Severus Snape: Character Analysis v.9

[Pearl_Took]

Originally Posted by wickedwickedboy

Why do you think he bothered to ask Snape at all in that moment?

I read it as being typical of Voldemort's sadism! I think Voldemort is perfectly well aware, among other things, of how much Draco is disturbed by Charity's revolving body and her likely fate. It's all part of drawing out the Malfoys' torment, as well as poor Charity's.

Snape, of course, has no option but to play along with this vicious game and look totally unbothered.

Was Snape's response meaningful in some way?

I dunno. Should we see it as such? He could hardly reply: "Why, no, Tom! I have absolutely no idea who this is."

I think it was horrible for him, to have to pretend not to care that Voldemort was enjoying tormenting and then killing her. (Obviously it was more horrible for poor Charity herself though. A very chilling scene indeed, this. )

But Snape's true colours as a double agent were confirmed for me by his words to Dumbledore in The Prince's Tale, when Dumbledore asks him how many men and women he has seen die and he replies: "lately, only those I could not save."

Of course, he said that before Charity's murder ... but how very applicable those words are!

And to me, they proved how much he had changed since the days when he really was one of Voldemort's genuine Death Eaters.

[RemusLupinFan]

Originally Posted by wickedwickedboy

"Do you recognize our guest, Severus?"

He was speaking about Charity Burbage, and of course as they worked together Snape would recognize her. I read that and it suddenly seemed utterly meaningless for Voldemort to have asked that. Snape merely answers "Ah yes". And then Voldemort goes on to speak with Draco. Why do you think he bothered to ask Snape at all in that moment? Was Snape's response meaningful in some way?

I thought Voldemort might have been trying to gauge Snape's reaction at seeing a colleague of his being in danger. I think Voldemort didn't trust Snape completely, so he may have been trying to trick Snape into exposing himself with an unguarded reaction to Burbage's fate.

[Pearl_Took]

Originally Posted by RemusLupinFan

I thought Voldemort might have been trying to gauge Snape's reaction at seeing a colleague of his being in danger. I think Voldemort didn't trust Snape completely, so he may have been trying to trick Snape into exposing himself with an unguarded reaction to Burbage's fate.

All too plausible.

I'm sure Voldemort put Snape through these kinds of tests of loyalty a lot. I'm sure he never trusted him 100% ...

... and of course he was quite right not to.

[The_Green_Woods]

Originally Posted by wickedwickedboy

Why do you think he bothered to ask Snape at all in that moment? Was Snape's response meaningful in some way?

I suppose Voldemort was being as evil as he could; I think he asks Snape as if to say that "Snape, you got one Professor. I've got another; both muggle loving fools and her life would go the same way as his." Poor Charity. She must have felt so terrified when she begs Snape, knowing that he killed Dumbeldore, pleading with the only familiar face in that terrible room, waiting for her death hanging upside down IMO.

Snape's response was not as much meaningful as it was helpless. He had just killed on Professor and now he was to watch the murder of another, smirking and laughing, knowing that he could not do a thing about it, because of the larger picture IMO.

I simply wonder at his control, when he is with Voldemort and the other DEs. He is amazing, so much so that no one suspects him expect Bella. The others seem to be more jealous than suspicious IMO.

Wonder why she suspected him and how she became suspicious of him in the first place, when she was in Azkaban for 13 years and when Voldemort so trusted Snape?

[Pearl_Took]

Originally Posted by The_Green_Woods

Wonder why she suspected him and how she became suspicious of him in the first place, when she was in Azkaban for 13 years and when Voldemort so trusted Snape?

Because Snape escaped Azkaban. And got a teaching job at Hogwarts. Right in Dumbledore's pocket. (While she, poor dear, languished in Azkaban out of loyalty to her beloved Dark Lord! Cue violins.)

Oh yeah, and he hadn't killed Harry.

Bella really is as subtle as a brick, isn't she?

[The_Green_Woods]

Originally Posted by Pearl_Took

Because Snape escaped Azkaban.

I agree. What about Lucius, though? That guy escaped Azkaban as well and so did Rookwood. (And McNair, Avery and Mulciber too? Or were they part of the 13 DEs who broke out of Azkaban?)

And got a teaching job at Hogwarts. Right in Dumbledore's pocket.

This could be more the reason I think.

(While she, poor dear, languished in Azkaban out of loyalty to her beloved Dark Lord! Cue violins.)

Like Snape said, "Yes, indeed, most admirable,' Snape said in a bored voice. 'Of course you weren't a lot of use to him in prison, but the gesture was undoubtedly fine..." (HBP - Spinner's End

Oh yeah, and he hadn't killed Harry.

DUH!

Bella really is as subtle as a brick, isn't she?

And Bella is jealous as well! I think she was jealous of Snape because Snape probably managed to give a lot of useless information that Dumbeldore would have asked him to give Voldmeort about his 16 years of "spying" on the Old Fool! IMO

What she did not realise was that Voldemort had not trusted Snape, because he had given Snape the test as he did to Draco, asking both of them to prove their loyalty to him. For Draco it was a punishment as well, and for Snape it was the TEST! To kill Dumbeldore! That was why I think he knew about the plan that Voldmeort had not told anyone else. Snape said that "I think he intends me to do it in the end." That was the test; Snape's loyalty was not accepted at that time, but would be when he passed his test and killed Dumbeldore IMO.

Narcissa need not have worried so much, because Voldemort I think merely meant to frighten her, by giving Draco the job. But it was Snape he was watching out for, not Draco IMO.

[arithmancer]

Originally Posted by The_Green_Woods

Snape's response was not as much meaningful as it was helpless. He had just killed on Professor and now he was to watch the murder of another, smirking and laughing, knowing that he could not do a thing about it, because of the larger picture IMO.

As a nitpick, Snape is mostly silent in this part of the scene, and neither laughs nor smirks. His only words are the response "Ah, yes," to the question of whether he knows her, and his face is thereafter described as "impassive".

It is not just the larger picture that prevents him from doing anything, I would say. As a practical matter, I do not believe he is able to rescue Charity. Even if he were to sacrifice his own life and Albus's plan in the attempt, I believe it could only have resulted in the deaths of both Charity and Severus. He would have been opposed by a room full of Death Eaters, some, like Bella and Dolohov, known to have impressive duelling skills, not to mention Lord Voldemort himself.

[Pearl_Took]

Originally Posted by The_Green_Woods

I agree. What about Lucius, though? That guy escaped Azkaban as well and so did Rookwood. (And McNair, Avery and Mulciber too? Or were they part of the 13 DEs who broke out of Azkaban?)

I can't remember all the details about all the DEs. But you raise a good point about Lucius!!! But he, of course, had already proved his loyalty ahead of Severus by coming to the graveyard ahead of him.

Like Snape said, "Yes, indeed, most admirable,' Snape said in a bored voice. 'Of course you weren't a lot of use to him in prison, but the gesture was undoubtedly fine..." (HBP - Spinner's End

LOL. He's just so wicked to Bella here. I love it.

And Bella is jealous as well! I think she was jealous of Snape because Snape probably managed to give a lot of useless information that Dumbeldore would have asked him to give Voldmeort about his 16 years of "spying" on the Old Fool! IMO

Oh, good point. Jealousy was definitely a thing with Bella.

What she did not realise was that Voldemort had not trusted Snape, because he had given Snape the test as he did to Draco, asking both of them to prove their loyalty to him. For Draco it was a punishment as well, and for Snape it was the TEST! To kill Dumbeldore! That was why I think he knew about the plan that Voldmeort had not told anyone else. Snape said that "I think he intends me to do it in the end." That was the test; Snape's loyalty was not accepted at that time, but would be when he passed his test and killed Dumbeldore IMO.

Yes, exactly.

Originally Posted by zgirnius

It is not just the larger picture that prevents him from doing anything, I would say. As a practical matter, I do not believe he is able to rescue Charity. Even if he were to sacrifice his own life and Albus's plan in the attempt, I believe it could only have resulted in the deaths of both Charity and Severus. He would have been opposed by a room full of Death Eaters, some, like Bella and Dolohov, known to have impressive duelling skills, not to mention Lord Voldemort himself.

Unquestionably that was the case. I was never under any illusion that he could have saved Charity, under those circumstances.

[Drusilla]

I'd say this is probably where his skills at Occlumency were very useful, indeed (on this, and occasions like this). It's also probably worth remembering that Bellatrix, the only Death Eater to openly question his loyalty was also an Occlumens (if she was good enough to teach Draco, she was probably good at it).

[The_Green_Woods]

It is interesting that the 2 sisters viewed Snape so differently. Narcissa came to Spinner's End wanting Snape's help and sure she would get it, but Bellatrix dislikes Snape, looking down on him and suspicious about him for so many reasons, starting from his living in Spinner's End to his not being a true death eater IMO.

While Snape ends up helping Narcissa, it is Bellatrix who is right about him all along. For he was not a death eater at all IMO.

[Bscorp]

Originally Posted by zgirnius

As a nitpick, Snape is mostly silent in this part of the scene, and neither laughs nor smirks. His only words are the response "Ah, yes," to the question of whether he knows her, and his face is thereafter described as "impassive".

This is not a nitpicking point at all. Snape is NOT smirking, or reacting in anyway similar to the rest of the room. To me this speaks volumes. He does not feign to enjoy- or fear this situation. He observes and appears "impassive" that is all he can do there. He makes direct eye contact with the victim, but if Snape were even to betray the slightest hint of sympathy - let alone DO anything at all- in front of Voldemort- his loyalty and the plan would be at risk of exposure.

Rowling uses this scene very well IMO to show how dangerous the tightrope is that Snape is walking in order to do his job. She shows us -moments later- as Voldemort literally takes a look INTO Snape's mind to see the memory of Mundungus- that Snape is under constant threat of exposure. We see that just the slightest quiver of any Voldy's DE is instantly read by Voldemort (ex: Luscius's hesitation- met by Narcissa's grip under the table.)

This is just a glimpse that JKR allows me to understand how and why Snape works the way he does. The later as I read Snape say to DD, he witnesses only those deaths of whom he could not save- i thought back to this moment. It says that - though he wants to save whom he can- He has been in the position of powerlessness and "witnessing" horrible events- in order to keep his cover- all this time as a spy for Dumbledore.

[RemusLupinFan]

Originally Posted by zgirnius

It is not just the larger picture that prevents him from doing anything, I would say. As a practical matter, I do not believe he is able to rescue Charity. Even if he were to sacrifice his own life and Albus's plan in the attempt, I believe it could only have resulted in the deaths of both Charity and Severus.

Definitely. Had Snape given any indication that he was upset, or had he tried to do anything to intervene, he would have blown his cover and probably ruined Dumbledore's plan. Though I'm sure Snape did not want to see Charity die, he really was locked into a position where he could do nothing, or risk losing everything he and others worked on for so long. It must have been very hard for him to maintain his impassivity in that situation, knowing he couldn't do anything to stop Charity's imminent death.

[arithmancer]

Originally Posted by RemusLupinFan

Definitely. Had Snape given any indication that he was upset, or had he tried to do anything to intervene, he would have blown his cover and probably ruined Dumbledore's plan. Though I'm sure Snape did not want to see Charity die, he really was locked into a position where he could do nothing, or risk losing everything he and others worked on for so long. It must have been very hard for him to maintain his impassivity in that situation, knowing he couldn't do anything to stop Charity's imminent death.

I think the scene is written to emphasize the importance of Snape's cover to Albus' plans, either on a second read, or for first-time readers who though there was more to HBP than met the eye. Charity's last words, addressed at Snape, are the same as Albus's last words to Snape, just before Snape killed him.

"Severus, please".

[PureBloodGirl]

I have a question, who is Charity? Sorry I have not read the HP books in a couple of months.

[arithmancer]

Originally Posted by PureBloodGirl

I have a question, who is Charity? Sorry I have not read the HP books in a couple of months.

Charity Burbage, who we learn in the first chapter of DH was the Muggle Studies teacher at Hogwarts. She has been captured, and is murdered by Voldemort right in front of Snape and the other DEs in that chapter, and then Voldemort feeds her to Nagini. *shudder*

[DeathlyH]

Originally Posted by zgirnius

I think the scene is written to emphasize the importance of Snape's cover to Albus' plans, either on a second read, or for first-time readers who though there was more to HBP than met the eye. Charity's last words, addressed at Snape, are the same as Albus's last words to Snape, just before Snape killed him.

"Severus, please".

Except that Dumbledore was pleading with Severus to go along and kill him (which he does), and Charity was pleading with him to stop Voldemort from killing her (which he doesn't). I know it was necessary to the master plan for him to let both of them die. I'm just pointing out that Snape doesn't seem to mind killing/letting people die, even when those people are on his side.

[kittling]

Originally Posted by DeathlyH

I'm just pointing out that Snape doesn't seem to mind killing/letting people die, even when those people are on his side.

To me the point is not that he let Charity die, but that he had no choice but to do so.

Also it is hard to say whether or no Snape actually minded doing so because he took very little part in Charity's death; he did not mock or jear or take delight in it, niether did he show any signs of distress or horror - so how can we say judging by this scene alone how he felt about it? however if we look at his conversation with Dumbledore in DH/TPT about not standing by and watching those he can save die - the implication is that he does not enjoy it and certainly does mind letting people die.

[DeathlyH]

Originally Posted by kittling

however if we look at his conversation with Dumbledore in DH/TPT about not standing by and watching those he can save die - the implication is that he does not enjoy it and certainly does mind letting people die.

He certainly seems willing to have Sirius and Lupin kissed by the dementors (for a completely silly reason, too). They would get their sould sucked out, not killed, but it's the same effect really. Not only does he not try to save Sirius and Remus from being kissed when he can, he does the opposite. It seems to me like if Snape dislikes the person who he can save, he wouldn't (with Harry as the exception because of his promise to Dumbledore).

[kittling]

Originally Posted by DeathlyH

He certainly seems willing to have Sirius and Lupin kissed by the dementors (for a completely silly reason, too). They would get their sould sucked out, not killed, but it's the same effect really. Not only does he not try to save Sirius and Remus from being kissed when he can, he does the opposite. It seems to me like if Snape dislikes the person who he can save, he wouldn't (with Harry as the exception because of his promise to Dumbledore).

At that point he firmly believes, as do al the authorities, that Sirius is one of the most notorious mass murders ever - doesn't sound like a silly reason to me

And that Lupin has been aiding him in his attempt to kill Harry - again doesn't sound like a silly reason to me

[wickedwickedboy]

Originally Posted by DeathlyH

He certainly seems willing to have Sirius and Lupin kissed by the dementors (for a completely silly reason, too). They would get their sould sucked out, not killed, but it's the same effect really. Not only does he not try to save Sirius and Remus from being kissed when he can, he does the opposite. It seems to me like if Snape dislikes the person who he can save, he wouldn't (with Harry as the exception because of his promise to Dumbledore).

I think it is a mentality thing as well. Some people can be spies and others cannot - that includes being certain types of spies as well, imo. JKR showed Draco in that scene as a person who would make an awful spy . He fell off his seat and made quite a display when Burbage was killed and it was clear that his mentality (for whatever reason) was not acceptive of watching people die; he tried and failed. There are others who would be even worse in that they could not have sat by and watched at all without doing something to try and stop it, no matter what the cost - meaning they simply could not spy and a reaction such as Draco's would not have been enough. I think of the trio, Neville, Sirius and like minded people as the type who would blow their cover and even allow themselves to be killed, before allowing a perceived innocent to die before their eyes. So I think it just bears on the mentality of the person; natural or learned.

We have only the fact that Snape was a Death Eater prior to switching sides as any basis for his mental ability to act as a spy. When he was a Death Eater, he would have celebrated Burbage's death (like most of the other Death Eaters there did) and so he'd experienced it from the other side in the past for a long while. That would have built some immunity into his mentality I would imagine which he could call upon when watching a scene like that of Charity. Apart from that, we can only guess as to why he was able to view without acting/reacting, imo. Likely there are character based reasons; attributes he had that assisted in that regard.