A Game of Thrones

[alwaysme]

I actually teared up when Arya took out her sword and was headed up to her father. The whole time Ned was looking to make sure she couldn't see also had me upset. It was an emotional scene.

[jordmundt6]

Well, no not from Ned, but from what I understand about the first book, Arya went absolutely ballistic during the execution and tried to fight her way through the crowd. Syrio had to save her and then defend her from Lannister puppets (costing him his life). Come to think of it Arya should still have had Needle and didn't.

[dreyesbo]

Originally Posted by jordmundt6

Well, no not from Ned, but from what I understand about the first book, Arya went absolutely ballistic during the execution and tried to fight her way through the crowd. Syrio had to save her and then defend her from Lannister puppets (costing him his life). Come to think of it Arya should still have had Needle and didn't.

No, the scene in the book is the same as in the show. She tried to reach her father, but Yoren stopped her. She does have Needle in the show as well.

The only difference, is Ned spotting his daughter and telling Yoren about it.

[flimseycauldron]

Originally Posted by alwaysme

I actually teared up when Arya took out her sword and was headed up to her father. The whole time Ned was looking to make sure she couldn't see also had me upset. It was an emotional scene.

You know that part about not wanting her to see but wanting Bran to watch Ned kill the deserter in the beginning is kind of ironic is a very sad and macabre sort of way...

[Spacecadet]

Originally Posted by flimseycauldron

You know that part about not wanting her to see but wanting Bran to watch Ned kill the deserter in the beginning is kind of ironic is a very sad and macabre sort of way...

I was thinking the same thing, but its a little different to have a child watch an execution of a stranger than to watch the execution of their father.

[Lord Godric]

Originally Posted by dreyesbo

No, the scene in the book is the same as in the show. She tried to reach her father, but Yoren stopped her. She does have Needle in the show as well.

The only difference, is Ned spotting his daughter and telling Yoren about it.

Right. In the books Ned never knew Arya was in the crowd, but he had arranged ahead of time with Yoren to get Arya away. In the show it seems like he planned it ahead of time, but Ned told Yoren where Arya was. I believe he said "Baelor" to him as he walked by pointing out that Arya was sitting on the statue. And yes, she still has Needle.

Originally Posted by Spacecadet

I was thinking the same thing, but its a little different to have a child watch an execution of a stranger than to watch the execution of their father.

Exactly. Ned wanted Bran to learn how hard justice can be, but that doesn't mean Arya needs to sit and watch her father be murdered for false crimes.

[Moriath]

Originally Posted by Lord Godric

Right. In the books Ned never knew Arya was in the crowd, but he had arranged ahead of time with Yoren to get Arya away. In the show it seems like he planned it ahead of time, but Ned told Yoren where Arya was. I believe he said "Baelor" to him as he walked by pointing out that Arya was sitting on the statue. And yes, she still has Needle.

I found it more plausible this way. After all, not even people spending lots of time with Arya always recognise her because she often looks like a low-born boy. I always wondered how Yoren recognised Arya so quickly, seeing that he spent most of his time at the Wall or roaming around the kingdoms for new recruits. Whenever he was at Winterfell he must have had other things to do but familiarise himself with Lord Eddard's younger children.

[alwaysme]

Originally Posted by flimseycauldron

You know that part about not wanting her to see but wanting Bran to watch Ned kill the deserter in the beginning is kind of ironic is a very sad and macabre sort of way...

Yeah, the deserter scene I thought of once the episode was over. Very ironic.

I am so sad that next week is the finale. I really love the show and we have to wait a whole year before it comes on again.

[glacevenor]

Originally Posted by Moriath

I found it more plausible this way. After all, not even people spending lots of time with Arya always recognise her because she often looks like a low-born boy. I always wondered how Yoren recognised Arya so quickly, seeing that he spent most of his time at the Wall or roaming around the kingdoms for new recruits. Whenever he was at Winterfell he must have had other things to do but familiarise himself with Lord Eddard's younger children.

Actually, Arya was with Eddard in the Hand's Chambers when Yoren came to him asking for help with the new recruits, where in Ned king of introduced him to Arya as his daughter.

[Moriath]

Originally Posted by glacevenor

Actually, Arya was with Eddard in the Hand's Chambers when Yoren came to him asking for help with the new recruits, where in Ned king of introduced him to Arya as his daughter.

True but since she's only a child and one wouldn't really expect a lord's daughter to be outside the palace among the crowd, I wouldn't have expected Yoren to recognise her. I never found this quite plausible in the book.

[RemusPotter]

did anyone noticed the Wilhelm scream during the battle aftermath ?

[guad]

I'm a book reader but will try to keep this show centered

Originally Posted by ShadowSonic

Imagine if Viserys had also been immune to heat and fire like his sister was. The Dothraki would have more respect for him as more than human, but he'd walk around with that melted "crown" on his head for the rest of his life.

That would have been hilarious!

Originally Posted by Overdose

Haven't read the books, but I am really looking forward to the development of the Daenerys character in later series. I imagine that she will soon realise that she has to 'learn' how to be queen rather than take westeros because it is her 'right' as her brother thought. I think she'll first try and take somewhere like a city or some nonsense and then make a load of mistakes that will force her to reassess herself.

Interesting theory. I like how they have portrayed Dany so far, the development from meek shy princess to more fierce khaleesi is working well I think.

Originally Posted by alwaysme

Joffrey is just despicable.

Worst character in the series so far, for me. Anyone remembers how he promised Sansa that he'll respect her and wouldn't hurt her, back in episode 6?


And Moriath, you have the GREATJON in your signature!!!

[Moriath]

Originally Posted by guad

And Moriath, you have the GREATJON in your signature!!!

Of course! One of the best scenes so far! I love Robb's path to leadership.

[flimseycauldron]

Originally Posted by Lord Godric

Exactly. Ned wanted Bran to learn how hard justice can be, but that doesn't mean Arya needs to sit and watch her father be murdered for false crimes.

Yes and No. The thing is that when justice is served by death everything is in the eye of the beholder. Arya would not believe that Ned was guilty of any of the crimes Ned was accused of but she is just a young girl. She was never privy to what Ned was doing or how Ned really got to be in the position he was in. Imagine if Ned had been guilty. Would Arya have believed it? No. But it still would have been justice. Ned was trying to show Bran justice but there can also be misuse of power. Did Arya need to watch to get that lesson? No. But did Bran need to watch to get his lesson? Again no.

[Moriath]

Originally Posted by flimseycauldron

Ned was trying to show Bran justice but there can also be misuse of power. Did Arya need to watch to get that lesson? No. But did Bran need to watch to get his lesson? Again no.

Actually, in Ned's world he did. Bran wasn't his first-born but neither was Ned. One day, he may have to rule the North and then it's important that he knows what justice means and how it is handled honourably. Arya will never be in this position and, as much as he accepts her quirks and whims, Ned was always aware that Arya would have to marry one day and do what women do. GRRM's world is very medieval and women and men are not equals.

[Lord Godric]

Originally Posted by Moriath

Of course! One of the best scenes so far! I love Robb's path to leadership.

Robb's story has been, perhaps, the most enjoyable to see translated to the screen.

[flimseycauldron]

Originally Posted by Moriath

Actually, in Ned's world he did. Bran wasn't his first-born but neither was Ned. One day, he may have to rule the North and then it's important that he knows what justice means and how it is handled honourably.

Would he have allowed Bran or Rickon to watch his beheading? I just don't think he would have.

Originally Posted by Moriath

Arya will never be in this position and, as much as he accepts her quirks and whims, Ned was always aware that Arya would have to marry one day and do what women do. GRRM's world is very medieval and women and men are not equals.

I do agree with this.

Originally Posted by Lord Godric

Robb's story has been, perhaps, the most enjoyable to see translated to the screen.

I was never a fan of Robbs in the book but I feel much more drawn to his onscreen character.

[Wimsey]

Originally Posted by Moriath

Arya will never be in this position and, as much as he accepts her quirks and whims, Ned was always aware that Arya would have to marry one day and do what women do. GRRM's world is very medieval and women and men are not equals.

True; however, we also are told that Lysanna was very much like Arya, and Ned's views seem greatly affected by this. After all, he does arrange for Arya to have "dancing" lessons, which would have been deemed uncouth by their society.

This also touches close to what I think is the most important "point/counterpoint" of Ned's beheadings. His lesson to Bran is that the one dispensing justice should fully dispense justice just to understand how hard it is. We know that Robert did this, too, at least on some occasions. However, Joffery makes no move whatsoever to do this.

Originally Posted by flimseycauldron

I was never a fan of Robbs in the book but I feel much more drawn to his onscreen character.

Unlike Jon, Bran, Sansa & Arya, Robb never is a protagonist in the book: he's always a 2ndary or tertiary characters who's actions are observed by others. That makes it tougher to become attached to him.



I am wondering what more will be done with developing Lysanna. She is to this story what Lily Evans is to Harry Potter. Both of their deaths trigger the primary plot elements around which the stories and over-arching plots revolve, and both characters actually are strongly "present" even though neither is ever actually there, save in memory or vestige.

And, I'll bet my eye-teeth that we've got a reveal on Lysanna that will rival the one for Lily!

[icklek]

Originally Posted by Wimsey

True; however, we also are told that Lysanna was very much like Arya, and Ned's views seem greatly affected by this. After all, he does arrange for Arya to have "dancing" lessons, which would have been deemed uncouth by their society.

This also touches close to what I think is the most important "point/counterpoint" of Ned's beheadings. His lesson to Bran is that the one dispensing justice should fully dispense justice just to understand how hard it is. We know that Robert did this, too, at least on some occasions. However, Joffery makes no move whatsoever to do this.

Unlike Jon, Bran, Sansa & Arya, Robb never is a protagonist in the book: he's always a 2ndary or tertiary characters who's actions are observed by others. That makes it tougher to become attached to him.



I am wondering what more will be done with developing Lysanna. She is to this story what Lily Evans is to Harry Potter. Both of their deaths trigger the primary plot elements around which the stories and over-arching plots revolve, and both characters actually are strongly "present" even though neither is ever actually there, save in memory or vestige.

And, I'll bet my eye-teeth that we've got a reveal on Lysanna that will rival the one for Lily!

Who is Lysanna? I'm just about to start book 4 and haven't come across her yet, is she a new character? (No spoilers please!)

[Wimsey]

Originally Posted by icklek

Who is Lysanna? I'm just about to start book 4 and haven't come across her yet, is she a new character? (No spoilers please!)

Oops, sorry: Lyanna! (I always want to put an "s" in there.) Most of what we know about Lyanna is from the first book, and most of it is in the first TV series. For example, the first thing that Robert does upon arriving at Winterfell is to rush to her grave. When Ned confronts Cersei, she mentions Robert's undying love for Lyanna as another reason why she hates Robert: on their wedding night, Robert muttered Lyanna's name after sex! (Note to young men: do not do this!!!! ) Cersei asks Robert questions about Lyanna in a scene that is not in the book, but it does cover issues that are introduced differently in the book itself. (This is called "adaptation"... )

Book spoilers!

Spoiler: show

Lyanna was Ned's sister and betrothed to Robert Baratheon. However, Rhaegar Targaryen wound up "wooing" Lyanna after a major tournament, crowning her Queen of the tournament instead of his wife. Lyanna and Rhaegar then disappeared. This was assumed to be an abduction, which led to Robert's rebellion (as well as the death of Ned's elder brother and father).

We learn in the first book (and in the TV series first season) that Lyanna died after Ned freed her. She made Ned promise something, but we do not know the nature of that promise. However, many readers hypothesize (based on this and other details) Lyanna made Ned promise to raise her and Rhaegar's son as his own *******, who now is named "Jon Snow." And, of course, there is the suspicion that Lyanna was not abducted but willfully ran off with Rhaegar, who was (despite is insane father) an impressive Renaissance man.

(If you have read through the first four books, then you'll know that this is another reason why Cersei hates Lyanna and the Starks....)

The TV series actually has emphasized Lyanna a bit: she's come up several times. However, she's only been discussed: I think that some sort of "flashback" would have helped cement her.


So, like Lily, Lyanna is very much the pebble that started the avalanche of the plot. A lot of us think that we basically have the "Snape Loved Lily"-level reveal coming up in the next book! (I would stress that this cannot be called a spoiler: it's conjecture, but, like Snape+Lily 4 years ago, conjecture with support from the books.)