Romantic moments & that scene in Deathly Hallows

[Morgoth]

This thread is to discuss the romantic scenes in DHp1+p2, but moreover I suspect you will all be debating the scene between Harry & Hermione... you know the one.

Let's remember to be nice and civil. The books have established the end game for relationships, so this is about the movies introducing their own "what if" moments, pure speculation.

We will monitor this thread closely and issue warnings to people who start arguments and don't quit when told to by Mods.

[Erin6]

Sigh. lol I don't what else I can say that I haven't already said. I obviously hated the dance. I didn't like Harry trying to seduce Hermione. I think it does a real disservice to his character. Harry would never go after the girl that his best friend loves. It really made me look at him differently. The dance was a huge mistake IMO. It also makes me doubt even more that Harry even likes Ginny. I also hate that Ron and Hermione don't get scenes anywhere near that intimate. They never get to be alone, and if they actually film scenes with them alone they are cut. It's just super frustrating. That's not to say that they didn't have some nice moments in this movie, but Harry was always there. Even a nice little intimate moment between them after the 7 potters had to turn into a Harry moment.

[magic_is_might]

Yay, my thread got created

Anyway, as for "that scene", I just think it's been ridiculously blown out of proportion.

I can see where the issue lies, but I personally didn't sense the sexual or romantic subtext that many got from it.

And if I were to read into it, I found it to be a fleeting "what if" moment, if anything. And could be seen as the path Hermione could've easily taken. But she doesn't, because her heart is with Ron's

[free_elf]

Really, after thinking about it, discussing it and reading so much about it, my mind is pretty frazzled.

But really to sum up, I'm much the same as Magic_is_Might (despite the fact that we support different ships, I believe?) in that really it seems to boil down to a "what if" moment. I don't think Harry intended to seduce Hermione or Hermione intended to lead Harry on. The "will they won't they moment" was borne more out of their immediate situation. And in this way I think it would more about general lust. To me it was more that, if there was any thought in either of their minds it was more a result of "I want comfort and physical intimacy and you're the only one here for me at the moment."

Basically, I don't think Harry was thinking "I want to kiss Hermione" but simply "I want to kiss." As such, it came across that there weren't any real feelings just the need for intimacy.

I think that pretty much sums up my view.

[Erin6]

Originally Posted by free_elf

Really, after thinking about it, discussing it and reading so much about it, my mind is pretty frazzled.

But really to sum up, I'm much the same as Magic_is_Might (despite the fact that we support different ships, I believe?) in that really it seems to boil down to a "what if" moment. I don't think Harry intended to seduce Hermione or Hermione intended to lead Harry on. The "will they won't they moment" was borne more out of their immediate situation. And in this way I think it would more about general lust. To me it was more that, if there was any thought in either of their minds it was more a result of "I want comfort and physical intimacy and you're the only one here for me at the moment."

Basically, I don't think Harry was thinking "I want to kiss Hermione" but simply "I want to kiss." As such, it came across that there weren't any real feelings just the need for intimacy.

I think that pretty much sums up my view.

My biggest issue is that she should be having scenes like that with Ron not Harry. The fact that they cut Ron and Hermione's dance just makes it worse for me.

[magic_is_might]

Originally Posted by free_elf

Really, after thinking about it, discussing it and reading so much about it, my mind is pretty frazzled.

But really to sum up, I'm much the same as Magic_is_Might (despite the fact that we support different ships, I believe?) in that really it seems to boil down to a "what if" moment. I don't think Harry intended to seduce Hermione or Hermione intended to lead Harry on. The "will they won't they moment" was borne more out of the moment. And in this way I think it would more about general lust. To me it was more that, if there was any thought in either of their minds it was more a result of "I want comfort and physical intimacy and you're the only one here for me at the moment."

Basically, I don't think Harry was thinking "I want to kiss Hermione" but simply "I want to kiss." As such, it came across that there weren't any real feelings just the need for intimacy.

I think that pretty much sums up my view.

And what ships do you support

I also don't think it was intended as seduction on either behalf. They were both hurting and maybe it was a "borne out of the moment thing". They both needed comfort and cheering up, and they both just happened to be there. Not anything like "I'm going to dance with Hermione, the girl Ron likes" but more as "I'm going to dance with a friend because she needs cheering up" as lame as that sounds.

And the bolded is another interesting way of looking at it

And yes, I can see how the lack of any equally touching Ron/Hermione scenes can be irritating. I guess all I can say is that Part 2 will hopefully not disappoint in that department.

[free_elf]

Originally Posted by magic_is_might

And what ships do you support

I also don't think it was intended as seduction on either behalf. They were both hurting and maybe it was a "borne out of the moment thing". They both needed comfort and cheering up, and they both just happened to be there. Not anything like "I'm going to dance with Hermione, the girl Ron likes" but more as "I'm going to dance with a friend because she needs cheering up" as lame as that sounds.

And the bolded is another interesting way of looking at it

And yes, I can see how the lack of any equally touching Ron/Hermione scenes can be irritating. I guess all I can say is that Part 2 will hopefully not disappoint in that department.

I'm R/Hr all the way! I think I've seen you mention you lean toward H/Hr?

I completely understand how the lack of R/Hr moments may irritate people. From my perspective I try and see it as kind of fitting canon Ron and Hermione. They never really had big physically intimate moments until the kiss (from what I can remember). Their liking for one another was always in the feuding and unwillingness to get too close to one another. They always seemed to overcompensate in the other direction if you know what I mean? Obviously this does begin to change in DH book and movie though (e.g. hand-holding).

A dance scene in the movie between R/Hr (even though I would've absolutely loved it!) would only have served to add to the relationship plot line. I think the H/Hr dance scene serves a greater purpose, so I can see why Yates and Kloves put it in.

[Yoana]

Originally Posted by magic_is_might

I can see where the issue lies, but I personally didn't sense the sexual or romantic subtext that many got from it.

I didn't see it either. I love that scene because when reading the book I wanted so badly for Harry to show any sign that he cares about Hermione, too, about her being devastated by Ron's departure, but he was merely ignoring her. The height of his indifference was when he couldn't stand her company after she'd just saved his life, because she'd broken his wand (I guess wand trumps life). It felt so unnatural. So this scene in the film smoothed out the whole narrative there - it remedied the book's weakness as far as I'm concerned. I'm grateful for it.

[magic_is_might]

Originally Posted by free_elf

I'm R/Hr all the way! I think I've seen you mention you lean toward H/Hr?

I completely understand how the lack of R/Hr moments may irritate people. From my perspective I try and see it as kind of fitting canon Ron and Hermione. They never really had big physically intimate moments until the kiss (from what I can remember). Their liking for one another was always in the feuding and unwillingness to get too close to one another. They always seemed to overcompensate in the other direction if you know what I mean? Obviously this does begin to change in DH book and movie though (e.g. hand-holding).

A dance scene in the movie between R/Hr (even though I would've absolutely loved it!) would only have served to add to the relationship plot line. I think the H/Hr dance scene serves a greater purpose, so I can see why Yates and Kloves put it in.

When I'm reading the books, or watching the movies, I'm totally canon and completely for R/Hr! For fun, I ship H/Hr And neither the twain shall meet.

So I don't want to be mistaken as a delusional H/Hr shipper who wants to see romance in this scene, because even I don't see the romance. And I mind the line between canon and fanon.

[Erin6]

Originally Posted by free_elf

I'm R/Hr all the way! I think I've seen you mention you lean toward H/Hr?

I completely understand how the lack of R/Hr moments may irritate people. From my perspective I try and see it as kind of fitting canon Ron and Hermione. They never really had big physically intimate moments until the kiss (from what I can remember). Their liking for one another was always in the feuding and unwillingness to get too close to one another. They always seemed to overcompensate in the other direction if you know what I mean? Obviously this does begin to change in DH book and movie though (e.g. hand-holding).

A dance scene in the movie between R/Hr (even though I would've absolutely loved it!) would only have served to add to the relationship plot line. I think the H/Hr dance scene serves a greater purpose, so I can see why Yates and Kloves put it in.

I just don't think the H/Hr dance serves any purpose at all. I just feel like at this point, there needed to be at least one R/Hr scene alone that was somewhat intimate. Leaving the stone scene in would have done that, but it seems a lot of R/Hr scenes got cut.


I mean I get that they will get their moment in part 2, but it's just super frustrating that they couldn't get any moments alone before that.

[magic_is_might]

Originally Posted by Yoana

I didn't see it either. I love that scene because when reading the book I wanted so badly for Harry to show any sign that he cares about Hermione, too, about her being devastated by Ron's departure, but he was merely ignoring her. The height of his indifference was when he couldn't stand her company after she'd just saved his life, because she'd broken his wand (I guess wand trumps life). It felt so unnatural. So this scene in the film smoothed out the whole narrative there - it remedied the book's weakness as far as I'm concerned. I'm grateful for it.

I think that's exactly why I love this scene so much! Yes, it's not canon. But I really did want him to show he cared for Hermione. I thought he was a bit cold toward her in the book, despite everything she did for him. Not saying Harry was a horrible friend, because he's far from it, but he could've been more caring And I think this scene makes up for it. And for this, I'm also grateful this was put in.

But I'll also say I keep book-canon separately from movie-canon in mind, because it's easier to do, and means less disappointment for me when something in the movie isn't exactly like the book. So maybe that's another reason why I'm not bothered by changes like these. I judge them on their own merit, and take them as they are instead of what they should've been.

[free_elf]

Originally Posted by magic_is_might

When I'm reading the books, or watching the movie, I'm totally canon and completely for R/Hr! For fun, I ship H/Hr So I don't want to be mistaken as a delusional H/Hr shipper who want to see romance in this scene, because even I don't.

Oh don't worry I never got the impression you were delusional I've quite enjoyed reading your posts on the matter.


As for the purpose of the H/Hr dance scene, I think Yoana hinted at this, but it served the purpose of showing how the characters care for one another. It would have been rather odd for the casual viewer, I think, if Harry hadn't tried in some way to alleviate the gloom. Also, purely in terms of pacing and mood the scene was an attempt to shift us out of the gloom for a moment, to remind us that there is light and happiness for these characters, and conversely to remind us how dark things actually are. The scene falls between an emotionally draining scene (Ron's leaving) and a very scary and tense one (Godric's Hollow). I think the film makers just didn't want to have us on a low for so long.

Could they have done this another way? Probably. But as I have argued before, I think the intimate undertones served to propel and heighten the contrast and effect of Hermione's "choice," which runs through the Horcrux destruction as well.

[Erin6]

Originally Posted by free_elf

Oh don't worry I never got the impression you were delusional I've quite enjoyed reading your posts on the matter.


As for the purpose of the H/Hr dance scene, I think Yoana hinted at this, but it served the purpose of showing how the characters care for one another. It would have been rather odd for the casual viewer, I think, if Harry hadn't tried in some way to alleviate the gloom. Also, purely in terms of pacing and mood the scene was an attempt to shift us out of the gloom for a moment, to remind us that there is light and happiness for these characters, and conversely to remind us how dark things actually are. The scene falls between an emotionally draining scene (Ron's leaving) and a very scary and tense one (Godric's Hollow). I think the film makers just didn't want to have us on a low for so long.

Could they have done this another way? Probably. But as I have argued before, I think the intimate undertones served to propel and heighten the contrast and effect of Hermione's "choice," which runs through the Horcrux destruction as well.

I totally understand the point you are making regarding the purpose of the dance, and if that was the purpose, then Yates explanation as to why the Stone scene was cut makes zero sense.

Could they have done this another way? Probably. But as I have argued before, I think the intimate undertones served to propel and heighten the contrast and effect of Hermione's "choice," which runs through the Horcrux destruction as well.

I also have zero problems with Hermione in this scene. She walks away. She chooses Ron. I guess I feel this choice she makes would have been more effective if there was an alone scene with Ron and Hermione showing her feelings for him a lot more clearly.

[magic_is_might]

Originally Posted by free_elf

Oh don't worry I never got the impression you were delusional I've quite enjoyed reading your posts on the matter.


As for the purpose of the H/Hr dance scene, I think Yoana hinted at this, but it served the purpose of showing how the characters care for one another. It would have been rather odd for the casual viewer, I think, if Harry hadn't tried in some way to alleviate the gloom. Also, purely in terms of pacing and mood the scene was an attempt to shift us out of the gloom for a moment, to remind us that there is light and happiness for these characters, and conversely to remind us how dark things actually are. The scene falls between an emotionally draining scene (Ron's leaving) and a very scary and tense one (Godric's Hollow). I think the film makers just didn't want to have us on a low for so long.

Which is why I feel the song is very fitting for this scene. It's not romantic in the least. It's about children who are dealing with a lot to take a moment, and have fun. And that fits this scene perfectly.

Because these 2 were doing just that - taking a moment out of their dire and dark situation to have a minute or two and completely forget what was happening around them.

Could they have done this another way? Probably. But as I have argued before, I think the intimate undertones served to propel and heighten the contrast and effect of Hermione's "choice," which runs through the Horcrux destruction as well.

Couldn't have said it better! I've always tried to convey this intelligibly, but came out as a confusing jumble, and I think you said this perfectly

Originally Posted by Erin6

I also have zero problems with Hermione in this scene. She walks away. She chooses Ron. I guess I feel this choice she makes would have been more effective if there was an alone scene with Ron and Hermione showing her feelings for him a lot more clearly.

I completely agree. I would've loved to have this in the movie to balance it, but apparently the tone wouldn't fit At least we'll get this on DVD!

I just wish there could be an uncut edition, so we don't have to watch the deleted scenes separately.

[Erin6]

I wish there was an uncut edition as well. Maybe they will eventually release one.

[magic_is_might]

Originally Posted by Erin6

I wish there was an uncut edition as well. Maybe they will eventually release one.

I see no reason not to I'm hoping for some awesome, extended, uncut Part 1+2 combined ultra DVD/Blu-Ray set It's not like WB wouldn't mind making some money from it But, I won't get my hopes up...

[free_elf]

Originally Posted by Erin6

I totally understand the point you are making regarding the purpose of the dance, and if that was the purpose, then Yates explanation as to why the Stone scene was cut makes zero sense.



I also have zero problems with Hermione in this scene. She walks away. She chooses Ron. I guess I feel this choice she makes would have been more effective if there was an alone scene with Ron and Hermione showing her feelings for him a lot more clearly.

I know exactly where you are coming from. In my ideal world the stone skimming scene would've been in there too. And even a R/Hr dance. For contrast! But alas, I'm left hoping for an extended edition and at the very least the deleted scenes. I'm just going to have to trust that, without having seen the stone skimming scene, Yates had a good reason.

To play the Devil's Advocate (aka Yates at this point), perhaps the humour and lightness of Ron's scene with Hermione undercut the build up to him leaving. There really isn't that much time devoted to building up Ron's desperate state, it's basically just a montage type scene. As such, perhaps a scene showing Ron having a good time while camping might have been counter productive to Ron's leaving?

[Yoana]

Originally Posted by free_elf

Also, purely in terms of pacing and mood the scene was an attempt to shift us out of the gloom for a moment, to remind us that there is light and happiness for these characters, and conversely to remind us how dark things actually are. The scene falls between an emotionally draining scene (Ron's leaving) and a very scary and tense one (Godric's Hollow). I think the film makers just didn't want to have us on a low for so long.

That's a very good point. It as indeed very well positioned.

[Erin6]

Originally Posted by magic_is_might

I see no reason not to I'm hoping for some awesome, extended, uncut Part 1+2 combined ultra DVD/Blu-Ray set It's not like WB wouldn't mind making some money from it But, I won't get my hopes up...

I was actually just about to post this. LOL. I would absolutely buy this. Seeing part 1 and part 2 as one movie would be great.

While we are talking romantic scenes, I complain about a lack of R/Hr scenes, but Ginny and Harry really get shafted in these movies.

To play the Devil's Advocate (aka Yates at this point), perhaps the humour and lightness of Ron's scene with Hermione undercut the build up to him leaving. There really isn't that much time devoted to building up Ron's desperate state, it's basically just a montage type scene. As such, perhaps a scene showing Ron having a good time while camping might have been counter productive to Ron's leaving?

That's probably more likely then just the blanket statement that Yates gave about it not fitting the tone of the movie.

[magic_is_might]

Originally Posted by free_elf

As such, perhaps a scene showing Ron having a good time while camping might have been counter productive to Ron's leaving?

I think that makes sense about what Yates said about fitting in with the tone. And yes, it does make sense then. Not like I didn't want to see it, but I guess it would be counter-productive to the negative feelings Ron was supposed to be building up.