U.S. 2008 Elections: McCain vs Obama

[Jessica]

Well it's official, Obama is the Democratic candidate. Which means one headache is down for the mods and another one begins. Err. . . I mean, it's the happy time where we combine the Democrat and Republican threads into a single thread.

First I bring you a word from our sponsors:

1. If something is a fact state your source.
2. If something is not a fact explain that it is your opinion. I do not care if it is a fact in your opinion. If it's not a fact backed up by a reliable source then it is your opinion and I expect you to say so.
3. If something is blatantly not a fact like a blanket statement that all Republicans are racist wife beating totalitarians or that all Democrats still sleep with a teddy bear then please do not say it. You can say that in your opinion many Democrats still sleep with a teddy bear but if you present this as a fact then I want to see a source confirming it to be true.

That's it. Something is a fact or it's your opinion. It should be clear which is which at all times.

If you do not follow these simple guidelines and as always How to have a pleasant conversation on any topic. You will be removed from the DoIMC for at least one week or up to 30 days. This applies to everyone Democrats and Republicans alike. Any questions on modding go to myself, Morgoth or lanifiel. Any offensive posts should be reported. If you respond rudely to a rude post you will be warned and removed from the DoIMC. Ah yes, happy days ahead.

So yes on to the topic itself.

1. Have you decided who you will (would) vote for?
2. Which issues are the most important to you? Health care? Iraq? The economy? Which candidate do you think is stronger on the issues that matter to you?
3. Who do you think would be the best VP pick for each candidate?
4. How do you feel about the campaigns Obama and McCain have run so far? What do you think they will need to do to secure the Presidency?

[lindaluna]

Beautiful Obama speech - I smell victory !

I'm enrolled to help my local congressional race. It's very red here in Orange County, CA, but we'll push.

3,000 th post - on new thread ! How wonderful ! (will I top 4K by November?)

[Hagrid442]

Err. . . I mean, it's the happy time where we combine the Democrat and Republican threads into a single thread.

That's Democratic

1. Have you decided who you will (would) vote for?

Not really. Leaning towards Barack. Know it won't be McCain. Since the primary and all these things swirling around Obama have made him into IMO a weaksauce candidate, it's still likely I'll vote for him. Or I might just go Libertarian or something. If I do vote for Obama, there won't be any joy in it.

2. Which issues are the most important to you? Health care? Iraq? The economy? Which candidate do you think is stronger on the issues that matter to you?

All three of those are tops on my list. And McCain offers nothing that is in line with my views. Obama does at least.

3. Who do you think would be the best VP pick for each candidate?

I don't know. I just know that Obama should be extremely wary about making Clinton VP.

4. How do you feel about the campaigns Obama and McCain have run so far? What do you think they will need to do to secure the Presidency?

McCain, too late, is trying to distance himself from Bush. I don't appreciate that he has pandered to the worst elements of the GOP. The McCain that I thought was compelling a few years ago is sadly gone. In order for him to win, he'll need to both show that he's experienced and Obama's not. But I don't think he can win on Iraq. Obama has to distance himself from erstwhile supporters that are embarrassments. It will be tough to do however. Some white independents are sure to make Obama pay for his supporters' (Wright and Pfleger) shameless race-baiting. In fact, that's almost the case with me. This and his connection with Tony Rezko make me wary.

[grams]

1. Have you decided who you will (would) vote for?
John McCain

2. Which issues are the most important to you? Health care? Iraq? The economy? Which candidate do you think is stronger on the issues that matter to you?
National security, economy, character. McCain is stonger on all three.

3. Who do you think would be the best VP pick for each candidate?
No opinion yet.

4. How do you feel about the campaigns Obama and McCain have run so far? What do you think they will need to do to secure the Presidency?
I think Obama has promised everything the democrates want to hear. McCain could use some work on delivery but his message is believable.

Yeah, I'm the first post, guess everyone else is watching Obama.

Originally Posted by grams

1. Have you decided who you will (would) vote for?
John McCain

2. Which issues are the most important to you? Health care? Iraq? The economy? Which candidate do you think is stronger on the issues that matter to you?
National security, economy, character. McCain is stonger on all three.

3. Who do you think would be the best VP pick for each candidate?
No opinion yet.

4. How do you feel about the campaigns Obama and McCain have run so far? What do you think they will need to do to secure the Presidency?
I think Obama has promised everything the democrates want to hear. McCain could use some work on delivery but his message is believable.

Yeah, I'm the first post, guess everyone else is watching Obama.

Shucky darn - guess my typing is too slow.

[purplehawk]

I'm too happy tonight to answer questions. I will do so tomorrow.

[Hagrid442]

Originally Posted by purplehawk

I'm too happy tonight to answer questions. I will do so tomorrow.

I'm overwhelmingly underwhelmed.

[HouseStark]

1. Have you decided who you will (would) vote for?
Barack Obama
2. Which issues are the most important to you? Health care? Iraq? The economy? Which candidate do you think is stronger on the issues that matter to you?
Health care, the economy, net neutrality, Obama agrees with my position on all of those
3. Who do you think would be the best VP pick for each candidate?
I don't know. I feel like Bill Richardson would be a good VP, but I'd rather him be the Secretary of State. I don't want Hillary as the VP
4. How do you feel about the campaigns Obama and McCain have run so far? What do you think they will need to do to secure the Presidency?
Obama's campaign has been masterful, he's hit all the right notes at the perfect time. McCain, in my opinion, was simply the least flawed of the Republican candidates.

[Hanover_Fist]

1. Have you decided who you will (would) vote for?

I'm open to Obama, but I have to see who his running mate is. If he chooses Hillary or someone completely off the wall, I'm going with Bob Barr.

2. Which issues are the most important to you? Health care? Iraq? The economy? Which candidate do you think is stronger on the issues that matter to you?

1) Terrorism/national security/Iraq
2) Censorship/media regulation
3) Ending prosecution of victimless crimes
4) Strengthening the economy, lowering taxes
5) Getting the federal government out of education, and returning choice to parents

3. Who do you think would be the best VP pick for each candidate?

For Obama, Bill Richardson. He's moderate, intelligent, and IMO, should have been the one to get the Democratic nomination in the first place.

For McCain, maybe Joe Lieberman. Even though I don't like him personally, from an objective standpoint, he would be able to pull over some moderate-to-conservative Democrats while espousing some traditionally conservative views that would not cause Republicans to turn away.

Barr picked a good one in Wayne Root, who I was campaigning hard for during the Libertarian primaries.

4. How do you feel about the campaigns Obama and McCain have run so far? What do you think they will need to do to secure the Presidency?

Obama did very well in the face of below the belt hits from his opponents and tough obstacles like the Jeremiah Wright controversy. His message of change has really hit a chord, especially among Gen-Xers and Milenniums. He has to ensure that he is still immune to these controversies once the general election comes around.

McCain has been low-profile and not really out on the trail once he took the nomination, which takes him out of the public eye. On the positive side, he has avoided the negativity and mudslinging that has plagued the Democrats until now.

Barr has to show he has truly reversed himself on his past social stances (Defense of Marriage Act, Clinton impeachment, War on Drugs) that would turn off a large section of Libertarians. At the same time, he must use his experience and name recognition (and tap into Root's natural charisma) to galvanize a strong movement among people who may not like either major candidate.

[FleurduJardin]

Originally Posted by Hagrid442

That's Democratic

Actually I think it's "Democrat" (no "ic") and "Republican". The USA is a democratic country, it has two main parties, the Democrats and the Republicans. The "ic" thing is something that GW Bush kept saying when referring to the Dems and got derided for. Though one does say "The Democratic candidate" as well as "the candidate for the Democrats". Very confusing for a foreigner like me, but I try to follow what's being written and said by people in the know.

Since I don't vote in this country, my vote in here counts only as my opinion of who I think will win.

[purplehawk]

The proper name is the Democratic Party. Not the Democrat Party.

[flimseycauldron]

Originally Posted by Jessica

1. Have you decided who you will (would) vote for?

I was an Edwards supporter. I would love to see him as VP although I know many will disagree with me. I liked Clinton as my back up but it was not meant to be. I feel nothing for Obama. Perhaps he can shange the country but his record doesn't bear it out thus far. I'd hate to elect him on his brief history in politics. But I simply can't support McCain. He is soft on the economy--by his own admission--and I can't get on board with Iraq. If it was a lesser of two evil I'd probably go Obama. Which isn't to say that I don't respect both men immensely, I do.

Originally Posted by Jessica

2. Which issues are the most important to you? Health care? Iraq? The economy? Which candidate do you think is stronger on the issues that matter to you?

Education and the economy are my two biggest issues. I hope that both Obam and McCain get very specific in their plans for these areas.

Originally Posted by Jessica

3. Who do you think would be the best VP pick for each candidate?

Edwards for sure for Obama (I know it'll never happen though). I'm not familiar with Republicans but McCain should court a female VP, imho.

Originally Posted by Hagrid442

4. How do you feel about the campaigns Obama and McCain have run so far?

I feel like McCain is a one trick pony. Iraq. I want him to convey to me his positions on other equal if not more important issues. I don't want to have to go digging through to find out exactly what he stands for. Obama just seems---flowery to me. Quite showy but nearly empty of true passion. I feel like he was lucky in that Clinton took the implosion to new levels and that the primary scedule favored him when it counted. Had some of the later states gone sooner I think we would have seen a different outcome.

Originally Posted by Jessica

What do you think they will need to do to secure the Presidency?

McCain needs to show he's not one dimensional. Obama needs to start getting his message to the working class.

[lindaluna]

Originally Posted by flimseycauldron

McCain needs to show he's not one dimensional. Obama needs to start getting his message to the working class.

It's late, for a moment I thought you said "McCain needs to show he's not premenstrual".

[flimseycauldron]

Originally Posted by lindaluna

It's late, for a moment I thought you said "McCain needs to show he's not premenstrual".

[FleurduJardin]

Originally Posted by purplehawk

The proper name is the Democratic Party. Not the Democrat Party.

Yes, I did say the "Democratic candidate", and I never said the Democrat Party - and I was sure that people had criticized Bush for saying "Democratic" rather than "Democrat". People do say "I'm a Democrat" or "I'm a Republican" though, don't they?

But this is semantics. We're supposed to be discussing politics.

Flimsey Cauldron, I was for Edwards too, and at one point I was hoping that he'd make a comeback while the other two were bickering, but that was not to be. He may be a good choice as VP, but I'd rather he got something like Attorney General, and someone like Bill Richardson got the VP post - Richardson would bring in the Hispanic vote and his own international affairs knowledge (I remember him as US Ambassador to the UN, I was working there at the time. He was a better one than Negroponte later). I saw somewhere a list of women who could potentially be asked for that post. However, if the VP slot goes to a woman other than Hillary Clinton, I fear that wouldn't play well.

[WarriorEowyn]

1. Have you decided who you will (would) vote for?
I'm not America, but if I was... even though they're both substantially to the right of me, I'd vote for Obama (and that goes double or triple if McCain chooses Romney as his running mate). I've read The Audacity of Hope and he comes across as a genuinely sincere, decent person whose political positions are motivated more by what he thinks will work than the simple party line. He had a good sense of humour, is able to laugh at himself, and understands the issues, as well as how politics works and what things can be done to make government work better. He's someone who knows how to deal with issues like race and religion with sensitivity and understanding and I think that would help him bring more unity. And he understands that "cut taxes for the rich and ignore the economy" is not a productive economic policy.

2. Which issues are the most important to you? Health care? Iraq? The economy? Which candidate do you think is stronger on the issues that matter to you?
As I'm not American, foreign policy is #1. The fact that Obama's willing to talk to people he disagrees with, wants to leave Iraq without putting permanent bases in place, and isn't inclined to attack Iran are all positives over McCain. His pragmatism and willingness to listen to other points of view is also a plus - I can at least see the possibility of discussing new tactics with NATO for dealing with poppies in Afghanistan, as the current eradication policy is only making us more enemies.

There's also the fact that he wants to renegotiate NAFTA to improve labour standards, which is promising - although of course the US will want the deal to favour themselves so we'll have to keep on our toes.

Other issues that interest me, such as ending the embargo on Cuba and pursuing a just peace between Israel and Palestine, are probably not going to see any progress - both the Cuban expats and Israel have very powerful lobbies in the US and, by his platform, Obama is largely going along with them.

Issue #2 is probably poverty. He doesn't have as large a focus on this than he'd like but his economic policies are, based on historical precedent and economic working, going to be better for the poor than McCain's. I've posted the Democrat v. Republican economic anti-poverty stats on other threads - and the well-being of the lower and lower-middle classes has dropped substantially ever since economics took a rightward turn in the 1980s.

3. Who do you think would be the best VP pick for each candidate?
I'd rather like to see Edwards as Obama's VP - it would do a lot for my second priority - but he doesn't bring a great deal to the ticket: he only had a small segment of the working class on side. Hillary would bring her Democratic supporters, but would probably alienate independents - and I'm becoming convinced she would be a terrible VP. I don't know a lot about the other options.

For McCain, Romney seems logical - he will get respect on the economy because he's a successful businessman (so he knows how to make the economy work for businessmen, an awful lot THAT does for the average blue-collar worker - but a lot of people don't think about it that way), and he will bring the base with more enthusiasm. Both of those are things McCain needs. However, I can't stand Romney because I find him, strangely, both a radical (in his current positions) and a phoney (looking at his previous positions, and some blatantly disingenuous statements), so I'm hoping McCain doesn't pick him. If it wasn't for McCain's need to court the base, Giuliani seems like he would be a good fit with him.

4. How do you feel about the campaigns Obama and McCain have run so far?
McCain's has been a bit listless - he won the primary largely by process of elimination as the people leading him fell out for one reason or another. Obama's has been well managed in the financial arena (unlike McCain's) and has been well-run on the ground in terms of getting volunteers in place. He dealt with the first phase of the Rev. Wright controversy very well (I hugely admire that speech of his), but came out looking contradictory when Rev. Wright made dumping him something of a political necessity, and he shouldn't have left his church now - the statements by the other pastor weren't even controversial IMO.

Obama's campaign has also been conspicuously short on details in the speeches. I think that's part of the reason he lost the working class - people who are more affected by economic turns are more likely to want policy details and less likely to be distracted by high-sounding rhetoric. He needs to change that and make some strong policy arguments against McCain, not just the use the repeated phrase of "George Bush's third term". Show how and why his proposals will work and McCain's won't.

Originally Posted by FleurduJardin

However, if the VP slot goes to a woman other than Hillary Clinton, I fear that wouldn't play well.

I agree. Some political commentators are saying it would help Obama with Hillary supporters, but to me it smacks of tokenism. Obama supporters wouldn't think much of it if Hillary had won and decided to pick a random black guy as her VP.

Richardson sounds like a decent choice, someone with international affairs experience would help Obama. I can imagine the more unsavory right-wing pundits talking about the 'affirmative action ticket' already, though.

[Midnightsfire]

1. Have you decided who you will (would) vote for?

Obama.

2. Which issues are the most important to you? Health care? Iraq? The economy? Which candidate do you think is stronger on the issues that matter to you?

Currently, the economy.

3. Who do you think would be the best VP pick for each candidate?

I haven't given much thought to McCain's running mate.
I favor Bill Richardson or Chuck Hagel at the moment for Obama's running mate. (Clinton would be far too polarizing a figure to make a good VP choice. And that's just one of the problems with her.)

4. How do you feel about the campaigns Obama and McCain have run so far? What do you think they will need to do to secure the Presidency?

Obama could win this by sheer charisma alone.

McCain needs to learn how to debate publicly. The text of his last speech read well enough. (June 3rd) Hearing him deliver it however...my God (generic).
In a debate with Obama? It won't be pretty at all. (and I predict that McCain's temper will be revealed in all its unglory. You read it here first.)

[lanifiel]

http://www.bartleby.com/68/27/1727.html

The proper noun is the name of a member of a major American political party; the adjective Democratic is used in its official name, the Democratic party. Democrat as an adjective is still sometimes used by some twentieth-century Republicans as a campaign tool but was used with particular virulence by the late senator Joseph R. McCarthy of Wisconsin, a Republican who sought by repeatedly calling it the Democrat party to deny it any possible benefit of the suggestion that it might also be democratic. Other nations also have political parties with the words Democrat and Democratic in their names. The uncapitalized words democrat and democratic have to do with believers in and supporters of government based on majority rule, the principles of equal rights, and the representative procedures developed to permit these principles to operate. Capitalize only the proper noun and the adjective when it refers to the Democratic party.

Enough.

[ComicBookWorm]

1. Have you decided who you will (would) vote for?

Well I'm decidedly liberal and would only vote for a Democrat. But I'm an thrilled beyond words that Obama has won the nomination.

2. Which issues are the most important to you? Health care? Iraq? The economy? Which candidate do you think is stronger on the issues that matter to you?

Healthcare, economy, gasoline prices and energy policy in general, Iraq, and global warming. I think Obama has exactly the right policies for these problems, because he actually acknowledges that there are problems that need addressing by government (instead of hoping that private sector will eventually jump in) and he has plans to do something about them.

3. Who do you think would be the best VP pick for each candidate?

I think that John Edwards would help with the rural vote and he connects well with working class voters. Richardson would help with the Latino vote and has foreign policy experience. I know that Clinton would bring some disenchanted supporters along with her, but IMO she has the enormous baggage of her husband, who will and say what he damn pleases when he wants to. I don't that that anyone will be able to keep him on the reservation. So, I think he will get in the way of Obama's policies. And based on her speech tonight, Hillary is not exactly the conciliatory type either, so I don't see her being a supportive Veep.

I really don't care who McCain picks, but I think it might be Huckabee. He might do it to shore up the religious conservatives, but it will terrify Independents.

4. How do you feel about the campaigns Obama and McCain have run so far? What do you think they will need to do to secure the Presidency?

McCain has sounded like a typical Republican, and I haven't seen any new ideas from him. I think that Obama has run a brilliant campaign for someone who I didn't think had a ghost of a chance at first.

I think that Obama needs to address those silly Muslim fears. He also needs to to keep hammering on his policies. Poll after poll show that people seem to want the typical Democratic policies as opposed to the Republican ineffective private sector solutions. He will also have to deal effectively with the inevitable smears that will be hurled at him.

McCain would have to distance himself from Bush and show some of the centrist and independent positions he once seemed to have. I think he really is a conservative and won't be able to do that.

[lindaluna]

Originally Posted by ComicBookWorm

I think that Obama needs to address those silly Muslim fears.

What else can he do ? Drop trou' and prove he's uncircumsized ? Get a Jesus Tattoo ?

Originally Posted by FleurduJardin

However, if the VP slot goes to a woman other than Hillary Clinton, I fear that wouldn't play well.

I agree a Clinton-lite VP could be seen as insulting, however, I heard a rumor that if Barack puts a man on the ticket, McCain might go with a woman ...

It may be that Clinton's legacy is that now there have to be bi-gender tickets.

[rigdoctorbri]

1. Have you decided who you will (would) vote for?

Pretty much. I am in favor of John McCain, but I am looking forward to the debates.

2. Which issues are the most important to you? Health care? Iraq? The economy? Which candidate do you think is stronger on the issues that matter to you?

National Security, while preserving Liberty. I do not think the Democratic Stance on National Security is in the best interests of the country. John McCain knows how important Liberty is, because he has fought for it. I believe he can balance those two problems better.

On Healthcare, I am more in favor of Hillary's plan than anyone's, so should she become the running mate for Obama, my vote may come down to a coin flip.

On Economy, Republicans tend to have a better track record. Democrats like to spend on things that cause temporary relief for long-term problems. The Republican philosophy is to pour money into larger projects that produce better conditions overall. Many blame Bush for the economy, but I have yet to read or hear any economist refute what I have echoed here many times: The state of the economy today is based upon the foundations laid by The Presidency two terms prior. It takes that long for it all to catch up to us.

3. Who do you think would be the best VP pick for each candidate?

For John McCain I would take Mitt Romney, though I don't think he would accept it. John McCain is not a financial genius, and Mitt Romney has proven he can run businesses. The problem with this election is that no candidate has ever been a Governor. Senators lobby, while Governors run things.

As for Barack Obama, I would pick John Edwards or Hillary Clinton. From a strategic stance, I would take John Edwards because he might be able to draw the fence sitters. Hillary is too far left. From experience in Washington, I would take Hillary. She knows the Hill, and The Hill knows her. I also support her Healthcare ideas.

4. How do you feel about the campaigns Obama and McCain have run so far? What do you think they will need to do to secure the Presidency?

This is a toughy, but I would say that the most impressive has been John McCain's. Several months ago, most were saying that John McCain was done. Some of his less faithful staff bolted, his funding was drying up, and yet he stuck with it. He didn't give up, and took control of his race. He assessed the situation and made the changes that needed to be made to come back and win the Nomination.

Obama and Clinton both ran the toughest tooth and nails fight I have ever seen. I have never seen such determination in two people. My hat's off to both. But, what disenchanted me, was the mudslinging. More often than not, these two would spend more time telling us what was wrong with the other candidate, than what was right with themselves. But, I guess they proved that mathematics is correct, and two negatives make a positive.