Deathly Hallows Part 1 - Open Discussion

[GingerCat1]

Originally Posted by bellatrix93

I think it's only natural (in both the book and the movie) that Harry and Hermione would have some sort of bond between them, considering what they've gone through together. That's why I didn't feel so bad when they didn't keep in the line with Hary saying Hermione is only a sister to him, because I thought it was rather obvious.

Unfortunately due to comments from the cast and director it is impossible to say that that dance in the movie was merely a dance between friends.

Not including the sister comment only continues on the love triangle that the movies have set up.

[bellatrix93]

Originally Posted by DigficWriter

Anyway, I'm kind of surprised that nobody's commented on my post regarding Moody's eyeball, especially since I think it was a pretty inspired and brilliant stylistic design choice to have said eyeball appear to be set into the door of Umbridge's office instead of going strictly by what was written in JKR's text.

I noticed it was fixed in the door. But forgive me I don't understand, do you mean it's supposed to excuse Harry for leaving it where it is?

[DigificWriter]

^ Yes, that's exactly what I'm trying to say. At the point in the story where Runcorn!Harry goes into Umbridge's office, he's trying to attract as little attention to himself as possible; because the filmmakers designed the door of Umbridge's office so that the eyeball was actually set into the door itself, it would have been impossible for Harry to have removed it without doing the very thing he was trying to avoid, since doing so would require him to blast the door apart using magic.

[Erin6]

Originally Posted by GingerCat1

Unfortunately due to comments from the cast and director it is impossible to say that that dance in the movie was merely a dance between friends.

Not including the sister comment only continues on the love triangle that the movies have set up.

The sister line not being there bothers me simply because it was like the final thing in Ron getting over his insecurities regarding Harry and Hermione. I'm pretty disappointed with how they handled the whole aftermath between Ron and Harry after Ron destroys the locket.

[Apheka]

I planned to have made my second visit to DH by now but caught a horrible virus. I keep remembering details from the movie but wanted to check before I posted but on the other thread we wondered how they would re-build The Burrow and I think they did a fantastic job. The round stone part with the odd bits on top looked like it had been rebuilt out of the old. I liked it but not as much as the original Burrow.

[snugglepot]

Originally Posted by MasterOfDeath

I saw it with my dad tonight. To my suprise he was able to follow it more than I expected. He didn't realize Ron had left until much later when he wasn't seeing him around. He was like, "where's Ron??" and that was kind of a hand to the forehead moment. But he got that they needed the sword to destroy horcruxes and that they destroyed the locket. He thought there were five left but I reminded him about the ring and diary. I THINK he understood the Tale of the Three Brothers and the Deathly Hallows. He definitely understand the Elder Wand, just that it's the most powerful wand of all and Dumbledore had it, which I guess is enough. He wondered where Snape was and wanted to see more of him. He thought it was stupid that they were having a wedding in such a dangerous time and he thought most of the people at the wedding were killed. He thought the Seven Potters plan was brilliant. Lastly, Meesha is going to be thrilled at this but he asked me about the Harry/Hermione dance and said he was confused because he thought Harry loved Ginny, Ron's sister! I explained that the dance was just two friends but it can be confusing for non-book readers, I guess. He's still not too hot on Ron/Hermione. He thinks Hermione is too cold and mean to Ron all the time...

Not that this matters but I thought you all might be interested in a 'muggle' reaction.

I like his reaction, especially the part "....Hermione is too cold and mean to Ron all the time..."
She does seem kind of that way, affectionate with Harry and a shrew with Ron!

[Erin6]

Originally Posted by snugglepot

I like his reaction, especially the part "....Hermione is too cold and mean to Ron all the time..."
She does seem kind of that way, affectionate with Harry and a shrew with Ron!

That's just because she loves him. lol

[Yoana]

I'm frankly astonished that so many people are not only seeing this dance as some sort of a mating ritual, but pointing it out almost like it's adultery or something. Wow. You know, not every one on one interaction between a man and a woman has sexual subtext. That strikes me as a rather paranoid idea. When I watched, I could only see it as Harry trying to cheer Hermione up. And I loved that, because he's so cold to her in the book, and I hated that. I just love this alteration, because it makes Harry look so much better than he does in the book.

As for what the cast and the director said, I read that as doing it because the film needed some sort of sexual tension in it, and since they split the plot in two, they can't have it with Ron and Hermione in this film, leave it, then pick it up in the next one six months from now. It won't work. Moreover, the fact that they throw this potentially ambiguous scene at viewers now would reinforce the impact of the final resolution of the love plot in the final film - "So, it was Ron after all! They almost threw me off." However I look at this, I love the scene. It's a great idea, in my opinion.

[Erin6]

Originally Posted by Yoana

I'm frankly astonished that so many people are not only seeing this dance as some sort of a mating ritual, but pointing it out almost like it's adultery or something. Wow. You know, not every one on one interaction between a man and a woman has sexual subtext. That strikes me as a rather paranoid idea. When I watched, I could only see it as Harry trying to cheer Hermione up. And I loved that, because he's so cold to her in the book, and I hated that. I just love this alteration, because it makes Harry look so much better than he does in the book.

As for what the cast and the director said, I read that as doing it because the film needed some sort of sexual tension in it, and since they split the plot in two, they can't have it with Ron and Hermione in this film, leave it, then pick it up in the next one six months from now. It won't work. Moreover, the fact that they throw this potentially ambiguous scene at viewers now would reinforce the impact of the final resolution of the love plot in the final film - "So, it was Ron after all! They almost threw me off." However I look at this, I love the scene. It's a great idea, in my opinion.

The dance doesn't bother me anymore in terms of Hermione because she clearly walks away and chooses Ron. I just wish Ron and Hermione could get a scene like that. I wish there was some balance.

[free_elf]

Originally Posted by Erin6

The dance doesn't bother me anymore in terms of Hermione because she clearly walks away and chooses Ron. I just wish Ron and Hermione could get a scene like that. I wish there was some balance.

It would've been a nice parallel if they had had a Ron/Hermione dance at the wedding to compare/contrast.

[Erin6]

Originally Posted by free_elf

It would've been a nice parallel if they had had a Ron/Hermione dance at the wedding to compare/contrast.

I agree, or they should have just kept in the skipping stones scene. I still don't get how it didn't fit the tone of the movie, but whatever. lol

[bellatrix93]

Originally Posted by free_elf

It would've been a nice parallel if they had had a Ron/Hermione dance at the wedding to compare/contrast.

Yes, I was wishing they'd let Ron and Hermione, as well as Ginny and Harry dance. It would/should've made it (more) clear who is interested in whom.
I think I like look on Ron's face when he sees Hermione at the wedding, btw.

On a related note, I wonder why they didn't bother to keep Victor Krum in DH at the wedding, when they got Madame Maxim there.

[Erisa]

Originally Posted by Erin6

The sister line not being there bothers me simply because it was like the final thing in Ron getting over his insecurities regarding Harry and Hermione. I'm pretty disappointed with how they handled the whole aftermath between Ron and Harry after Ron destroys the locket.

I think Ron got over his insecurities with the destruction of the locket. But I agree that something was missing between Harry and Ron. Ron doesn't say he's sorry for leaving, Harry doesn't thank Ron for saving his life or say Dumbledore knew Ron would always want to come back. A friend of mine, who has only seen the films once, felt that neither Harry nor Hermione had completely forgiven Ron for leaving in this film. Hermione is understandably mad at Ron and I feel they portrayed that well but Harry was ecstatic to have Ron back in the book and that wasn't in the film. It is kind of disappointing because I think Dan and Rupert work well together. I loved their scene together at the Burrow and they were great in the fight.

As for who has better chemistry I think it is completely subjective but I feel like Dan, Emma and Rupert all have great chemistry together. They have known each other for ten years and it shows on screen. I think many critics have noticed that the trio's chemistry works well for this film.

Originally Posted by bellatrix93

On a related note, I wonder why they didn't bother to keep Victor Krum in DH at the wedding, when they got Madame Maxim there.

I think that if Madame Maxim hadn't been standing next to Hagrid she would also have been cut from the film.

[deluminated]

I have seen the film twice now and think it is fabulous.
There were so many things that were just as I imagined them, such as Dumbledore's "ghost" at Grimmauld Place, Harry waking up and seeing R/Hr hands close together, the DE crashing the wedding and The Silver Doe scenes.
The first time I saw the dance between H/Hr I was a bit uncomfortable as I had read so much about it on here. I saw/felt some tension but the 2nd time I saw it, I didn't see or feel that tension at all. Strange.
I think that the locket kiss was meant to be provoke an extreme reaction and that Hr is more passionate than H is even more provocative for Ron. It's one of the most uncomfortable scenes for me to read as Voldemort is delving into areas that Ron will not have wanted being made public to either H or Hr.

I liked the small details that I missed the first time and look forward to having a dvd to pour over. (The slates missing on part of The Burrow's roof to indicate a rebuild/repair. )

I did miss Harry/Ron's interaction after the locket was destroyed. I would have liked the sister line and a bit of resolution about Ron returning.
I also wanted Ron shouting for Hermione whilst in the cellar.

Beautiful scenery (I love my country) and beautiful music to boot.

[Pearl_Took]

Catching up on a few things ...

Originally Posted by meesha1971

That's actually the type of film I normally prefer. I'm not real big on action films - I tend to find them very uninteresting. I don't mind it being part of the story, but too many films make it the focus of the film and ignore the story these days, IMO. Sometimes there are scenes that need to drag because that is the point - which is the case for the camping in DH. It's supposed to feel endless and depressing because that is what it felt like to the trio - they are isolated, not making any progress, worried about their loved ones, and they have this evil Horcrux messing with their minds. This is not a cheerful situation where time is flying by because they're having so much fun - and it's not supposed to be. If the audience can't understand how isolated and miserable they are, then the filmmakers did not do their job, IMO ...

Well, yes, I enjoy quietly emotional dramas too. One of my very favourite films of all time is Ang Lee's Sense and Sensibility, a Jane Austen adaptation. Quiet interludes can add much to a film ... as long as the plot is going somewhere!

That infamous dance scene ...

I'm more interested in what they intended to present and how it actually was presented than interpretations. For me a film or a book is the same as being told a story - what I want it to be is irrelevant. I have to look at what it actually is - what the author and the director intended is significant to that. Yates made his position clear - he wanted this scene to show sexual tension between Harry and Hermione. Dan made it clear that he was instructed to show that Harry was feeling lust for Hermione because they are isolated and Harry was lonely - she was the only girl available. It's not about friendship - it's about lust and sexual tension. That was the whole point of the dance scene according to Yates and Dan. And that is what I saw on screen - Dan trying very hard to make it appear that Harry was attempting to seduce Hermione.

I must point out, Meesha, that I saw the film before I was aware of Dan and Yates's comments about the dance scene being about sexual tension. So I didn't have any presuppositions about that scene whatsoever. To me, on my first viewing, it just seemed kind of dorky Only in retrospect -- and inevitably coloured now by the comments of Dan and David! -- can I see what they were getting at.

Galadriel don't need no SFX

I got that - I was agreeing with you.

I know.

Originally Posted by GingerCat1

Unfortunately due to comments from the cast and director it is impossible to say that that dance in the movie was merely a dance between friends.

Not including the sister comment only continues on the love triangle that the movies have set up.

Well, the Tolkien fandom survived the Aragorn/Arwen/Eowyn thing all right ... I say that to encourage you. I am pretty darned sure that Ron and Hermione will get their Moment in the final film.

In any case, the Harry/Hermione dance is hardly more important than all the big, epic themes of light and darkness going on in this story ...

[sugniD]

You know what, I could understand people getting annoyed about this whole dance scene if the song playing was some romantic number and they were slow dancing looking into each others eyes, but the song was the least romantic song ever and Dan was dancing like a prat. How some of you can interpret that as sexual tension is beyond me.

I think a lot of people were determined to hate this scene no matter what, and that's certainly their prerogative. However, as someone who didn't know what to expect of this scene when I heard about it, I came out of the theater feeling like it was one of the best scenes in the film (and I'm not a shipper for any of the pairings). In my mind, there was nothing at all romantic about the scene, but I can see why some people may feel differently, either because that's what they wanted to see to justify their dislike of the scene, or because they felt some of the actor's portrayal was based on more than just one friend trying to cheer up another (of course, it didn't help that some of the comments from the director/actors involved suggested it was more then a friendly dance, but I digress).

Best statement about the subject.

You would think that people would want to talk about the countless other things that happened in the film besides a 3 min dance....

[bellatrix93]

Originally Posted by Erisa

I think that if Madame Maxim hadn't been standing next to Hagrid she would also have been cut from the film.

She was not at the wedding in the book, was she? . That's why I thought it odd that they should include her and exclude Krum who was there in the book..

[Pearl_Took]

Originally Posted by sugniD

... and Dan was dancing like a prat.

Best quotation on this whole subject.

You would think that people would want to talk about the countless other things that happened in the film besides a 3 min dance....

Indeed ...!!

I'd like to mention the portrayal of the Death Eaters in the film, for example.

It was great to see the DEs and Snatchers portrayed as seriously nasty people that you really, really don't want to mess with.

For example ... Imelda Staunton exuded icy, self-righteous malevolence as Umbridge.

And Peter Mullan was terrific as Yaxley: menacing, brutal and authoritative. (Mullan is a Scottish actor and a film director.)


I'd also like to say that I loved the Polyjuice potion wearing off during the Ministry Heist (a great sequence all round). It amped up the tension wonderfully ... and I loved the expression on Harry/Runcorn's face as he confronted Umbridge when she was interrogating the other guy's wife. Go Harry!

[bellatrix93]

Originally Posted by PearlTook

It was great to see the DEs and Snatchers portrayed as seriously nasty people that you really, really don't want to mess with.

I think the Deathly Hallows is the first HP film where I felt the DEs are really impressive.

I agree with you about Mullan as Yaxley. He is absolutely intimidating.

.. and I loved the expression on Harry/Runcorn's face as he confronted Umbridge when she was interrogating the other guy's wife. Go Harry!

I liked the 'One must not tell lies'. It's a nice nod to OotP and Harry having to cut the words 'I must not tell lies' into his hands. I only noticed the similarity between the two lines on my second watch.

[SopophorousBean]

I thought they should have kept Krum in, he was cast and there were pictures of him so he must have just been cut, but I thought he played quite an important role in the book when he told Harry about the symbol being Grindelwald's mark, which was something they didn't use in the film. That would have put more doubt in to Harry's mind about Dumbledore and explained a bit more about who Grindelwald actually is which didn't seem to clear in the film either (to non-book readers anyway)

The more I reflect on the ministry scenes the more I love them I need to see it again so much! I wish they'd have kept the taking of Moody's eye, but I guess in the book that was used as the thing that gave away there were intruders whereas they Polyjuice potion wearing off in the film worked really well. Especially when Mary Cattermole goes "Is that Harry Potter?" and Ron replies "So it is, that'll be something to tell the kids,"