The All-Inclusive HBP Thread, v.12

[phoenix88]

Originally Posted by cgold

Do you know if they're planning to put up a transcript and if not, can you tell me what she said about Rupert/Ron? Did Kristin write a review?

Cheers

She didn't write a formal review but she did answer questions.
This is what she said about rupert:

I thought Rupert Grint was FANTASTIC in this movie, and I've never been a fan of his interpretation of Ron. He really had some great material to work with, script-wise, and I really hope they keep everything that we saw in the movie, Ron-wise.

[cgold]

Originally Posted by phoenix88

She didn't write a formal review but she did answer questions.
This is what she said about rupert:

Thanks for this. Rupert and Rickman are my two favourite actors and I strongly feel that as long as they have meaty roles there's no way I personally won't find this film fantastic. I hope there are no major edits that exclude scenes with these two actors that were included during the initial review.

Cheers

[MasterOfDeath]

I'm wondering if Dumbledore's cryptic lines about death like "It is the unknown we fear when we look upon death and darkness, nothing more." are in the film.

[meesha1971]

Originally Posted by cgold

Do you know if they're planning to put up a transcript and if not, can you tell me what she said about Rupert/Ron? Did Kristin write a review?

Cheers

She didn't write a review, but Eric wrote the review that was posted on Mugglenet. They did a podcast for Hogwarts Radio together - no transcript at the moment, but there will probably be one as some point. And she said Rupert was FANTASTIC in HBP. That seems to be fairly consistent across the board - it seems that the Ron/Hermione stuff in HBP is great.

Originally Posted by MasterOfDeath

I'm wondering if Dumbledore's cryptic lines about death like "It is the unknown we fear when we look upon death and darkness, nothing more." are in the film.

That's a good question. Those are some of Dumbledore's best lines. I hope they include them.

[Windwalker]

Hello all...not sure if anyone cares about this as much as I do but I messaged one of the reviewers who saw the HBP screening over at IMDB and he confirmed no Dobby or Kreacher. I have my fingers crossed--admittedly not knowing much about the filming process--that there could be a quick touch-up scene involving Dan and they're CG'd in, but I'm not too hopefull....

[eaglestreasure]

Originally Posted by MasterOfDeath

I'm wondering if Dumbledore's cryptic lines about death like "It is the unknown we fear when we look upon death and darkness, nothing more." are in the film.

I definitely hope so. I mean, what would be the film without Dumbledore's awesomely wiser than anyone quotes?

You've gotta admit, if they don't have it, people will be unhappy.

Darn, I wish they hadn't moved the date of the movie, or we'd know soon! I especially hope that the Unknown Death We Fear quote thingy is in there. That's one of my favorites.

[Severely Snapped]

Originally Posted by lcbaseball22

Well no, I wouldn't expect most of the audience to jump but (if handled well) I would expect about 10-15% of the audience to be shocked by this revelation. HP Book readers consist of about 60% of the film audience and then probably a third or so of the remaining audience (the movie fans) have yet to be spoiled. I know a good amount myself and I'm sure if you asked around you would find quite a few as well

Sadly, your right...a good majority have been spoiled, so it is no longer of the same magnitude as a "Luke, I am your father" plot twist

It's funny you're using the "Luke, I am your father" comparison, lc, because I was thinking about that just last night. I am not a Star Wars fan by any stretch; I've watched a rental of the first movie ONCE (and then only because my husband made me! ), never watched any of the films in the theater, didn't know diddly about it...yet I knew that spoiler within days of its hitting the big screen. 'Cuz...who didn't, right?

And Bscorp is correct: "Snape Kills Dumbledore" has achieved that same kind of iconic status. It was everywhere, to the point where the sentence itself became an internet catch-phrase for "spoiler." Hell, I've seen it on a T-shirt with other infamous TV and film spoilers, from "Kristin shot JR" to "Rosebud is a sled." So I think there is a large number of people - even people who don't know HP at all, who don't read the books or watch the films, people who couldn't pick Snape and/or Dumbledore out of a frickin' police lineup - who know those words, even if the words have no real meaning for them, even if they don't know squat about the characters or the context or anything else.

(Case in point: I was talking about the HBP film with my sister on Labor Day, and my sister-in-law, who knows nothing about Harry Potter and doesn't want to, jumped in with, "Oh, is this the one where Snape kills Dumbledore?" I just stared at her, mouth agape. I mean, come on! This is a woman who only uses the Internet to buy useless junk on e-Bay! )

So...yeah. I think this is the biggest reason they didn't get the huge "OMG!" reaction from the test film audience. And, sadly, I don't think they're going to get it, except from (as lc said) a small minority of the audience.

BUT - that doesn't necessarily mean that the film audience won't be wondering about Snape, or get the subtle ambiguities that are in place:

Spoiler: show

i.e., the "shush" scene, or the mysterious DD/Snape meeting pre-cave.

They may go in to the film knowing what Snape does at the top of that tower, but in watching the scenes leading up to it, some of them may - just as we did in all our endless discussions and debates and re-reads - question why he does it. Others, of course, will just take it at face value, while many, quite frankly, won't give a toot either way. In any case, they'll still have fun with the ultimate twist when it comes in DH. I know "The Prince's Tale" revelations were a blast for the doubters, but trust me when I say they were extremely enjoyable from a Snape-supporter's POV as well!

[Bscorp]

Originally Posted by Severely Snapped

(Case in point: I was talking about the HBP film with my sister on Labor Day, and my sister-in-law, who knows nothing about Harry Potter and doesn't want to, jumped in with, "Oh, is this the one where Snape kills Dumbledore?" I just stared at her, mouth agape. I mean, come on! This is a woman who only uses the Internet to buy useless junk on e-Bay! )

That kind of thing is exactly my point. My brother is an older guy who doesn't keep up at all and doesn't surf the net- but he knows "Snape kills Dumbledore!" It is a cultural meme. Especially among younger people.

That is not to say -of course- there aren't those who don't know and they're fun should not be spoiled but my point only is that by the time this movie rolls out- most of the audience will know and we can't really gauge the over all effectiveness of that scene by overall audience reaction. That's all.

[Rachezee]

Originally Posted by MasterOfDeath

I'm wondering if Dumbledore's cryptic lines about death like "It is the unknown we fear when we look upon death and darkness, nothing more." are in the film.

I am pretty sure it is not in the film.

I love that line too

[Fleur du mal]

Originally Posted by Bscorp

That kind of thing is exactly my point. My brother is an older guy who doesn't keep up at all and doesn't surf the net- but he knows "Snape kills Dumbledore!" It is a cultural meme. Especially among younger people.

That's the thing. Among the younger people who actually go to watch a HP movie, too, it's pretty much common knowledge (imagine it was a question on Who Wants To Be A Millionaire - it'd be one of those on the lower dollar ranks, an 8000$ or so, "Who killed the popular wizard Albus Dumbledore? A) Harry Potter, B) Gandalf the Grey, C) Severus Snape, or D) Lord Voldemort-"
And with all the 'younger' ones in the know, many, many 'older' folks know it as well. My mum is a teacher for mentally disabled children - and doesn't give a hoot for Harry Potter. And she knew because the kids in her school (most of them cannot even READ, but were updated by siblings) talked about it so much. To a degree that before DH was pubished, she made me promise to give her a call and tell her about 'that Snape guy' so she wouldn't be totally clueless when going back to schol on the following Monday. 'That Snape guy' was right on top of her list of questions, next to 'Does Harry Potter survive?' Mind you, she doesn't know who Snape IS - but she knows the name and that he killed Dumbledore.

I think the whole remaining-spoiler-free thing is more common among the younger audience, too. Ask a fifty-year-old what a spoiler IS, and chances are that they think you mean the same-name part on a car.

So, in regard to the actual film scene, I think the way to go would be getting an emotional response from the audience, not a surprise. (Compare Revenge of the Sith - of course they couldn't get a gasp of surprise at the 'Rise, Lord Vader' line - but they could still make it dramatic and 'emotional' for the audience)

[deansboy]

Originally Posted by Fleur du mal

So, in regard to the actual film scene, I think the way to go would be getting an emotional response from the audience, not a surprise.

But can they get an emotional response from the majority of the audience? These are made into family films, yes there are plenty of fans who will cry but that, imo, is more of a connection to the book and how they felt about the death than the film itself, it's the reminder of how a person felt. I cried when Dobby died but I doubt I'd have the same response to a film if it's made the way they have been.

Here, in a rare moment, I can't take Yates to task because he's hampered by the age restrictions he has to work with. We've seen dead bodies in the series already but I've yet to see a scene that really wrenches at the heart on it's own merit.

Originally Posted by Fleur du mal

(Compare Revenge of the Sith - of course they couldn't get a gasp of surprise at the 'Rise, Lord Vader' line - but they could still make it dramatic and 'emotional' for the audience)

OH star wars screwed up so much on cool surprises by giving too much in the trailers. In Episode 1 they show Darth Maul pulling out both blades on his light saber which ruins they overall effect since most people had never seen or heard a double lightsaber before. For Episode 3 they START OFF the trailer with with the emperors line. That moment should've been shrouded in complete secrecy, it was the birth of an iconic villain, the freakin' bread and butter and they gave it out in the trailer!

To quote the Joker, "If you're good at something, never do it for free." Lucas was so good at this before, "I am your father!" was a true surprise and yet he lost it in so many ways with the later trilogy.

[Fleur du mal]

Originally Posted by deansboy

OH star wars screwed up so much on cool surprises by giving too much in the trailers. In Episode 1 they show Darth Maul pulling out both blades on his light saber which ruins they overall effect since most people had never seen or heard a double lightsaber before. For Episode 3 they START OFF the trailer with with the emperors line. That moment should've been shrouded in complete secrecy, it was the birth of an iconic villain, the freakin' bread and butter and they gave it out in the trailer!

My point was rather that everybody and their great-grandmother KNEW that Anakin Skywalker became Darth Vader. You'd have to be living in a cave for the past twenty years to miss on that bit. And while the 'Snape kills Dumbledore' thing might not have reached the same magnitude of pop-trivia, it's making its way up there (hey, the book's out for three years only - give it some more time, and the films, and even my gran will know it). I'm truly curious whether there will be anyone surprised when I'll finally watch it in the cinema. Right now, I cannot imagine there will be someone so entirely uninitiated

[yoshi2542]

Originally Posted by deansboy

We've seen dead bodies in the series already but I've yet to see a scene that really wrenches at the heart on it's own merit.

I think the scene with Harry, Dumbledore and Amos Diggory standing over Cedric's corpse was pretty moving. Music played a huge part in that scene, and I think a lot of the complaints about the finale will be alleviated with a good score (though I fully expect Hooper to turn in the same bland rubbish that he did for OOTP). Even I don't think Yates could completely mess up such a good ending. I mean, you'd have to be beyond incompetent to not come up with something moving when you've got such brilliant actors and such a strong story. Now, even though I am concerned that he's introducing characters like Narcissa and then forgetting about them (only an poor storyteller would introduce Draco's mother and then not have her be on the tower) when they could easily improve the finale, I still think that the core triangle between Snape, Dumbledore and Harry will be strong. It has to be. If it isn't, then I will have suffered through 2 hours of, as far as I'm concerned, fan-fiction calibre romance, for nothing, and when audiences start thinking like that, the box office for DH is going to suffer.

[deansboy]

I don't believe it'll suffer because they're making these movies for a general audience. Dark and dank times in HBP equal romantic comedy to the film makers so it's not going to affect their ability to go out and produce this. I said it after OoTP but most went out and kept this positivity about the possibility that they would improve but you don't change a winning hand.

Why delve into Harry and Snape's disgust for one another? It's boring an time consuming. Why concentrate on the brooding young man that is Harry Potter in OoTP? It's annoying and time consuming. Why give Voldemort's past and rise to power solid time? We have teenage romances to present. Why give the prophecy a clear presentation? It's time consuming and not necessary. You have a villain and a hero and enough back story to explain why they need to clash, formula complete.

[arithmancer]

Originally Posted by yoshi2542

Now, even though I am concerned that he's introducing characters like Narcissa and then forgetting about them (only an poor storyteller would introduce Draco's mother and then not have her be on the tower)

Huh? Why is Narcissa desperate and begging Snape to help out her darling, if she's going to be there herself? I can see the logic of Bella being there (and Cissy not thinking that's good enough!), but Narcissa's presence there is not required. Her influence is, at any rate, seemingly felt, since Snape carries out the agreement he has made with her.

[Fleur du mal]

Originally Posted by zgirnius

Huh? Why is Narcissa desperate and begging Snape to help out her darling, if she's going to be there herself? I can see the logic of Bella being there (and Cissy not thinking that's good enough!), but Narcissa's presence there is not required. Her influence is, at any rate, seemingly felt, since Snape carries out the agreement he has made with her.

total agreement, Z

[yoshi2542]

Originally Posted by zgirnius

Huh? Why is Narcissa desperate and begging Snape to help out her darling, if she's going to be there herself? I can see the logic of Bella being there (and Cissy not thinking that's good enough!), but Narcissa's presence there is not required. Her influence is, at any rate, seemingly felt, since Snape carries out the agreement he has made with her.

Narcissa is not a teacher at Hogwarts. Snape has the proximity to Draco necessary to protect/help him throughout the year, I hardly think her the sort of person talented/tough enough to murder Dumbledore, and I don't think it unreasonable for Bella to drag her along to see Snape do it. If she isn't going to be present at the finale, then her character should be cut. Don't hang the 'concerned mother' gun on the wall in the first act, if it's not going to be fired in the third. It's sloppy. Introducing characters and then forgetting about them is unacceptable.

[meesha1971]

Originally Posted by zgirnius

Huh? Why is Narcissa desperate and begging Snape to help out her darling, if she's going to be there herself? I can see the logic of Bella being there (and Cissy not thinking that's good enough!), but Narcissa's presence there is not required. Her influence is, at any rate, seemingly felt, since Snape carries out the agreement he has made with her.

I agree about Narcissa. If she were present on the tower, then there would be no need for her to go to Snape and ask for his help because she could protect Draco/do it for him on her own. From the comments I've seen about the screening, Narcissa has two scenes that will establish her protectiveness over Draco and - as you pointed out - her influence should be felt on the tower due to the Unbreakable Vow with Snape.

However, I really don't see the logic in having Bellatrix on the tower because that undermines the fact that Draco was expected to fail in his mission. Voldemort sent the "underlings" to back up Draco - the less skilled/less reliable. Draco's failure would undoubtedly result in those servants being captured so Voldemort sent the more expendable ones.


In other news - Jason Isaacs has confirmed that he did have one day of filming for HBP. Lucius does not actually appear in the movie, but will be seen as a moving portrait at some point. I haven't seen this mentioned in any of the comments about the screening, but none of the other moving portraits/photos have been mentioned either so it might have been overlooked.

[arithmancer]

Originally Posted by yoshi2542

Narcissa is not a teacher at Hogwarts. Snape has the proximity to Draco necessary to protect/help him throughout the year, I hardly think her the sort of person talented/tough enough to murder Dumbledore, and I don't think it unreasonable for Bella to drag her along to see Snape do it. If she isn't going to be present at the finale, then her character should be cut. Don't hang the 'concerned mother' gun on the wall in the first act, if it's not going to be fired in the third. It's sloppy. Introducing characters and then forgetting about them is unacceptable.

How is Snape killing Dumbledore, NOT a gun going off? Umm, rather loudly? Narcissa looking helpless and worried there would just be a waste of space, needless clutter, in my opinion. We see Narcissa desperate, begging for help, and getting Snape's consent. We see her again, confident and unpleasant (so it seems from the reports we have, just as in the books). And we see her plan work, both in the Hogwarts scenes with Snape and Draco, and in the Tower scene.

Without her, we just have the gun going off, and for no particular reason. It seems to me you've got some sort of formula you are applying here, in an overly rigid manner.

[meesha1971]

Originally Posted by yoshi2542

Narcissa is not a teacher at Hogwarts. Snape has the proximity to Draco necessary to protect/help him throughout the year, I hardly think her the sort of person talented/tough enough to murder Dumbledore, and I don't think it unreasonable for Bella to drag her along to see Snape do it. If she isn't going to be present at the finale, then her character should be cut. Don't hang the 'concerned mother' gun on the wall in the first act, if it's not going to be fired in the third. It's sloppy. Introducing characters and then forgetting about them is unacceptable.

The "concerned mother" gun is fired when Snape fulfills his promise. That's the whole point of Narcissa's in HBP. She goes to Snape to ask him to fill in for her because she can't be there herself. She's not physically present in that scene, but her influence is there because she took the initiative to go to Snape.