Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - Part Two [incl. SPOILERS]

[mexicant]

If you're looking in here, chances are you've seen the first movie. To that end...

Be aware: The purpose of this thread is to discuss any movie news coming from official sources only. You can discuss the movie plot based on the information we have so far. If you don't want to be spoiled, this isn't the thread for you.

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Now, this is not a thread to discuss DH1 or say how much you loved it or hated it or whatever it is your feelings may be. This is to discuss the final installment of Harry Potter films and where things will be going from here.
A few questions to start us out:

• In light of the way the story was condensed for the first movie, is it your opinion that the second will do the original story justice?
• We know that JKR was a producer for the Deathly Hallows films; do you feel it made an impact on how pertinent details were conveyed in the first installment in a positive or negative way, and how do you see it impacting part two?
• After seeing the first film, do you think that there will be plot holes in the second or do you think that things will be resolved nicely?

Feel free to answer them, skip them, or even ask some of your own. I know I'm more excited than I thought I would be for July 15th to roll around. ^_^

[shaybo8]

I hope Dumbledore's backstory will be explored in the second! If not, I'll be really disappointed. But I think they're setting that up with the introduction of Gindelwald.

[thePuff003]

The actor who plays Aberforth has said he talks about Dumbledore's past.

[free_elf]

I have confidence that such issues such as Wormtail's death, Dumbledore's backstory, the explanation for the Silver Doe will all be explained in Part II. Therefore filling the "holes" in Part I (being a single movie split in two it seems wrong to call them plot holes just yet).

Though, I'm a little concerned about whether or not they will explain how Harry got hold of the mirror shard. That has been my only gripe in Part I (and even then, I don't really mind if it's never explained, it'll just niggle at me like the lack of full explanation for the Maruader's Map in PoA).

[Fleur du mal]

Originally Posted by mexicant

• In light of the way the story was condensed for the first movie, is it your opinion that the second will do the original story justice?
• After seeing the first film, do you think that there will be plot holes in the second or do you think that things will be resolved nicely?

Well, after having seen the first movie, I had to revise my opinion on a whole lot of points. I had believed that Part I would cover all expositional purposes, however, at least in my opinion, it did not, and for a normal (non-readers) audience to actually understand what's going to happen in Part II, I'm afraid they'll have to cover a whole lot of ground.

- Wandlore. Tricky even in the books, even harder to convey on screen I think. I mean, of course Ollivander, now that he's been rescued, could give a five-minute speech on the subject, that just wouldn't be very good film-making, so I'm interested how they're going to resolve this - or the end-duel between Harry and Voldemort will be absolutely unintelligible.

- Albus' backstory. I had believed they'd deal with it in Part I, simply because I had believed they'd have enough time here. Right now, I ask myself how much of it they're actually going to include.

- the darned Horcruxes. It's a problem I had with the book, too, because in there, there were just too many "household goods" for my liking. There's all the items Dumbledore bequeaths to the Trio, the mirror shard, then there's the Sword of Gryffindor AND the copy of the Sword of Gryffindor, the Hallows themselves (and Harry hasn't, so far, figured out where those would be either), and the Horcruxes on top. And never forget: these things aren't just "things", they have complex concepts which are very crucial to the plot. I think it is going to prove extremely difficult to explain all these satisfyingly to the non-reading audience. Last night, I had a lengthy discussion with what I'd call "a casual HP reader", i.e., someone who did actually read the books, but never qualified as an "expert". He so didn't get it, he got all the stuff mixed up. And that's someone KNOWING the books, so I cannot begin to imagine how a movies-only fan is supposed to understand and keep track on all these different items, with all the theoretical concepts connected to them.

So, these are the "problems" I can come up with off the top of my head, which could turn into serious "plot holes" in Part II. Of course, it'd be POSSIBLE to resolve all these problems via extensive exposition, but too much exposition makes a bad watching experience.

[Jumpman]

Another crucial element that must, absolutely must be explained in Part 2 is how Voldemort knew of the Prophecy. I have a pretty good idea where it's going but technically speaking, the audience who only uses the films as their guide through this story don't really know specifically why Voldemort wants to kill Potter and how he came to choose Potter in the first place.

That second part was suppose to be in HBP but I knew they'd save it for Snape's Memory when it didn't show up in Half-Blood Prince. It is the absolute only place it can go...and it is absolutely essential to understanding the entire story.

I'm not saying the films will be a bust if it doesn't get it due, but...we've got to know how Voldemort came to choose Harry as his "equal." Harry and we the audience know that Voldemort marked him as his equal. What we don't know is why....

[Carne]

I'm just worried of how the final battle will turn out. And the giants. They better not turn out like Grawp.

Oh, and I also hope Hagrid gets to do a fair share of fighting.

[weasley9]

I think they'll raise Harry's issues over his doubt with Dumbledore at Shell Cottage and Hermione will mention all the stuff she's read about in the Life and Lies of Albus Dumbledore (she was shown reading it a lot in DH 1). Then this will be resolved with Aberforth.

[Jumpman]

weasley,

Actually, you might be right. I forgot about Hermione reading the book towards the end of the film.

I'm starting to think that we'll be spending a lot more time at Shell Cottage than I originally thought.

[Fleur du mal]

Originally Posted by Jumpman

weasley,

Actually, you might be right. I forgot about Hermione reading the book towards the end of the film.

I'm starting to think that we'll be spending a lot more time at Shell Cottage than I originally thought.

Yes, well - this is actually the reason why I fully expected all the exposition to take place in Part I. They could have talked A LOT while walking through woods and along beaches and sitting in their tent and whatelse. With the possible exception of Albus' past, which can be shown via flashbacks, all other vital concepts are very much "verbose", and I really cannot picture how they want to bring those across with Hermione and Mr. Ollivander squatting in Shell Cottage and explaining all these for fifteen minutes screentime.

[weasley9]

Originally Posted by Jumpman

weasley,

Actually, you might be right. I forgot about Hermione reading the book towards the end of the film.

I'm starting to think that we'll be spending a lot more time at Shell Cottage than I originally thought.

It's the only way I can see it going. It was set up nicely in Part 1.

I envision part 2 opening like this:

WB LOGO

Godrics Hollow flashback

HP 2 Logo

Shot of Harry standing in front of Dobby's grave. Shot of the words "Here Lies Dobby: a Free Elf". Few moments of Harry being sad and deep in thought, then Ron and Hermione come up, a bit of dialogue, then they go to speak with Griphook and Ollivander. These talks will serve as a good way to recap Part 1.

After this, the issue with Dumbledore can somehow be raised (through them talking about how Voldemort has the Elder Wand or something), then Hermione can talk about what she's read and Harry can raise doubt.

[Jumpman]

weasley,

I can easily see that happening.

Still, I'm also worried about the Prophecy part that relates to how Voldemort first learned about it from Snape. I mean, this info is vital for the audience to understand why Voldemort went after Harry in the first place. This has to happen.

[SiriusBlack101]

Originally Posted by weasley9

It's the only way I can see it going. It was set up nicely in Part 1.

I envision part 2 opening like this:

WB LOGO

Godrics Hollow flashback

HP 2 Logo

Shot of Harry standing in front of Dobby's grave. Shot of the words "Here Lies Dobby: a Free Elf". Few moments of Harry being sad and deep in thought, then Ron and Hermione come up, a bit of dialogue, then they go to speak with Griphook and Ollivander. These talks will serve as a good way to recap Part 1.

After this, the issue with Dumbledore can somehow be raised (through them talking about how Voldemort has the Elder Wand or something), then Hermione can talk about what she's read and Harry can raise doubt.

I feel this would be a perfect opening to DH2. The Godric's Hollow flashback is an important scene, and I'm convinced it will be in considering we did see new shots of James and Lily dead during Part 1.

And the talks with Ollivander/Griphook are actually a nice tool at the filmmaker's disposal because it offers the perfect opportunity for recap while still learning new information.

Originally Posted by Jumpman

Still, I'm also worried about the Prophecy part that relates to how Voldemort first learned about it from Snape. I mean, this info is vital for the audience to understand why Voldemort went after Harry in the first place. This has to happen.

I suspect Snape overhearing the prophecy will be part of the Prince's Tale in some capacity, especially since it has not been mentioned at all in the films to date (and the prophecy itself has been glossed over). I believe Emma Thompson did film a few days for Part 2, so we may see here giving the prophecy, or at least her voice as Snape listens at the door.

[Jumpman]

I wouldn't say the Prophecy was glossed over. We get 85% of it in Order of the Phoenix.

Still, you're right. Ever since it was absent in HBP, I automatically figured the Prince's Tale would be where they delivered that important piece of info.

[Clueless]

Originally Posted by Fleur du mal

Well, after having seen the first movie, I had to revise my opinion on a whole lot of points. I had believed that Part I would cover all expositional purposes, however, at least in my opinion, it did not, and for a normal (non-readers) audience to actually understand what's going to happen in Part II, I'm afraid they'll have to cover a whole lot of ground.

- Wandlore. Tricky even in the books, even harder to convey on screen I think. I mean, of course Ollivander, now that he's been rescued, could give a five-minute speech on the subject, that just wouldn't be very good film-making, so I'm interested how they're going to resolve this - or the end-duel between Harry and Voldemort will be absolutely unintelligible.

- Albus' backstory. I had believed they'd deal with it in Part I, simply because I had believed they'd have enough time here. Right now, I ask myself how much of it they're actually going to include.

- the darned Horcruxes. It's a problem I had with the book, too, because in there, there were just too many "household goods" for my liking. There's all the items Dumbledore bequeaths to the Trio, the mirror shard, then there's the Sword of Gryffindor AND the copy of the Sword of Gryffindor, the Hallows themselves (and Harry hasn't, so far, figured out where those would be either), and the Horcruxes on top. And never forget: these things aren't just "things", they have complex concepts which are very crucial to the plot. I think it is going to prove extremely difficult to explain all these satisfyingly to the non-reading audience. Last night, I had a lengthy discussion with what I'd call "a casual HP reader", i.e., someone who did actually read the books, but never qualified as an "expert". He so didn't get it, he got all the stuff mixed up. And that's someone KNOWING the books, so I cannot begin to imagine how a movies-only fan is supposed to understand and keep track on all these different items, with all the theoretical concepts connected to them.

So, these are the "problems" I can come up with off the top of my head, which could turn into serious "plot holes" in Part II. Of course, it'd be POSSIBLE to resolve all these problems via extensive exposition, but too much exposition makes a bad watching experience.

Very interesting read. I do agree with all of the points you raised. At first thought, it felt like the first part of the DH movie covered quite a lot of ground. But now to rethink, plenty of the very complex plots weren't fully explained.

I doubt that the movie will follow as closely to the book as the first part of the movie. Because the last few chapters of DH was a lot to absorb even for a book, so many questions and mysteries answered. Especially the King's Cross scene, so much was said. It would be really dry for a non-reader to sit through all this, and nearly impossible to understand everything on a first-viewing.

Thus I can only hope they don't overly mutilate the plot. Keeping it as close to the original plot while not having it be overly dull.

[Chudleycanons]

I'm really hoping that part 2 does both Dumbledore's story AND Snape's story justice. One of the most memorable parts in the book for me was the revealing of Snapes whole part in the plan and the big reveal that he is actually a good guy. I wonder if they will have full flashbacks in to Snapes past with Lilly and James or if it will be made up of quick little flashbacks like in OotP when Harry sees James picking on him.

[Magical_Me]

Glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks Part 2 should open with the Godric's Hollow sequence. In fact, I thought that the first time I read the "flashback" in the book. Obviously I didn't know the movie was going to be split in two at the time, but it just made sense to me, and still does.

And because I'm a sucker for finales recalling their origins, I'd love for the final shot of the prologue to be of baby Harry's scar, segueing into the title card, a la Philosopher's Stone. The huge statement of Hedwig's theme from the first film might be a bit much, but it'd certainly get my attention.

[Voldemorts8thHorcrux]

You know, now that I think about it, they shouldve included a lot more in Part 1. I know that not all the explanation was in part 1, but in order to cut down on the time and make it easier to follow, a LOT more shouldve been in part one for non book readers. On the other hand, it's possible that maybe they just want to do it in part two so it's fresher in peoples minds?

[itstonks]

i know people may jump jump my throat about the irrelivance but i hope in the shell cottage scenes they include Lupins visit (i mean they have to announce Tonks giving birth and being pregnant in the first place somehow considering they have cast a Teddy Lupin).

mostly im worried about how the battle of hogwarts will pan out. Harry's part in the fight is of course the most crutial element to the story but the other characters who have been given fighting roles/roles in the lead up to the battle in the book (eg. lupin, ginny, tonks, the teachers, hagrid) will have their scenes, at least in passing. I'm hoping they don't kill off character without at least showing there scenes (from the book) in the lead up to their demise.

it will be interesting to see how they convey the princes tale, kings cross and the scene with harry and the ressurection stone.

[Erin6]

I don't remember Lupin visiting Shell Cottage in the book. Can someone tell me what was going on there?