Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.4

[The_Green_Woods]

Originally Posted by MsJPotter

I don't know how culpablility is measured, but for me if someone ends up dead because you started a ball rolling down a hill, it don't matter that someone else gave it an extra kick or two, you're culpable. Snape was pretty smart, he knew it as well as anybody else.

I see it like this. I think Snape did set the ball rolling knowing that someone would die because of it and in that I think he was very much responsible; but when he knew who that someone would be, he made sure that those people would be protected and not be hurt by the ball. In doing so, I think his responsibility towards Lily and James's death lifted, but his responsibility in starting an action that would get a baby killed was very much alive.

Then another man, Peter, came and removed the protections that would have ensured the Potters complete safety from the huge rolling stone and by doing so, killed them.

At this point was it Snape or Peter who was responsible got Lily's death? I think it was Peter (and Voldemort of course).

Can a man be held responsible for a wrong action even after he has taken steps to ensure that his wrong action does not harm anyone? If someone is harmed despite it, because of other persons, then whom should we blame?

I also believe that Snape never thought for a second he was not responsible for Lily's death or for James's death for that matter. I think he thought he was culpable and he felt deep remorse for for an action that he felt was irresponsible and wrong.

Originally Posted by snapes_witch

Now, I admit to never being in the highlands of Scotland, but that doesn't sound like August to me. I believe the consensus opinion is more like late autumn 1980.

Even if it was late autumn it was almost a whole year before the Potters were killed, which was what I meant, when I said Snape came well in time to save them.

Originally Posted by MinervasCat

Why did he not make Harry go and get the "Prince's" book? Why do you think he let Harry get away with not turning the book over to him?

Snape applied Legilimency and saw that Harry had wanted to protect the Book and I think he was privately tickled pink that Harry not only wanted his Book, but did not want to return it to him, thought the Book important to enough to hide it, to keep it. I think it's possible that he also made the connection between Slughorn's statement about Harry's potion brilliance and his old Book and may have been pretty much amused/happy/and in some weird way proud about it. So, I think he let Harry have it.

[snapes_witch]

Originally Posted by The_Green_Woods;

Even if it was late autumn it was almost a whole year before the Potters were killed, which was what I meant, when I said Snape came well in time to save them.

I knew you meant that; my intention was to correct the Lexicon again, not you. Sorry it came out otherwise.

[ccollinsmith]

This is my first chance to thank Morgoth for the manner in which he closed the "Snape ate my hamster" thread, so...

π anyone?

The difficulty with determining culpability is that the discussion relies on individuals' conceptions of morality. In my (rather ancient) cultural tradition, redemption is seen as possible after a fall, and the person who works to mitigate potential damage even before the damage is done is regarded as considerably less culpable than the person who actively works to ensure that the damage be done.

In that context, I believe - strongly - that Snape gets partial, not complete, responsibility. He was already working to extricate himself from the evil he had been enmeshed in and was working hard to ensure that the damage would not be done. That it was done despite his efforts is the work of people other than himself.

So, here's a new question... We know that Snape did not enjoy teaching Gryffindors, but we never see him in the classroom with Ravenclaws or Hufflepuffs. Based on what we know of Snape's interests, abilities, and pet peeves, might a Potions class with brainiac Ravenclaws and diligent Hufflepuffs have gone more smoothly? Or would Snape have been as frustrated in double-potions with these other houses as he was with teaching Gryffindor?

[MinervasCat]

I gues part of my question about the textbook is, why a teacher, who has been so strict on Harry and given him point deductions for much less serious things than almost killing someone, would allow him to blatantly lie to him? He knew Harry presented him with a fake book, yet he did not insist that Harry go and get the actual book. I also would think Severus would want the book back in safe keeping where it wouldn't fall into anyone else's hands.

Did he feel Harry might gain from the contents of the book? We see he did learn several useful spells, and, the learned about the bezoar, or at least was reminded about it from the HBP book. Or, could it be Severus was actually a bit pleased that Harry wanted to keep the book? Did he get a bit of a chuckle, knowing how Harry hated him but must have admired the HBP enough to lie to keep his book?

[ignisia]

I agree with those who say Snape was partially responsible. He set the events in motion, but IMO, he did everything he possibly could to prevent them. I definitely think that counts. What Wormtail and Voldemort did, they did protractedly, without remorse, and outside of Snape's control.

Originally Posted by arithmancer

-His talents/abilities/accomplishments. Does Snape believe he has any talents? What is his own opinion of his accomplishments? How does he feel about these things?

I think he has a fairly healthy understanding of his magical skill. I don't recall any particular time when he sells his talents short or exaggerates them beyond what they are. I think he also has a fairly good understanding of his limitations as well, as TT points out.

Originally Posted by arithmancer

-Beliefs - What are his beliefs? Have they changed over time, if so, why and when do we think they changed? Are they now, or have they been in the past, important to him?

Have they changed? Oh, yes, indeedy!
I think his general moral beliefs underwent quite a transformation over the years, especially in the years following Lily's death. I believe he went from a purely self-centered viewpoint to one that incorporates all people and their right to live. I don't believe he ever really stopped changing throughout his life, whether it was for worse (between the ages of ~9 and ~21) or for better (~21>).

Originally Posted by arithmancer

-Backstory- Snape has a lot of it. What does Snape think/feel about the decisions he has made? Has this changed? Is it important to him emotionally, and does it influence the decisions we see him make in the series?

I think he feels incredible guilt and self-loathing for his decisions as a young man, and I don't believe he cuts himself any slack in that regard. I consider this guilt (along with his love, determination, the aforementioned beliefs, etc.) part of what drives him to make amends.

Originally Posted by arithmancer

-His physical appearance. Does he like it? How does he feel others react to it? Is it important to him, and do his opinions about it affect his actions in the series? Is this something that has changed in the course of his life?

I don't think he cares for it much as an adult. He has other concerns on his mind, and I don't think he considers himself so hideous or so beautiful that he absolutely must focus on his appearance.
As a teen, I think it did matter to him to an extent. He did have feelings for Lily at that point, and James and Sirius apparently thought mocking his appearance would get enough of a rise out of him to attempt it.

Originally Posted by ccollinsmith

So, here's a new question... We know that Snape did not enjoy teaching Gryffindors, but we never see him in the classroom with Ravenclaws or Hufflepuffs. Based on what we know of Snape's interests, abilities, and pet peeves, might a Potions class with brainiac Ravenclaws and diligent Hufflepuffs have gone more smoothly? Or would Snape have been as frustrated in double-potions with these other houses as he was with teaching Gryffindor?

I think it may depend on which House is paired with which. If the Gryffindors and Slytherins of Harry's year have Potions together, I'd think the Ravenclaws and Hufflepuffs of the same year would be the other class. I think in that case, Snape would be slightly less caustic, as half the class would be actually interested in what he is teaching. That's not to say there wouldn't be some duds, and there wouldn't be any drama, but I think the remaining two Houses don't hold much particular interest to the Professor beyond individual achievements/failures.

But do the pairings ever change in other years? Are Slytherins ever paired with Hufflepuffs or Ravenclaws, pre-NEWT? What about a Gryffindor-Ravenclaw class? I think the dynamics would be very different depending on who is being taught.

Originally Posted by MinervasCat

I gues part of my question about the textbook is, why a teacher, who has been so strict on Harry and given him point deductions for much less serious things than almost killing someone, would allow him to blatantly lie to him?

Well, I think lying is, in part, what Snape was punishing Harry for. As for him not choosing to take the actual book, I think he knew Harry would just keep denying its existence, and he thought this encounter would warn Harry against using the book to cheat again.

[silver ink pot]

Originally Posted by Ignisia

But do the pairings ever change in other years? Are Slytherins ever paired with Hufflepuffs or Ravenclaws, pre-NEWT? What about a Gryffindor-Ravenclaw class? I think the dynamics would be very different depending on who is being taught.

That's a really good question, and I wonder if Snape decided to put the two houses together on purpose so he would be sure that Draco and Harry had classes together? That way Draco would know exactly what he said to Harry in class which he could report back to Mom and Dad.

[MsJPotter]

=The_Green_Woods;5697431]I see it like this. I think Snape did set the ball rolling knowing that someone would die because of it and in that I think he was very much responsible; but when he knew who that someone would be, he made sure that those people would be protected and not be hurt by the ball. In doing so, I think his responsibility towards Lily and James's death lifted, but his responsibility in starting an action that would get a baby killed was very much alive.

Then another man, Peter, came and removed the protections that would have ensured the Potters complete safety from the huge rolling stone and by doing so, killed them.

At this point was it Snape or Peter who was responsible got Lily's death? I think it was Peter (and Voldemort of course).

Can a man be held responsible for a wrong action even after he has taken steps to ensure that his wrong action does not harm anyone? If someone is harmed despite it, because of other persons, then whom should we blame?

[staff edit] I wrote about smashed bottles and how impossible it is to get water back in. Even if you glue the darn thing together, it kind of leaks through the cracks.

I also believe that Snape never thought for a second he was not responsible for Lily's death or for James's death for that matter. I think he thought he was culpable and he felt deep remorse for for an action that he felt was irresponsible and wrong.

[staff edit] I think the reason Snape felt responsible was for the plain and simple reason, he was. Split hairs, assign blame to someone else, say he couldn't know that those 2 particular people were going to be the ones Voldemort would go after. Voldemort was going to go after someone, Snape knew it and as far as I can see he didn't care a whit who was going to die. He cared that Lily was going to die. e kind of curled up with shame when Dumbledore called him on it. That shame speaks more of his inentions that all the split hairs on my head or assigning of blame to the tow others murderers in the little play on who was responsible. That's why this type of ting is called a conspiracy. Because more than one

person was in on it.

I didn't read any dates in that passage. [staff edit]

Snape applied Legitimacy and saw that Harry had wanted to protect the Book and I think he was privately tickled pink that Harry not only wanted his Book, but did not want to return it to him, thought the Book important to enough to hide it, to keep it. I think it's possible that he also made the connection between Slughorn's statement about Harry's potion brilliance and his old Book and may have been pretty much amused/happy/and in some weird way proud about it. So, I think he let Harry have it.

You know I never read anything about Snape using Legilimency and then drawing these conclusions, aren't they in the books. [staff edit]

I find you're argument though about Snape not being responsible for what happened after he delivered the message to Voldemort kind of interesting. It kind of touches on something else I thought of. Snape delivers 2 messages in the books. He delivers one to Voldemort and one to Harry. Now if he's not responsible for what happens after Voldemort gets the first message, then he ain't responsible for what happens after he delivers the message to Harry. Harry and Voldemort make up their own minds and Snape has nothing to do with either the two of them. This makes his actions kind of interesting, don't you think. He just delivers his messages and the consequences are not his concern. Somehow, that don't seem right. Seems to me that the consequences were of some concern to Snape. He knew every time there would be consequences and his part as messenger didn't end with his mouthing out the words. This is my opinion.

[The_Green_Woods]

Originally Posted by MinervasCat

I gues part of my question about the textbook is, why a teacher, who has been so strict on Harry and given him point deductions for much less serious things than almost killing someone, would allow him to blatantly lie to him? He knew Harry presented him with a fake book, yet he did not insist that Harry go and get the actual book. I also would think Severus would want the book back in safe keeping where it wouldn't fall into anyone else's hands.

Did he feel Harry might gain from the contents of the book? We see he did learn several useful spells, and, the learned about the bezoar, or at least was reminded about it from the HBP book. Or, could it be Severus was actually a bit pleased that Harry wanted to keep the book? Did he get a bit of a chuckle, knowing how Harry hated him but must have admired the HBP enough to lie to keep his book?

I think this is another instance where Snape allowed Harry to do as he pleased, when he could allow that. I think he was pleased Harry valued the Book and I think he liked the fact Harry thought that the Book was important enough to him that he needed to hide it. I think Snape did feel that Harry would learn from it, some useful spells and maybe some fun spells too. I think Snape was amused that Harry who so obviously hated him, liked his Book and I like to think Snape was proud too that Harry thought his book valuable. Snape's creativity, his inventions were appreciated and I think that pleased Snape on some level, which was why he allowed Harry to retain that Book.

Also I think that Book did not contain dark magic or terrible/horrible spells, because if they did, I think Snape would not have left it in the School cupboard in the first place. so, I think that shows that Snape's creations/inventions were all above board.

Originally Posted by MsJPotter

[staff edit] I wrote about smashed bottles and how impossible it is to get water back in. Even if you glue the darn thing together, it kind of leaks through the cracks.

I think the example does not hold for me because the Potters were alive when Snape came to Dumbledore and there were means to protect them, to keep them safe from Voldemort for as long as it took. They went under the Fidelus charm and I think if they had not been betrayed by Peter, they would have lived and maybe even survived the second war, unless of course they died of natural causes/the war (assuming they decided to fight in the Order again).

But they did not survive; they died. I feel they did not die because of Snape but because Peter betrayed them. I don't hold Snape responsible for what Peter did or for what Voldemort did. Even as he came to Dumbledore, I think Snape was still culpable for taking a Prophecy knowing Voldemort would use it in a harmful manner and kill a child.

I think Snape would fully be responsible for James and Lily's deaths had he not come to Dumbledore and warned him in time. Then had the Potters died even when they were in hiding, Snape imo would have been fully responsible for their deaths. But when Snape came to Dumbledore and warned him, and later the Potters died because Peter betrayed their hiding place, I don't think Snape is responsible or culpable for that betrayal or murder.

[staff edit]

I didn't read any dates in that passage.

Do you mean in canon? I agree there are no dates; I was answering another poster; but I feel what ever the date I am quite sure Snape came well in time to warn Dumbledore. By well in time I mean he came when the Potters were alive. That is canon as I understand in the Prince's Tale.

You know I never read anything about Snape using Legilimency and then drawing these conclusions, aren't they in the books. [staff edit]

HBP - Sectumsempra "Liar," said Snape. Harry's throat went dry. He knew what Snape was going to do and he had never been able to prevent it... The bathroom seemed to shimmer before his eyes; he struggled to block out all thought, but try as he might, the Half-Blood Prince's copy of Advanced Potion-Making swam hazily to the forefront of his mind. And then he was staring at Snape again, in the midst of this wrecked, soaked bathroom. He stared into Snape's black eyes, hoping against hope that Snape had not seen what he feared, but -- "Bring me your schoolbag," said Snape softly, "and all of your schoolbooks. All of them. Bring them to me here. Now!" There was not point arguing. Harry turned at once and splashed out of the bathroom. Once in the corridor, he broke into a run toward Gryffindor Tower. Most people were walking the other way; they gaped at him, drenched in water and blood, but he answered none of the questions fired at him as he ran past. He felt stunned; it was as though a beloved pet had turned suddenly savage; what had the Prince been thinking to copy such a spell into his book? And what would happen when Snape saw it? Would he tell Slughorn -- Harry's stomach churned -- how Harry had been achieving such good results in Potions all year? Would he confiscate or destroy the book that had taught Harry so much...the book that had become a kind of guide and friend? Harry could not let it happen...he could not... Harry ran flat-out toward the bathroom on the floor below, cramming Ron's copy of Advanced Potion-Making into his bag as he did so. A minute later, he was back in front of Snape, who held out his hand wordlessly for Harry's schoolbag. Harry handed it over, panting, a searing pain in his chest, and waited. One by one, Snape extracted Harry's books and examined them. Finally, the only book left was the Potions book, which he looked at very carefully before speaking. "This is your copy of Advanced Potion-Making, is it, Potter?" "Yes," said Harry, still breathing hard. "You're quite sure of that, are you, Potter?" "Yes," said Harry, with a touch more defiance. "This is the copy of Advanced Potion-Making that you purchased from Flourish and Blotts?" "Yes," said Harry firmly. "Then why," asked Snape, "does it have the name 'Roonil Waslib' written inside the front cover?" Harry's heart missed a beat. "That's my nickname," he said. "Your nickname, repeated Snape. "Yeah...that's what my friends call me," said Harry. "I understand what a nickname is," said Snape. The cold, black eyes were boring once more into Harry's; he tried not to look into them. Close your mind...Close your mind...But he had never learned how to do it properly... Do you know what I think, Potter?" said Snape, very quietly. "I think that you are a liar and a cheat and that you deserve detention with me every Saturday until the end of term. What do you think Potter?"

Originally Posted by ccollinsmith

Based on what we know of Snape's interests, abilities, and pet peeves, might a Potions class with brainiac Ravenclaws and diligent Hufflepuffs have gone more smoothly? Or would Snape have been as frustrated in double-potions with these other houses as he was with teaching Gryffindor?

I think Snape was the same to everyone; if they were clumsy I think they suffered his sarcasm or anger depending upon how careless they've been. I don't think he was different to other sets of students.

Originally Posted by ignisia

But do the pairings ever change in other years? Are Slytherins ever paired with Hufflepuffs or Ravenclaws, pre-NEWT? What about a Gryffindor-Ravenclaw class? I think the dynamics would be very different depending on who is being taught.

I don't think they do. Harry's set always has classes with Slytherins until sixth year when all the four Houses study together (IIRC).

[SadiraSnape]

Originally Posted by The_Green_Woods

Harry's set always has classes with Slytherins until sixth year when all the four Houses study together (IIRC).

They have double Herbology with the Hufflepuffs throughout. Remember, in CoS Ernie MacMillan apologizes to Harry when he's throwing out some pruned Shrivelfig branches...

[The_Green_Woods]

Originally Posted by SadiraSnape

They have double Herbology with the Hufflepuffs throughout. Remember, in CoS Ernie MacMillan apologizes to Harry when he's throwing out some pruned Shrivelfig branches...

I didn't remember , but you are right; Harry meets Justin Finch-Fletchley who is in Hufflepuff. (Gilderoy Lockhart chapter in CoS)

[snapes_witch]

Originally Posted by silver ink pot

That's a really good question, and I wonder if Snape decided to put the two houses together on purpose so he would be sure that Draco and Harry had classes together? That way Draco would know exactly what he said to Harry in class which he could report back to Mom and Dad.

I wonder who actually decided on the pairings? Wouldn't it have been the Headmaster and his deputy? That seems more likely to me than the individual teachers.

[SadiraSnape]

Originally Posted by snapes_witch

I wonder who actually decided on the pairings? Wouldn't it have been the Headmaster and his deputy? That seems more likely to me than the individual teachers.

I would think so. If we consider that there are 10 new students in each house each year, that would mean there are 40 students per year per house, or 7 x 40 = 280 students in each house. 280 x 4 = 1120 students in the entire Hogwarts student body.

With only, what, 13 or 14? teachers on staff, 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, I can see that there would have to be doubled classes in order to get everyone educated.

[Mathematical and logistics interlude over... back to Snape]

I would think Severus was content to let DD and/or Minerva figure out the class pairings, when necessary. I think it was just the luck of the draw that Gryffindor and Slytherin were in double Potions (although of course it was a literary convention employed by JKR in order to maximize the drama of having two people Harry hated -- Snape and Draco -- in the same room as Harry at the same time).

[Chrysalis]

I wonder if Snape would've been a bit 'better' in a 'Puff/Ravenclaw class. Then again, there might be dunderheads in that class as well. From what I can gather from the books, I think he would've appreciated clever students with an abiding interest in his subject. I think the reason he disliked Hermione was, no particular order, that she was Harry's best friend, a Gryffindor, and rather eager to prove herself.

I've always thought it would've been hilarious to see a Snape/Luna Lovegood interaction. The closest we came to that was the Christmas party in HBP.

Does anybody else wonder whether Snape was actually so keen on the DADA job?

[MsJPotter]

[quote]

Originally Posted by The_Green_Woods

Also I think that Book did not contain dark magic or terrible/horrible spells, because if they did, I think Snape would not have left it in the School cupboard in the first place. so, I think that shows that Snape's creations/inventions were all above board.

Sorry to disagree with you but if Snape himself calls 'Sectumsempra' Dark Magis I really do have to agree with him

I think the example does not hold for me because the Potters were alive when Snape came to Dumbledore and there were means to protect them, to keep them safe from Voldemort for as long as it took. They went under the Fidelus charm and I think if they had not been betrayed by Peter, they would have lived and maybe even survived the second war, unless of course they died of natural causes/the war (assuming they decided to fight in the Order again).

Yes they were alive. All we know for sure is that they were alive. We don't know how many close shaves they had or anything else. We only know that Snape told Voldemort some poor woman was going to have a baby and that baby was going to bring Voldemort down. That was what he told him. ow seeing that Voldemort was a murderous maniac and Snape had worked for him for over year I think that Snape knew this pretty well. Snape was one smart cookie. But Dumbledore could only do so much and Snape had already done his part in the conspiracy to kill the Potters. He went to Dumbledore with too little, too late in my mind. Voldemort would never have given up, and Remus admitted, the Order and the Ministry was losing. Voldemort and his henchmen were killing everybody they could. The Potter's were condemned from the minute Snape opened his mouth and he knew that for the rest of his life. I think he probably relived that minute over and over again.

But they did not survive; they died. I feel they did not die because of Snape but because Peter betrayed them. I don't hold Snape responsible for what Peter did or for what Voldemort did. Even as he came to Dumbledore, I think Snape was still culpable for taking a Prophecy knowing Voldemort would use it in a harmful manner and kill a child.

But if you believe that, why are you saying that Snape was not responsible for what Peter and Voldemort did? Peter only gave out the address. How was he supposed to know what Voldemort was going to do? It's the same as with Snape, if Snape's not responsible then Peter's not responsible.

I think Snape would fully be responsible for James and Lily's deaths had he not come to Dumbledore and warned him in time. Then had the Potters died even when they were in hiding, Snape imo would have been fully responsible for their deaths. But when Snape came to Dumbledore and warned him, and later the Potters died because Peter betrayed their hiding place, I don't think Snape is responsible or culpable for that betrayal or murder.

[staff edit]

Dumbledore didn't kill anyone. Voldemort did, with a little help.

Do you mean in canon? I agree there are no dates; I was answering another poster; but I feel what ever the date I am quite sure Snape came well in time to warn Dumbledore. By well in time I mean he came when the Potters were alive. That is canon as I understand in the Prince's Tale.

Dates would help, as it stands it could have been anytime the trees were bare in Britain. Late fall to early spring, all we can do is guess.

HBP - Sectumsempra "Liar," said Snape. Harry's throat went dry. He knew what Snape was going to do and he had never been able to prevent it... The bathroom seemed to shimmer before his eyes; he struggled to block out all thought, but try as he might, the Half-Blood Prince's copy of Advanced Potion-Making swam hazily to the forefront of his mind. And then he was staring at Snape again, in the midst of this wrecked, soaked bathroom. He stared into Snape's black eyes, hoping against hope that Snape had not seen what he feared, but -- "Bring me your schoolbag," said Snape softly, "and all of your schoolbooks. All of them. Bring them to me here. Now!" There was not point arguing. Harry turned at once and splashed out of the bathroom. Once in the corridor, he broke into a run toward Gryffindor Tower. Most people were walking the other way; they gaped at him, drenched in water and blood, but he answered none of the questions fired at him as he ran past. He felt stunned; it was as though a beloved pet had turned suddenly savage; what had the Prince been thinking to copy such a spell into his book? And what would happen when Snape saw it? Would he tell Slughorn -- Harry's stomach churned -- how Harry had been achieving such good results in Potions all year? Would he confiscate or destroy the book that had taught Harry so much...the book that had become a kind of guide and friend? Harry could not let it happen...he could not... Harry ran flat-out toward the bathroom on the floor below, cramming Ron's copy of Advanced Potion-Making into his bag as he did so. A minute later, he was back in front of Snape, who held out his hand wordlessly for Harry's schoolbag. Harry handed it over, panting, a searing pain in his chest, and waited. One by one, Snape extracted Harry's books and examined them. Finally, the only book left was the Potions book, which he looked at very carefully before speaking. "This is your copy of Advanced Potion-Making, is it, Potter?" "Yes," said Harry, still breathing hard. "You're quite sure of that, are you, Potter?" "Yes," said Harry, with a touch more defiance. "This is the copy of Advanced Potion-Making that you purchased from Flourish and Blotts?" "Yes," said Harry firmly. "Then why," asked Snape, "does it have the name 'Roonil Waslib' written inside the front cover?" Harry's heart missed a beat. "That's my nickname," he said. "Your nickname, repeated Snape. "Yeah...that's what my friends call me," said Harry. "I understand what a nickname is," said Snape. The cold, black eyes were boring once more into Harry's; he tried not to look into them. Close your mind...Close your mind...But he had never learned how to do it properly... Do you know what I think, Potter?" said Snape, very quietly. "I think that you are a liar and a cheat and that you deserve detention with me every Saturday until the end of term. What do you think Potter?"

Where is Legilimency mentioned? Hary thinks that Snape is using it but he can't be sure and Snape doesn't push it even though he and Harry is alone. Of course if it came out that he was really that careless as to leave such a dangerous book in his old classroom, Dumbledore would probably have ripped him a good one. But Snape was only human. He made mistakes like everyone else.

I think Snape was the same to everyone; if they were clumsy I think they suffered his sarcasm or anger depending upon how careless they've been. I don't think he was different to other sets of students.

I would have hated having a teacher like Snape n a classroom where you handle dangerous ingredients. It's the only thing I really have against him. He was a real lousy teacher as far as I can see. I don't blame him for passing on the Prophecy, well I do blame him but he was a Death Eater and Death Eaters gotta do what Death Eaters do. So I don't get mad at him for that, it's the plot of the books. I do think he was the worst possible teacher for nervous kids like Neville. Dumbedore really should have sent him for some training. It's not enough to know your subject, when your a teacher you really have to be able to teach the kids. Well he wasn't as bad as Umbridge.

I don't think they do. Harry's set always has classes with Slytherins until sixth year when all the four Houses study together (IIRC).

It was a really small class going on to Newt Level.

[ignisia]

Chrys- I think he'd have been better-suited to NEWT-only classes or something more advanced. I'd have especially loved to know what his impression of the Ravenclaws would be, as IMO they're the only House apart from Slytherin which might have a chance of impressing him.

As for DADA, I don't think he was entirely opposed to having the job so long as he knew it wouldn't involve any danger (something he couldn't really be sure of at all). He appears to have a deep appreciation for the subject. However, I don't see him sending in letter after letter and request after request to DD each year. I think he had a genuine liking for the subject and a vague desire to teach it, and encouraged the impression that he was actively seeking the job because it was useful for him to cultivate a sinister reputation.

[silver ink pot]

Originally Posted by snapes_witch

I wonder who actually decided on the pairings? Wouldn't it have been the Headmaster and his deputy? That seems more likely to me than the individual teachers.

Yes, that's a good point. It seems likely that Snape would have worked it out with McGonagall at least since Dumbledore seems more hands-off and uninvolved with the daily scheduling. But that's just my guess as the Headmaster seemed a little detached from the rest of the school except for appointing Prefects.

It could have also been decided based on custom and tradition. We know the Gryffindors must have had some classes with the Slytherins back in the day for Sirius to know so much about Snape's "oddball" interests. So maybe it's just the way it's always been at Hogwarts.

ETA: About DADA: I think the "letter year after year" was a cover story that worked to Dumbledore/Snape's advantage with Umbridge in OotP. Snape and the other teachers knew the position was cursed, according to CoS when Gilderoy was the only one who would take the job.

I think Snape would have liked to be Harry's DADA teacher, but it wasn't possible until they knew that Dumbledore only had a year to live, and then Slughorn returned to take over with Potions. As it was, Snape did teach Harry and the others "Expelliarmus" in the Dueling Club, and that's definitely one of the best defensive spells Harry ever learned.

[gabriele87]

[quote=MsJPotter;5697626]

Where is Legilimency mentioned? Hary thinks that Snape is using it but he can't be sure and Snape doesn't push it even though he and Harry is alone. Of course if it came out that he was really that careless as to leave such a dangerous book in his old classroom, Dumbledore would probably have ripped him a good one. But Snape was only human. He made mistakes like everyone else.

It's called an inference. Authors don't always tell you what is happening in a story, but they will show you or hint at it. And based on Harry's Occlumency sessions in OOTP, Snape is clearly using Legilimency against Harry in this moment. The description of having your mind invaded is similar to OOTP's description, and Harry thinks to himself that Snape was seeing his thoughts.

[SadiraSnape]

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

I wonder if Snape would've been a bit 'better' in a 'Puff/Ravenclaw class. Then again, there might be dunderheads in that class as well.

Considering that Hufflepuff isn't know for brains but for industriousness, I believe Sev would have been pulling out his hair over meticulously prepared, horribly wrong, potions... not to mention a bunch of know-it-all Ravenclaws. Although they'd have kept him on his toes, wouldn't they? Maybe he considered the Gryff/Slyth period just a bit of light relief -- nothing to worry about in there but Neville, Crabbe & Goyle, and he could burn off the irritation with a bit of random Harry-chivvying or Hermione-ignoring.

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

I think he would've appreciated clever students with an abiding interest in his subject. I think the reason he disliked Hermione was, no particular order, that she was Harry's best friend, a Gryffindor, and rather eager to prove herself.

No doubt. I wouldn't be surprised if he had kept his old Potions book in the cupboard for use with his NEWT level classes, in order to pass on his more esoteric knowledge.

As for Hermione, I think it was her being a Gryffindor first and an over-eager know-it-all second that annoyed him the most. I don't think he really disliked her -- she just grated on his nerves. Being Harry's friend I don't believe made any difference to him one way or the other.

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

I've always thought it would've been hilarious to see a Snape/Luna Lovegood interaction. The closest we came to that was the Christmas party in HBP.

Can't you just see her asking him if his head was full of wrackspurts ("Pardon me, Professor, you seem distracted today. Are the wrackspurts bothering you much? They're certainly a nuisance...")? Or peering at him through the SpectreSpecs in class? But for all we know, she was his favorite student -- she's bright and has a different way of thinking about things, she may have found new ways to brew a Potion that would be vastly superior to the standard way... I think Sev would have appreciated a student who could think so easily outside the box.

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

Does anybody else wonder whether Snape was actually so keen on the DADA job?

I don't really know -- do we really ever see him actually say, "I want the DADA position"? I know it's bandied about amongst the students that he wants it, but do we know for certain Severus himself wants it? Given there's a curse on it, and he's quite comfy as a teacher at Hogwarts...

Originally Posted by MsJPotter

Sorry to disagree with you but if Snape himself calls 'Sectumsempra' Dark Magic I really do have to agree with him

We discussed the living daylights out of this particular question: was Sectumsempra Dark Magic a few weeks ago. If you're referring to TFotP, Harry has also tried Crucio while chasing Snape. I don't think it's altogether clear which spell Snape is calling "Dark Magic".

[MinervasCat]

As far as the House pairings for classes, maybe it was worked out so that all of the Houses had some classes together, such as Arithmancy, Astronomy, etc., that we aren't specifically told about. I don't remember in SS/SP which classes had Charms together. So the schedule may have been set up to mix them around as much as possible so that they all got to meet each other on a classroom level at sometime. Otherwise, as close-knit as the Housemates seemed, they'd have only seen each other in the Great Hall at mealtimes.

As for Severus applying for the DADA position, as a teacher he would have known the position had a curse on it and he'd have only stayed in it a year. But, I think he had to give the impression that he wanted it that badly.

Since Voldy had set up Draco to kill Dumbledore (with plenty of backup), I guess he wasn't worried about Severus keeping the DADA position more than that year because he planned to take over the school and make Severus Headmaster.

I'd say that Voldemort had already told Severus about the plan to have Draco try to kill Dumbledore. I also have a feeling that Bella ran right to Voldy with the news of the Unbreakable Vow. Since she would have sacrificed all her sons (if she'd had any) for the Dark Lord, I'm sure a sister wouldn't have been much of a loss to her.

Wonder what that conversation between Severus and Voldemort was like?

[sekhmetlion]

Snape and Luna: I would have given a hand to see Luna with her spectroscopes glaring at Snape in the dungeons
But still I think she would be too much out of the normal path to Snape's taste, usually her thinking leads her noway, and that is a disadvantage to him. Maybe in later years when Luna came to earth a bit....

I think Snape did actually want the DADA position, and let DD know he wanted it, however I don't picture him asking or sending an application year by year. Perhaps Snape considered himself able to rid the position from its curse.

And I think he would be less extreme in his behaviour with Huff/Ravens than with Sly/Griff, the formers just put him on his nerves.

I guess the pairing of the classes was established long ago through Hogwart traditions. It doesn't stuck to me like a place where lots of innovations were made each year.