Algebra taught in Hogwarts?

[greeneyedfairy]

Since Hogwarts is obviously not a normal school I have been wondering would they be teaching subjects that are normal to us. For instance Algebra, Biology, and Literature? History I would understand if they didn't teach because after all they have their own history to teach and our history wouldn't be such a big deal to them.
I just can't think of a world that would exist without one single person having the knowledge of simple things that are very needed. It's not like they students at Hogwarts would just go home at go to school where they would teach those things.

[L1keAstaRRxx]

Originally Posted by greeneyedfairy

Since Hogwarts is obviously not a normal school I have been wondering would they be teaching subjects that are normal to us. For instance Algebra, Biology, and Literature? History I would understand if they didn't teach because after all they have their own history to teach and our history wouldn't be such a big deal to them.
I just can't think of a world that would exist without one single person having the knowledge of simple things that are very needed. It's not like they students at Hogwarts would just go home at go to school where they would teach those things.

It has been said by JKR that Hogwarts students were not required to go to muggle schools prior to attending Hogwarts. And you're right, I couldn't imagine a world where you didn't need the knowledge of simple things. Therefore, I assume that these children were taught things such as reading and simple math at home, by their parents.

[Montse]

Well, I dont really think so. I suppose they covered such stuff perhaps at muggle studies. But not as a subject. Just mention of those subjects as topics muggles learn. Most of the subjects at Hogwarts were magic related , weren´t they?

[lil_snuffles]

I think most studies like algebra and english are taught either in Muggle Studies or any kind of homeschooling that their parents put them in.

[CountWestwest]

I think wizards and witches don't study subjects like algebra, chemistry, or physics etc... They are more interested in "effects" rather than "causes". Muggles needed to know the "causes" in order to create thru science the wonders that wizards take for granted, like flying, treatments for broken bones etc... Wizards can bypass "causes" altogether and concentrate on better "effects".

[Rush]

All children would need some sort of background in order to figure out daily calculations in their head as well as reading and writing.

I assume that the child's parents would be responsible for teaching them otherwise all the subjects would be useless if the child is unable to read and write.

[Miss_Gaunt]

Originally Posted by L1keAstaRRxx

It has been said by JKR that Hogwarts students were not required to go to muggle schools prior to attending Hogwarts. And you're right, I couldn't imagine a world where you didn't need the knowledge of simple things. Therefore, I assume that these children were taught things such as reading and simple math at home, by their parents.

Yeah, I think young witches and wizards would have to be taught how to read/write and count before going to Hogwarts, whether they chose to go to Muggle schools or not
I don't think any of the Sciences, or subjects like that, are taught at Hogwarts though, they probably only focus on the subjects we've seen in the books, like Charms, DADA, Transfiguration, Potions etc.
Its possible that they'd look at the subjects Muggles study in Muggle Studies though, but they wouldn't be taught them in depth. After all, if they're going to live in the wizarding world, knowledge of spells and potions would be more useful than any Muggle subject.

[greeneyedfairy]

Originally Posted by L1keAstaRRxx

It has been said by JKR that Hogwarts students were not required to go to muggle schools prior to attending Hogwarts. And you're right, I couldn't imagine a world where you didn't need the knowledge of simple things. Therefore, I assume that these children were taught things such as reading and simple math at home, by their parents.

So around the age of 11 they should already know how to read, write, and have the knowledge of simple math. So basically they have a knowledge of a fifth grader unless of course they pick up a few things by themselves. It just makes me wonder is magic the only thing they learn about. I know they are wizards and witches but they are human too and I believe that to be able to grow as a community you must have a lot more knowledge to be considered educated.

[Anhelda]

Originally Posted by CountWestwest

I think wizards and witches don't study subjects like algebra, chemistry, or physics etc... They are more interested in "effects" rather than "causes". Muggles needed to know the "causes" in order to create thru science the wonders that wizards take for granted, like flying, treatments for broken bones etc... Wizards can bypass "causes" altogether and concentrate on better "effects".

I think this is one of the most astute observations about magic ed I've ever come across. It's so true--wizards don't need to know how things happen, because they all happen "by magic" so the magical theory is more important than the "laws" of physics, math, chemistry, etc. Muggles, on the other hand, have to work within those laws in order to understand enough to further technology and science. Well considered, Count Westwest!

[leah49]

The students do have the choice to go to a Muggle school before age eleven, otherwise they are homeschooled. They have to know how to read and do basic math before attending Hogwarts otherwise they would get very behind in their studies. As for Algebra, I doubt they know it. Here in the States we don't have the chance to learn Algebra until middle school and that usually starts at age eleven.

[DeathlyH]

We hear in detail about the students' schedules at Hogwarts. There's never any mention about any sort of math, literature, biology etc. If they did take those classes, I'm sure we would have heard about them. Nothing that Jo has said really supports it, so I would find this pretty unlikely. I agree with what someone said earlier, witches and wizards are probably taught some basic things by their parents at home.

[LBuccalo]

I think most magical children are educated at home, by their parents. Some may go off to school, but they only go until Hogwarts (obviously). Although we see alot of our schooling to be completely necessary in our world, we have to remember they are in a completely different world where other things are much more important than Algebra or Biology. They probably only need a basic knowledge to go on to Hogwarts.

[PrivetHedge]

I suspect that very few witches and wizards have an understanding of algebra and other areas of higher math. If they did, Snape's logic puzzle in TPS would have been a far less effective obstacle.

[arithmancer]

As a mathematician, I find it unthinkable that no one in the wizard world knows any higher math. I have therefore decided that it is probably part of the curriculum for Arithmancy, an elective class offered in years 3-5 and at the NEWT level for qualified students.

[LBuccalo]

Originally Posted by zgirnius

As a mathematician, I find it unthinkable that no one in the wizard world knows any higher math. I have therefore decided that it is probably part of the curriculum for Arithmancy, an elective class offered in years 3-5 and at the NEWT level for qualified students

I think that is actually pretty smart. I think you may be on to something. I read a fanfic awhile ago that presented Arithmancy as a high level of math that applied to the magical world. So I definitely agree on that point. I can't believe I forgot about that...well yeah I sort of can

[Valarya]

Originally Posted by zgirnius

As a mathematician, I find it unthinkable that no one in the wizard world knows any higher math. I have therefore decided that it is probably part of the curriculum for Arithmancy, an elective class offered in years 3-5 and at the NEWT level for qualified students.

I love this answer. Regardless of needing to know such maths as Calculus or Trig, wizards still construct things and most importantly, the wizarding world has money. Surely some magical folks know a thing or two about accounting, decimals, fractions, etc.

It would also seem pretty strange if the muggle-born children had a larger knowledge base of math and reading than the wizard world children. Are every wizarding parents certified to teach reading skills? Surely there are SOME requirements before entering Hogwarts.

[PrivetHedge]

Originally Posted by zgirnius

As a mathematician, I find it unthinkable that no one in the wizard world knows any higher math. I have therefore decided that it is probably part of the curriculum for Arithmancy, an elective class offered in years 3-5 and at the NEWT level for qualified students.

Originally Posted by LBuccalo

I think that is actually pretty smart. I think you may be on to something. I read a fanfic awhile ago that presented Arithmancy as a high level of math that applied to the magical world. So I definitely agree on that point. I can't believe I forgot about that...well yeah I sort of can

Not many people in the real world know or understand higher math, especially as it relates to logical reasoning. Why would the wizarding population be even as good?

I'm not saying that nobody in the wizarding world understands higher math. Snape clearly did. Hermione did. Either Voldemort did or he used Quirrell's brains (Q. was referred to as having a brilliant mind (and experience in Muggle Studies)). I imagine Dumbledore did. I expect some Muggleborns probably are encouraged by their families to study at the university level (in the Muggle world) after finishing Hogwarts, especially if they're going to keep one foot in the Muggle world, so they would need to keep up in some subjects (above the 11 year old level).


As to arithmancy...

It's hard to say with so few specific indications of what JKR thinks arithmancy is. There are some references to a hierarchy of magically powerful numbers, and to numerology (numerology as a theory).

I would say that, as it relates to arithmancy, math describes the circumstances of certain magical effects and relationships, or assigns significance to them. There is no indication that math (and the theorems that govern math) can be used to derive consistent cause-and-effect rules to those effects and relationships.

Similarly, the observed behavior of heavenly bodies (basic astronomy) can be associated with coincidental events, themes and behavioral traits - providing a rationale for predicting future events (astrology). These astrological prognostications have no demonstrable scientific relationship to the astronomical events, however, and are made irrespective of an understanding of the dynamics of the astronomical behavior.

[arithmancer]

Originally Posted by PrivetHedge

Similarly, the observed behavior of heavenly bodies (basic astronomy) can be associated with coincidental events, themes and behavioral traits - providing a rationale for predicting future events (astrology). These astrological prognostications have no demonstrable scientific relationship to the astronomical events, however, and are made irrespective of an understanding of the dynamics of the astronomical behavior.

This is actually a powerful additional argument for higher math in the wizard world. (And I agree that, just as in Real Life, only a select few would, or would need to, know my beloved subject... ) Math is the language of astronomy in Muggledom, it (in the form of celestial mechanics, etc.) is how we predict significant astronomical (and therefore astrological) events. I would imagine the same is true of Wizards.

I tend to think, in Arithmancy, math plays a similar role. If numbers and their combinations matter in magic, then math is the natural way to describe and understand them.

[Voldemorts8thHorcrux]

Originally Posted by lil_snuffles

I think most studies like algebra and english are taught either in Muggle Studies or any kind of homeschooling that their parents put them in.

I don't really think they would be taught that in muggle studies, maybe just a basic idea, but not much.

[TheInvisibleF]

Originally Posted by Anhelda

I think this is one of the most astute observations about magic ed I've ever come across. It's so true--wizards don't need to know how things happen, because they all happen "by magic" so the magical theory is more important than the "laws" of physics, math, chemistry, etc. Muggles, on the other hand, have to work within those laws in order to understand enough to further technology and science. Well considered, Count Westwest!

But the students in Hogwarts don't just learn how to do things they learn why as well. Otherwise it would just be moving the wand in the right way and learning off the right words. Why would they have written papers in their exams? And when Harry is having problems learning Accio Hermione decides he would be able to master it if he learnt the theory. In schoo, we learn the causes of our world but they learn the causes of things in their world.

I believe Rowling has said that magical children are taught by their parents at home before they go to Hogwarts. There is no need to go to muggle school. I may be making this up in my head but I am sure it is mentioned that they have to use maths in Astronomy in first year. They wouldn't be able to jump to that if they dan't learnt the basics somewhere.