The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

[MC2456]

Wow, nice ideas on the Nessie thing. I was thinking about it the other day, and here you guys have come up with so many theories. It's cool looking at this thread once in a while.

As for the part where Bella wouldn't let Nessie have a baby, well, I'll personally kill her if she does that. I have enough of her hypocritical nature. It's definitely OK for you to run off with the guy you love and lie to your parents (and saying that your mom's faint-hearted and what-not), but it's not OK for your best friend (whose heart you have trodden to bits) to imprint on your daughter. What is wrong with that girl? I'd never, ever want to be Bella, no matter what Steph says about her being the ideal girl.

[Voldemorts8thHorcrux]

The people on this site always have the best theories . And our teachers call whatever we do "analyzing", pfft.

And yeah, I know exactly what you mean MC! I mean, I can understand Bella's parents since it was a failed relationship but Bella knows that Nessie and Jake will be happy forever or at least in love forever. And seriously? Steph thinks Bella is the ideal girl?!?! i'm never going to become Bella if I can help it. I would end up permanently hating myself if I did...

Originally Posted by ladykrystyna

How about this: Imprinting in general seems to be about carrying on the species in the best way possible. Whatever the "source" of the imprinting, perhaps imprinting on a vampire was meant more to solidify the truce and union between the wolves and the vampires and therefore end a centuries long, if not millenial long blood feud between the two species. Like a Prince of one country marrying the Princess of another, which has been done since time immemorial, probably even before written history, in order to solidify relationsips with neighboring tribes and then countries, etc.

Yeah, that does make sense.

Originally Posted by snowytheduhawk

on the subject of Renesmee and having children, I think it makes sense. I noticed the last time reading BD that Carlisle says Jacob has 24 chromosomal pairs. That's halfway between vampire and human, and it makes sense that this would be the same number for Renesmee (especially considering the fact that both the werewolves (shape-shifters) and Renesmee are invisible to Alice) since she's half and half. If we look at that, it would make sense for Jacob to imprint on her. The only question is whether or not her body will menstruate once she's full-grown. Since she is half human, I think it's possible for her to remain forever fertile, as her body remains forever alive.

Just like to point out that Meyer's universe is pretty screwy at the biology part, since apparently vamps and humans can reproduce even though the chromosome numbers are different. And wolves and humans can produce fertile offspring despite chromosome differences, which is supposed to be biologically impossible.

Remember that blood brings food and oxygen to cells and carries away waste. If Renesmee's body uses blood, it can only mean that her cells process food into waste, thus changing. Now, the reason that we age is that our cells have a maximum number for multiplication. Each cell will only split so many times before it quits. An elderly person's heart gives out because the cells stop splitting, so there are no new ones to replace the dying. The process from infancy to adulthood is not aging, but progression - cell multiplication is higher than cell death. Aging is decline. What happens to Renesmee is only progression, but decline is impossible for her. Why? Probably because her cells keep splitting and reproducing forever. The old cells die, but they never stop splitting. I think that means her body changes, so I think she'll menstruate forever.

that's an amazing theory, but the problem is that what about vampires? do their cells never age and die or split? if that was true, then they wouldn't need blood, but they and nessie do. Also, Nessie is supposed to become very similar to a vampire once she grows enough, she's supposed to become frozen in time. Actually, scratch that, I think we should compare Nessie to werewolves. ok, even if we did that, vampires would be the odd one out.

[Caliope]

Did I miss something? Is there a reason Nessie needs to procreate? Or are we just assuming that, because she's female, and important, she must be into the baby-making thing just like all the other females in the series? (Apart from Alice, who is awesome?)

[Voldemorts8thHorcrux]

We're discussing the plothole about how leah thinks that the reason imprinting occurs is to create better werewolves in the next generation, but Jake imprints on Nessie, and Nessie is supposed to be frozen in time like the vamps so she shouldn't be able to reproduce

[vampiricduck]

Originally Posted by Voldemorts8thHorcrux

We're discussing the plothole about how leah thinks that the reason imprinting occurs is to create better werewolves in the next generation, but Jake imprints on Nessie, and Nessie is supposed to be frozen in time like the vamps so she shouldn't be able to reproduce

That made things a great deal clearer. I too was rather confused as to how we got to talking about that!

I suppose that for me what it comes down to is "Leah thinks"- we don't know whether she's right or not. Nobody truly knows the reason why werewolves imprint, right? Maybe they do and I can't recall though?

[Voldemorts8thHorcrux]

well, it's also what the author wants us to think, which would make it a plothole.

[sirius_lee_G]

Originally Posted by MC2456

Wow, nice ideas on the Nessie thing. I was thinking about it the other day, and here you guys have come up with so many theories. It's cool looking at this thread once in a while.

As for the part where Bella wouldn't let Nessie have a baby, well, I'll personally kill her if she does that. I have enough of her hypocritical nature. It's definitely OK for you to run off with the guy you love and lie to your parents (and saying that your mom's faint-hearted and what-not), but it's not OK for your best friend (whose heart you have trodden to bits) to imprint on your daughter. What is wrong with that girl? I'd never, ever want to be Bella, no matter what Steph says about her being the ideal girl.

I totallyt see what you're saying
And I don't agree with Steph either about her being the ideal girl...

[Caliope]

Originally Posted by Voldemorts8thHorcrux

We're discussing the plothole about how leah thinks that the reason imprinting occurs is to create better werewolves in the next generation, but Jake imprints on Nessie, and Nessie is supposed to be frozen in time like the vamps so she shouldn't be able to reproduce

Oooooh - thanks!! haha, I was enjoying the discussion, but totally missed how/why it got brought up.

I believe I'm on the 'well she's part human, so maybe it's possible' side of the fence with this. Technically, she's the ultimate fantasy creature with all the 'best' qualities of being a vampire and being a human. Knowing SM, I bet being able to bear children is part of that equation.

(I also disagree about Bella being the ideal girl, hehe - Alice pwns her left, right and center. She can decorate and accessorize like a pro, she can kick butt in battle, and she doesn't whine about not being able to have children with Jasper - who is the ideal male, surely.)

[Moriath]

As I see it, it couldn't possibly work. Jacob and Nessie may have 24 pairs of chromosomes but to assume that they're the same or even compatible would be a stretch. Mind you, I'm pretty sure that Meyer didn't think this through.

[vampiricduck]

Originally Posted by Moriath

As I see it, it couldn't possibly work. Jacob and Nessie may have 24 pairs of chromosomes but to assume that they're the same or even compatible would be a stretch. Mind you, I'm pretty sure that Meyer didn't think this through.

That's what I was thinking, because Jacob and Nessie are totally different from one another in every single way, and so I assumed that the chromosome pairs, though the same number, would not be the actual same. But again, unless Meyer has a penchant for creating children from impossibilities, I can't see her ever straying down that path with the characters really. Nessie was a risky enough storyline, in my opinion.

[Tahla]

I believe I would have liked Nessie more( or the story for that matter) if she was an uncontrollable being who tries to kill everyone the minute she was out. They would have been forced to kill her then, and the happy ending wouldn't have been so perfect. Or that Bella would have to take care of this dangerous being but at the end it was too much and she had to make a drastic decision. Jacob would have to deal with a broken heart, he wouldn't have imprinted and probably start forming a relationship with Leah, Edward would have to take care of an emotionally distressed Bella, and all the other Cullens would be there to help Edward. Or something like that because I really dislike happy endings when everything falls in place because that is just not realistic.

Nessie is just a prime example of a Mary Sue character. I really wish that she could have been the opposite.

[sirius_lee_G]

Originally Posted by Moriath

As I see it, it couldn't possibly work. Jacob and Nessie may have 24 pairs of chromosomes but to assume that they're the same or even compatible would be a stretch. Mind you, I'm pretty sure that Meyer didn't think this through.

Maybe she wanted the happily ever after ending where everyone has someone.

[Voldemorts8thHorcrux]

Originally Posted by Tahla

I believe I would have liked Nessie more( or the story for that matter) if she was an uncontrollable being who tries to kill everyone the minute she was out. They would have been forced to kill her then, and the happy ending wouldn't have been so perfect. Or that Bella would have to take care of this dangerous being but at the end it was too much and she had to make a drastic decision. Jacob would have to deal with a broken heart, he wouldn't have imprinted and probably start forming a relationship with Leah, Edward would have to take care of an emotionally distressed Bella, and all the other Cullens would be there to help Edward. Or something like that because I really dislike happy endings when everything falls in place because that is just not realistic.

Nessie is just a prime example of a Mary Sue character. I really wish that she could have been the opposite.

I don't dislike happy endings. I dislike perfect happy endings. Harry Potter was bad enough, but at least JKR could kill off Fred. Meyer couldn't do any of that.

[merry18]

Originally Posted by Voldemorts8thHorcrux

I don't dislike happy endings. I dislike perfect happy endings. Harry Potter was bad enough, but at least JKR could kill off Fred. Meyer couldn't do any of that.

Yeah. I totally agree. You could tell JKR didn't want to kill off a lot of her characters, but at least she killed some of them. BD just ended so peachily with everyone so happy and perfect...it was just really disappointing. It sucks when characters you like die, but it also makes for a better book because it makes it more believable, even in fantasies.

[Voldemorts8thHorcrux]

Originally Posted by merry18

Yeah. I totally agree. You could tell JKR didn't want to kill off a lot of her characters, but at least she killed some of them. BD just ended so peachily with everyone so happy and perfect...it was just really disappointing. It sucks when characters you like die, but it also makes for a better book because it makes it more believable, even in fantasies.

actually, I think more should've died, I mean, it was a war! But you can tell there were lots of casualties and everything. I guess it was ok that Jake got his bones broken but the final battle made me really annoyed

[Rebel]

was it really so unexpected though? no one died at the end of any of the other books. At least with HP you could expect at least one character to die each book, and she told us it would be a blood bath in the last one. No one dies in any of the first 3 books, and I never heard Meyer claim she would kill anyone

I think the end was disappointing too, i'd love to see one of her characters bite it lol

[phoenix88]

Originally Posted by Rebel

was it really so unexpected though? no one died at the end of any of the other books. At least with HP you could expect at least one character to die each book, and she told us it would be a blood bath in the last one. No one dies in any of the first 3 books, and I never heard Meyer claim she would kill anyone

I think the end was disappointing too, i'd love to see one of her characters bite it lol

Yeah, I do think there should have been more of a faceoff with the volturi, but if there had been a battle some of the cullens would have surely died. It would have been sad, but not any less than hp. Sometimes it does make for a stronger story.

Then again, I still find it hard to believe she would just end the series this way despite her saying otherwise. First of all, I don't see how the story could be finished with the volturi still at large. They will undoubtedly hunt down the cullens and their allies again- even edward predicts that at the end of BD. Having the volturi just run off would be like leaving voldemort alive at the end of deathly hallows. Plus, SM's books are significantly more popular now because of the movie. It reminds me of what happened with hp, where once SS came out, a horde of new fans came on and followed the release of ootp, etc. Stopping at BD is almost like ending at GoF. It's finally clear that the volturi want to decimate the cullens. This was just a setback for them. They had to retreat in this instance but they were not defeated by any means.

[Moriath]

Originally Posted by sirius_lee_G

Maybe she wanted the happily ever after ending where everyone has someone.

Well, obviously. But the question is at what cost? She boycotted her own characters and story lines by explicitly contradicting canon.

[sirius_lee_G]

Originally Posted by Moriath

Well, obviously. But the question is at what cost? She boycotted her own characters and story lines by explicitly contradicting canon.

I agree with you and I actually wish there was something bad just to give it a twist
But even then there would be fans who wanted that one charcter to live or something like that.

[vampiricduck]

Originally Posted by Moriath

Well, obviously. But the question is at what cost? She boycotted her own characters and story lines by explicitly contradicting canon.

And along with that, which I entirely agree with, the point was made above that she never finished the story. I wanted to hear more and see more of how the Volturi fell. It's sort of as though Big Brother wins out in the end, get mildly rebuked and go back to ruling the world the next day, just as strong and unhindered as ever.

Which is all fine and well if the intention is to build something Orwellian. But in a romance-vampire story, it wasn't exactly expected, to be honest. Especially since the Volturi Survival didn't actually stand for anything as it would have in a dystopia novel. I simply expected them to be more punished and punishable.