Little Questions Answered v.18

[mysterious]

Originally Posted by shaybo8

He raised Harry like a pig for slaughter. I felt really betrayed when I read his conversation with Snape, and nothing he said later really redeemed himself.

He raised Harry hoping that when the time came, Harry would understand his purpose and sacrifice himself (if needs be) for the greater good.

[wolfbrother]

Originally Posted by shaybo8

He raised Harry like a pig for slaughter. I felt really betrayed when I read his conversation with Snape, and nothing he said later really redeemed himself.

Yes, he did. He didn't have a choice though.

Its also important that Harry always had the choice to walk away. Dumbledore may have planned a lot of things but in the end, it was Harry's decision.

[shaybo8]

But Dumbledore knew what Harry was like. It's like telling Bellatrix to do something Voldemort would love her to do; of course she has a choice, but it's stupid to assume she would do anything other than what her personality and previous actions dictated.

And the "greater good" sound so Stalin-esque that applying it to Dumbledore doesn't make him sound like a better person.

Dumbledore toyed with Snape's emotions, so that he felt this great guilt and longing for Lily for sixteen years and thought he could redeem himself by protecting her son when really, he was just helping Dumbledore keep Harry safe for long enough to die.

Dumbledore was always one of my favorite characters (I even played him in an elementary school production of Harry Potter) and to have him be this ******* was really mindblowing.

If he really, truly cared for Harry, he wouldn't have risked his life so completely on a guess. (I'm not sure if I'm explaining myself as coherently as I'd like, it's after 3 AM) Point is, I lost a lot of respect for Dumbledore. Yes, it all worked out well in the end, but the huge risk that it wouldn't made Dumbledore seem all the more heartless.

[wolfbrother]

Originally Posted by shaybo8

But Dumbledore knew what Harry was like. It's like telling Bellatrix to do something Voldemort would love her to do; of course she has a choice, but it's stupid to assume she would do anything other than what her personality and previous actions dictated.

True, but Harry still had to make the choice. Harry is responsible for his own actions not Dumbledore.
Dumbledore couldn't tell Harry earlier because he needed him to go and destroy horcruxes. It would be pretty hard to focus on that job if you knew that you were going to die.

And the "greater good" sound so Stalin-esque that applying it to Dumbledore doesn't make him sound like a better person.

He did what was best for the wizarding community as a whole including planning his own death. Harry was not bigger than the community.

Dumbledore toyed with Snape's emotions, so that he felt this great guilt and longing for Lily for sixteen years and thought he could redeem himself by protecting her son when really, he was just helping Dumbledore keep Harry safe for long enough to die.

I don't think he toyed with Snape's emotions. When Snape was suicidal, he gave him a reason to live. Snape was shocked when he heard Dumbledore tell that Harry had to die but he would have understood that it had to happen because Harry was a horcrux.

Dumbledore was always one of my favorite characters (I even played him in an elementary school production of Harry Potter) and to have him be this ******* was really mindblowing.

If he really, truly cared for Harry, he wouldn't have risked his life so completely on a guess. (I'm not sure if I'm explaining myself as coherently as I'd like, it's after 3 AM) Point is, I lost a lot of respect for Dumbledore. Yes, it all worked out well in the end, but the huge risk that it wouldn't made Dumbledore seem all the more heartless.

Harry had a piece of Voldemort's soul in him. Without getting rid of it, Voldemort couldn't be killed. Harry had to die. It had to happen for the horcrux to be destroyed. He wasn't expected to survive. The blood taking scene in GoF gave Harry a loophole to survive death. It was a bonus that Dumbledore hoped would work.

Dumbledore has always been favorite character and DH only increased it. It takes some guts to be able to make objective decisions without involving emotions. Someone like Molly would have kept Harry under wraps while people kept dying.

[Chrysalis]

Agreed, wolfbrother. I thought I couldn't love Dumbledore more but DH made it possible. He had to make some very hard decisions. I don't think he used Snape, that man knew full well what he was getting himself into.

[Desecrate]

I dont understand why anyone would think Dumbledore had any other option. As long as Harry lived so to did Voldemort because that last piece of his soul was wholly inside of him. The flip side of "one shall die as the other survives" is "neither shall die while the other survives." They both had to "die" or they both had to "live." There was no middle ground. DD did it so that Harry came back though. DD knew Harry would live in the end (and hence why you should certainly never lose respect for him). In fact if anything, DD let himself die so others could live. I also have a feeling Snape did not mind dying. I think he only lived (instead of killing himself after Lily died) to protect Harry as the last penance for his actions. After Harry realized what he had to do, Snape did not mind dying (hence the memory).

[willfitz]

Originally Posted by shaybo8

He raised Harry like a pig for slaughter. I felt really betrayed when I read his conversation with Snape, and nothing he said later really redeemed himself.

Well, there's two ways to look at it. He either risked the life of one boy, or the lives of thousands of muggleborn witches and wizards, and probably others once Voldemort got bored. Either way, lives were at stake, and I think it is slightly naive to assume that everyone could all survive and live happily ever after. Dumbledore did the best with the cards he was dealt; there was no way to kill Voldemort until Harry was killed.

[renswic]

Originally Posted by shaybo8

Every thing Shaybo8 posted.

I think that Dumbledore knew about the horcruxes with in Harry all along. And never told him until the time was right.(would you tell an 11 year old that he would need to be willing to die to finish off Voldemort?)

As harry progressed in school and Dumbledore saw what kind of man he was going to be(6 years of tragic events where Harry was always ready to lay down his life for the good of others). lead Dumbledore to start shaping Harry for the upcoming battle knowing that he(Harry) would have a chance to decide on a quick death to save everyone and that Harry would have the chance to move on and let others finish Voldemort or go back and do it him self.


Did Dumbledore guide Harry to be a pig in the salaughder? No. He honestly told Harry what he could with out overwhelming Harry. He got Harry to the point where Harry could stop and go on to be with his non living family, Parents, Sirius and Lupin, or go back and be with his living family's, Hermione, The Weasley's and yes the Dursley's.

And yes I do think it was a jerk move on Dumbledore's part, but I do understand why it had to happen the way it did.

[9and3quarters]

Feel a little silly asking this but here's my question just to make sure my brain is correctly wrapped around the concept. I'm going to put spoiler tags around it though..

Spoiler: show

So, Dumbledore was disarmed by Draco at the Astronomy tower. That is significant because TECHNICALLY, that means Draco (at that point) was the Master of the Elder Wand. When Dumbledore was buried with the wand, the wand's allegiance was with Draco and that is why the Elder Wand never worked 'correctly' for Voldemort, correct? That is why Harry is able to defeat him in the end although Voldemort had the Elder Wand.

If anyone has anything to elaborate please do!

[Harry23]

Originally Posted by 9and3quarters

Feel a little silly asking this but here's my question just to make sure my brain is correctly wrapped around the concept. I'm going to put spoiler tags around it though..

Spoiler: show

So, Dumbledore was disarmed by Draco at the Astronomy tower. That is significant because TECHNICALLY, that means Draco (at that point) was the Master of the Elder Wand. When Dumbledore was buried with the wand, the wand's allegiance was with Draco and that is why the Elder Wand never worked 'correctly' for Voldemort, correct? That is why Harry is able to defeat him in the end although Voldemort had the Elder Wand.

If anyone has anything to elaborate please do!

Yes, and then when Harry disarmed Draco the wand's allegiance was with Harry. So that's why it wasn't working properly for Voldemort.

[9and3quarters]

Thanks Harry23.

The whole 'wandlore/wand rules' sections sometimes throw me off. Harry seems to do okay with Hermione's wand but I cannot remember if the spells he casts with her wand are as powerful. I'm guessing it's the same concept. I'd have to go reread.

[willfitz]

Originally Posted by 9and3quarters

Feel a little silly asking this but here's my question just to make sure my brain is correctly wrapped around the concept. I'm going to put spoiler tags around it though..

Spoiler: show

So, Dumbledore was disarmed by Draco at the Astronomy tower. That is significant because TECHNICALLY, that means Draco (at that point) was the Master of the Elder Wand. When Dumbledore was buried with the wand, the wand's allegiance was with Draco and that is why the Elder Wand never worked 'correctly' for Voldemort, correct? That is why Harry is able to defeat him in the end although Voldemort had the Elder Wand.

If anyone has anything to elaborate please do!

Not just because it did not belong to Voldemort. As far as I can tell, the wand not belonging to Voldemort did not give Harry an advantage, it just ensured that Voldemort didn't have another advantage over everyone aside from his immense power and skill.

The important thing is that it belonged to Harry, which is why it rebounded the curse. Like Harry said, Dumbledore's plan backfired, but not on Harry (ie the wand being attainable to Voldemort) but on Voldemort (the wand became Harry's, thus making him unbeatable with it).

Had the elder wand still belonged to Draco during the final duel, there would have been nothing to stop Voldemort from killing Harry.

[MiracleNye]

the conceptive spell? does it have a name?

Just a little research for muy story "Sorry love Daddy"

[heathurrr]

Originally Posted by renswic

I think that Dumbledore knew about the horcruxes with in Harry all along. And never told him until the time was right.(would you tell an 11 year old that he would need to be willing to die to finish off Voldemort?)

As harry progressed in school and Dumbledore saw what kind of man he was going to be(6 years of tragic events where Harry was always ready to lay down his life for the good of others). lead Dumbledore to start shaping Harry for the upcoming battle knowing that he(Harry) would have a chance to decide on a quick death to save everyone and that Harry would have the chance to move on and let others finish Voldemort or go back and do it him self.


Did Dumbledore guide Harry to be a pig in the salaughder? No. He honestly told Harry what he could with out overwhelming Harry. He got Harry to the point where Harry could stop and go on to be with his non living family, Parents, Sirius and Lupin, or go back and be with his living family's, Hermione, The Weasley's and yes the Dursley's.

And yes I do think it was a jerk move on Dumbledore's part, but I do understand why it had to happen the way it did.

I also think Dumbledore was well aware that Harry wouldn't really 'die.' He knew that if Harry willingly put himself on the line and offer himself up to be killed, that the piece of Voldemort's soul would leave him and Harry could go 'back to life' and live normally. [after defeating voldemort of course]

[MiracleNye]

does anyone know the answer to my question.
Want to write it in for the next chapter

[willfitz]

You mean a spell to conceive? I've never heard of such a thing.

[MiracleNye]

to stop conception
coz latin for conception is informatio
and latin for conceptive is also informatio

Originally Posted by willfitz

You mean a spell to conceive? I've never heard of such a thing.

Cool so i can make it up then!

What chapter does the deathly hallows part 1 finish on?

What chapter does the deathly hallows part 1 finish on?

[jeanine123]

Originally Posted by 9and3quarters

Thanks Harry23.

The whole 'wandlore/wand rules' sections sometimes throw me off. Harry seems to do okay with Hermione's wand but I cannot remember if the spells he casts with her wand are as powerful. I'm guessing it's the same concept. I'd have to go reread.

I think Hermione's wand worked alright for Harry because she lent it to him. IOW, she gave her wand, at least indirectly, permission to do Harry's bidding. I don't think it would have worked as well for him as it would for her but it would certainly work better for him than the blackthorn wand.

[WinterWolf]

Originally Posted by MiracleNye

What chapter does the deathly hallows part 1 finish on?

You mean the movie?

[Kat_Suki]

Originally Posted by MiracleNye

to stop conception
coz latin for conception is informatio
and latin for conceptive is also informatio
Cool so i can make it up then!

Like willfitz said, there's no spell mentioned as such in HP. As for informatio, that's more like for "outline, concept, idea" and not at all what you're talking about. What you're thinking of is more like:

Latin contra = against
Latin conceptus/concipere/conceptio/conceptionem = concieve/conception

FYI, if this is for a fanfic you're writing please be aware of the fanfic policy and it's PG-13 guidelines for this fansite.

Originally Posted by MiracleNye

What chapter does the deathly hallows part 1 finish on?

The film of Deathly Hallows Part 1 ended with Voldemort getting the Elder Wand; that happened at the end of chapter 24 in the Deathly Hallows book: "The Wandmaker".