wondering what the characters should see--would Harry still hear his parents dying? Or would he see something else--Dobby dying? Fred dying? Ginny nearly getting killed? Voldemort raising his wand to kill him?

So that sparked this question in me:

Would any of the main characters boggarts, patronuses and worst memories change after DH? And if so--to what and why?

.

[kathleen_hpffl]

Originally Posted by katishere

Would any of the main characters boggarts, patronuses and worst memories change after DH? And if so--to what and why?

Hm, this is a very good question to ponder and I myself have wondered about this many times. Because of all the deaths and such that happened during the Battle of Hogwarts, their boggarts and worst memories would have changed. Their patronuses however might have changed if they loved someone deeply, such as when Tonks' changed into Remus' werewolf form. I think I've seen in some fanfic that Harry's patronus, a stag, changed to a form of his and Ginny's patronus, a horse. And Severus Snape's changed into a doe because of his deep love for Lily Potter and the grief in which he felt. So yes I would assume that those objects could change after the DH book.

[wickedwickedboy]

Seems the females have a patronus change when they fall in love (Lily/Tonks), so that might happen for some of them. I doubt Snape's patronus changed because he wouldn't have had one until after he changed sides (Death Eaters didn't have them) and by then Lily was his happy thought, so it just made a doe. So I don't think the men's patronuses change.

I don't think the Boggart ever changes, even if your fear does. Lupin's remained a moon and it didn't faze him at all, he got rid of it with a flick of his hand. Could be though that he simply had no other fears, but that is doubtful considering the horrors he faced during the first war and his best friends dying and going to Azkaban, etc. So I imagine they don't generally change. Perhaps if there are more than one, they will capitalize on many of your fears - like what happened to Molly, but otherwise, one will just stick with some old fear you had as a kid that is buried deep and it thinks it can scare you with that forever.

Worst memories change daily I would imagine. . Take Ginny; it may have been the whole diary episode in her life; but then switched to worrying over Harry being dead after reading a report; then again when she saw him "dead" at the final battle; then again when she saw Fred dead; later it might become her horrible play that lost her professional team the championship, and after that an accident little James Sirius had when small being rambunctious as he was; and later Harry gone too long out on a mission and still later the day she realized that none of the clothes from her youth fit anymore when she's 70 years old because she's grown too plump . So yeah, those likely change over time.

[SusanBones]

I think that boggarts change as people's fears change. Molly's boggart was the dead bodies of her loved ones. She would not have had the same boggart as a student. And once the war was over, her boggart may have changed, too.

[LaDonna]

I think we can assume George's would have changed into whatever Fred's was, or something that represented Fred. I don't really think Harry's would have changed, because it seems like that might have happened after DD died if it was going to happen. I thought if his patronus changed, I was thinking it might have changed into a phoniex after DD died, but I was wrong about that. Does anyone remember what JKR said about why Lily's patronus was a Doe? I thought she gave an interview about how your patrnous often changes because of the love of your life, but I can't remember how that would relate to Lily's being a Doe. Is it just because she was a mate of James who was a stag? Snape's became Lily's after Lily died, but it just seems like the Doe was Lily, and seems weird that it had to do with James Stag, since it wasn't a stag itself. I think George's thoughts brought on by the Dementor's would be Fred's death, and Ginny's would probably have been seeing Harry's dead body on the grass by V's feet from DH. Ron's may be Hermione being tortured by Bellatrix. Harry's seen a lot of horrible things, his may be a number of different memories. As for the boggart, I think Harry's would become the people he loved dying or V coming back. I like this question and discussing this.

[wickedwickedboy]

Lily's changed to conform to the love of her life because that was her happiest thought (hers formed into a doe conforming to his stag) according to JKR. Tonks' changed into a werewolf, but it is uncertain if it was male or female. But only the females seemed to change this way in canon (James & Lupin's didn't change). Maybe though it is whoever learns it first - the second just conforms - Remus would have had his first as Tonks was just a kid in the first war. Lily was Snape's happy thought so his was a doe - but it did not conform to hers (with a part of him still in it) like Lily's did (doe meets Stag), his became the same animal as hers, I guess because his love was one way.

[katishere]

Hm, this is a very good question to ponder and I myself have wondered about this many times. Because of all the deaths and such that happened during the Battle of Hogwarts, their boggarts and worst memories would have changed. Their patronuses however might have changed if they loved someone deeply, such as when Tonks' changed into Remus' werewolf form. I think I've seen in some fanfic that Harry's patronus, a stag, changed to a form of his and Ginny's patronus, a horse. And Severus Snape's changed into a doe because of his deep love for Lily Potter and the grief in which he felt. So yes I would assume that those objects could change after the DH book.

Mmm, yes I agree.

I think it's definately likely that many of their worst memories changed, but it's still debatable I guess, because, like with Harry, how do you judge what's worse than your parents's deaths? I mean it seems like he went through some horrible stuff but then each horrible thing was sort of coupled to something really wonderful. Like when he was walking to his death: that was horrible, but I don't really seem reliving that with horror because he got to walk it with his parents and two childhood mentors.

And just to add to this, what do you think Ron, Hermione, and Ginny's worst memories even are?

We never see them in the books. And same thing with Ginny's boggart.

Here's some of my estimations:

Ron's worst memory pre-DH: I'd imagine a montage of times Fred and George played really cruel pranks on him like when they turned his teddy bear into a giant spider (the thing that traumatized him into horrible fear of spiders for the rest of his life)

Hermione's: This one's really hard to imagine, we don't really know much about Hermione before the books so I can only try and find something from her adventures with Harry. (She wouldn't have met a boggart before anyway since she didn't have any contact with the magical world). I guess maybe when Ron was poisoned or maybe just a montage of all her escapades with Harry and Ron that turned out badly.

Ginny's: Thinking about both her worst memory and her boggart here, I think it would definately, definately involve Tom Riddle and her first year with the Chamber of Secrets.



As far as changes go, these are the things I was thinking about:

Ron's worst memory most likely changed to Fred's death, I'd imagine that that would definately be the most traumatrizing thing for him because the death of a brother is really, well, traumatizing. Probably the Locket-Harry/Hermione kiss too because that obviously had a huge emotional impact on him too.

I'd imagine that Hermione's would definately involve Ron leaving, I mean she like cracked when he left. Hysterical. I think that would definately warrent a worst memory since the battles and things didn't seem to effect her as intensely.

For Ginny I think that her worst memory would definately be the deaths: first seeing Fred, her beloved brother die, and then seeing Harry, the love of her life being carried limp and lifeless in front of Voldemort's sneering face--that probably scarred the girl forever.

But that does make wonder about her boggart--would it have changed? Would her greatest fear have been so effected by seeing loved ones die that it would surpass her childhood trauma of waking up to Tom Riddle telling her shes about to submit her life energy to him? I go back and forth with that one...


And my last bit of input here is about patronuses: Ron/Hermoine and Harry/Ginny having theirs become something else?

I wonder how common that change really is, I mean does it happen often or were Tonks and James/Lily just random cases.

To tell you the truth I see Harry's being the one to change. It seems to me that the change doesn't just occur when people fall in love, but when that love is a HUGE change in a person's life and a huge shift of focus. Like for Tonks and Lupin it was this whole ordeal that sent Tonks into depression and with Lily and James it literally changed Jame's entire disposition in order to win him Lily and Lily went against everything she used to believe in falling in love with him so both those things are completely radical--I'm curious as to wether it was James or Lily's patronus that changed? Does anyone really know for sure? I don't really think that Ron and Hermione's relationship warrents that because they just came together really naturally and easily, it was just right but never anything super dramatic or altering for them. If formed slowly and once it was out in the open it just worked.

For Harry I think finding Ginny meant a lot more to him because she was not only his soul mate but his promise for a family at last which was the deepest and dearest desire of his heart as we saw in the mirror of erised. I think Harry and Ginny's patronuses would become a pair. Whether that means that Harry's becomes a stallion for Ginny's mare, or whether they both change to something completely different I don't know. I like the idea of the wild stallion and the mare though, it just fits them and their relationship. Sort of two lone animals that have each other, wild and powerful you know? *fangirrling just a bit*

Seems the females have a patronus change when they fall in love (Lily/Tonks), so that might happen for some of them. I doubt Snape's patronus changed because he wouldn't have had one until after he changed sides (Death Eaters didn't have them) and by then Lily was his happy thought, so it just made a doe. So I don't think the men's patronuses change.

I'm not so sure though, I mean Snape seemed pretty booky and not everything he learned or studied was evil or anything so I can see him having a patronus before that. Besides, don't you tecnically still have a patronus even before you've conjured it? I think it's safe to say that if learned to do it before he met Lily, it would not have been the same as after so therefore anyone's can change. If it were only for females then that would mean that every male's patronus is chosen from birth which just wouldn't seem right because the thing that most impacts you is bound to change as life goes on.

I think that boggarts change as people's fears change. Molly's boggart was the dead bodies of her loved ones. She would not have had the same boggart as a student. And once the war was over, her boggart may have changed, too.

Definately! Yeah I think it's the same thing I was saying with the patronus, just because you haven't met a boggart yet doesn't mean you don't have a form it would take if you did meet one so therefore even if you only ever see one form of it, it might have changed a hundred times without ever being seen.

[kathleen_hpffl]

I think it's definately likely that many of their worst memories changed, but it's still debatable I guess, because, like with Harry, how do you judge what's worse than your parents's deaths? I mean it seems like he went through some horrible stuff but then each horrible thing was sort of coupled to something really wonderful. Like when he was walking to his death: that was horrible, but I don't really seem reliving that with horror because he got to walk it with his parents and two childhood mentors.

Exactly! I think that Harry's parents' deaths obviously had a very deep emotional pull from him but there is also plenty of other things that happened to him over his years; Ginny when she almost died in the CoS, Ron being poisoned, all of the deaths that happened to people dear to him(Sirius, DD, Fred, Remus.. etc.), and probably plenty of other things that probably emotionally effected him hard.

what do you think Ron, Hermione, and Ginny's worst memories even are?

I absolutely agree with all of the things that you mentioned, especially the after DH experiences.

And my last bit of input here is about patronuses: Ron/Hermoine and Harry/Ginny having theirs become something else?

Like I mentioned in my other post, someone had written in their fanfic that Harry's patronus changed into a stallion to show his love and deep affection for Ginny and hers turned into a mare, as you said.

Sort of two lone animals that have each other, wild and powerful you know? *fangirrling just a bit*

This part made me laugh. I would have to agree with you 100% even if we do fangirl just a bit.

[LaDonna]

Just because Tonks and Lily's changed, I don't think that indicates the females would be the only one's that change. That seems sort of sexist, and I really don't think JKR would plan this. After all, we know that Snape's changed for Lily. Has anyone ever heard if JKR has confirmed that James patronus was a stag? I don't think it was. I imagine that a stag represented James to Lily, but I still don't see why hers would be a doe instead of a stag like Harry's? I wish that it had been Lily's patronus all along and never changed, I would have liked that better. Especially since Snape's became Lily's patronus. And obviously, the doe was Lily, since Harry sort of recognized the doe. I just wished it had been explained in detail.

[inkling7]

For Ginny I think that her worst memory would definately be the deaths: first seeing George, her beloved brother die,

Um Katishere I think you mean Fred don't you? George didn't die.

I think boggarts could change depending on what your fears become. For instance Ron might have had some help in overcoming his fear of spiders and so no longer feared them quite as much and so another fear might have replaced his spider boggart.

Neville most likely got over his fear of Snape after Snape died and was revealed as a brave man etc and so his Snape boggart most likely changed to something else.

I think boggarts like patronuses can change.

[LaDonna]

I think we know boggarts can change, as we can be sure that Hermione's greatest fear is no longer failing class, and we know that Mrs. Weasley's fear of her children, her husband, and Harry dying couldn't have been her worst fear when she was a teenager.

[Rons_Twin_Sis]

I expect most people's boggarts would be the people they love dying, really. As for worst memories, I expect Ron's would be Fred's death, and Ginny's would be Harry's 'death', or maybe finding out about Fred's death, as I don't think she was there when he died.

[FurryDice]

Post DH, I'd imagine most peoples' worst memories would be linked to the Battle of Hogwarts or other events of that year, for example, Ron hearing Hermione being tortured, for others, seeing loved ones die in the battle, for Ginny, perhaps believing Harry dead, the loss of Fred, for all the Weasleys.

Pre-DH, I'd imagine that Rons' worst memories might relate to seeing Hermione petrified, the night at Grimmauld Place waiting for news of Arthurs' fate, the battle at the Ministry, being poisoned.
For Hermione, perhaps, seeing Ron after he was poisoned and her regret at the time they'd wasted feuding
Ginny, I'm sure, her time being possessed by Riddle
Molly, the loss of her brothers in the first war, perhaps.

[Voldemorts8thHorcrux]

I imagine a lot of things would have changed. Lover's patronuses may change, boggarts may change from dead people to something a bit normal. Worst memories may be things like seeing your friends and family die.

[Beatifically]

Originally Posted by wickedwickedboy

I don't think the Boggart ever changes, even if your fear does. Lupin's remained a moon and it didn't faze him at all, he got rid of it with a flick of his hand. Could be though that he simply had no other fears, but that is doubtful considering the horrors he faced during the first war and his best friends dying and going to Azkaban, etc. So I imagine they don't generally change. Perhaps if there are more than one, they will capitalize on many of your fears - like what happened to Molly, but otherwise, one will just stick with some old fear you had as a kid that is buried deep and it thinks it can scare you with that forever.

I do think that a Boggart could change. Lupin's probably didn't because, despite his reaction to seeing the Boggart, he still hated what he became every month at the full moon. It would make the Boggart useless if it never changed its shape in accordance to the person's fear.

[katishere]

Originally Posted by beatifically

I do think that a Boggart could change. Lupin's probably didn't because, despite his reaction to seeing the Boggart, he still hated what he became every month at the full moon. It would make the Boggart useless if it never changed its shape in accordance to the person's fear.

Yeah I agree, the boggart can definately change because like it's been said before, Mrs. Weasley wouldn't have seen Harry dead in her boggart when she was young--he wouldn't even have been born and neither would her children. I guess you could argue that her fear didn't change though but it's still not reasonable to think that a person's greatest fear is the same from birth.

[wickedwickedboy]

Originally Posted by LaDonna

Just because Tonks and Lily's changed, I don't think that indicates the females would be the only one's that change. That seems sort of sexist, and I really don't think JKR would plan this. After all, we know that Snape's changed for Lily. Has anyone ever heard if JKR has confirmed that James patronus was a stag? I don't think it was. I imagine that a stag represented James to Lily, but I still don't see why hers would be a doe instead of a stag like Harry's? I wish that it had been Lily's patronus all along and never changed, I would have liked that better. Especially since Snape's became Lily's patronus. And obviously, the doe was Lily, since Harry sort of recognized the doe. I just wished it had been explained in detail.

Snape's may not have changed. Dumbledore said that Death Eaters don't have patronuses and they don't normally teach the very difficult ability at Hogwarts (Harry's DA class was an anomoly of course). Snape would get his patronus when he changed sides, imo, and at that point he already had emotions for Lily. But even if by some odd chance he had one before, his emotions were so shaken up, it would change because that is what Lupin said can happen (like with Tonks).

That is different than when people just fall happily in love like James and Lily. JRK confirmed that James' patronus was a stag and she said that their patronuses conformed because they were one another's happy thought as soulmates. I figure they learned it when they became Order members, at the same time, so maybe they just conformed to one another. But in POA, Harry had his father's same Stag because he 'found his father within himself' and we know James was a Stag animagus - so that kind of says that James was a Stag anyway which is why many people figured that Lily's doe formed to conform to it because James was a stag back in 5th year before either got their patronuses - but her patronus still represented Lily too because it didn't change into a Stag, the male deer, - it was a doe (a deer a female deer...) - it just conformed.

But I kind of think James and Lily got their's at the same time when they were already in love - they did not have a "shaking up" moment involved because since they don't teach it at Hogwarts, it is likely they got it once they joined the Order and were already in love. Whereas like Harry and Ginny and Ron and Hermione got theirs earlier before they were settled in love, so they just got their personality patronuses. I agree with whoever said that their patronuses would likely not change because their would not be any real "shaking up" event associated with their finally confirming their relationships (like Tonks had).

Whereas Snape's didn't conform to Lily's patronus, because she didn't love him back and so his one way love just issued the same as hers, I guess. That might have happened to Tonks too, but the thing is, Lupin did love her, he was just in denial, so it was slightly different - and so hers may have been a female werewolf - although if she didn't know he really loved her, she may have been in the same situation as Snape at that point, mentally, so then it would likely issue like his and be a male werewolf. Arrgghhh - the one way and depressed love thing is confusing,

[The_Green_Woods]

I also think the war may have had an effect on their minds and perhaps their Patronus.

Harry -- I think his would change from a stag to a doe, in respect of his mother and Snape.

[inkling7]

Actually that's a good point his patronus might have become a doe instead and he shouldn't have any boggarts now. I wonder what people who don't have ANY fears would see in a boggart. Perhaps they see what a boggart really looks like?

[MmeBergerac]

I think that Hermione's boggart changed. After what the trio's been through, failing subjects sounds like a joke. I dare say that her new boggart would have something to do with Bellatrix Lestrange and the nigt at Malfoy Manor.