The All-Inclusive HBP Thread, v.12

[ArryGrotter]

I saw these on Leaky and had to share:

Socks made of the HBP Opal Yarn!

Socks:    

---

Dumbledore Socks: Ron socks: Tonks socks: Harry socks: Draco socks:

[CountWestwest]

Originally Posted by ArryGrotter

I saw these on Leaky and had to share:

Socks made of the HBP Opal Yarn!

Socks:    

---

What will they think of next?

Ron's socks sort of have Chudley Cannon colors. I think Tonks colors are also in touch with the character... but Harry's socks should probably have had Gryffindor colors.

*Ducks head before moderator smacks me for being off topic*

Will the wear those in the HBP movie? (*slick move to get back on topic*)

[ArryGrotter]

Originally Posted by CountWestwest

Will the wear those in the HBP movie? (*slick move to get back on topic*)

The relevance to HBP is that our first pictures of the films came of this yarn when it was being promoted

[Fleur du mal]

We should consider ourselves lucky that the DH denoument has already happened, or we'd be talking ourselves crazy about those socks, I bet you anything. There were SO many theories back then about socks - Dobby's sock, Dumbledore talking about wanting more socks, the Dursleys presenting Harry a pair of Vernon's old socks - "that's GOT to mean SOMETHING". And when certain details were included in the films, that was counted as evidence of JKR pulling strings in the background to include vital information on screen, too. Just like the production of a HBP-promotional Dobby figure was counted as a piece of evidence for his inclusion in the film. Seriously, I am glad that we already know that Dumbledore's socks don't mean anything in particular.

That aside - I had my fair share of sneering when the OPAL yarn got out with the very first official pics. But the thing is - I do think it's a rather nice idea. There's so much mentioning of socks in the books, and Dumbledore talking about knitting patterns, that socks and yarn do appear like reasonable merchandise. And it's, for a change, so nicely useful. One CANNOT have to many socks

[Jack5555]

Originally Posted by Fleur du mal

We should consider ourselves lucky that the DH denoument has already happened, or we'd be talking ourselves crazy about those socks, I bet you anything. There were SO many theories back then about socks - Dobby's sock, Dumbledore talking about wanting more socks, the Dursleys presenting Harry a pair of Vernon's old socks - "that's GOT to mean SOMETHING". And when certain details were included in the films, that was counted as evidence of JKR pulling strings in the background to include vital information on screen, too. Just like the production of a HBP-promotional Dobby figure was counted as a piece of evidence for his inclusion in the film. Seriously, I am glad that we already know that Dumbledore's socks don't mean anything in particular.

That aside - I had my fair share of sneering when the OPAL yarn got out with the very first official pics. But the thing is - I do think it's a rather nice idea. There's so much mentioning of socks in the books, and Dumbledore talking about knitting patterns, that socks and yarn do appear like reasonable merchandise. And it's, for a change, so nicely useful. One CANNOT have to many socks

Yeah, everyone was a little obsessive with all the merchendice

Spoiler: show

Boy, I am sp tempted to get the ring. And I am SO glad the DH symbol is on the ring

[Infinity9999x]

Originally Posted by lcbaseball22

FINE, don't believe me (I really don't care)...but the stats don't lie And I already told you:



Besides, to explain it farther would be taking this way OFF-TOPIC...something I'm not about to do

And come on, 10 %??? Are you ****** kidding me? Now THAT is LAUGHABLE () You are vastly mistaken dude!

BTW, I think you mis-understood, I'm talking about ALL book readers...not just "hardcore fans"

Show me your proof that HP book fans make up a large majority of the audience, and I'll gladly retract my statement. I'm not being patronizing here, I really mean it.

But I'm positive that there's no way to prove that the book fans make up a large percent of the audience, simply because there's no way to see how many people who go to the movies have read the books, unless WB held a survey at the last few movies that I was unaware of.

And add to the fact that there's more non-book readers in the world then book readers, and then you have to take in to account Klio's point, that there are two very different kinds of "book" readers. There's people like us, who are in the hardcore group, but then there's people like my parents, who read casually and don't remember much of the books besides the most basic details.

And the hardcore fans and definitely in the minority, obviously, or this cite would have thousands more members.

[Montse]

Originally Posted by Infinity9999x

Show me your proof that HP book fans make up a large majority of the audience, and I'll gladly retract my statement. I'm not being patronizing here, I really mean it.

But I'm positive that there's no way to prove that the book fans make up a large percent of the audience, simply because there's no way to see how many people who go to the movies have read the books, unless WB held a survey at the last few movies that I was unaware of.

And add to the fact that there's more non-book readers in the world then book readers, and then you have to take in to account Klio's point, that there are two very different kinds of "book" readers. There's people like us, who are in the hardcore group, but then there's people like my parents, who read casually and don't remember much of the books besides the most basic details.

And the hardcore fans and definitely in the minority, obviously, or this cite would have thousands more members.

I dont have proof or statistics or anything of the sort.But I imagine the number mentioned in the artilce I read a while ago is a big one.(35,000) I dont have a clue of what this is compared to the general audience, but I just know , this number of signatures collected is big, and reflects that we book Potter fans are many and are a big part of the audience who goes to see the films.If not , WB would have not answered our complaints or given us any reason for doing it, he did take the time to answer back and tried to convince is was all for the better.

In his response to the storming complaint from "Harry Potter" fans, Warner Bros.' President and Chief Operating Officer Alan Horn has issued a statement explaining deeper on the decision of changing the date. The statement read, "Many of you have written to me to express your disappointment in our moving 'Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince' to Summer 2009."

"Please be assured that we share your love for Harry Potter and would certainly never do anything to hurt any of the films. Over the past 10 years, we have nurtured and protected each film, and the integrity of the books upon which they are based, to the best of our ability. The decision to move 'Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince' was not taken lightly, and was never intended to upset our Harry Potter fans. We know you have built this series into what it is, and we thank you for your ongoing enthusiasm and support."

If we were a minority , Would he have done that?

I dont think so.

I quote from this article I read a while ago.
http://www.aceshowbiz.com/news/view/00017754.html
Angry Fans Petition Against 'Half-Blood Prince' Delay

Boiled up by the recent announcement of the moving back of "Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince" release date, the fans of the boy wizard fight back the decision by any means they know of. In their effort to make sure Warner Bros. understand they don't want the delay release, many of them have been rallying to persuade the studio's executives to change their mind.

Doing every way they can, some made petitions both online and off. One of the online petitions reportedly has collected about 35,000 digital signatures, while a campaign by Dumbledore's Army prompted fans to write down their concerns. Another form of protests is also offered as the fans plot to take the protest to the street outside Warner's corporate headquarters in New York. A Facebook group named The Delay of Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince Has Ruined My Life has gone even further by planning a nationwide boycott of the movie.

Originally Posted by ArryGrotter

Socks made of the HBP Opal Yarn!

Dobby was so fond of socks. I hate the fact they are not including Dobby.

[Klio]

Originally Posted by Montse

I dont have proof or statistics or anything of the sort.But I imagine the number mentioned in the artilce I read a while ago is a big one.(35,000) I dont have a clue of what this is compared to the general audience, but I just know , this number of signatures collected is big, and reflects that we book Potter fans are many and are a big part of the audience who goes to see the films.If not, WB would have not answered our complaints or given us any reason for doing it, he did take the time to answer back and tried to convince is was all for the better.

If we were a minority , Would he have done that?

Well... let's put it like this: if HPB gets a mere 200 000 000 USD (that's two hundred million) at the US box office alone, it won't be seen as a great success.

Let's calculate an average price of 10 USD per ticket, that means 20 Million tickets sold. Compared to that, 35 000 people are nothing at all, really, especially becaue the hard core fans tend to see the films anyway, no matter how angry they are.



Fans CAN make a lot of noise - much more so than their numbers would warrant. The upset would have to be much worse than it was over the delay to really change the game for WB. But of course they monitor fansites, and since it costs them almost nothing to come up with that apology, why not.

But although fans (me included) always feel great when they have proof that they are being noticed (a feelgood factor WB knows about), it's a good idea to have a sense of our real place in the scheme of things.....




The thing is, if you include special 'fan details' and by this create a film that non-readers, or the majority of readers with a hazy memory find more difficult to follow, you end up with very different factors at work - for example word of mouth along the lines of 'this was bring' or 'I didn't have a clue what was going on' or reviewers (often non-readers) panning it, which WILL turn audiences away, to the extent that a considerable proportion of box office (= millions of tickets) are lost.

For a film company it's just not sensible to follow the whims of a few ten thousand fans if millions of tickets are at stake.



Ultimately, we as fans should care about the financial success of the films as well: the last two films and the legacy of the franchise depends on it.....

[Graduand_Esk]

I'm sure that in WB's terms 'the decision was not taken lightly' but the way an organisation like that makes decisions is quite different to how a fan - and dare I say it - one of the actors or the creative team behind making the film might choose to do things. As people have already mentioned, apologies are painless for WB to make, but they don't change anything at all.

For the sake of everyone, (not just die-hard fans of the series) if there was going to be a change to when HBP was released, the decent thing to do would have been to announce it before the summer film season when people were beginning to think towards November and looking out for an HBP trailer in cinemas. The only reason I can think of for leaving the announcement so late would be if the decision was very last-minute - and that seems a bit unprofessional.

What comforts me is the fact that the movie will (eventually) be with us and that I imagine many of the people involved in the filming of it privately sympathise with the fans.

[Montse]

Originally Posted by Klio

Fans CAN make a lot of noise - much more so than their numbers would warrant. The upset would have to be much worse than it was over the delay to really change the game for WB. But of course they monitor fansites, and since it costs them almost nothing to come up with that apology, why not.

But although fans (me included) always feel great when they have proof that they are being noticed (a feelgood factor WB knows about), it's a good idea to have a sense of our real place in the scheme of things.....

Now, I would not be so sure, Of course we made a lot of noise ,but there are loads of articles quoting stuff like this

If they mess with something this precious to millions of fans and it causes such a negative reaction, it's not something they can ignore. Fans are essential to the success of a movie as long as they're happy and excited - The Dark Knight proved that. Comments on our article range from peaceful protests like (#13): "This is a huge disappointment for WB and for Harry Potter." To loquacious outbursts like this one (#17): "All its doing is ******* off its fan base. That includes me, so + off Warner Bros, you ruined my day

Like I said, I dont know or understand statistics,I suck at numbers. But I understand what you say klio, but I believe we fans are a great number of the movie audience.Other people just dont care as much, and if it werent for us, the series would have not continued to be produced cause the average audience could not care less if the series continues or not. Only we do.

[MasterOfDeath]

Ok, I'm going to twist this up and say if it is true that most of general audience do not read the books, then the films need to be drastically changed. The films as they exist now barely explain anything, especially OOTP. Characters aren't named or introduced, the main plot wasn't sufficiently explained, characters aren't properly developed.

If these movies were truly to be stand alone then they should possess more of the canon in order for the stories to stand alone as a film and tell a coherent story that makes sense on its own.

Themes like personal politics and isolation are wonderful and Wimsey makes alot of sense about this. I just disagree with him that this is the STORY. I believe these are themes. Without the plot/narrative, these wonderful themes cannot come across as literately IMO.

Of-course a story should tell a story and leave a message that is relevant to the real world but without the tools and quicks of a full and complex narrative and a plot that is actually given backbone, then these themes would come across as paper-thin.

Ironically, being faithful to the books actually is more beneficial to general audience. I watch these movies with my non-book reading family and I hate how they are always confused and asking me questions. I wish we got a movie that sufficiently explained it's own plot!


That is my opinion on this matter.

[Rachezee]

Ok because this subject won't seem to drop, I am posting the only legitimate survey results I have been able to find. Please take notice that these results were published in July 2007 by the Nielsen Company and are concerning The United States only-

Moviegoer Profile (Nielsen Cinema)
Findings from a recent Nielsen Cinema survey show 51% of persons age 12+ in the U.S. are aware that the new book is coming out next month. Twenty-eight percent of persons 12+ in the U.S. have read one or more of the previous Harry Potter books, and 15% have read all six previous Harry Potter books.
More than half (53%) of the people who have read at least one of the Harry Potter books indicated they plan on reading "Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows," with nearly 40% planning to read it as soon as it is released.


While the Harry Potter books are wildly popular in the U.S., the movies are even more so. More than one quarter of Americans 12+ claim to have seen all of the previous Harry Potter movies. In the U.S., the box office audience for the last two Harry Potter movies - Prisoner of Azkaban and The Goblet of Fire - is made up primarily of children and teens. While not quite a majority, over 40% of the box office audience for the last two movies is 2-17 years old, with girls making up just over 50%. Other findings from Nielsen Cinema include:

• 59% of persons age 12 and older are aware that the fifth movie in the series, "Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix," is coming out this month.
• 57% of persons 12+ have seen one or more of the previous Harry Potter movies.

http://www.nielsenmedia.com/nc/porta...00ac0a260aRCRD

[Klio]

Originally Posted by MasterOfDeath

Ok, I'm going to twist this up and say if it is true that most of general audience do not read the books, then the films need to be drastically changed. The films as they exist now barely explain anything, especially OOTP. Characters aren't named or introduced, the main plot wasn't sufficiently explained, characters aren't properly developed.

I think we can all agree that these movies did make some mistakes. We cant agree on the mistakes, we can't agree on what was going on exactly, or which demographic caused the effect and why, but, as far as I understand it, they usually performed perfectly fine at the box office, but never really achieved any extraordinary numbers ..... don't get me wrong, it makes its money back easily, and as a franchise it's still impressive, but it's never been this jaw dropping box office run that WB surely expected, at last initially.


I guess we'll continue to disagree on why that was, though.....



I guess the lesson is that it's probably a good idea not to make dogmatic statements along the lines of 'as we all know, X is true' - because that'll set off the whole argument all over again

[MasterOfDeath]

Originally Posted by Klio

I think we can all agree that these movies did make some mistakes. We cant agree on the mistakes, we can't agree on what was going on exactly, or which demographic caused the effect and why, but, as far as I understand it, they usually performed perfectly fine at the box office, but never really achieved any extraordinary numbers ..... don't get me wrong, it makes its money back easily, and as a franchise it's still impressive, but it's never been this jaw dropping box office run that WB surely expected, at last initially.


I guess we'll continue to disagree on why that was, though.....



I guess the lesson is that it's probably a good idea not to make dogmatic statements along the lines of 'as we all know, X is true' - because that'll set off the whole argument all over again

Maybe the box office would be higher if they made these movies as deep, complex and as in-depth as I believe the books are, instead of watering down and simplifying everything.

I believe this is the reason.

Still, I think the success of SS/PS (and it is still the highest grossing of the films as of now) tells us all we need to know about the cultural impact of these books. HP is like the Star Wars of books.

[Infinity9999x]

Originally Posted by Montse

I dont have proof or statistics or anything of the sort.But I imagine the number mentioned in the artilce I read a while ago is a big one.(35,000) I dont have a clue of what this is compared to the general audience, but I just know , this number of signatures collected is big, and reflects that we book Potter fans are many and are a big part of the audience who goes to see the films.If not , WB would have not answered our complaints or given us any reason for doing it, he did take the time to answer back and tried to convince is was all for the better.

If we were a minority , Would he have done that?

I dont think so.

I quote from this article I read a while ago.
http://www.aceshowbiz.com/news/view/00017754.html
Angry Fans Petition Against 'Half-Blood Prince' Delay



Dobby was so fond of socks. I hate the fact they are not including Dobby.

As Kilo already demonstrated, 35,000 is a very small number in terms of all the people who go to see the movie. And that article says "Harry Potter fans" and you have to remember that not all Harry Potter fans are book readers. On the HP thread on another board I post in, lots of people were upset about the delay, but many of them commented on not having read the books.

As Racheeze's post shows, only 28 percent of the people in the us that are 12 or older have read one or more Harry Potter books, and you have to remember that, of that group, only a very small portion are as dedicated to the books as we are. Most of them are very casual readers who would only vaguely remember details like Lupin and Tonks getting married, or Nearly Headless Nick's deathday party, and that's why the movies are made the way they are.

I'm not saying I agree with it, but that's just the way it is.

[Solaris23]

The fact of the matter is unfortunately that the book readers are not the primary audience that the films are marketed to now, when you could say in PS and COS they were due to the amount they left in and how detailed they were in the little things, such as Percy even having a Prefect badge and Oliver his Captain's badge pinned to their robes and how the castle looked pristine and clean all over despite being over 1000 years old. But in reality I think that WB knew that adding too much confused their larger audience of the casual viewer who, lets face it, do not follow the books or care about side characters and multiple arcs and instead just want to go in, watch the neat action and cool special effects and switch their brain off. And at the moment that is what the HP films are really - pure fluff, entertaining but overall not as deep or multi layered as the books.

In saying that though you can still get a deep emotional connection across using only limited characters and time and such a film that highlights this amazingly is WALL E. We are only ever really kept to two characters and the story-line is very straight forward and does not confuse the audience, yet we care greatly and are deeply emotionally invested in their plight and what happens to them at the end. It is a fine line that few movies and indeed series can pull off beautifully as Pixar has in WALL E but they did it, so why can't HP ?

While on WALL E, it also reminded me how much music plays such a crucial role in getting the mood across when words are not needed, as such the scene where WALL E and EVE are dancing in space and the tune DEFINE DANCING is played. It makes you feel so in love with them and believe that these two robots of all things are dancing and falling in love and it is amazing, and the only HP film so far that has used this method of mood to music to get the emotions across as effectively imo is POA.

[SusanBones]

Okay, everyone, I see that this thread has become a little unruly. I'm wondering if maybe we can table the discussion of the importance of statistics and move back to a discussion of the HBP movie.

[Infinity9999x]

Originally Posted by Solaris23

The fact of the matter is unfortunately that the book readers are not the primary audience that the films are marketed to now, when you could say in PS and COS they were due to the amount they left in and how detailed they were in the little things, such as Percy even having a Prefect badge and Oliver his Captain's badge pinned to their robes and how the castle looked pristine and clean all over despite being over 1000 years old. But in reality I think that WB knew that adding too much confused their larger audience of the casual viewer who, lets face it, do not follow the books or care about side characters and multiple arcs and instead just want to go in, watch the neat action and cool special effects and switch their brain off. And at the moment that is what the HP films are really - pure fluff, entertaining but overall not as deep or multi layered as the books.

In saying that though you can still get a deep emotional connection across using only limited characters and time and such a film that highlights this amazingly is WALL E. We are only ever really kept to two characters and the story-line is very straight forward and does not confuse the audience, yet we care greatly and are deeply emotionally invested in their plight and what happens to them at the end. It is a fine line that few movies and indeed series can pull off beautifully as Pixar has in WALL E but they did it, so why can't HP ?

While on WALL E, it also reminded me how much music plays such a crucial role in getting the mood across when words are not needed, as such the scene where WALL E and EVE are dancing in space and the tune DEFINE DANCING is played. It makes you feel so in love with them and believe that these two robots of all things are dancing and falling in love and it is amazing, and the only HP film so far that has used this method of mood to music to get the emotions across as effectively imo is POA.

I agree. Mood, or the overall feeling of the story is an important thing to capture, sometimes more so then the little details.

For example, I would say that SS and COS were more detail accurate to the books, but I wouldn't say they were the most faithful. Columbus went to great lengths to get the details right, but he was horrible at recreating the world that JKR had set up, the mood that the books have, in essence, he didn't capture the heart.

For example, some of the Fred and George scenes. In both SS and COS he had some instances where Fred and George have dialog that's almost exactly what they say in the books, but in many cases Columbus had them present this dialog in such stilted ways that it lacked the humor that the dialog had in the book. Again, it lacked the heart.

To me, making sure the atmosphere, tone, and feeling of the movie match the books is much more important then the little details. I don't care if Fred and George say exactly what they say in the books, I don't care if they create a memory Harry has about his mom in POA, as long as it fits with the tone and essence of the characters and the story.

For example, I'm a huge Batman fan. When TDK was announced and people found out the Joker applied makeup instead of having bleached white skin, I wasn't happy. Then I saw TDK, and while many things in that movie were different from the Batman I love in the comics, the tone, the mood, the heart of that movie was absolutely pitch-perfect for Batman. Sure, the Joker didn't look exactly the way he did in the comics, but he acted in way that was perfect to the character.

I'm not saying I don't want the little details. I'd love to have both. but when it comes down to it, I think it's much more important to capture the core tone of the story then the little details. I thought they did an okay job of this in OOTP, hopefully they'll do it even better in HBP.

[JustAnIllusion]

Originally Posted by MasterOfDeath

Ironically, being faithful to the books actually is more beneficial to general audience. I watch these movies with my non-book reading family and I hate how they are always confused and asking me questions. I wish we got a movie that sufficiently explained it's own plot!


That is my opinion on this matter.

We're not talking about details that explain things, though... at least, I don't think. We're speaking of subplots, which complicate a storyline. If a subplot does not serve a purpose to better explain the main point, then by cutting it the actual storyline becomes less convoluted and more clear; therefore, audiences who have hardly any foundation of background information can better understand the movie.

Originally Posted by MasterOfDeath

Maybe the box office would be higher if they made these movies as deep, complex and as in-depth as I believe the books are, instead of watering down and simplifying everything.

I believe this is the reason.

Still, I think the success of SS/PS (and it is still the highest grossing of the films as of now) tells us all we need to know about the cultural impact of these books. HP is like the Star Wars of books.

The movies touching too lightly on the surface could be the reason that they aren't exactly amazing (IMHO, of course), but I think that a very focused storyline can go deeper than any convoluted tale with many, many plots and subplots. In the books, it is easy to focus on each separate one with tender, loving care... but movies do not have the time, nor reason to do so. I think that they all, especially HBP and DH, should follow the lines of PoA and attempt to concentrate on one storyline, including only things that back up that theme.

Originally Posted by Solaris23

In saying that though you can still get a deep emotional connection across using only limited characters and time and such a film that highlights this amazingly is WALL E. We are only ever really kept to two characters and the story-line is very straight forward and does not confuse the audience, yet we care greatly and are deeply emotionally invested in their plight and what happens to them at the end. It is a fine line that few movies and indeed series can pull off beautifully as Pixar has in WALL E but they did it, so why can't HP ?

While on WALL E, it also reminded me how much music plays such a crucial role in getting the mood across when words are not needed, as such the scene where WALL E and EVE are dancing in space and the tune DEFINE DANCING is played. It makes you feel so in love with them and believe that these two robots of all things are dancing and falling in love and it is amazing, and the only HP film so far that has used this method of mood to music to get the emotions across as effectively imo is POA.

A perfect example of my point! I agree. In HBP, I felt cutting Won/Lav, cutting quidditch (unless it served a better purpose, like helping Harry and Ginny connect), and adapting other subplots to the main one, serving the idea of "for the greater good" would've done the movie great justice. Then the movie makers could concentrate on providing depth for the main storyline... finding out about Voldemort's past, and its effect on Harry's present.

[Kat_Suki]

Four new promo pics of Hermione, warning, they're totally super hi-res.

http://snitchseeker.com/harry-potter...-promos-59698/