The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

[BubblyShell22]

Yeah, I agree about the imprinting thing. It just seems sort of unfair that the werewolves have no choice about it and just imprint on a random girl. The exception is Jared and Kim, who have liked each other for a long time. I would be creeped out if I had to imprint on a two-year-old. But, like Jacob says, it's more of a brotherly relationship for a while because of the age difference, so I can understand that.

As for BD, I agree. I would've liked to see at least one death in there to indicate some sort of sacrifice or a big battle. Too bad it didn't happen.

[crookshanks1177]

Imprinting all together creeped me out. I get pretty creeped out by the idea of not having free will though.

[bellatrix93]

Originally Posted by AldeberanBlack

Charlie further goes on to make excuses for Jacob’s actions, telling his own daughter that Jacob is only young and that she should still remain friends with him. It’s mindboggling

I remember finding that part really annoying. Even though Charlie was very partial to Jacob, mainly because he disliked Edward for leaving Bella in the previous book and was glad when she got out of her near-coma by being friends with Jacob, I thought it was the most out-of character thing Charlie had done throughout the series, .

[Wab]

Originally Posted by Goddess_Clio

The one thing I will say that is positive about these books and that I will go to my grave defending is that there is a good idea in them. "What would happen if a vampire and a human fell in love?"

GOOD IDEA!

BADLY WRITTEN!

And not original.

[AldeberanBlack]

“Breaking Dawn”

The novel does not get off to a good start. The first four pages mainly focus on describing Bella’s new car. I had a bad feeling that much of this book would be devoted to the planning and execution of a wedding and honeymoon. My feeling was eventually confirmed. Although to be fair, the wedding and honeymoon are far more entertaining than the content of the rest of the book, which is truly dreadful. After four books, I have come to the conclusion that the Twilight series does not contain a story. At the most, it’s merely an anthology. A leads to B followed by C then D etc…It’s no more a story than it would be if a person described getting out of bed, getting washed and dressed, going to buy some shoes, buying the shoes, and then returning home. At times, this series reads like a cross between the personal fantasies of the author, and a Buffy The Vampire Slayer fan-fiction where the two lead characters have been stripped of all their personality. Bella Swan is Buffy Summers, without the fighting ability and attitude. Edward Cullen is Angel. Both are brooding vampires who loves the lead female character although Edward is far wimpier. Forks is an overcast version of Sunnydale, in that it is seemingly a magnet for monsters.

The Mary Sue nature of Bella Swan is once again apparent in this novel, and Meyer takes it to greater heights than ever before. Apparently everyone in Forks is obsessed by the wedding of Bella Swan and Edward Cullen, a marriage between a weird anti-social boy, and a withdrawn anti-social girl, neither of which have expressed the slightest appreciation for the town or the people within it, despite the people being far friendlier than they should be. All of Bella’s friends are at the wedding. I’m not sure why though. She shouldn’t really be that important to them, due to the fact that in the previous three books, she has barely tolerated their existence and has found their welcoming and friendly natures to be bothersome to her. The way Bella is treated in this series has never made sense. No reason is ever provided why she’s so popular. This series may have made more coherent sense if Bella was a troubled anti-social teen, a person who has suffered by being a child of a broken marriage who moves to Forks to live with her father after her mother dies (which would eliminate the pointless Rene from the series). Upon arriving in Forks, Bella should have been rejected by the kids at school. This would alienate and marginalise her and make her lonely. This is why she would gravitate towards Edward (who never should have attended any human school but rather lived in the nearby woods with his adopted vampire family), who should have been portrayed as a lonely character in his own right, a lost soul who has never known love. His attachment to the Cullens would be his way of trying to find a family relationship that he never had as a human. This would be a much better basis for the relationship between Edward and Bella than the way it was portrayed in the actual novel series, which to me is based on nothing except superficial attraction. Their relationship should have been developed in a much healthier way than the way it was.

Meyer spends a large amount of this book describing the wealth of the Cullens. In fact, in the first third of this book, I almost forgot that Edward Cullen was a vampire at all. He comes across as simply a really rich guy who is dazzling Bella with his wealth by buying her expensive cars, taking her on honeymoon to his private island, and throwing a wedding and reception which is slightly less tasteful and more self-indulgent than the Kim Kardashian wedding to that basketball player. I wonder if Bella Swan would be so enamoured with Edward Cullen if he wasn’t fantastically wealthy? There’s an unusual line where Bella mentions that she finds it hard to accept Edward as her husband because the word “husband” seems too commonplace and mundane to be applied to him. Why would that be more commonplace and mundane than “high school student” which she never seemed to have a problem with.

During the wedding reception, Jacob makes a surprise appearance. This charming faithful friend, beloved by Charlie Swan, gets angry and grabs Bella’s arms so tightly she feels that the blood can no longer flow down to her hands and Jacob has to be removed by his werewolf brothers and Edward Cullen. Keep in mind this takes place during a dance at Bella’s wedding reception attended by Bella’s parents, where Bella apparently STILL isn’t safe from his abusive behaviour. As I expected, Bella eventually overlooks this and remains friends with him.

There is unintentional comedy in this book. The fact that Meyer builds up the first sexual experience for Bella and Edward only to completely skip over the actual sex scenes in the novel is hilarious. I honestly checked my book to see if a few pages were missing. I find it funny that Meyer has spent so much time describing trivial things to an extreme extent in this series, yet the sex scenes (which are supposed to be a profound moment for both characters) are never mentioned. The reader only gets to hear about the aftermath, which brings me to my next point. During sex with Edward Cullen, Bella Swan suffers injuries, in the form of bruises. I think it’s creepy how these injuries are glossed over by Meyer. At times, it seems as though they are being romanticised. It’s all very strange. For the most part, the honeymoon part of the book is tedious. To put it simply, they have sex and then have breakfast. Repeat that a couple of times and you’ve got the jist of it.

The random discussion concerning Volturi policy towards child vampires is an example of blatant lampshading (a reference to something made early in a story which will be relevant later in the story). Meyer may as well have removed it entirely from the novel and written “EDWARD AND BELLA ARE GOING TO HAVE A BABY LATER” in huge red writing. As it happens, Bella’s pregnancy comes across like something from “The Omen”. I swear I heard the theme song in my mind when Bella discovered her condition. Bella’s transformation from depressed emo into a devoted mother willing to do anything to bear Edward’s child just doesn’t work. The transformation is too quick, and Bella had previously never offered even the slightest indication that children mattered to her. In fact, other than being obsessed with appearance, I don’t think anything matters to her. The fact Bella can become pregnant by a vampire raises some questions. Does Edward even have sperm? Do female vampires have eggs? If so, then why don’t they procreate regularly? Why would Carlisle need to build an adopted family if vampires can procreate naturally? If male vampires are capable of having a child with a human female, then can female vampires have children with human males?

The subject of procreation is relevant to the werewolves too. Why is Leah sterile? So male werewolves can father children but female werewolves can’t bear them? That makes no sense. In fact, speaking of male werewolves being able to father children, the scene where Edward and Jacob barter over aborting Bella’s demon baby, and then impregnating Bella with Jacob’s baby, without even consulting her, is also disturbing. Again, it indicates the low status of women in these novels. Almost universally women are portrayed in these novels in a very negative light, which might be surprising given the gender of the author.

The jump in perspective from Bella to Jacob is interesting and does at least provide some relief from Bella’s tedious narration. Unfortunately it doesn’t last. I found the scenes between Quil and Claire (a two year old child he has “imprinted” upon/bonded with) to be unsettling. It sounds an awful lot like grooming. The fact Meyer writes all Claire’s dialogue in childspeak makes it all the more creepy. What would happen if a werewolf imprinted on a girl, and she rejected him? How would she be treated by her community? Meyer never bothers to provide an explanation so I can only presume that unsurprisingly given the other examples of female weakness in this series, imprinted-upon girls will ultimately submit. It’s also creepy the way that Jacob imprints upon the demon baby, or rather, the way IT imprints on him. It almost brainwashes him and claims him as its own. Jacob’s blonde jokes are funny. I’ll admit that. Bella’s reaction to Jacob’s imprinting upon the demon baby is hypocritical. She reacts with outrage over something that (as creepy as it may be) is an involuntary trait of being a werewolf. She never expressed any kind of outrage over Edward’s vampirism. I think if Edward told her that he had imprinted on her, Bella would have accepted it without question. So her reaction to Jacob in this case smacks of double standards.

The werewolf dialogue scenes are boring. They drag on for too long, which is a Meyer trait. The relationship between Jacob and the Cullens (minus Rosalie who morphs into an insane baby-obsessed lunatic, yet another poor portrayal of a female character) improves. Edward’s offer to Jacob to provide him with a home, clothes, a car and food seems friendly. If Edward and Jacob had been portrayed this well from the start of the series, their characters would have been more sympathetic. Edward does however, for some bizarre reason, go back to calling Jacob a dog and a mongrel, which makes his earlier friendliness totally pointless. Meyer does however do a good job with the character of Seth, who bonds with the Cullens and accepts them with complete tolerance, and for the most part, they return the feelings. I liked Seth. He was a nice character. There’s a nice scene between Alice and Jacob. Maybe they should have been a couple at the end? It would have been significantly less weird than Jacob and the demon baby being destined for each other, and would have been a stronger example of emerging tolerance between vampires and werewolves.

The theme of motherhood and womanhood in general, is rather warped in this series. Bella’s mother is an airhead. Bella has to be a mother to her mom and dad. Bella assumes stereotypical mother or housewife behaviours such as cooking and cleaning. Bella has no interests outside of her boyfriend and husband. Esme tried to kill herself after losing a baby. Rosalie’s life seems to revolve around a desire for a baby. Bella is willing to die in order to give birth. Leah’s transformation into a werewolf comes at the cost of her fertility. Emily is a mother figure to the wolf boys even after her werewolf boyfriend ripped off half her face when he was angry, behaviour which of course Emily forgives, because in the Meyer series all abusive behaviour from men is overlooked and forgiven by their female victims.

Once again, Alice’s main responsibility is the novel is based on make-up and clothing. I also notice that her super powers are weak and unreliable compared to the powers of the male vampires, such as Jasper and Edward. Women are not portrayed well in these novels. The Cullen family is larger than it needs to be. Emmett and Jasper should have been merged to form one character, as should Alice and Rosalie. Bella’s mother should never have been included in this series. She serves no purpose whatsoever. As I mentioned earlier, she should have been killed off before the series began. If she had been excluded from the series, then Esme could have had a useful role as being a sort of surrogate mother for Bella, to replace the one she lost. Charlie has virtually nothing to do in this book. He should have been killed off. It would have removed the inevitable plot problem that would come when Bella had to explain to him that she was a vampire. As it happens, her explanation is vague and absurd. No sane person would have accepted it without further questioning. It makes no sense for Charlie to be perfectly fine with being told that werewolves exist, but the Cullens being hesitant to tell them that they are vampires and so is his daughter.

Meyer spends 21 pages describing Bella’s transformation into a vampire. Most of which is simply a description of different ways of experiencing heat. I will give Meyer credit to some extent. She does a good job describing Bella’s first hunt as a vampire. It does give a good impression to the reader of what the sensation of sharper senses and greater physical abilities would be like. But it gets old really quickly. I don’t think Bella actually becomes a vampire. She simply transforms from Mary Sue into SUPER Mary Sue. If you got sick of the other characters worshipping Bella when she was a human, trust me, it’s nothing compared to how they regard her when she becomes a vampire.

The central focus of this novel is based on the human/vampire hybrid offspring that Bella and Edward have. The part of the novel which describes the birth of the demon baby is horrific. I am confused as to why the demon baby ages so quickly. It should really age slowly due to its half-vampire side, or age normally due to its half-human side. I don’t understand why it would age quicker than both humans AND vampires. Predictably the demon baby is a Mary Sue, like its mother and father. An idealised messiah-like child who is dazzlingly beautiful (no surprise there since beauty in the Meyer universes equates to goodness), can do everything perfectly, and is worshipped by all the other characters, no more than Jacob, as I mentioned earlier. The way that the other vampire clans from around the world converge on Forks to defend the demon baby is ridiculous. They have no logical reason to do so. BTW, Meyer makes it very clear that the visiting vampires hunt people. Bella is so wary of the danger they pose to human beings that she will not allow her human father to visit the Cullen home while the visitors are staying there. The only compromise they offer the Cullens is that they won’t hunt anyone in the state of Washington (since it would attract unwanted attention from law enforcement and the werewolves, who regard human-hunting as an act of war). So basically the Cullens are willing to sacrifice countless human lives in order to defend ONE demon baby.

The build up to the Volturi visit is tedious. It accounts for basically the last half of the book. The parts with the lawyer are a total waste of time and seem to exist only for yet another character to gush over how beautiful Bella is. Too many new characters are introduced in this novel. The “witnesses” are so numerous that it’s almost impossible to keep track of them. Most are given little more than an introduction and they are of no further importance. In fact, there are so many of them, Meyer has to create an index for them at the end of the novel. In any case, they were unnecessary. The Volturi simply could have searched for birth records to discover if the demon baby was born human and turned (illegally by their laws) into a vampire (becoming an “immortal child” in their terminology). In the absence of such records they should have concluded that it was born naturally to Bella and Edward and therefore could only be a hybrid and not in violation of their laws and its destruction would not be justified.

The ending is laughable. Alice and Jasper finding another half breed aged 150 years old (thus proving that they can live long lives without being a threat to anyone) is little more than deux ex machina. This book could have ended with Bella becoming a vampire, the birth of the demon baby, a message of congratulations from the Volturi, and the reader wouldn’t have missed much. The novel was twice as long as it needed to be. Ultimately I feel that Bella should never have become pregnant. It simply introduced yet another Mary Sue into the series. She never should have married Edward and certainly should never have become a vampire. This novel should have ended with Bella choosing neither Edward nor Jacob and choosing instead to live out her life as a human being, while promising to never reveal the existence of vampires and werewolves to anyone. I felt Meyer took on too much by including vampires AND werewolves in this series. She should have picked one of them and focused on them. All the novels could quite easily have been adapted to focus entirely on just vampires or werewolves, and it would probably IMO have improved the overall coherency of the universe Meyer created.

[Goddess_Clio]

Originally Posted by Wab

And not original.

Nothing in this book was original: Edward was a poorly written, less sympathetic Louis from Interview with a Vampire and the first time I read (*ahme* listened to) the books that's all I could think. "Edward is a crummy version of Louis." And, later, "Renesme (sp?) is a crummy version of Claudia." The various "bad vampires" take turns as the Lestat figure, including all of the Cullens once Bella becomes a vampire herself, and the Volturi represent Armand and his coven.

Been there, done that. Just read Interview with a Vampire, it's a far better book.

Originally Posted by AldeberanBlack

The Mary Sue nature of Bella Swan is once again apparent in this novel, and Meyer takes it to greater heights than ever before. Apparently everyone in Forks is obsessed by the wedding of Bella Swan and Edward Cullen, a marriage between a weird anti-social boy, and a withdrawn anti-social girl, neither of which have expressed the slightest appreciation for the town or the people within it, despite the people being far friendlier than they should be. All of Bella’s friends are at the wedding. I’m not sure why though. She shouldn’t really be that important to them, due to the fact that in the previous three books, she has barely tolerated their existence and has found their welcoming and friendly natures to be bothersome to her. The way Bella is treated in this series has never made sense. No reason is ever provided why she’s so popular.

The reason I suspect the marriage of Bella and Edward is so interesting to the town is because nothing else ever happens there. The entire town of Forks is one big Jessica who only attend the wedding so they can gossip about it later. I agree that Bella wasn't in any sort of position to become popular and (having begun Twilight over in the last couple days for utter lack of any other new audiobook to listen to at work) it mystifies me why all the boys seem to be drawn to her. Is she secreting irresistible pheromones or something? Bella and Edward's relationship seems completely superficial, only to be reinforced by my recent re-reading; she "falls in love" with him after simply asking him about his vampireness on an hour-long drive home. Puh-lease.

Their relationship should have been developed in a much healthier way than the way it was.

Actually, it simply needed to be developed, full stop. They needed a reason to fall in love with each other besides him being a Greek god and him thinking she smelled good and wanted to suck her blood. Take away his good looks and vampirism and they never would have given each other a second glance.

Meyer spends a large amount of this book describing the wealth of the Cullens. In fact, in the first third of this book, I almost forgot that Edward Cullen was a vampire at all. He comes across as simply a really rich guy who is dazzling Bella with his wealth by buying her expensive cars, taking her on honeymoon to his private island, and throwing a wedding and reception which is slightly less tasteful and more self-indulgent than the Kim Kardashian wedding to that basketball player. I wonder if Bella Swan would be so enamoured with Edward Cullen if he wasn’t fantastically wealthy?

I suspect Bella would have been enamoured with Edward regardless of his wealth; she doesn’t find out that he’s rich for quite some time. Now, would she have fallen in love with him had he looked like Willem Defoe? Or Vicent Schiavelli? I doubt it. Bella loved that Edward was beautiful.

There is unintentional comedy in this book. The fact that Meyer builds up the first sexual experience for Bella and Edward only to completely skip over the actual sex scenes in the novel is hilarious. I honestly checked my book to see if a few pages were missing. I find it funny that Meyer has spent so much time describing trivial things to an extreme extent in this series, yet the sex scenes (which are supposed to be a profound moment for both characters) are never mentioned. The reader only gets to hear about the aftermath, which brings me to my next point. During sex with Edward Cullen, Bella Swan suffers injuries, in the form of bruises. I think it’s creepy how these injuries are glossed over by Meyer. At times, it seems as though they are being romanticised. It’s all very strange. For the most part, the honeymoon part of the book is tedious. To put it simply, they have sex and then have breakfast. Repeat that a couple of times and you’ve got the jist of it.

In order to hit her target audience (adolescent teen girls) she had to cut graphic sex scenes so parents wouldn’t flip out. The price you pay for writing teen romance.

I will say one thing: I commend Meyer for maintaining a stand against sex-before-marriage and setting an example for her audience when every teen TV show has their characters hooking up left and right. While I don’t think it’s realistic to expect teens to abstain, I give her props for sticking to her guns on this issue, even though it came at the expense of making Edward even less of a believable character than he already was.

Bella’s transformation from depressed emo into a devoted mother willing to do anything to bear Edward’s child just doesn’t work. The transformation is too quick, and Bella had previously never offered even the slightest indication that children mattered to her. In fact, other than being obsessed with appearance, I don’t think anything matters to her.

This was bizarre to me, too. I’ve never really cared for kids nor wanted to have any and it would take a good couple months to the entire pregnancy for me to come to grips with being a mother, I think, especially if it’s an unplanned pregnancy. It’s like a switch in Bella’s head was flipped: “Oh, I’m going to have a devil-baby, I must love it!” Again, puh-lease.

I invite mothers to weigh in on this issue, cause all I have are opinions of how I, not a mother, would react.

The fact Bella can become pregnant by a vampire raises some questions. Does Edward even have sperm? Do female vampires have eggs? If so, then why don’t they procreate regularly? Why would Carlisle need to build an adopted family if vampires can procreate naturally? If male vampires are capable of having a child with a human female, then can female vampires have children with human males?

I think this is clumsily handled in the books. Why wouldn’t a female vampire be able to have a baby? Female sterilization in these books is disturbing. I’m not even entirely sure Meyer was aware of the developing theme in the books and just went with it because these books don’t really go anywhere.

Almost universally women are portrayed in these novels in a very negative light, which might be surprising given the gender of the author.

I think this point negates the pro-abstinence stand Meyer takes in the books. She’s basically subverting Bella and having her life be decided by which boyfriend is the bigger pig head. I like Jacob more as a character than Edward, he has more redeeming qualities and is more believably likable and more believably flawed than Edward is, but they both have serious control and abuse issues. So long as Edward is around Bella would be in an abusive, controlling relationship, either with Edward who won’t allow her to see Jacob or with Jacob who won’t allow her to see Edward.

The theme of motherhood and womanhood in general, is rather warped in this series. Bella’s mother is an airhead. Bella has to be a mother to her mom and dad. Bella assumes stereotypical mother or housewife behaviours such as cooking and cleaning. Bella has no interests outside of her boyfriend and husband. Esme tried to kill herself after losing a baby. Rosalie’s life seems to revolve around a desire for a baby. Bella is willing to die in order to give birth. Leah’s transformation into a werewolf comes at the cost of her fertility. Emily is a mother figure to the wolf boys even after her werewolf boyfriend ripped off half her face when he was angry, behaviour which of course Emily forgives, because in the Meyer series all abusive behaviour from men is overlooked and forgiven by their female victims.

Bella is made out to be a servile Stepford wife, only sallow skinned and sulky. Not a very good character to have carry a book whose target audience is teenaged girls.

The Cullen family is larger than it needs to be. Emmett and Jasper should have been merged to form one character, as should Alice and Rosalie.

Agreed.

Bella’s mother should never have been included in this series. She serves no purpose whatsoever. As I mentioned earlier, she should have been killed off before the series began. If she had been excluded from the series, then Esme could have had a useful role as being a sort of surrogate mother for Bella, to replace the one she lost

I think this would have given Bella a more believable reason to be sullen and withdrawn than simply, “I hate the rain.” I think, though, rather than as you say before that all of the kids should have been rejecting her, her grief for her mother would have caused her to keep her distance from other people. Killing off her mother, though, would have completely changed the books, IMO. It wouldn’t be a romance, it would be a story of a girl’s grief.

If you got sick of the other characters worshipping Bella when she was a human, trust me, it’s nothing compared to how they regard her when she becomes a vampire.

I am repeatedly baffled by the other characters’ fascination with Bella. She’s simply not interesting. At all.

Meyer makes it very clear that the visiting vampires hunt people. Bella is so wary of the danger they pose to human beings that she will not allow her human father to visit the Cullen home while the visitors are staying there. The only compromise they offer the Cullens is that they won’t hunt anyone in the state of Washington (since it would attract unwanted attention from law enforcement and the werewolves, who regard human-hunting as an act of war). So basically the Cullens are willing to sacrifice countless human lives in order to defend ONE demon baby.

Which makes the entire Cullen clan and Bella complete hypocrites. They may as well go back to hunting humans themselves if they are condoning their vampire friends’ hunting habits.

The ending is laughable. Alice and Jasper finding another half breed aged 150 years old (thus proving that they can live long lives without being a threat to anyone) is little more than deux ex machina. This book could have ended with Bella becoming a vampire, the birth of the demon baby, a message of congratulations from the Volturi, and the reader wouldn’t have missed much.

This was the second-worst ending to a book I’ve ever read (the first being a story about a plane crash “five years earlier” which took a sharp left turn at the end and the story of the plane crash story was never resolved). Four entire books of build up to a fight that never happens. I was beyond angry when I finished this book. Give me something! Anything! But, no. We’re going to resolve our difference through reasoned discussion.

[bellatrix93]

Originally Posted by AldeberanBlack

Edward’s offer to Jacob to provide him with a home, clothes, a car and food seems friendly.

Did he actually do that? Why?

Originally Posted by AldeberanBlack

Bella’s reaction to Jacob’s imprinting upon the demon baby is hypocritical. She reacts with outrage over something that (as creepy as it may be) is an involuntary trait of being a werewolf. She never expressed any kind of outrage over Edward’s vampirism

Well, it's not that she objected to his imprinting, but to his imprinting on her two-days-old daughter. It's just creepy. I can easily see anyone, including Bella, being creeped out by that, .
At that point of the story I excpected there would be a fight between the werewolves and the vampires, because naturally Bella and Edward wouldn't accept a werewolf running around after their baby daughter. But no, they just accepted it like that..

[AldeberanBlack]

Quotes from "Godless Clio"

Is she secreting irresistible pheromones or something?

It's possible that if Bella's scent drawns in vampires, then it might have a similar effect on humans too. I'm surprised Meyer didn't go all the way and mention that bees are attracted to her too.

Vincent Schiavelli?

It's funny you mention him. I watched "Ghost" again just a few days ago

In order to hit her target audience (adolescent teen girls) she had to cut graphic sex scenes so parents wouldn’t flip out. The price you pay for writing teen romance.

I understand that, but in a novel featuring attempted sexual assault, murder and the abuse of women, it seems odd that a sex scene between the two lead characters on their honeymoon is excluded, particularly since the entire novel series is based on the supposed passion and epic love between them.

I will say one thing: I commend Meyer for maintaining a stand against sex-before-marriage and setting an example for her audience when every teen TV show has their characters hooking up left and right. While I don’t think it’s realistic to expect teens to abstain, I give her props for sticking to her guns on this issue, even though it came at the expense of making Edward even less of a believable character than he already was.

The problem is that the nature of the Bella/Edward relationship is so flawed that any moral value of abstaining is outweighed IMO by several very negative messages being sent to the reader as to what kind of behaviour should be tolerated in a relationship

Quotes from Bellatrix93

Did he actually do that? Why?

It happens after Jacob leaves Sam's pack and has nowhere else to go. Leah and Seth join him too. IMO after that point, Edward and Jacob should have made their peace and never used insulting names for each other.

Well, it's not that she objected to his imprinting, but to his imprinting on her two-days-old daughter. It's just creepy. I can easily see anyone, including Bella, being creeped out by that.

True, but given the fact she had accepted Edward watching her sleep, controlling access to her best friend, and having his adopted sister hold her hostage, it seemed an odd thing to object to, given her past tolerances.

[BubblyShell22]

I was also very disappointed at the ending to BD. It was just a cop-out that the battle was built up and nothing ever happened. As I said earlier, I would've loved to have seen one character get killed off as an act of sacrifice. And as for Bella's mother dying, that would've been better as it would've reinforced the idea that Bella had to live with Charlie because of her death and not just because her mother wanted to be with Phil. Bella could've gone with them, but she decided to send herself to a place she detests. Yeah, that makes a load of sense.

I'm actually re-reading the series now since I don't have anything new to read.

[Goddess_Clio]

Originally Posted by AldeberanBlack

It's possible that if Bella's scent drawns in vampires, then it might have a similar effect on humans too. I'm surprised Meyer didn't go all the way and mention that bees are attracted to her too.

It's funny you mention him. I watched "Ghost" again just a few days ago

Vincent Schiavelli is not an attractive man at all, but he has an amazingly awesome face to have an an actor and I think he's pretty cool. I do still maintain that Bella only loved Edward because he didn't look like Vincent Schiavelli though.

I understand that, but in a novel featuring attempted sexual assault, murder and the abuse of women, it seems odd that a sex scene between the two lead characters on their honeymoon is excluded, particularly since the entire novel series is based on the supposed passion and epic love between them.

Agreed that it's quite a double standard, but in the course of the books, the abuse of women is dealt with in such a way that I'm not entirely sure that Meyer was aware of the theme she was developing. And if she was aware of it than shame on her.

The problem is that the nature of the Bella/Edward relationship is so flawed that any moral value of abstaining is outweighed IMO by several very negative messages being sent to the reader as to what kind of behaviour should be tolerated in a relationship

Again, totally agreed. In this respect, HP is a much better book - all of the teenage relationships presented remain very chaste while folded into a book with some serious issues but many positive messages. The Twilight series is a very disturbing young-adult series to me because it contains these serious issues but doesn't ever show a character overcoming these issues in a positive way.

Originally Posted by BubblyShell22

I was also very disappointed at the ending to BD. It was just a cop-out that the battle was built up and nothing ever happened. As I said earlier, I would've loved to have seen one character get killed off as an act of sacrifice.

I would have loved to see the big battle that's been built up to for two books. One person dying wouldn't have done it, I wanted full on vampire mayhem.

And as for Bella's mother dying, that would've been better as it would've reinforced the idea that Bella had to live with Charlie because of her death and not just because her mother wanted to be with Phil. Bella could've gone with them, but she decided to send herself to a place she detests. Yeah, that makes a load of sense.

I really detest Bella's imposed self-pity. "I moved to a place I hate so that my mother could be happy with the man she's married therefore I have every right to be a boring, sullen brat and hate my life." Get over yourself, Bella. You didn't have to make that choice.

I agree that Bella's mother could have and probably should have been killed off. The only thing this would have changed would be the end of book 1 which could have easily been rewritten. Bella pretends to storm back to Phoenix because she hates Forks and wants to be with her old friends at her old school in her old life... The ending of the book didn't have to take place in a ballet studio, it could have been in her old school gym and her old Phoenix 'best friend' (who would have to have been established earlier in the books) would be what lured her there. Bella's move to Forks shouldn't have been a voluntary exile, that makes her attitude once she's there very tedious and unlikable whereas if she had been forced to move there it would have still been unlikable but understandable.

I'm actually re-reading the series now since I don't have anything new to read.

Ah! Someone to share my misery with! I've just gotten to the 'day after' when Bella and Jessica talk about the ride Bella took back from Port Angeles with Edward. (If you care to know )

[AldeberanBlack]

"The Second Short Life of Bree Tanner"

This is a novella by Stephenie Meyer, just short of 200 pages. It's a spin off from "Eclipse" and tells the story of Victoria's army from the perspective of Bree Tanner, a teenaged female vampire created by Riley as part of his efforts to build a hoarde of newborn vampires who are being prepared for an attack upon the Cullens, which occurs at the end of "Eclipse".

I liked this novella. I thought Stephenie Meyer did a very good job with it. Unlike the main Twilight series, this novella has a direction. Few if any pages are wasted. The reader is always made aware that the novella is building towards something. A conclusive ending. It's interesting that when Meyer resists the urge to overwrite and avoids the excessive description and redundant repetition that bogged down the main series, she is actually capable of writing a good story. When denied a Mary Sue character like Edward Cullen (who I believe Meyer has an odd fixation with) to obsess over, her writing is considerably superior. If only she had applied this approach to the Twilight series, it may have improved.

I liked Bree Tanner. She's thoughtful and complicated. She is a killer but not malicious. The reader is always given the impression that Bree is just as much a victim as the people she preys upon. Bree's description of her thirst makes it clear that she's basically an animal who is compelled to hunt, rather than a person who chooses to do so sadistically. This makes her sympathetic (which is essential for the end of the novel when she is killed by the Volturi).

Her relationship with Diego is far better developed that Bella and Edward's relationship. There seems to be genuine warmth and friendship between them and it's rather sad when she realises that he has been murdered. I almost wish that Bree had been spared in "Eclipse". Had I written the Twilight series, as I mentioned in my "Breaking Dawn" review, Bella would not have become a vampire nor ended up with Edward, but what I would have done was have Edward (who would have been much more sympathetic in my version) effectively "adopt" Bree as a daughter, saving her from the Volturi and being her vampire father figure and mentor, thus giving Bree a family, and giving Edward a constructive purpose in life other than obsessing over Mary Sue Bella.

Meyer does a good job at making Riley and Victoria distant. Bree never really knows all the facts about why she was created or what her role in the battle will be. This again makes her sympathetic because if the reader had read "Eclipse" first (which would be my recommendation), they know she is little more than cannon fodder.

I have heard that the Bree Tanner story may be adapted into a film. If so, that's good news. I'm sure it will make a decent movie. The ferry attack scene in particular will be worth watching.

Overall I enjoyed this book. Perhaps this is what Stephenie Meyer should focus on. Instead of writing overlong novels filled with padding and negative messages, maybe her strength is in writing short, sharp novellas that get directly to the point. That (along with the seemingly-never-to-be-completed "Midnight Sun") could be the next step for developing the Twilight universe.

After reading all available Twilight novels and the novella, I certainly recommend them for others to read. If you can tolerate the padding, awful messages, virtually non-existent plot, thin characters, and excess amounts of Mary Sues, it's still worth reading.

[Goddess_Clio]

Originally Posted by AldeberanBlack

Again, it indicates the low status of women in these novels. Almost universally women are portrayed in these novels in a very negative light, which might be surprising given the gender of the author.

Just found out that Stephenie Meyer is a mormon, or more specifically is a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints since mormons don't like to be called mormons anymore because of the negative connotations associated with mormon polygamist activities.

This explains a lot of the themes revolving around the women characters kowtowing to their husbands or boyfriends whims as the mormon church has a history of subverting women and elevating men into positions of dominance.

[AldeberanBlack]

That could be the case. That being said, I don't think Meyer presents her male characters particularly well either. Edward is controlling. Jacob can't take no for an answer. Charlie is inept. Mike is a wimp. The wolfboys are followers. Aro and Caius are indecisive and illogical. Sam is a woman-beater. Laurent and James are useless. Jasper and Emmett are largely pointless etc...The only male character that comes across as useful and honourable is IMO Carlisle.

[BubblyShell22]

I'm on the Port Angeles chapter of Twilight right now, but haven't read that part yet.

As for Bree Tanner, I agree. I really liked that novella, too, and really sympathized with Bree. I've thought about writing a fan fiction where Bree is essentially adopted by the Cullens instead of getting killed by the Volturi. She learns to control her blood lust, but while she's doing that, Bella has to be absent from their lives so that Bree won't give in to temptation of killing her (though I'm sure many here wouldn't be too sad if I did that). In the meantime, Bree develops feelings for Edward, and he begins to question everything he's felt for Bella and how he might have feelings for Bree. That's as far as I've gotten in the plot in my head. I don't have a name for it yet or anything like that. I'm open to suggestions for a title though.

[Goddess_Clio]

Originally Posted by BubblyShell22

As for Bree Tanner, I agree. I really liked that novella, too, and really sympathized with Bree. I've thought about writing a fan fiction where Bree is essentially adopted by the Cullens instead of getting killed by the Volturi.

I have no experience with Twilight fanfiction myself but my sister says that most of the stuff she's read is actually better than the books because they fix all the problems the books have of making Bella a whiny, love-sick non-entity and Edward a controlling snot

[Moriath]

The topic is Twilight, not fanfiction, and please be constructive in your criticism!

[AldeberanBlack]

Being a whiny, love sick, non entity is only part of the problem with Bella Swan. A bigger problem is that she has no flaws. She's clumsy, and that's it. Big deal. That's not a real flaw, because it doesn't have any negative effect on how other characters treat her. She's worshipped by her friends. She's sexually desired by Jacob. She's a dress up doll for Alice. She's pined over by Mike. She's a holy shrine (when pregnant) to Rosalie. She would be the best ever bloodbag to red-eyed vampires and so on....

It's interesting that Lauren, the only character in the series who isn't impressed by Bella at all (justifiably so IMO) is curiously absent from the movie series.

[Goddess_Clio]

I don't know if I'd say Bella has no flaws (though perhaps these are more negative characteristics than flaws): She's pretty dang self-pitying, she's obsessive to the point of self-destruction (evidenced in her suicidal tendancies in New Moon), she's self-absorbed, seems to genuinely not be interested in making friends when she moves to Forks in the first place and is only concerned with what others think of her when it would effect her own life and her relationship with Edward, which might not be all that uncommon a phenomena in teenaged girls

It is odd, though, that throughout the books Bella's school friends stick by her even when she becomes morosely suicidal, doesn't participate in their activities, turns down their offers to hang out and basically shuns them whenever she gets the opportunity to hang out with Edward or his family. The teenagers in Forks are saints for putting up with this kind of hot and cold treatment; one of my friends does this exact same thing whenever he gets a new girlfriend - it's all about her her her and it'll be months without so much as a "hello" on facebook but he expects to be welcomed back by his friends with open arms the instant they break up and he wants a shoulder to cry on or someone to hang out with. Maybe it's just me but I have very little respect for people who treat their friends so callously.

My impression of Lauren in my rereading is that she's jealous that Bella swooped in and stole away a spotlight that might have previously been directed on her. But I agree that it's suspicious that the only person not totally enamoured with Bella was cut from the films.

[AldeberanBlack]

There's an episode of "Frasier" where Diane from "Cheers" goes to Seattle and visits him. She's written a play (where all the characters are based on people she knew from Cheers) and they ALL love an idealised version of her. That's what Twilight reminds me of.

Take Edward for example. He's so devestated by Bella's cliff diving "death" that he can't take anymore and wants to die. Why? Because he can't go on living in a world where she's dead. Now keep in mind, this happens AFTER he's already abandoned her. See he wanted her to live a long and healthy human life, so therefore he left her completely undefended.

In theory ANY thirsty vampire that was passing by Forks one day and picked up her scent could have killed her.


But no, apparently she's SO important, that a world without her is just too much....for the vampire who told her that she'd never see him again ever anyway.

[BubblyShell22]

Yeah, he said he left to keep her safe, yet Laurent was right there and could have killed her if the wolves hadn't intervened. And as for Laurent, maybe he just switched allegiances after Twilight ended. I always thought he was a neutral party but attribute his change of heart more to the possibility of him reuniting with Victoria and maybe having her manipulate him again. I don't know

Yeah, I noticed Lauren wasn't in the films. I think it would've been interesting to have her in them.

And I agree that while Bella does have flaws, they aren't really presented as such except for the clumsiness.