Why did the Triwizard Cup return Harry to Hogwarts?

[TreacleTartlet]

Originally Posted by Quachett

LV's arrogance, if i had a dime everytime pple used it as an excuse, i wud be a millionire.

Well, I'm not so sure it's an excuse as Voldemort does exhibit it an awful lot imo, and especially in the graveyard.

however i still think yours is still the better explanation

Thank you.

[MinervasCat]

Just as a theory to start off with, I think that maybe Dumbledore had already made the cup a portkey to return the winning student out of the maze. Either Moody didn't know this, or Dumbledore had prevented the spell from being removed.

Both your theory and Treacle's make sense.

At first I tended to think that Dumbledore had done it to transport the winner so that they magically appeared in front of the cheering crowd. That sounds like a good idea. That way the winner didn't have to try to find their way back out with the Cup. But, then I thought, if that was the case, which spell would have taken precedence? Why wouldn't Harry and Cedric have been transported out of the maze to the "winner's circle" instead of to the graveyard?

Also, don't portkeys have set times that they "leave?" Is that to guard against someone just picking one up and ending up who-knows-where? Imagine some muggle picking up an old shoe and ending up at the Quidditch Cup!

If Voldemort had planned for the cup to transport Harry back so that it would look like an accident (there'd been spells put on the maze and on Krum), then, I'd think it would have returned him to the maze itself rather than outside the maze. Or, would he want the people to see Harry dead and know he, Voldemort was back? After all, Harry had the cut where Wormtail took the blood from him. But, that could have looked like part of the accident.

Darn it, now I'm starting to think it was a plot hole. Drat. I hate plot holes. *pouts*

I'll have to think about it. Maybe Voldemort made it two way, and left it open to send Harry back so that he showed up in front of the crowd, dead and holding the Cup, kind of like Voldemort's trophy -- "I killed Harry Potter, and here's his body and your Cup."

[PotterZaid]

I can't remember the exact quotation, but I'm sure that in Goblet of Fire, someone says that a Portkey is set to leave at a specific time. So surely, when Harry summoned the cup, it shouldn't have taken him back? It would have been a MASSIVE coincidence if the time it was set to return happened to be that moment when he summoned it, don't you think?

Also, I don't think the two-way Portkey thing works - after all, when the Weasleys and Harry and Hermione turn up at the Quidditch World Cup, the wizard overseeing Portkey arrivals throws their boot into some sort of rubbish bin (if memory serves me correctly). I think that kind of dispels that theory?

Also, how could someone use a Portkey into Hogwarts? We all know that Hogwarts is absolutely impenetrable, through Dumbledore's own defensive spells, so Harry shouldn't have been able to get back in to Hogwarts anyway. I'm sure Dumbledore hadn't been foolish enough to forget to put up an anti-Portkey defensive spell. And in Order of the Phoenix, when Dumbledore makes a Portkey to take Harry back to his office, HE is the one who makes the Portkey, and clearly he has the ability to override his own defensive spells. However, Dumbledore had no idea that Harry would be taken out of the Hogwarts grounds, so I highly doubt that the Portkey would REALLY have been able to bring him back.

So basically, I think it's one big plot hole. I think JKR just didn't think it through properly, and her own conditions which she'd set earlier on in the book regarding the use of Portkeys were accidentally abandoned.

(P.S. Sorry if what I've written doesn't make sense, it's 1:15 am here)

[Quachett]

Originally Posted by PotterZaid

I can't remember the exact quotation, but I'm sure that in Goblet of Fire, someone says that a Portkey is set to leave at a specific time. So surely, when Harry summoned the cup, it shouldn't have taken him back? It would have been a MASSIVE coincidence if the time it was set to return happened to be that moment when he summoned it, don't you think?

Also, I don't think the two-way Portkey thing works - after all, when the Weasleys and Harry and Hermione turn up at the Quidditch World Cup, the wizard overseeing Portkey arrivals throws their boot into some sort of rubbish bin (if memory serves me correctly). I think that kind of dispels that theory?

Also, how could someone use a Portkey into Hogwarts? We all know that Hogwarts is absolutely impenetrable, through Dumbledore's own defensive spells, so Harry shouldn't have been able to get back in to Hogwarts anyway. I'm sure Dumbledore hadn't been foolish enough to forget to put up an anti-Portkey defensive spell. And in Order of the Phoenix, when Dumbledore makes a Portkey to take Harry back to his office, HE is the one who makes the Portkey, and clearly he has the ability to override his own defensive spells. However, Dumbledore had no idea that Harry would be taken out of the Hogwarts grounds, so I highly doubt that the Portkey would REALLY have been able to bring him back.

So basically, I think it's one big plot hole. I think JKR just didn't think it through properly, and her own conditions which she'd set earlier on in the book regarding the use of Portkeys were accidentally abandoned.

(P.S. Sorry if what I've written doesn't make sense, it's 1:15 am here)

It does make sense, I also think its a plot hole, i am trying to find an explanation but i just cant find one tht doesnt rely on luck for the whole thing to work.

[addie_ep]

Originally Posted by jookyle

Well, I think that a Portkey would take you back to where it took you when you first touched it. As long as the enchantment was still on it. A lot of "weird" things happened that night. I don't think that's much of a stretch.

Now, say that isn't the case. I don't think it's much of a stretch either to think that Voldemort would want to take Harry's body back to Hogwarts, drop him at his feet, and then touch the portkey again to take him away once everyone saw him and bring Harry's body.

The cup may have been a portkey all along to transport the winner out of the maze once it's been touched. But, it seems odd to me that you can "stack" destinations on a portkey. However, I don't discount it.

This is a really open subject as we don't really know the limitations of a portkey.

I agree. I think it is hard to determinate because we know very little stuff about the portkeys. But I think that they could do and "reversal effect", like take you back to the place you've come from, as long as his effect hasn't worn off (as it happens after a while). How much time can you use a portkey to go back where you came from? We really do not have much information about them to anwer that...

[MinervasCat]

Originally Posted by PotterZaid

I can't remember the exact quotation, but I'm sure that in Goblet of Fire, someone says that a Portkey is set to leave at a specific time. So surely, when Harry summoned the cup, it shouldn't have taken him back? It would have been a MASSIVE coincidence if the time it was set to return happened to be that moment when he summoned it, don't you think?

Also, I don't think the two-way Portkey thing works - after all, when the Weasleys and Harry and Hermione turn up at the Quidditch World Cup, the wizard overseeing Portkey arrivals throws their boot into some sort of rubbish bin (if memory serves me correctly). I think that kind of dispels that theory?

Also, how could someone use a Portkey into Hogwarts? We all know that Hogwarts is absolutely impenetrable, through Dumbledore's own defensive spells, so Harry shouldn't have been able to get back in to Hogwarts anyway. I'm sure Dumbledore hadn't been foolish enough to forget to put up an anti-Portkey defensive spell. And in Order of the Phoenix, when Dumbledore makes a Portkey to take Harry back to his office, HE is the one who makes the Portkey, and clearly he has the ability to override his own defensive spells. However, Dumbledore had no idea that Harry would be taken out of the Hogwarts grounds, so I highly doubt that the Portkey would REALLY have been able to bring him back.

So basically, I think it's one big plot hole. I think JKR just didn't think it through properly, and her own conditions which she'd set earlier on in the book regarding the use of Portkeys were accidentally abandoned.

(P.S. Sorry if what I've written doesn't make sense, it's 1:15 am here)

No, unfortunately, it makes perfect sense. It's starting to sound more and more like a plot hole. But, remember it's all magic, so, anything could happen.

[WhySoSirius237]

The most likely theory is the double-layering of spells on the cup.

[heathurrr]

I think that just because its mentioned that a portkey CAN have a set-time doesnt mean it HAS to. I think thats just one way it works. Another would be just by touch [i.e triwizard cup]

[jookyle]

Originally Posted by heathurrr

I think that just because its mentioned that a portkey CAN have a set-time doesnt mean it HAS to. I think thats just one way it works. Another would be just by touch [i.e triwizard cup]

I agree. No one said that there had to be a time limit. And setting the Cup as one(either by Dumbledore or Barty Crouch Jr.) would be illogical if limited by time because they would have had no idea at what time the contestants would have made it to the cup.

[willfitz]

I am glad this thread is being revisited. I think that I finally settled on two possible theories:

1. The Triwizard Committee decided to make the cup into a portkey to transport the winner in front of the audience in truly theatrical fashion. This theory explains why the cup took Harry to the audience and not back where he started, which severely weakens the two-way portkey theory, the way that none of the audience seemed surprised by Harry's appearance, only by the fact that he was accompanied by Cedric's corpse, the fact that magical transportation from the school property was not blocked, and the fact that the audience were kept in the stands, where there would otherwise be really nothing to see, or so you would think. In this theory, Moody would be a natural choice to take the cup into the maze, given his obvious rather special visual abilities, giving him a great opportunity to add a second spell, taking advantage of the fact that the spell blocking magical transportation in Hogwarts would have to be lifted temporarily. This theory relies on a LIFO organization system of portkey enchantments.

2. Just like in PoA, when his parents' apparent presence (just his dad, that time) inspired Harry to perform magic which he thought was well beyond his ability, perhaps his parents' image in the graveyard inspired him to create the portkey himself, purely out of force of will. Perhaps he used magic similar to "kid magic" which is driven purely by emotion and intent, rather than incantations.

Personally, I don't see much wrong with the first theory, and I find it slightly more likely.

[Nyjets4004]

Originally Posted by Raviolissimo

Crouch enchanted the cup to make it a Portkey.

if DD had suspected that the cup needed to be enchanted to return Harry to Hogwart's, why would he have let Harry put himself in danger ?

Lets not forget this isnt the first time Albus left Harry exposed to some potential "danger" Albus was using Harry the whole time if you can remember he knew "One must live while the other dies"


Reading through some of the comments i realized people were confused to how the portkey transported Harry if their set for specific times. But since Magic is incredibly confusing most of the times, the way i see it if a wizard was strong enough (Lord Voldemort) he can prob keep the cup open at all times.

[FrejyaAthena]

What if the cup was layered with two spells? For example, finding the cup was not the end of the task- the cup was always a port key to the graveyard and the final part of the task was to be resolved there? Voldemort may have known this perhaps, and slain whatever was supposed to slain in the task, and just waited for Harry to come (killing off the others if they arrived first). This would also fit in the theory that the cup was always supposed to take the winner to the audience (it would seem ridiculous that they would have to find their way back through the maze with the cup, after all).

[heathurrr]

^ Interesting theory but I dont really think so. I think the book mentions the graveyard is hundreds of miles away and why would Dumbledore agree to having the end of the tournament in a graveyard that just so happens to house Voldy's fathers grave? It just seems unlikely, albeit interesting for sure.

[Quachett]

Originally Posted by FrejyaAthena

What if the cup was layered with two spells? For example, finding the cup was not the end of the task- the cup was always a port key to the graveyard and the final part of the task was to be resolved there? Voldemort may have known this perhaps, and slain whatever was supposed to slain in the task, and just waited for Harry to come (killing off the others if they arrived first). This would also fit in the theory that the cup was always supposed to take the winner to the audience (it would seem ridiculous that they would have to find their way back through the maze with the cup, after all).

Right the cup just happens to be disterned to little Hangleton in the same graveyard were Riddle's Dad and Grandparents are buried, not only tht but the exect destination is near thier graves and not to forget tht despite all the procotions to keep the champions safe there would be no one to just oversee tht nothing went wrong and finally set a destination in a muggle neighbourhood when they have tried to hide magic from muggles. The fact there are only thre tasks and they change constantly and wouldnt DD be more worried about the fact tht Harry's name comes up, all these disappearances keep happening, He knows tht Harry's scare is starting to hurt more he knows LV is gaaining power, Knowing all this would DD sure let any champion at all go to the grave yard were LV's relatives are burried, thts not to mention tht Crouch did confess tht he sent Harry to the grave yard perposefully. and besides the Goblins tht Ludo had a bet with mentioned tht the winner was both harry and Cedric because they touched the portkey at the same time, how can they be named winners if the task wasnt finished then?

Also there is nowheere in the series tht JKR said the portkey could only be made to work at specific time, I am sure you could make a portkey tht has no time restrictions, the time restriction was there to make sure tht if multiple users were there they would all be able to touch the port key and be ready to go in an orderly way, if there was no time restriction as an option then highly likely a lot of people would be left behind if one person just touches the object quicker than the others.

[FrejyaAthena]

From what I gather, you're questioning why DD would let the last part of the task be in the graveyard where the Riddles lived and were buried? The thing is, I don't think DD makes the Triwizard Tournament rules or path, so it could just be tradition that they end up there (after all, that village is the only 100% wizarding village in England- all of the other wizarding families are hiding within Muggle territory, so it would make sense that a task was always performed there, rather than somewhere where Muggles could get injured).

DD warned everyone that it would be dangerous and had resulted in death on more than occasion...

[jookyle]

Hogsmeade is the Wizard Only village in Britain. Little Hangleton is not a wizard only village. There may not be any wizards there at all. We only know the Gaunts lived outside it.

[FrejyaAthena]

^Oh yes, you are right, my mistake.

[wolfbrother]

I highly doubt the final part of the challenge was dealing with something in a graveyard. Dumbledore would have mentioned if something like that was originally planned.
IMO it makes sense that the cup was supposed to be a portkey that transported the winner to the audience. I guess what Crouch did was add another spell that took the person to the graveyard first.
One thing I can't understand though was that Voldemort intended this to be an accident. It wouldn't look like an accident if Harry suddenly popped up dead in front the audience. Harry should have been transported back into the maze.

[OldMotherCrow]

Originally Posted by wolfbrother

I highly doubt the final part of the challenge was dealing with something in a graveyard. Dumbledore would have mentioned if something like that was originally planned.
IMO it makes sense that the cup was supposed to be a portkey that transported the winner to the audience. I guess what Crouch did was add another spell that took the person to the graveyard first.

That's my favored theory, too.

One thing I can't understand though was that Voldemort intended this to be an accident. It wouldn't look like an accident if Harry suddenly popped up dead in front the audience. Harry should have been transported back into the maze.

Well, Harry would be inexplicably dead in a way unconnected to Voldemort. I think many would link the death to the Portkey spell being faulty, and Dumbledore and the Ministry of Magic would look incompetent because of it. Others might simply write off the death as due to the general dangers of the tournament.

I suppose Voldemort could have put another Portkey spell on the Cup after he had killed Harry, though, to send it back to the center of the maze. Maybe he just never got a chance to finish carrying out his plan.

[willfitz]

If the portkey was meant to transport the first champion to the graveyard for the final part of the challenge, then transport them back upon being touched, it opens up two major issues in my opinion:

First off, there would be no guarantee that the champion would face the challenge, rather than just grabbing the cup again.

Second, if the champion was killed, or subdued, in the final part of the challenge, then no other champion would be able to win the cup, as they would then have to make their way to the graveyard.