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#21
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Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.4
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![]() I'll diss "forgiveness" with the best of them, but IMO those scream "understanding".
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Proprium humani ingenii est odisse quem laeseris
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#22
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Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.4
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The man who, in my opinion, won the war against Voldemort for Harry Potter and the Light! Severus Snape! There is nothing of which every man is so afraid, as getting to know how enormously much he is capable of doing and becoming - Soren Kierkegaard Spotlight on Snape and Molly
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#23
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Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.4
Don't forget that even if Snape was mainly introverted person, that doesn't mean he had no feelings, only that he hide them. He might have had very strong feelings, and as a human he wanted understanding, after all, he had been involved in Harry's life for so long, and despite he denied it, he came to at least respect Harry, even if it was against his will. So he didn't want to die without anybody knowing what he did.
I think there must have been so many times during that year in which he wanted to shout to the other teachers what he was really doing...
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#24
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Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.4
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![]() Seeing as Dumbledore was out of the picture by that time, there was no one aware on "whose side Snape's on". And with the whole "don't call me coward" thing going, I don't think Severus really relished the thought of being everafter referred to as Snape The Traitor. ![]()
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Proprium humani ingenii est odisse quem laeseris
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#25
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Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.4
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Personally, I think Snape was not sure Harry would live long enough to tell anyone else. So I think it was important to him to tell Harry, specifically, his story in his own way.Also, I think if Snape really cared enough to have given it thought, he would have realized Phineas, Albus, and assorted other portraits knew the truth of the matter. He promised to kill Albus, and schemed to help Harry, in the Headmaster's office.
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The Sorting Hat says I belong in Slytherin. ![]() ![]() “Death is the only pure, beautiful conclusion of a great passion.”-D. H. Lawrence “They do it perfectly in the film, that was a place I-where I was really glad they were faithful to the book, because Snape’s journey is so important, and such a linchpin of the books, and it can’t function without Snape-" -- J. K. Rowling |
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#26
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Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.4
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You mean like this: ![]() No, I guess he didn't. ![]() Quote:
- I can think of a few other characters he was written as being close enough to want "truth out" to.One Minerva McGonagall comes to mind... ![]() As for the portraits - do they not serve the current Headmaster/mistress? And yet... ![]()
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Proprium humani ingenii est odisse quem laeseris
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#27
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Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.4
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But also, It must have been terrible for Severus to wander around the castle with the accusatory looks and words of the rest of the staff, specially the heads of house, and specially McGonagall, he might have wanted to tell them he couldn't stand the Carrows either, but had to in order to win the war. I would have liked to see a scene in the staff room with all of them!
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#28
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Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.4
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There's not much point in letting someone know "This is what you have to do" without a foundation of "This is why it has to be this way, and why it has to be you that does it." If Severus had given Harry only the memories of himself and Albus discussing the plan and the necessary sacrifice, I don't think Severus would have been able to count on Harry to go through with it.
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"You don't ever have to feel guilty about removing toxic people from your life. It doesn't matter whether someone is a relative, romantic interest, employer, childhood friend, or a new acquaintance--You don't have to make room for people who cause you pain or make you feel small. It's one thing if a person owns up to their behavior and makes an effort to change. But if a person disregards your feelings, ignores your boundaries, and *continues* to treat you in a harmful way, they need to go." ~Danielle Koepke~ ~~~
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#29
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Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.4
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While I agree he valued Minerva's good opinion, I am not sure he would have shared his memories about Lily, Tuney, and the Marauders with her. Quote:
I still don't understand. Harry knows why it has to be him, it is he that has the soul bit in him (the scar, the connection - he knows he has that, and Snape knows that Harry knows, the two of them have discussed the connection in the past, though neither knew its exact nature at that point). Harry knows why that is - Voldemort tried and failed to kill him. What do Snape's childhood memories have to do with this? Why would Snape think seeing them would cause Harry to act on the information about the soul bit?
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The Sorting Hat says I belong in Slytherin. ![]() ![]() “Death is the only pure, beautiful conclusion of a great passion.”-D. H. Lawrence “They do it perfectly in the film, that was a place I-where I was really glad they were faithful to the book, because Snape’s journey is so important, and such a linchpin of the books, and it can’t function without Snape-" -- J. K. Rowling |
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#30
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Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.4
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In that sense, yes, Severus needed a ground. However, he extended himself very much in Lily-Snape frienship, and that was not absolutely necessary, he could have done it just with the hill memory, that, part, the Severus-Lily part, I think was intended for Harry to understand him and know of his love for Lily, Snape was dying, if he had no soft moment then, come on! he wouldn't be human!
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#31
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Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.4
If you mean, Snape needed to establish his bona fides with Harry, so Harry could trust the memory was real, that Albus and Severus really had this conversation and Snape is not trying to trick Harry - yes, I agree, Snape would need to show more than just that memory itself. But I also agree he would have no need to show any of the early memories, nor the late one of himself crying over Lily's letter and photograph.
Personally, I do not think that Snape's decision to inform Harry of this ancient historyand its continuing relevance to Snape was taken as he lay dying. In the final memory, Snape tells Dumbledore not to worry -"I have a plan." That plan, we know, included using his Patronus, which represents his love for Lily, to guide Harry to the Sword of Gryffindor. I think, when he decided to reveal that, he had decided he'd reveal the rest when the time came. I also do notbelieve it was to encourage Harry to act on the information. I think he believed Harry would if he believed the accuracy of it, but I think Snape was far from advocating for that. By including the portion of the memory in which he expresses his anger at Dumbledore, as well as the backstory which explains why, he is explaining that he, anyway, never wanted Harry to die.
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The Sorting Hat says I belong in Slytherin. ![]() ![]() “Death is the only pure, beautiful conclusion of a great passion.”-D. H. Lawrence “They do it perfectly in the film, that was a place I-where I was really glad they were faithful to the book, because Snape’s journey is so important, and such a linchpin of the books, and it can’t function without Snape-" -- J. K. Rowling |
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#32
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Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.4
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So that, then, speaks of a need for understanding, and some respect for "the boy".
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#33
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Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.4
The reason I think Snape meant to let Harry know, eventually, that it was he who gave him the sword, is that this is a 100% foolproof way for Harry to know it was Snape that helped him. Only three people in the world know that Harry was led to the Sword by a Doe patronus - Harry, Ron, and the wizard or witch who sent the doe.
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The Sorting Hat says I belong in Slytherin. ![]() ![]() “Death is the only pure, beautiful conclusion of a great passion.”-D. H. Lawrence “They do it perfectly in the film, that was a place I-where I was really glad they were faithful to the book, because Snape’s journey is so important, and such a linchpin of the books, and it can’t function without Snape-" -- J. K. Rowling |
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#34
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Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.4
Harry knew he was the "Chosen One." He knew that the Prophecy said "And either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives ..." So, he knew he had to die in order to kill Voldemort. He just didn't know when and how.
I believe that just the Memories showing Severus and Dumbledore discussing this and what Harry had to do would have been more than sufficient for Harry to trust them. However, I strongly believe that Severus gave Harry many, many more Memories than he needed to just in order to gain his trust. There were too many that were totally unnecessary and had absolutely nothing to do with anything that involved Harry directly. As I interpreted the Memories, they were things he needed Harry to see in order to understand him (Severus), and, as such, were the only way he had of communicating his remorse for any part he had in Lily's death and also the way he'd treated Harry because he looked like James. I think, as he watched Harry grow to be his own person that Severus was able to see him separate from his parents and grew to respect, if not to care, for him. The memory that makes me think this more than anything is the one where he is told Harry has to die...when he refers to Harry as "the boy," and not "Potter." I've wondered as I've re-read the books and taken time to reflect on the story... not rushed through them to see what happened, as I did for the first reading...if, after a while, his protecting Harry didn't become less a job and more an act of caring -- which he finally admitted to himself as he was dying and that's why he wanted Harry to see what went into making Severus Snape who he was, how he'd loved truly and deeply, what his shortcomings and wrongs were and the remorse he felt for them, and in that way to gain Harry's understanding and forgiveness, even though it was posthumusly. I doubt, without having seen all of the Memories, Harry would have named his second son Albus Severus Potter.
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I held you in my arms, although I knew that death
Had already taken you. I held you close, hoping for a faint heartbeat or breath To prove me wrong. But, you were still, and could not hear or see My grief, my tears, my heartbreak knowing that the rest of my life would be Spent without you. |
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#35
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Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.4
I had an idea for questions to discuss.
![]() We spend a lot of time talking about what we think of Snape, and what Snape thinks of other people. I thought it could be interesting to consider what he thinks about himself, to the extent that we can figure this out from things he says and does in the books, and to see whether that sheds any light on his actions for us. Some areas about which Snape presumably has opinions... -His talents/abilities/accomplishments. Does Snape believe he has any talents? What is his own opinion of his accomplishments? How does he feel about these things? -Beliefs - What are his beliefs? Have they changed over time, if so, why and when do we think they changed? Are they now, or have they been in the past, important to him? -Backstory- Snape has a lot of it. What does Snape think/feel about the decisions he has made? Has this changed? Is it important to him emotionally, and does it influence the decisions we see him make in the series? -His physical appearance. Does he like it? How does he feel others react to it? Is it important to him, and do his opinions about it affect his actions in the series? Is this something that has changed in the course of his life?
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The Sorting Hat says I belong in Slytherin. ![]() ![]() “Death is the only pure, beautiful conclusion of a great passion.”-D. H. Lawrence “They do it perfectly in the film, that was a place I-where I was really glad they were faithful to the book, because Snape’s journey is so important, and such a linchpin of the books, and it can’t function without Snape-" -- J. K. Rowling |
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#36
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Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.4
Great questions, arithmancer!
Does Snape believe he has any talents? What is his own opinion of his accomplishments? How does he feel about these things? Absolutely. He doesn't believe, he knows. He knows he's brilliant, he knows he's extremely powerful, he knows his Occlumency is at least equal to Voldemort's Legilimency, and of course he knows he is the literal Master of Potions. These are things I believe he knows with every fiber of his being. But I don't think he's proud of them; I think rather he is aware he has these talents inborn, they provided him the raw material to achieve what he has achieved, and he accepts them as part of himself. In my opinion he defines Severus Snape by these traits, rather than saying "I'm Severus Snape, plus I'm brilliant etc. etc." What are his beliefs? Have they changed over time, if so, why and when do we think they changed? Are they now, or have they been in the past, important to him? I think his beliefs (not religious, I don't really think he has any of those, he's probably seen too much to believe in a supreme being) can be put into three time segments -- childhood, DE, post-DE. In childhood I think he had a feeling that being a wizard/witch was better than being a Muggle; as a Hogwarts student and as a DE he bought into the party line that Muggles and Muggleborns were inferior to magical folk; then when he broke with the DE's he modified his thinking and realized all people are equal, magical or not. I think in the past, up until he broke with the DE's, his beliefs weren't that important -- most of them were IMO adopted in order to fit in, first at home, then in Slytherin house, then as a DE. It wasn't until he discovered that LV was targetting Lily that he discovered you can't just pay lip service to a dangerous belief -- you have to either be for it or actively against it. Because of his fight against LV, I think his beliefs now are very important to him. What does Snape think/feel about the decisions he has made? Has this changed? Is it important to him emotionally, and does it influence the decisions we see him make in the series? I believe he regrets every decision he made from the time he lost Lily's regard up to her murder. His decisions during that time span set his feet on the path that led to Lily's murder, so I think he hates them. I also think he believes he has made decisions afterwards that have not been the best, and I think they fester in his mind, and affect his decisions on occasion in the series. Sometimes this makes for a good decision; sometimes it makes for a poor decision. His physical appearance. Does he like it? How does he feel others react to it? Is it important to him, and do his opinions about it affect his actions in the series? Is this something that has changed in the course of his life? I think, since he lives such a life of the mind, that he just doesn't care about his looks. He knows he's not the most handsome man in the world (or so he's been told), and he probably has learned to hide any reaction to other people's comments or reactions. I believe he's learned to use his appearance and manner of clothing to intimidate others, both students and adults. When he was a youngster, I think he was much more sensitive to his looks, but as he grew older he learned to enjoy the solitude his looks gave him. When he found out he could "billow" and "prowl" with the fluidity his robes gave him, I believe he used that to his advantage, to foster his cold, unapproachable, unfriendly external affect. As he got older, he got better at it.
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#37
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Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.4
Great questions arithmancer.
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I think he was a live and let live type; a free thinker of sorts; because of his creativity which I believe came from exploring for new things/ideas/thoughts and everything. I think he liked new ideas, but conversely i think he was pretty conservative too in those areas where he was comfortable, like loyalty, honesty and acceptance of another's choices/beliefs/opinions (even if he would very strongly disagree with them). So, he was both conservative in certain areas and very forward in certain others imo. I am not sure if the basics really changed over time, I don't think they did; I think Snape when he died was pretty much the same person from before he joined the DEs. Joining the DEs imo was an aberration of sorts for which he paid dearly, and so I believe, when he turned away from Voldemort, if anything it must have made him more cautious to watch where he was going, so that the type of mistake he made by joining the DEs would forever be avoided. I think Snape succeeded in doing that. Quote:
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About the DEs; I think that choice would always make him cringe, haunt him for the rest of his life. i don't think he would ever feel that anything he did would make that decision right or wash away the time he was a DE. Apart from this, I don't think Snape regretted anything much; I don't think he was the guy to keep looking and living in the past (shocking I know ), but having said that, I also think Snape's past influenced his present and made him vulnerable in some way; maybe certain choices would/would not be taken because of the past imo.Quote:
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__________________
The man who, in my opinion, won the war against Voldemort for Harry Potter and the Light! Severus Snape! There is nothing of which every man is so afraid, as getting to know how enormously much he is capable of doing and becoming - Soren Kierkegaard Spotlight on Snape and Molly
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#38
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Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.4
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However, the fact that he survived being close to Voldemort for such a long time, suggests to me that he also knew his own limitations. As he said to Harry during Occlumency lessons when Harry mentioned the name of Voldemort; "Dumbledore is an extremely powerful wizard," Snape muttered. "While he may feel secure enough to use the name…the rest of us…"
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#39
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Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.4
Very good, arithmancer. Let's delve a little deeper into Severus and see....
-His talents/abilities/accomplishments. Does Snape believe he has any talents? What is his own opinion of his accomplishments? How does he feel about these things? I think he worked very hard to develop his talents, and was aware of his accomplishments in Potions, Occlumency, Legilimency, spells, etc. I like the scene when he and Lily are talking about going to Hogwarts and he seems so full of enthusiasm and anticipation. I think he knew he had talent, and was anxious to use it. He was probably a bit like Hermione, being a bookworm, but, he made sure that he not only had the "book knowledge," but the "practical knowledge" as well. I think he was proud of his accomplishments, but, I don't think he would have shown it outwardly that much. While, like everyone, I'm sure he didn't mind his accomplishments being noted, I think it was more important to him that he knew he'd mastered something. -Beliefs - What are his beliefs? Have they changed over time, if so, why and when do we think they changed? Are they now, or have they been in the past, important to him? In his early childhood I think he believed he, as a wizard, was superior to Muggles, but, we see he was able to put that aside for Lily, so I don't think it was that deeply ingrained. I think his adversity toward Muggles was mainly because of his father and people like Petunia, who were so quick to criticize and taunt him. Once he got to school, not having been given a strong basis to build on, I think he was open and vulnerable to the "blood supremacy" beliefs that seemed predominant in Slytherin. This, IMO, is how he got integrated in with the DE wanna-be's. I don't feel that Lily had that much influence, as far as his like/dislike for Muggles, because I don't think he ever saw her as a Muggleborn. He didn't care about her background because he loved her. Once the friendship was broken, I think he became bitter and was easily influenced by the Averys and Mulcibers that surrounded him and wanted to rid himself of Muggle and Mudblood contacts. That doesn't mean I think he ever wanted to go as far as Voldemort, killing and enslaving them. I think he just wanted to be away from them. IMO, once he was an actual DE and saw what was really happening, he just wanted to survive. -Backstory- Snape has a lot of it. What does Snape think/feel about the decisions he has made? Has this changed? Is it important to him emotionally, and does it influence the decisions we see him make in the series? When he was younger, I think he was just living day-to-day, like most young people. Not a lot of thought about the future, except to go to Hogwarts with his best friend and hone his magic skills. When he got to school, one of the major decisions that would have an effect on his life was made for him: the House he was sorted into. Many of the decisions that he made after that were, IMO, influenced by that and the people he was surrounded by (this is not excusing/condoning, just analyzing -- the final responsibility for actions was still his). I feel that, as an adult looking back, he regretted many of the decisions he made based on that influence, starting with bandying the word "Mudblood" around (this is speculation, but, considering the references to how it was used by many Slytherins to demean Muggleborns, I think there is a good chance it was frequently used among them) so that it slipped out when he really hadn't meant to say it. Of course he regretted becoming a DE and having anything to do with being any part of Lily's death. I don't think he ever forgave himself for that, even though he went all out to make retribution. I think, toward the end, he also regretted treating Harry like he did because he looked like James. I feel that most of his actions from the time he met with Dumbledore the first time were based on his regret of many of his decisions and that the better part of his adult life was driven by trying to make amends for the things he had done. -His physical appearance. Does he like it? How does he feel others react to it? Is it important to him, and do his opinions about it affect his actions in the series? Is this something that has changed in the course of his life? As far as looks, as was mentioned before, he knew he wasn't good looking. I agree that this and his manner of dress caused him a lot of problems as a child. But, I feel there was a time when he quit caring about that. I don't know exactly when that was. Maybe when Lily accepted him as a friend. Maybe after their friendship broke off. I think he got to a point where his looks helped him to isolate himself from others. It seems that he used them to maintain distance from people. I think the black billowing robes helped him to set up that "bat like" appearance that we read about several times, and he used that as a means of intimidation. It seemed to work well in the classroom and, I'm wondering if it didn't give him some of the same advantage as a DE. I'm not sure that his looks, other than the possible taunting as a child, meant that much to him. He was more "internal" and I don't think looks, clothing, possessions, and such meant much to him. It was more, "what can you do?" rather than "how good looking are you?".
__________________
I held you in my arms, although I knew that death
Had already taken you. I held you close, hoping for a faint heartbeat or breath To prove me wrong. But, you were still, and could not hear or see My grief, my tears, my heartbreak knowing that the rest of my life would be Spent without you. |
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#40
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Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.4
Does Snape believe he has any talents? What is his own opinion of his accomplishments? How does he feel about these things?
I believe he knows he has talent in potions. Even though he wants the DADA position, I think he enjoys being the Potions Master and doesn't want to give it up to Slughorn. I think we learn that Lily is really good at potions, too, and this may spur him on to loving the subject even more. What are his beliefs? Have they changed over time, if so, why and when do we think they changed? Are they now, or have they been in the past, important to him? When he was younger I think he did believe that anyone not pureblood was bad. Lily was the exception. I don't think he liked being halfblood. He wished he was pureblood and had nothing to do with anything Muggle. Have they changed? I'm not sure. I still think he wishes he was pureblood and had nothing in common with Muggles. Does he think being pureblood is the best thing in the world? Probably not. Snape has a lot of it. What does Snape think/feel about the decisions he has made? Has this changed? Is it important to him emotionally, and does it influence the decisions we see him make in the series? He knows he's made mistakes and he regrets what he's done. If he'd never joined the Death Eaters and spied on Trelawney to get part of the prophecy Lily might still be alive. He probably regrets every day of his life. I think it influences almost every decision he makes. It affects every part of his life. Does he like it? How does he feel others react to it? Is it important to him, and do his opinions about it affect his actions in the series? Is this something that has changed in the course of his life? I don't think his physical appearance is that important him and I think that's because he doesn't like the way he looks. He's learned to not to care because he knows he can't permanently change things. I think if he had been this handsome beautiful wizard he might have been able to get more friends, shallow ones yes. If he had these friends he might have not latched onto Lily so hard and he might not have joined the Death Eaters.
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