Way Ahead for Deathly Hallows Movie(s)

[oierem]

Originally Posted by Placebo

Here lies Dobby, a free elf.

I hope they can pull that off with Dobby being absent for so long..

Placed in the beginning of the second film? Pretty impossible to pull it off. Dobby will be suddenly thrown into the movie and will die in 5 minutes. Who the hell is going to care about him?

[merrymarge]

I care about Dobby!! I hope they treat his death with diginity and respect.

[Bella_Crucio_U]

Originally Posted by Noldus
Not exactly the kisses, but the circumstances around it Ron and Hermione kissed when they were in a war. Same with Will and Elisabeth, only that they got married. Now or never, you know

Yeah! I agree with you! That would be how I imagined it too; right in the middle of war. I heard they confirmed that they do kiss in the middle of the war. It's not like they have some private scene like some people though they might. But I'm excited to see the H/G birthday kiss. I hope it's waaaay better than the kiss in HBP, it should be...

I care about Dobby!! I hope they treat his death with diginity and respect.

I care about Dobby too!! I hope they do his death justice. Even though he hasn't been in the films since CoS I think it will still be sad (at least to us HP fans). This movie will be good if it makes me cry a lot. I cried a lot while reading the books so the movies better be emotional! I'm reaaaally looking forward to The Forest Again scene! I loooove that chapter so much!

[Sesquipedalian]

Dobby's death will have little effect in the film, in my opinion. Many audience members will barely recall a character that they have not seen since 2002, and those who do, based upon the reactions of the majority of the general public at the time of Chamber of Secrets' release, will remember him as an annoying CGI *******. It would be much more logical for the filmmakers to replace him with a character of which audiences have a better recollection and/or have more connection to.

[decarus]

I think the emotion resonance of the Malfoy Manor scene is that Hermione is being tortured and Ron's reaction, as well as Draco's reaction to seeing the trio. It is Harry's reaction to Dobby's death that is important. Dobby's death, for me, in and of itself never really made those scenes great.

Originally Posted by Bella_Crucio_U

I heard they confirmed that they do kiss in the middle of the war. It's not like they have some private scene like some people though they might. But I'm excited to see the H/G birthday kiss. I hope it's waaaay better than the kiss in HBP, it should be...

It is also confirmed that Harry will not be in the scene when Ron and Hermione kiss, so they may have a private kiss as some people thought. It is thought that they will kiss in the Chamber of Secrets, during the battle, but still in private. Of course, that is not confirmed, but only speculation.

[Noldus]

Originally Posted by Sesquipedalian

Dobby's death will have little effect in the film, in my opinion. Many audience members will barely recall a character that they have not seen since 2002, and those who do, based upon the reactions of the majority of the general public at the time of Chamber of Secrets' release, will remember him as an annoying CGI *******. It would be much more logical for the filmmakers to replace him with a character of which audiences have a better recollection and/or have more connection to.

I thought the CGI of him in COS was impressive, especially when realizing it's 7 years ago. I don't want Neville to replace him once again He can be re-introduced in DH 1, you know. Most people who go to see part 2 of a film will have number one in mind. Even though he has been absent in many films it can still be a sad scene.

[oierem]

But it's not logical to place such an emotional scene at the begining of a movie! There's no way to build up any emotion to that moment. It doesn't matter if he is introduced in the first movie (I'm sure he's not, btw). Even if the audience reminds him, a movie has to be satisfactory on its own.
It's the equivalent of having Gandalf die at the begining of the second movie. It doesn't work emotionally, even if the audience is familiar with the character.

The best thing would be to replace Dobby with Kreatcher (only one elf) or even with Neville, and to place that scene at the END of the first movie, IMO.

[mrfutterman]

Originally Posted by oierem

The best thing would be to replace Dobby with Kreatcher (only one elf) or even with Neville, and to place that scene at the END of the first movie, IMO.

Some of us think along those lines too. But they're not going to do anything bold.

[Bella_Crucio_U]

It is also confirmed that Harry will not be in the scene when Ron and Hermione kiss, so they may have a private kiss as some people thought. It is thought that they will kiss in the Chamber of Secrets, during the battle, but still in private. Of course, that is not confirmed, but only speculation.

Really?? I didn't know that! Thanks for the info.

[meesha1971]

Originally Posted by Noldus

I thought the CGI of him in COS was impressive, especially when realizing it's 7 years ago. I don't want Neville to replace him once again He can be re-introduced in DH 1, you know. Most people who go to see part 2 of a film will have number one in mind. Even though he has been absent in many films it can still be a sad scene.

I agree. Having Neville replace Dobby in GOF and OOTP were changes that never made any sense, IMO. Not to mention that really screws up the tiara being hidden in the Room of Requirement because the OOTP film established that the Room of Requirement was not a secret by having Hermione congratulate Neville on finding it and explaining how it worked - apparently having read about it in Hogwarts, A History. Now they're going to have to come up with an explanation for why Dumbledore would never have searched there - not to mention why Voldemort would even consider hiding one of his Horcruxes in a room that was known to others and explained in a book about the school. They can't use the explanation given in the book that most people did not know about the room because they screwed that up in OOTP.

Replacing Dobby with Neville in DH would be an even worse decision, IMO. Neville is significant to the final battle and gets his big moment there with killing Nagini. It would be beyond foolish to change that and kill Neville off at the beginning of part 2.

I do think they screwed up by not keeping Kreacher and Dobby in HBP - that would have been perfect for re-introducing Dobby and doing more to establish Kreacher. But they did at least acknowledge that it was a mistake to cut the house-elves from the previous movies so we can hope that they have something in mind to fix that mistake.

The emotional impact of Dobby's death stems from Harry's reaction and that's going to be the same regardless of where they place the scene, IMO. In a way, that circles back to the first film opening with the revelation that James and Lily Potter have been murdered and their son is being sent to live with his aunt and uncle. That was an emotional scene and having that as the opening didn't diminish it - I still get teary eyed right along with Hagrid.

I do think it would have been better to have that as the end of part 1 because it is the natural divide in the story, but I think they can make it work for the opening of part 2 as well.

[CowsRSkary]

I see that a lot of people are excited about the battle of Hogwarts. I am too, but I don't handle violence well, so I will probably only see three seconds of it before I hide behind my popcorn. I mostly want to see the Malfoy Manor scene, because I'm curoius as to how they will deal with Dobby.

[Nyjets4004]

I think that the hogwarts scene would be the best

[thefirestorm]

Not that it's important or anything, but I would love it if they did the CGI of Dobby with the sock Harry gave him in Cos on.


And with the Battle - not that I like death or anything - but I really want to see Lupin and Tonks battle and be killed. I didn't like in the book how he just saw them laying there.

[momof3muggles]

I am most looking forward to the battle at Hogwarts, I just can't envision that many people on the screen at the same time!

I can't wait to see Neville kill Nagini! Go Neville!

I am also looking forward to the end, where everyone is grown up and has kids of their own getting ready to board the train. Sappy, I know, but I am about the same age as Harry will be in that scene, with kids the same age, so it will be cool to see Harry "my age"!

[JR637]

I think that Dobby is one of the places that they have really dropped the ball. Unless the dedicate some precious movie time in DH1 to Dobby and re-introducing him to the audience, his death will lack emotion (ie Dumbledore's death) and will probably confuse the audience. I hope they think of a way to generate an emotional connection to Dobby without taking up too much time. We shall see I guess.

-JR

[Lennon]

Originally Posted by Sesquipedalian

Dobby's death will have little effect in the film, in my opinion. Many audience members will barely recall a character that they have not seen since 2002, and those who do, based upon the reactions of the majority of the general public at the time of Chamber of Secrets' release, will remember him as an annoying CGI *******. It would be much more logical for the filmmakers to replace him with a character of which audiences have a better recollection and/or have more connection to.

I don't agree with that at all. Dobby and Kreacher are the ONLY two Elves we see in the entire films, Dobby is a very memorable character from the 2002 film. Saying audiences wouldn't remember Dobby from the second film is the same as saying the audience won't remember the basilisk fangs used for destroying the diary, which comes up in DH but is seen very little in CoS. Or, the audience won't remember the Grey Lady from any of the movies, to my knowledge she is in one of the deleted scenes, (Correct me if im wrong). How do you think the audience will remember or even know about that character in DH, we don't see her in any movies but she plays a role in the final films. Or even Petigrew, we see him for a period of a couple minutes in two films and we are expected to know what he part is in the movies. It shouldn't be that difficult unless you just havn't seen any of the past movies. It happens one of the downfalls of a series. Would you fully know what was going on in Return of the King if you havn't seen either of the first two films? You might to a degree, but not fully.

Just like the books the DH movies are a cumulation of everything we have seen in the past 6, this is called a arc in the story, ie gringotts, godrics hallow, RoR, Hog's Head, Hogwarts, forbidden forest, memories and on and on and on...therefore we see involvment in DH of almost every character (living and dead) and every location and many objects that we have previously seen. Why wouldn't Dobby be there then? He plays a much larger role in the movies than many other things we have seen, examples above.

Originally Posted by JR637

I think that Dobby is one of the places that they have really dropped the ball. Unless the dedicate some precious movie time in DH1 to Dobby and re-introducing him to the audience, his death will lack emotion (ie Dumbledore's death) and will probably confuse the audience. I hope they think of a way to generate an emotional connection to Dobby without taking up too much time. We shall see I guess.

-JR

If they do re-introduce him then great if they don't then I don't see what the big deal is, they can't re-introduce every object/person/place into the movies before we see it in the story at the appropriate time. That would take forever and not worth the screen time.

As for lacking emotion, I don't see how it won't. We don't read very much about Dobby, more than we see him in the movies yes, but still not a ton. The crucial part about this scene with Dobby, is all explained in his sacrifice for rescuing the tortured Hermione and imprisioned Harry, Ron and others. If they just show what is written on Dobby's tombstone and have a 20 second mention or conversation of the segregation/oppression of house elf enslavement then this clears everything up. They don't need to shift story/plot around to re-introduce him though, that only makes things more difficult in an already difficult story.

There is already an emotional connection with Dobby, Harry free'd Dobby from his shackles of the very people he is rescuing the captured wizards from, the malfoys. Seems like a pretty clear connection to me.

[oierem]

Do you remember every secondary character from a movie 8 years ago? Because I don't.

And the problem is not that the audience is not going to remember him. The problem is that there won't be any emotional attatchement to the character, and such an important death (pivotal to Harry's journey) cannot be handled in the first act of the movie (seen Temple of Doom? Remember that friend of Indy who dies in the very first secuence? That's Dobby's death at the beginning of the second movie).

[Noldus]

Originally Posted by oierem

Do you remember every secondary character from a movie 8 years ago? Because I don't.

And the problem is not that the audience is not going to remember him. The problem is that there won't be any emotional attatchement to the character, and such an important death (pivotal to Harry's journey) cannot be handled in the first act of the movie (seen Temple of Doom? Remember that friend of Indy who dies in the very first secuence? That's Dobby's death at the beginning of the second movie).

Yes, it's unlikely you would remember a film you watched 8 years ago, but I assume that many like to re-watch these films. Those who have done this a couple of times will remember him, trust me. Regarding to the sadness it doesn't really matter whether he die in film 1 or 2. The book fans will still feel connected to him through the books and the non-readers will also feel sad if the "funeral" is done right. Having him in DH 1 and appear again in DH 2 to rescue Harry will work imo. Just imagine Dobby with his huge, caring eyes. "Dobby will save Harry Potter and his friends." And when they apparate to Shell Cottage Harry is happy and says "We did it!", and then realizing ...
My username "Noldus" is actually the Norwegian translation for Dobby. He is definitely one of my favourite characters.

I want DH 1 to end with a cliffhanger of the trio being captured right after they are told about the deathly Hallows and then a short scene/vision of Voldemort stealing the elder wand. By doing this the audience will believe that Voldemort is after the deathly hallows when they go to see number 2.
The good thing about ending number 1 with Dobby's death, though, is the feeling that it's two different installments. But then it isn't very much story left for DH 2. In addition, all the films since GOF has ended with the death of a major character and a typical Hollywood moment afterward (except from HBP). It would be refreshing to get something different.

[oierem]

Originally Posted by Noldus

Yes, it's unlikely you would remember a film you watched 8 years ago, but I assume that many like to re-watch these films. Those who have done this a couple of times will remember him, trust me. Regarding to the sadness it doesn't really matter whether he die in film 1 or 2. The book fans will still feel connected to him through the books and the non-readers will also feel sad if the "funeral" is done right. Having him in DH 1 and appear again in DH 2 to rescue Harry will work imo. Just imagine Dobby with his huge, caring eyes. "Dobby will save Harry Potter and his friends." And when they apparate to Shell Cottage Harry is happy and says "We did it!", and then realizing ...
My username "Noldus" is actually the Norwegian translation for Dobby. He is definitely one of my favourite characters.

I want DH 1 to end with a cliffhanger of the trio being captured right after they are told about the deathly Hallows and then a short scene/vision of Voldemort stealing the elder wand. By doing this the audience will believe that Voldemort is after the deathly hallows when they go to see number 2.
The good thing about ending number 1 with Dobby's death, though, is the feeling that it's two different installments. But then it isn't very much story left for DH 2. In addition, all the films since GOF has ended with the death of a major character and a typical Hollywood moment afterward (except from HBP). It would be refreshing to get something different.

A movie has to work on its own, you don't have to read the books to feel the sadness of a death. Don't get me wrong. I LOVE Dobby from the books and I love his death scene. But that's the book. I just don't think that can be done as well in a film.
The major problem, IMO, is to have such an emotional and powerful scene (death of a very loveable character, Harry makes a big choice about his quest...) in the first act of a movie. It works much better as a resolution of the first part (while Voldemort gets the Elder Wand, Harry decides to go after the Horcruxes).

(Of course, it works much better as the ending of a second act, just before the final confrontation, as is in the book).

[meesha1971]

Originally Posted by Noldus

Yes, it's unlikely you would remember a film you watched 8 years ago, but I assume that many like to re-watch these films. Those who have done this a couple of times will remember him, trust me. Regarding to the sadness it doesn't really matter whether he die in film 1 or 2. The book fans will still feel connected to him through the books and the non-readers will also feel sad if the "funeral" is done right. Having him in DH 1 and appear again in DH 2 to rescue Harry will work imo. Just imagine Dobby with his huge, caring eyes. "Dobby will save Harry Potter and his friends." And when they apparate to Shell Cottage Harry is happy and says "We did it!", and then realizing ...
My username "Noldus" is actually the Norwegian translation for Dobby. He is definitely one of my favourite characters.

I agree. That ability to rent/own movies changes that concept considerably - particularly with a popular series like Harry Potter. We no longer live in an age where you could only watch a film during the time frame that it was available theatrically and that changes things a great deal. People aren't coming in to see a sequel after having only watched the previous movie once several years before - or a few times for those who liked a movie well enough to see it more than once in theaters. These days, people are going to see sequels with the previous film fresh in their minds because they either own it or rented it to watch before going to see the sequel. My parents have never read any of the books, but they are well versed on the movies because they buy the DVD's as soon as they are available and watch them frequently - particularly when the new one is being released. In fact, my mother was hesitant to go see HBP with the rest of us because she wasn't sure if she would have time to watch OOTP before we went - she had already watched the first four. My sister made sure to remind her to watch it on her day off so she would go with us. My best friend did the same thing with her family - they had a "Harry Potter movie marathon" the weekend before HBP was released. Not to mention that television adds to that by showing Harry Potter marathons prior to a new release as well.

People haven't forgotten who Dobby is because they've seen him every time they've pulled out their copy of COS to watch at home or rented it or watched it on TV. That makes the fact that the movie was released 8 years ago irrelevant, IMO. I think that change is reflected in the films as well. They don't waste time reintroducing all the secondary characters because they know it's not necessary to do so. The audiences know who Ron and Hermione are and that they're Harry's best friends. They know who Harry's classmates are and which ones he gets along with and which ones are "enemies" - i.e. Draco, Crabbe, and Goyle. They know who the teachers are. It's not necessary for them to have someone say "This is Professor McGonagall and she teaches transfiguration" or "This is Seamus and he's in Harry's class" for every new film because the audience already knows these things. The films operate under the assumption that the audience has seen the previous films and knows what's going on.

I do think it would have been better for them to have included Dobby in GOF, OOTP, and HBP - but not in terms of Dobby's character. I think the events in those films were necessary to build up Harry's affection for Dobby. COS does well enough to establish Dobby's devotion to Harry and explain why he has such great affection and admiration for Harry because it establishes that Harry is the one to helped him attain his freedom. But it doesn't do very much for establishing why Harry would feel any attachment or affection towards Dobby as all of Dobby's efforts to "save" Harry in COS backfired with Harry getting in trouble or injured in the process. So I do think it would have made more sense for them to include some of Dobby's successful interventions - giving Harry the gillyweed, telling him about the Room of Requirement - to build up Harry's affection for him.

I don't think it's a total loss though. They do have the established event that Harry did have sympathy for Dobby and helped him attain his freedom. Dobby's gratitude and devotion to Harry will make sense. I don't think it's impossible for them to establish that Harry has affection for Dobby as well - they just need to come up with a believable way to include Dobby in part 1 to establish that. The emotional impact from Dobby's death stems from Harry's reaction to it. And part of that reaction is simply the fact that Dobby sacrificed himself to save Harry.

As such, I'm not worried about the placement of the scene or the reaction to Dobby's character and whether people have forgotten him - I don't think that will be an issue at all. My concern would be whether or not Dan's performance will capture the emotion of that scene believably. Thus far, Dan has not impressed me very much with his performance in emotional scenes - though HBP was certainly an improvement.

I want DH 1 to end with a cliffhanger of the trio being captured right after they are told about the deathly Hallows and then a short scene/vision of Voldemort stealing the elder wand. By doing this the audience will believe that Voldemort is after the deathly hallows when they go to see number 2.
The good thing about ending number 1 with Dobby's death, though, is the feeling that it's two different installments. But then it isn't very much story left for DH 2. In addition, all the films since GOF has ended with the death of a major character and a typical Hollywood moment afterward (except from HBP). It would be refreshing to get something different.

My preference would be for part 1 to end with Dobby's burial, but the emotion of the scene was not the reason for that - I really don't feel it will matter in regards to the emotion of the scene if it takes place at the end of part 1 or the beginning of part 2. That's my preference because it is the more natural divide in the story with Harry coming full circle and defeating his own demons - his growing doubts about Dumbledore, his obsession with the hallows, etc... Dobby's burial is where Harry gets his head back on straight and refocuses on what is important - finding and destroying the Horcruxes.

However, I do think they can make the cliffhanger ending work as well - particularly with part 2 being released a few months later rather than two years. A cliffhanger ending with the trio being captured by the snatchers as always my second choice.