Quirrel and the Logic Puzzle

[genius24]

I have searched for this and didn't find anything related.

In PS/SS Hagrid states that Quirrel has a cunning mind. So my question is this, did Voldemort help Quirrel solve the Potions riddle on the way to the Sorcerer's Stone or did he let Quirrel try by himself and suffer the consequences if he got it wrong. I think Voldemort would have helped so that he wasn't stopped in trying to get the stone, please discuss your theories here.

[SlytherinLocket]

Where does Hagrid state that Quirrel is cunning?

[MasterOfDeath]

All I remember is Hagrid saying Quirrell had a 'brilliant mind' and was fine when he was studying from books but when it came to going out in the real world, he was rather meek.

[MmeBergerac]

I guess Quirrell was capable himself to solve the riddle, but in any case Voldemort wouldn't have let him drink the poison. There was no point in getting stuck wihout a body between two curtains of fire!

[Liselle]

Hagrid said that Quirrell had "brilliant mind" but goes on to say that he'd been extremely nervous and twitchy since his return from gaining first hand experience.

I guess I'd always assumed that Quirrell had got passed the potions himself without any intervention but given he must have been in some sort of tizzy, first Voldmort riding around at the back of his head, trying to fend off Snape, dodge Dumbledore and get to Harry would probably add up to needing some sort of help to get past the tests left (and Fluffy!)

[writerserenyty]

While I think that Quirrell could have done it, possibly, that Voldy would want to help. Being so close to the stone, I have to think that he wouldn't want anything to screw it up. So I can't help but think that Voldemort would demand to hear/see the puzzle, and make sure that the right choice was being made.

[Lucybird]

I can well imagine that Voldemort would have helped. If Quirrel got it wrong then Voldemort would have not been able to get the stone. To not help would be a bad idea.

I wonder why Quirrel didn't drink all the potion though. Or do you think it replenished itself?

[MmeBergerac]

I doubt it replenished itself, since Harry and Hermione found that there was potion for only one of them.

Anyway, Quirrell couldn't suspect that three eleven-years-old would go after him, let alone get past the Devil's Snare, the giant chess, etc. Voldy's first underestimating of Harry.

[Lucybird]

I always pictured the bottles as quite small, like you could hold the whole of it in your hand. Small enough that you would drink it all rather than leave a bit, which is what seemed strange to me that Quirrell would leave any of it

[vampiricduck]

I imagine that if he had a brilliant mind, and did well with books, then like Hermione, logical power was a strength of his. He probably simply solved the potion bottles himself- although Voldemort would have seen inside his head, perhaps, as a second opinion?

[PureBloodGirl]

Voldemort would have had to have helped him. We don't know for sure if Quirrel had a "brilliant mind" or not. We only have Hagrid's word on that and nobody else's. Voldemort wouldn't want the only thing getting him to the stone to die. Plus, Voldemort was using Quirrel's body at the time as his own, so he wouldn't want the only thing keeping him alive to die.

[Morning_Star]

I do think Quirrel was (at least before Voldemort) capable of solving the puzzle himself, but Voldemort probably helped him. Better safe than sorry.

I think the reason why Quirrel left some of the potion was that Voldemort knew he might need Harry to get the Stone. (Long time I read the books, I don't remember if this fits in. )

[merrymarge]

What a good question! I guess that Quirrel figured it out. But, I wonder, maybe Snape told him. When they were all putting in the safeguards, each one told how to get past their enchantments. Snape pointed out which bottles had the poison, which had the nettle wine, and which ones moved you forward or back. None of the trio would think to ask a teacher, but the teachers all knew the answers.

[Kat_Suki]

I don't think Snape would have told Quirrell because we know from The Prince's Tale that Dumbledore had set Snape the task of 'watching' Quirrell pretty much from the very beginning. Snape didn't trust him and certainly not after Halloween. The final preps weren't in place until after Christmas either, because Harry had access to the Mirror of Erised at Christmas time.

I'm not sure that Quirrell would have been able to determine which potion's were poison/wine or if his 'brilliant mind' would have allowed him to work out the logic puzzle. I think that Voldemort helped him out.

The puzzle's fun, I helped my niece do this as a class project for school. She had to read a book and then do a diorama of one particular scene of importance. She chose Snape's puzzle and it was fun.

[TreacleTartlet]

I don't think Voldemort would have trusted Quirrell to solve the puzzle alone. He had bungled quite a few things already, "brilliant mind " or not. He failed to steal the Philospher's Stone from Gringotts, he failed to knock Harry off his broom. I think Voldemort would consider it too important to place his faith completely in Quirrell. As for the "brilliant mind", this was a logic puzzle, and according to Hermione, ' A lot of the greatest wizards haven't got an ounce of logic, '
So, if Quirrell was a pureblood wizard, he may not have possessed much in the way of logic. I think this use of a logic puzzle by Snape was a very early clue that he was a half-blood.

Originally Posted by Kat_Suki

I don't think Snape would have told Quirrell because we know from The Prince's Tale that Dumbledore had set Snape the task of 'watching' Quirrell pretty much from the very beginning. Snape didn't trust him and certainly not after Halloween.

I agree completely, there was no way Snape would have helped Quirrell. Snape had even threatened him.

The puzzle's fun, I helped my niece do this as a class project for school. She had to read a book and then do a diorama of one particular scene of importance. She chose Snape's puzzle and it was fun.

That sounds great fun!

[vampiricduck]

Originally Posted by merrymarge

What a good question! I guess that Quirrel figured it out. But, I wonder, maybe Snape told him. When they were all putting in the safeguards, each one told how to get past their enchantments. Snape pointed out which bottles had the poison, which had the nettle wine, and which ones moved you forward or back. None of the trio would think to ask a teacher, but the teachers all knew the answers.

I'm not sure that I can totally agree with that- if it was the case, then why would Quirrell be trying to work out the puzzles for an entire year before just jumping straight in there? Although I suppose, he did try at Halloween... I'm still not sure though. Hagrid mentioned that nobody but he and Dumbledore knew how to get past Fluffy- so clearly nobody else had been told of that either. Was it not mentioned that Quirrell knew them all excepting Hagrid's and Snape's? So I can't imagine that everyone else was told all the others... It's a bit gappy though, how he managed to find the rest without arousing any other suspicion on the staff. Strange one.

[Kat_Suki]

Oh it was. Seven bottles of varying sizes/shapes and each filled with water and different food colors, a little scroll in an HP font with the logic puzzle, rolled and tied with a ribbon. A framed scroll with the steps to take instructing how to identify the 3 bottles of poison, 2 bottles of nettle wine, and the forward/back potions.

Poison-Wine-Forward-Poison-Poison-Wine-Back

She and I had worked it out and then searched online to confirm the placement - we got it right. But 9 out of 10 classmates and even the teacher's aide in that 5th grade class got it wrong, which shows how remarkable the 12 year old Hermione was {she turned 12 that September, just after starting at Hogwarts}. My niece got a 110% on it! *is a proud auntie*

Originally Posted by vampiricduck

I'm not sure that I can totally agree with that- if it was the case, then why would Quirrell be trying to work out the puzzles for an entire year before just jumping straight in there?

Well, according to Hagrid it was the dog that stumped Quirrell and apparently Voldemort, too. Which is why such an elaborate setup in getting a drunk Hagrid to tell him how to get beyond it was needed. I think Voldemort knew how to get beyond the Devil's Snare & the flying keys. McGonagall's chess set on the other hand, well here again it takes logic/strategy (which is a bit surpising that Ron was so very good at it IMO). Perhaps Quirrell could indeed get beyond it, I mean after all we know that Quirrell managed to break into Gringotts and into a sealed vault based on Voldemort's instructions alone. Voldemort didn't possess him until after he'd failed to get the Stone. Then there was the troll, which Quirrell just coshed on the head. Then the logic test and last, the mirror.

It's obvious that Quirrell/Voldemort was stumped by Fluffy and the Mirror, so Hagrid wasn't 'quite' on the mark, there. But I'm gonna stick with Voldemort helping out on the logic puzzle and one of the major reasons for that is Voldemort couldn't really afford to lose Quirrell's body when he was so near to obtaining the Stone and a new body for himself. IMO, he wouldn't risk the chance of Quirrell getting it wrong.

[The_Green_Woods]

I think both are possible. Voldemort had a muggle background until he came to Hogwarts and he was certainly clever. Quirrell could have done it as well. He seems clever and strong enough to have Voldemort in his head for a whole year, without making anyone except Dumbledore suspicious.

[writerserenyty]

I wonder why Quirrel didn't drink all the potion though. Or do you think it replenished itself?

I personally think it replenished itself; that might be an interesting safeguard for the mirror, actually; so it's not like a whole army or group of people could get to it; only one person at a time. That might be a safeguard of some sort.

[The_Green_Woods]

I don't think it replenished itself; the potion did not fill itself after Harry drank it. But that's an interesting point; why did Quirrell not drink the entire potion? It could be because Voldemort told him a smaller dose would be enough, or Quirrell drank a little from the bottle and found that it was enough to solve the puzzle, since he did not die.