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Major Earthquake (7.3.) in Haiti - 12th January 2010



 
 
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  #41  
Old January 15th, 2010, 2:27 am
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Re: Major Earthquake (7.3.) in Haiti - 12th January 2010

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is sending a team of doctors and medical supplies to Haiti immediately to help care for those injured by the devastating earthquake. The doctors will set up a temporary medical center in a Church meetinghouse in Port-au-Prince. The meetinghouse is largely undamaged by the quake. Link


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  #42  
Old January 15th, 2010, 2:48 am
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Re: Major Earthquake (7.3.) in Haiti - 12th January 2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_mom View Post
I heard one report that the UN has taken over some aspects of coordinating relief, but so many UN officials gone thats an almost impossible task. Keeping the peace when survivors have no water and little food is going to be a challenge.
Indeed. That's why I was asking.

Last I heard specifically (this morning, I think) a BBC reporter reported that there was no looting. Kudos to the people of Haiti if that's the general situation!

I know it doesn't spund like a primary concern when people lack basic means of survival - but it'll be crucial to get someone in charge soon - not least because Haiti has a fairly recent history of authoritarian regimes, coups and so on. There are probably plenty of people alive who might want to benefit politically.

if Haiti doesn't come out of this with a credible, stable government, reconstruction will be almost impossible.


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  #43  
Old January 15th, 2010, 4:05 am
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Re: Major Earthquake (7.3.) in Haiti - 12th January 2010

I understand that the only major building still relatively undamaged in the US Embassy, because of our higher building standards.

Pat Robertson is a jerk; whenever there's a tragedy he blames it on the victims, even 9/11 was our fault. Unfortunately, even Pres. Sarkozy's message of sympathy called Haiti a cursed country.

The connection between the US and Haiti is interesting. If not for Haiti's war with France there would probably have been no Louisiana Purchase. I wonder how the young Republic would have developed without the access to the Mississippi and the New Orleans port. Oh and DuSable who founded a trading post on the shores of Lake Michigan was a Haitian! Yeah, that's Chicago!!

I wonder how Bill Clinton and GWB are going to get along in their new assignment from Pres. Obama? Apparently GHWB isn't able to help out this time.

It's going to be a tough time ahead for everybody.


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  #44  
Old January 15th, 2010, 5:35 am
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Re: Major Earthquake (7.3.) in Haiti - 12th January 2010

I don't know if this was posted yet:

[Staff edit: It was mentioned and we took it off as we don't do petitions, donations, etc here at CoS - not even for good causes. Sorry.]


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  #45  
Old January 15th, 2010, 9:41 am
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Re: Major Earthquake (7.3.) in Haiti - 12th January 2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by snapes_witch View Post
Unfortunately, even Pres. Sarkozy's message of sympathy called Haiti a cursed country.

I am no fan of Sarkozy, but I think I can confidently suggest that he did not mean this in any way in the same sense as Robertson. I haven't seen the French original or the context, but I would bet that the only thing he would have meant here is the equivalent of 'unfortunate'.

People with opinions like Robertson's are actually rather rare in Europe, and religious fervour does not get you elected for high office (rather the opposite, in fact). Moreover, people tend to keep religion out of public discourse, especially in France..... (Quote Tony Blair's political adviser: 'We don't do religion').

Quote:
Originally Posted by snapes_witch View Post
The connection between the US and Haiti is interesting. If not for Haiti's war with France there would probably have been no Louisiana Purchase. ....
Love your historical details!! Thanks!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by snapes_witch View Post
I wonder how Bill Clinton and GWB are going to get along in their new assignment from Pres. Obama? Apparently GHWB isn't able to help out this time.

It's going to be a tough time ahead for everybody.

THis made me grin for some reason. But thinking about it, it seems to be that ex-Presidents somehow end up being above the usual partisanship after a while. After all, they belong to a very exclusive club...


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Last edited by Klio; January 15th, 2010 at 10:09 am.
  #46  
Old January 15th, 2010, 12:26 pm
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Re: Major Earthquake (7.3.) in Haiti - 12th January 2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by snapes_witch View Post

The connection between the US and Haiti is interesting. If not for Haiti's war with France there would probably have been no Louisiana Purchase. I wonder how the young Republic would have developed without the access to the Mississippi and the New Orleans port. Oh and DuSable who founded a trading post on the shores of Lake Michigan was a Haitian! Yeah, that's Chicago!!
Plus Alexander Hamilton helped write the Haitian constitution while Jefferson initially supported the French against the Haitians.

Quote:
I wonder how Bill Clinton and GWB are going to get along in their new assignment from Pres. Obama? Apparently GHWB isn't able to help out this time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klio View Post
THis made me grin for some reason. But thinking about it, it seems to be that ex-Presidents somehow end up being above the usual partisanship after a while. After all, they belong to a very exclusive club...
Once out of the fray, polticians are usually more reasonable towards each other than their supporters will ever be.


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  #47  
Old January 15th, 2010, 12:31 pm
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Re: Major Earthquake (7.3.) in Haiti - 12th January 2010

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Originally Posted by monster_mom View Post
I'm not sure if you were saying this, but the international community absolutely should not rebuild Haiti. They should provide the financial and technological assistance to help Haitians rebuild their country, but not do it for them. Doing it for them will only further the Haitians dependence on the international community.

Once that is complete, then the Haitian people can decide how to best develop their nation.
It should be a collaborative effort.

Giving the Haitian people a crane and saying "there you go....get busy", then leaving, isn't exactly a practical solution.

Like it or not, Haiti IS in fact dependent on the international community and will be for the considerable future.


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Old January 15th, 2010, 1:13 pm
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Re: Major Earthquake (7.3.) in Haiti - 12th January 2010

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Originally Posted by AldeberanBlack View Post
It should be a collaborative effort.

Giving the Haitian people a crane and saying "there you go....get busy", then leaving, isn't exactly a practical solution.
I agree, but I think we need to consider changing the manner in which we provide reconstruction support. In the past the international community hasn't worked collaboratively with locals to ensure that they have the knowledge, skills, and ability to stand on their own once the support leaves. In parts of Africa we've created entire societies of people who are fully dependent on aide to survive.

Once the survivors are pulled out and the rebuilding begins we need to figure out how to help the people of Haiti stand on their own.


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  #49  
Old January 15th, 2010, 1:19 pm
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Re: Major Earthquake (7.3.) in Haiti - 12th January 2010

One thing that would be important is to work out for te near future is why on earth people on a fertile island like Hispaniola ever became dependent on food aid in the first place. Something must have gone wrong with their agricultural sector (and, given how these thimgs normally go) this would have added considerably to people living in badly built slums around the big cities.


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  #50  
Old January 15th, 2010, 3:23 pm
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Re: Major Earthquake (7.3.) in Haiti - 12th January 2010

Quote:
I agree, but I think we need to consider changing the manner in which we provide reconstruction support. In the past the international community hasn't worked collaboratively with locals to ensure that they have the knowledge, skills, and ability to stand on their own once the support leaves. In parts of Africa we've created entire societies of people who are fully dependent on aide to survive.

Once the survivors are pulled out and the rebuilding begins we need to figure out how to help the people of Haiti stand on their own.
I think the problem in Africa is that they don't have enough supervision. People dump money on Africa and have unrealistic expectations that the native leaders will spend it wisely. Instead, you get more bad governments and banana republics. That cannot be allowed to happen with Haiti. This "post-colonial" guilt that some fear is misplaced I think.


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  #51  
Old January 15th, 2010, 4:41 pm
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Re: Major Earthquake (7.3.) in Haiti - 12th January 2010

For rebuilding, technical help and aid to afford materials should certainly be given, and I do agree that as much of the work as possible should be done by Haitians themselves. However, some expertise and heavy equipment will undoubtedly have to be imported, and I think that it would be the responsible thing for both Haiti and other nations for these things to be brought in.

Monster_Mom: there is a recognition that there needs to be a sustained development model for people to be able to support an economy on their own. Ever hear of the Millenium Village project in Africa? It's run by the UN, in partnership with several private organizations, and it's been quite successful in combating poverty and malnutrition. One of the biggest recognitions that they (and other organizations like the microfinancing ones, etc) have had there is that it's by far more effective to both build from within the community and also to pay proper attention to local customs / culture / etc. These lessons are out there, and there are models that have worked. So when it comes time to rebuild, the infrastructure itself (houses, roads, other buildings, etc) may need a lot of help from the outside to get built properly, but at the same time in terms of attention to rebuilding an economy I think that people have already acted on what you note as problems.


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  #52  
Old January 15th, 2010, 4:41 pm
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Re: Major Earthquake (7.3.) in Haiti - 12th January 2010

Turns out Robertson didn't entirely pull this story outta his err... clear blue sky. There is a legend from 1791:
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpu...ith-satan.html
So at least now we know where he got this crazy idea from.
BTW, it's really silly because actual Voudun (What we call "voodoo") is actually something like 60% Catholicism!

Haiti needs to climb above it's other problem if it's to pull out of this disaster fully - like much of south Africa, the middle east,and other various third world countries, there is rampant corruption in government. (In 2006, Haiti was listed as the most corrupt government in the world.)This is often a large contributing factor to why a third world country is in the sad shape it's in and why it's people suffer so. Hopefully all the aid makes it to those who need it most!


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  #53  
Old January 16th, 2010, 3:29 pm
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Re: Major Earthquake (7.3.) in Haiti - 12th January 2010

Although I am an Independent with Conservative leanings, I am appalled by Rush Limbaugh's suggestion that we don't donate to Haiti because we already donate to Haiti through our taxes. Yes, he did not say not to help Haiti or Haitian People, but he is essentially suggesting we say "Screw 'em".

Folks, (most of us) are Americans! We run this country, not Rush Limbaugh! It is our duty as Americans to help those in need. Haiti, for whatever else it has ever been, is our neighbor, and needs our help. Be that help by donations of food, clothing, money, manpower to rescue or rebuild, open our doors to refugees, medical supplies, or (bite my tongue) FEMA Cards! (Whatever we do, don't send them trailers!)

FEMA has already asked me to be ready to go, and I will as soon as I am home from my regular job if they still need me in two weeks. I urge you all, Americans or otherwise, to help. Contact your government officials, the Red Cross, or whatever organizations exist in your area, and ask what is being done and what you can do. God forbid, someday you and your countrymen may be in need. Should that day ever come I hope help comes to you too.

Good Luck, and God Bless!

BTW, Haiti's infrastructure is so crippled now, that corruption is impossible to sidestep. At this point, without food, water, clothing, and shelter it is every person for themself. You think New Orleans was a lawless land for several months? Haiti will be plunged into Civil War within two weeks.


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  #54  
Old January 16th, 2010, 7:18 pm
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Re: Major Earthquake (7.3.) in Haiti - 12th January 2010

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Originally Posted by rigdoctorbri View Post
Although I am an Independent with Conservative leanings, I am appalled by Rush Limbaugh's suggestion that we don't donate to Haiti because we already donate to Haiti through our taxes. Yes, he did not say not to help Haiti or Haitian People, but he is essentially suggesting we say "Screw 'em".

Folks, (most of us) are Americans! We run this country, not Rush Limbaugh! It is our duty as Americans to help those in need. Haiti, for whatever else it has ever been, is our neighbor, and needs our help. Be that help by donations of food, clothing, money, manpower to rescue or rebuild, open our doors to refugees, medical supplies, or (bite my tongue) FEMA Cards! (Whatever we do, don't send them trailers!)

FEMA has already asked me to be ready to go, and I will as soon as I am home from my regular job if they still need me in two weeks. I urge you all, Americans or otherwise, to help. Contact your government officials, the Red Cross, or whatever organizations exist in your area, and ask what is being done and what you can do. God forbid, someday you and your countrymen may be in need. Should that day ever come I hope help comes to you too.


It's also fabulous to see George W Bush, Bill Clinton and President Obama standing shoulder to shoulder over this. No party has a monopoly on compassion and a situation like this shows that the desire to do good can transcend party divisions.


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Old January 16th, 2010, 7:27 pm
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Re: Major Earthquake (7.3.) in Haiti - 12th January 2010

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It's also fabulous to see George W Bush, Bill Clinton and President Obama standing shoulder to shoulder over this. No party has a monopoly on compassion and a situation like this shows that the desire to do good can transcend party divisions.
Exactly. Well-stated.


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  #56  
Old January 16th, 2010, 9:23 pm
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Re: Major Earthquake (7.3.) in Haiti - 12th January 2010

The hateful stuff just keeps coming, though. From Glenn Beck:

Glenn Beck"I also believe this is dividing the nation ... to where the nation sees him react so rapidly on Haiti and yet he couldn't react rapidly on Afghanistan. He couldn't react rapidly on Ft. Hood. He couldn't react rapidly on our own airplanes with an underwear bomber ... it doesn't make sense. [...]

"Three different events and Haiti is the only one. I think personally that it deepens he divide to see him react this rapidly to Haiti."


And from U.S. Representative Steve King (R-IA):

Rep. King"This sounds to me like open borders advocates exercising the Rahm Emanuel axiom: 'Never let a crisis go to waste'. Illegal immigrants from Haiti have no reason to fear deportation, but if they are deported, Haiti is in great need of relief workers and many of them could be a big help to their fellow Haitians."


I honestly can't decide which is more odious. Or how this lot compares to Robertson and Limbaugh a couple of days ago.


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  #57  
Old January 16th, 2010, 10:34 pm
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Re: Major Earthquake (7.3.) in Haiti - 12th January 2010

Probably King because he is an elected official and not a media blowhard.

Anyway, Haiti is not a case where you can expect the nation to rapidly stand on its feet. It hasn't the social, political, economic or technological infrastructure to turn around in even the medium term.


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  #58  
Old January 16th, 2010, 10:35 pm
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Re: Major Earthquake (7.3.) in Haiti - 12th January 2010

Robertson, Limbaugh and Beck are not known for their profound intelligence and reasoned opinions, so it's hardly a surprise that they offer such ignorant statements in response to a humanitarian catastrophe.


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Old January 16th, 2010, 10:46 pm
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Re: Major Earthquake (7.3.) in Haiti - 12th January 2010

Instead of focusing on comments we find outrageous, perhaps we can skip the insults and ignore them? Responses to disasters are supposed to unite and not divide people.

In fact, I'm going to go a bit further, on second thought, and say that I'm going to personally delete any more commentary that only expresses outrage at what one person or another said without offering any constructive commentary. By focusing on commentary we find outrageous, we're distracting from the real issues. So, move along.


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  #60  
Old January 16th, 2010, 10:46 pm
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Re: Major Earthquake (7.3.) in Haiti - 12th January 2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rigdoctor
"Although I am an Independent with Conservative leanings, I am appalled by Rush Limbaugh's suggestion that we don't donate to Haiti because we already donate to Haiti through our taxes. Yes, he did not say not to help Haiti or Haitian People, but he is essentially suggesting we say "Screw 'em".

Folks, (most of us) are Americans! We run this country, not Rush Limbaugh! It is our duty as Americans to help those in need. Haiti, for whatever else it has ever been, is our neighbor, and needs our help. Be that help by donations of food, clothing, money, manpower to rescue or rebuild, open our doors to refugees, medical supplies, or (bite my tongue) FEMA Cards! ..."
Thank you so much for this. This is something that should be above politics (even though sometimes politics of dealing with military, and so many different countries, plays a part). It's part of being a part of the human race.

I just spent the morning in a mission committee meeting who deals with UMCOR on these things (the United Methodists charities) and I can tell you there were many, very concerned and caring people who come from all spectrums of the political ideologies on other things, but all working together to help from that one corner. It'll take so many corners and coordination between them all.


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Last edited by Redhart; January 16th, 2010 at 10:51 pm.
 
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