The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

[Moriath]

Welcome to the third instalment. First day of the new year, shiny new thread!

For reference: version one and version two.


For all those addicted to the series, this is the thread to discuss Twilight, New Moon, Eclipse and Breaking Dawn.

Info for everyone new to the books - taken from wiki Twilight is a young adult vampire novel written by author Stephenie Meyer, originally published in hardcover in 2005. It is the genesis of the Twilight saga, and introduces seventeen-year-old Isabella "Bella" Swan who moves from Phoenix, Arizona to Forks, Washington and finds her life in danger when she falls in love with a vampire, Edward Cullen.

[MC2456]

Yay! First poster. So, to kick things off, what are your opinions of Esme Cullen? I think she is motherly, sweet and extremely Molly-Weasley (in a nice way!) Out of all the Twilight chars, I like her and Carlisle the best.

[Caliope]

Oh boy - new thread! Honestly I have no opinion of Esme Cullen. She seems nice, but she doesn't really seem to do much but hang around in the background and.....be nice.

[Rebel]

Esme is just a cut-out of a mother figure. It seems like she had no personality so i therefore have no opinion on her.

[PureBloodGirl]

Originally Posted by Caliope

Oh boy - new thread! Honestly I have no opinion of Esme Cullen. She seems nice, but she doesn't really seem to do much but hang around in the background and.....be nice.

Wow! A new thread! I don't have an opinion on her either. She didn't have much of a story to her. All we know of her is that Carlisle saved her when she jumped off of a cliff. She's nice, she's somewhat motherly, she's very caring, but we don't know much about her to have an opinion on the character. That's the thing, Meyer really didn't think out very much on descriptions and backgrounds of some of the characters.

[Voldemorts8thHorcrux]

Originally Posted by caliope

^I haven't read 'Speak' yet, daggnabbit!

don't worry, I didn't really give away anything, it's all in the very beginning of the book and the other portion is on the back cover, I'm not that dumb

oooh, sparkly new thread

The thing is about Esme is that like the rest of Meyer's character is that she is just another 2D character....which just bothers me....

[vampiricduck]

New thread! Yay!

I kinda find that I like Esme, for whatever reason. She's commanding enough that she can provide but altruistic enough that she never falters in helping those she loves. I like her power even though it's rarely seen. She seems well able and I think she suits Carlisle very well, so I like that.

[Hermi0nechik92]

And the glitter glue continues!

Originally Posted by Caliope

Oh boy - new thread! Honestly I have no opinion of Esme Cullen. She seems nice, but she doesn't really seem to do much but hang around in the background and.....be nice.

Esme always seems sweet, and i admire that she can love anyone, and was so supportive for Edward. But, like you've all said, she didn't leave a huge impression seeing as she didn't have an enormous role. I don't think that Esme really needed to leave a bigger impression than she did. She was sort of a background character...

[IntricateLogic]

Originally Posted by Voldemorts8thHorcrux

The thing is about Esme is that like the rest of Meyer's character is that she is just another 2D character....which just bothers me....

Exactly. It seems none of Meyer's characters have any real depth to them, which makes it hard to form an opinion on anybody.

Esme does seem like a sweet, motherly figure though but that's about all we know about her.

[vampiricduck]

Originally Posted by Hermi0nechik92

And the glitter glue continues!

This is, I'm aware, a very stupid question.. but what is this glitter glue you all talk about? I thought it had to do with the sparkle effect in the film, but now I'm not so sure.. Need to keep up with modern phraseology..

[Charline81]

I was reading the pregnancy topic on the other thread, and I started thinking the other day about a few things *possible spoilers*
Ok on the subject of Imprinting, they have talked about it being a way to find a mate to pass on the shifter gene, Leah talks about how her body isn't right, if it was Sam would have Imprinted on her and Jacob asks something about if she thinks she'll ever Imprint on someone, and she goes onto say shes menopause and couldn't carry on the gene and so on.
So from what is in the book and things that SM has said, it seems that fertility and ability to produce children who will carry on the shifter gene is the main reason for Imprinting.
Now we go onto the facts SM stated that Female Vampires cannot become pregnant, due to the fact they are frozen in time, their bodies do not change and their body needs to change in order to have children, men do not change they can have children when they are 98 years old, ok so I can some what see all this, but heres where a major plot hole comes into play...
Nessie will grow for 7 years, after 7 years sge will stop growing, she is immortal. Nahuel is described as being a young man, and hes older than Edward.
So if after 7 years Nessie is a "full grown" young woman, her body will stop aging, she like her mother and the rest of the females will be frozen in time.
Obviously after 7 years her body will be frozen in time, she will be a young woman for eternity, just like the Female vampires, again they can not become pregnant because their bodies are frozen in time, they do not change, so this would logically mean that Nessie will not be able to become pregnant as her body will not change after 7 years, and yet Jacob Imprinted on Nessie.
My friend and I agree that its a pretty noticeable plot hole.

[Voldemorts8thHorcrux]

Originally Posted by Charline81

I was reading the pregnancy topic on the other thread, and I started thinking the other day about a few things *possible spoilers*
Ok on the subject of Imprinting, they have talked about it being a way to find a mate to pass on the shifter gene, Leah talks about how her body isn't right, if it was Sam would have Imprinted on her and Jacob asks something about if she thinks she'll ever Imprint on someone, and she goes onto say shes menopause and couldn't carry on the gene and so on.
So from what is in the book and things that SM has said, it seems that fertility and ability to produce children who will carry on the shifter gene is the main reason for Imprinting.
Now we go onto the facts SM stated that Female Vampires cannot become pregnant, due to the fact they are frozen in time, their bodies do not change and their body needs to change in order to have children, men do not change they can have children when they are 98 years old, ok so I can some what see all this, but heres where a major plot hole comes into play...
Nessie will grow for 7 years, after 7 years sge will stop growing, she is immortal. Nahuel is described as being a young man, and hes older than Edward.
So if after 7 years Nessie is a "full grown" young woman, her body will stop aging, she like her mother and the rest of the females will be frozen in time.
Obviously after 7 years her body will be frozen in time, she will be a young woman for eternity, just like the Female vampires, again they can not become pregnant because their bodies are frozen in time, they do not change, so this would logically mean that Nessie will not be able to become pregnant as her body will not change after 7 years, and yet Jacob Imprinted on Nessie.
My friend and I agree that its a pretty noticeable plot hole.

I agree with this too, but I guess Nessie could have a child before then too...

[LilyLunaPotter]

Originally Posted by Voldemorts8thHorcrux

I agree with this too, but I guess Nessie could have a child before then too...

She could... but I honestly doubt Edward and Bells letting her. I mean remember how Bells flipped when she found out Jake had imprinted on Nessie? I dont think they're going to want Nessie to have a baby. It would take immense pleading to *maybe* convince them.

But then again, she could do a Bells and have a baby without her parents knowing.

[merry18]

Wow. I hadn't even noticed that plothole before. Kinda makes me hate the Jacob-impringting-on-Nessie thing even more than I already did. I mean, really. Probably the worst plot twist in the hole series in my opinion, and even more so now that I know about that immense plothole.

[Voldemorts8thHorcrux]

It might have worked without Meyer talking about how imprinting might be because of making stronger wolf babies. Something that would make more sense to me would be that imprinting makes the wolves less depressed which makes them feel better about themselves and solves internal disputes, but then again, then Sam and Emily wouldn't have worked

[ladykrystyna]

Originally Posted by Voldemorts8thHorcrux

It might have worked without Meyer talking about how imprinting might be because of making stronger wolf babies. Something that would make more sense to me would be that imprinting makes the wolves less depressed which makes them feel better about themselves and solves internal disputes, but then again, then Sam and Emily wouldn't have worked

How about this: Imprinting in general seems to be about carrying on the species in the best way possible. Whatever the "source" of the imprinting, perhaps imprinting on a vampire was meant more to solidify the truce and union between the wolves and the vampires and therefore end a centuries long, if not millenial long blood feud between the two species. Like a Prince of one country marrying the Princess of another, which has been done since time immemorial, probably even before written history, in order to solidify relationsips with neighboring tribes and then countries, etc.

[phoenix88]

Originally Posted by ladykrystyna

How about this: Imprinting in general seems to be about carrying on the species in the best way possible. Whatever the "source" of the imprinting, perhaps imprinting on a vampire was meant more to solidify the truce and union between the wolves and the vampires and therefore end a centuries long, if not millenial long blood feud between the two species. Like a Prince of one country marrying the Princess of another, which has been done since time immemorial, probably even before written history, in order to solidify relationsips with neighboring tribes and then countries, etc.

That's a possibility. There's always the chance though that nessie could have a child before she's permanently "fixed" so to speak.

I loved that Edward held onto his old fashioned traits! The fact that he wanted to save their virtues was more romantic to me than any male i've personally met. The pressures as a teenager are huge, and it was a breath of fresh air to have the main male not be so...eager? I loved that about Edward =)

I thought that was one of his most endearing qualities as well! When do you ever find a male who cares about "saving their virtues"? It was a refreshing role reversal.

I think at one point Stephenie had a blurb on her site of his New Moon. He was in a sewer in Italy...or something to that effect. It was when he got Rose's call, up to the "he's at the funeral" bit i think. It was really good! I really hope she at least gives us Midnight Sun!

That's right- I really enjoyed that excerpt!

Seriously!!! And Bella ended up liking their dance i thought it was so sweet! it's another example of Bella and Edward's role reversal! The girl usually wants to go to prom, and the guy begs not to and eventually does the whole "if i must" thing. Just like the whole "virtue" flop.

Exactly- another nice change from our typical male/female stereotypes!

i still love the series, and Bella seems good at heart. So i'm fine with her! But that doesn't mean i don't see the flaws
haha...if that's what we're calling the middle...

I feel the same way about bella too. She is definitely flawed but has a good heart.

[snowytheduhawk]

on the subject of Renesmee and having children, I think it makes sense. I noticed the last time reading BD that Carlisle says Jacob has 24 chromosomal pairs. That's halfway between vampire and human, and it makes sense that this would be the same number for Renesmee (especially considering the fact that both the werewolves (shape-shifters) and Renesmee are invisible to Alice) since she's half and half. If we look at that, it would make sense for Jacob to imprint on her. The only question is whether or not her body will menstruate once she's full-grown. Since she is half human, I think it's possible for her to remain forever fertile, as her body remains forever alive.

Remember that blood brings food and oxygen to cells and carries away waste. If Renesmee's body uses blood, it can only mean that her cells process food into waste, thus changing. Now, the reason that we age is that our cells have a maximum number for multiplication. Each cell will only split so many times before it quits. An elderly person's heart gives out because the cells stop splitting, so there are no new ones to replace the dying. The process from infancy to adulthood is not aging, but progression - cell multiplication is higher than cell death. Aging is decline. What happens to Renesmee is only progression, but decline is impossible for her. Why? Probably because her cells keep splitting and reproducing forever. The old cells die, but they never stop splitting. I think that means her body changes, so I think she'll menstruate forever.

[phoenix88]

Originally Posted by snowytheduhawk

on the subject of Renesmee and having children, I think it makes sense. I noticed the last time reading BD that Carlisle says Jacob has 24 chromosomal pairs. That's halfway between vampire and human, and it makes sense that this would be the same number for Renesmee (especially considering the fact that both the werewolves (shape-shifters) and Renesmee are invisible to Alice) since she's half and half. If we look at that, it would make sense for Jacob to imprint on her. The only question is whether or not her body will menstruate once she's full-grown. Since she is half human, I think it's possible for her to remain forever fertile, as her body remains forever alive.

Remember that blood brings food and oxygen to cells and carries away waste. If Renesmee's body uses blood, it can only mean that her cells process food into waste, thus changing. Now, the reason that we age is that our cells have a maximum number for multiplication. Each cell will only split so many times before it quits. An elderly person's heart gives out because the cells stop splitting, so there are no new ones to replace the dying. The process from infancy to adulthood is not aging, but progression - cell multiplication is higher than cell death. Aging is decline. What happens to Renesmee is only progression, but decline is impossible for her. Why? Probably because her cells keep splitting and reproducing forever. The old cells die, but they never stop splitting. I think that means her body changes, so I think she'll menstruate forever.

Hmmm, I see what you mean. I suppose for as long as renesmee is half human, there should always be a part of her that should be fertile.

[vampiricduck]

Yes, I suppose this is likely correct. Mind you, I'm not sure that a story would ever come from it. Perhaps we will get an answer to this in the upcoming Official Guide.. But I'm not sure.