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#141
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Re: The Japan Earthquake and Tsunami
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Hopefully they can get the cooling systems working again, if they can't then It's all bets are off time. I suspect the workers at the Fukushima plant are well aware of the risks and dangers, in fact I believe one worker said he was willing to die to prevent the looming disaster. Quote:
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If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. I'm lme. Really lme.
or so says Moriath |
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#142
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Re: The Japan Earthquake and Tsunami
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The Japanese are ordering huge quantities of Boric Acid from many countries around the world, so this means they are preparing for worst case scenarios. The French Foreign Ministry say Paris will send 100 tons of boric acid to Japan to dampen radiation and help the country fight a nuclear crisis following a devastating quake. "[France's nuclear manufacturer] Areva and Electricite de France (EDF) are flying a plane with almost 100 tons of boric acid and protective equipment, including 10,000 suits, 20,000 pairs of gloves and 3,000 masks," the foreign ministry said in a statement on Thursday. South Korea also plans to send 56.2 tons of boric acid to Japan to help Tokyo cope with the situation. The massive C-17 military plane arrived and Vandenberg was ready to load the critical cargo. Diablo Canyon Nuclear Plant says its sending a total of 17 tons or 34,000 pounds of boric acid. Boric acid is a key material containing boron that could be added to sand & cement mixtures to lower the dangerous nuclear reactions & temperatures. It might be applied with water directly into the water containment pools, but no one is able to get near the dangerous spent fuel pool at reactor 3. |
#143
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Re: The Japan Earthquake and Tsunami
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![]() ![]() UnicornSeeker8718 (Pottermore) |
#144
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Re: The Japan Earthquake and Tsunami
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![]() However, my posts on this subject were always dealing on the 'macro scale' speaking in terms of national traits (history, etc.) and not on a 'micro scale' of the individual. I'm categorizing on a national scale & speaking of generalization & percentages of whole populations. Of course, every individual will react in their own unique way that varies from person to person, but these individual reactions can be categorized & analyzed in the way I'm suggesting too. (Such as surveys and polling is done.) I'm just offering my informed opinion, but I think I'm being accurate too. Hopefully. ![]() |
#145
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Re: The Japan Earthquake and Tsunami
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#146
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Re: The Japan Earthquake and Tsunami
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I think that's because we still only assume how things exactly are like. What we assume is very likely, and partly supported by reports like a slightly higher radiation 300 miles away, much higher radiation than usual 30 miles from Fukushima, and dangerously high radiation at Fukushima itself - from such things we know that eg radiation is leaking at all, and that there must be bigger damages than one week before. But as long as the next damage isn't confirmed as fact (even if there must be something), Japanese government won't raise the level to 6 or 7. I believe that's actually logical since nobody would take the next step before knowing what's up. It's maybe like putting three people into one room, coming back next day and seeing that one was murdered. You know that something bad happened and that there's a murderer, but you won't instantly punish both other guys as long as the details of the case are unknown. The nuclear accident levels are a formal standard, but not telling us how things really are right now. We only know how they aren't anymore. Quote:
What Tepco and the US military do at Fukushima is disaster-management, but ordering boric acid is prevention and I think as such fully reasonable. This kind of catastrophe isn't yet here. Quote:
Such situations often only can get judged upon afterwards. Some media certainly need to check their information better. Internet is a mess in such situations: who reports last, doesn't earn money, so they post the news as soon as they come. But many people also fail in recognizing what really is written or that a news isn't yet confirmed. It's a problem on both sides I believe. Some media surely also need to word information which actually are right more carefully. We already talked about this impression that some seem to want the next step further into apocalypse, what's simply ugly. But many also just do their job and report what's up - and this just is worrisome news these days, in the overall picture. Much of it, I think, looks like catastrophe hunting because it is a catastrophe. That's said I don't care of I get wrong information while I sit in Western Europe. But I hope the people 0 to 500 miles around Fukushima get correct information and also - what's likely problematic due to the other damages after the earthquake - get them in time. It doesn't help when worried Europeans tell their traveling relatives to leave their save home, when evacuation time didn't yet come because the cloud is currently above the houses. There's an order of measure only the government can set, and hopefully they're able to do it right. As many pointed out already, there are many people to take care for after the earthquake, and the cold temperatures aren't helping either.
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(Avatar by Alfonzo) ![]() I don't want to live in a world where the strong rules and the weak cower. Harry Dresden. |
#147
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Re: The Japan Earthquake and Tsunami
The Japanese Nuclear Accidents are not IAEA "Level 5" accidents if Three Mile Island is also a "Level 5" too.
Why? Victor Gilinsky former Chief Commissioner of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission during the 3 Mile Island accident said today: In every way this is way way beyond Three Mile Island, and there is very little [if anything] in comparison between the two accidents 'now' both rated at Level 5. At 3 Mile Island he said the emergency cooling was accidentally cut off by human error for only 2 hours, which was found-out & turned back on. It worked, and no further damage was done. In Japan he said there are already containment failures, none of the emergency systems are working, power is out, and [dangerous] far higher radiation releases continue. None of these issues occurred at 3 Mile Island. I agree with Victor Gilinsky, and I say these accidents are very different in severity & in the amount of failures & damage & radiation leakage. I do not think the Japanese accidents should be rated a Level 5. In my firm opinion the Japanese accidents have been a Level 6 for many days already! It seems at least one nuclear expert agrees with my opinion: A Nuclear Power Plant Engineer said this is a Level 6 IAEA Accident already (on MSNBC today, Friday). These two disasters are totally different in scale & severity, so these are not equally compared or rated as an IAEA Level 5, not accurately, imo. |
#148
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Re: The Japan Earthquake and Tsunami
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As none of us here are nuclear technicians who are on the scene and privy to all the information, it's not for us to say. Quote:
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A patriot is someone who wants the best for his country, including the best laws and the best ideals. It's something other people should call you -- you shouldn't call yourself that. People who call themselves patriots are usually liars. -- Donald Woods You got what anybody gets . . . You got a lifetime. -- Death of the Endless |
#149
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Re: The Japan Earthquake and Tsunami
In a press conference today (tonight here), Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano told reporters that some milk and spinach samples from the area surrounding the Fukushima nuclear facility has tested positive for radiation, above acceptable levels.
This being said, and to keep things in proportion, the amount found was approximately 1/5th of the level one might find in a CT scan. http://www.washingtonpost.com/busine...Its_story.html
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The Bad Girls of Hogwarts! NEVER underestimate an old witch! "Angels fly because they take themselves lightly." ![]() |
#150
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I was interested to see that the maximum radiation level allowed for the rescue workers (250 ms) is one tenth of that allowed for astronauts |
#151
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Re: The Japan Earthquake and Tsunami
I'd expect that the amount of radiation so far released would be negligable compared to the amounts which drifted over populated areas in the US and USSR when above ground nuclear weapons testing was all the rage.
__________________
A patriot is someone who wants the best for his country, including the best laws and the best ideals. It's something other people should call you -- you shouldn't call yourself that. People who call themselves patriots are usually liars. -- Donald Woods You got what anybody gets . . . You got a lifetime. -- Death of the Endless |
#152
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Re: The Japan Earthquake and Tsunami
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#153
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Re: The Japan Earthquake and Tsunami
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ETA: here Specifically: Quote:
Last edited by Melaszka; March 19th, 2011 at 1:53 pm. |
#154
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Re: The Japan Earthquake and Tsunami
Mel, worded that way it does make more sense. Still that's on top of the normal radiation that one is exposed to plus all the extra radiation from other sources. (not just milk) It's not like all the normal radiation ust goes away...
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#155
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Re: The Japan Earthquake and Tsunami
Absolutely - I wouldn't want to be drinking it, either (well, I don't actually drink milk at all, but you know what I mean...). But it could be a lot worse and they are trying to take steps to keep it out of the food chain, which is encouraging.
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#156
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Re: The Japan Earthquake and Tsunami
There are at least three "saving face" nuclear accident problems the Japanese government faces, and two of these have been in direct conflict with respected nuclear power experts outside Japan for several days now.
1) The Japanese leadership are in denial, imo, when they elevated the accident to a Level 5 (Three Mile Island). I pointed out in a previous post Click Here About Level 5 using two well respected nuclear expert opinions, and, also, that every nuclear expert interviewed I've seen so far state that none believe it to be a Level 5 accident. Every expert has said it is well beyond that point days ago. It is not a Level 5 Three Mile Island accident according to these experts. It is blatantly obvious to their rational analysis. 2) The USA government recommended days ago that the evacuation zone should be 50 miles, and this is in direct conflict with the Japanese government 12.5 mile zone. Every nuclear expert I've seen in the media outside Japan suggests the American zone is correct & safe. 3) Furthermore, there have been very high levels, very dangerous radiation levels, escaping from the some of the failed reactors or storage pools (Unit 3 & 4) for days now. This radiation is going to spread on the wind & fall on the rain/snow & particulates, and there will be pockets of dangerous levels of radiation such that people can not live there again for years or decades or more. It is not possible to clean-up some of these areas to make it safe again. Just like coal pollution concentrates its mercury poisoning into rivers & lakes eliminating the possibility of eating fish with these high levels of mercury, so it will be for poisonous radiation that will be concentrated into the food chain by these same environmental processes. 4) Many nuclear experts believe that at least 2-4 reactors are so damaged that restoring power will make no difference & could actually cause further damage or accidents. Already there is too much radiation damage, salt water damage, explosion damage, and other heat & nuclear fuel damage that it's just too dangerous to restore power & do extensive repairs. All 6 reactors are a clean-up operations anyway. This is a total loss for probably all 6 reactors, as none are going to provide electric power ever again. The remaining question is whether or not the clean-up can be done safely without further major releases of dangerous levels of radiation. (Every day so far there have been dangerous levels released.) The wind currents & weather will play the biggest role in local radiation poisoning for the Japanese until they can stop these releases of dangerous radiation directly into the atmosphere. I think it will be another 1-2 weeks before we will really know if this is getting under control or not. Some good news already is that there are no further major radiation accidents, and that is a positive sign. ![]() Last edited by wandrider; March 19th, 2011 at 6:36 pm. Reason: spelling |
#157
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Re: The Japan Earthquake and Tsunami
The reports I've seen, as well as interviews with experts give the impression that the sole purpose of restoring power is to get the cooling water pumps running, not to do extensive repairs whatever that may mean. But there are serious dangers involved and nobody knows if those pumps are still in working order. I'm not an expert but I believe that the reason why they are trying is that restoring the cooling water system is the only way to eliminate the risk of further really serious emissions.
I can still understand that the Japanese authorities may want to tone it down a bit to avoid panic. In the current situation with most of the infrastructure destroyed it's probably not even possible to evacuate everyone living within 50 miles from the site.
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#158
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Re: The Japan Earthquake and Tsunami
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Even burying the radiation damage under sand & cement could cause too much heat to build-up restarting fission reactions that would be uncontrolled. Restoring cooling to areas that are not superheated yet is a very good idea, but it's not certain this will work & not do even greater damage where the radiation fuel is in a superheated state. I hope this is not a guessing game, and they can safely make the calculations based on accurate measurements. ![]() I honestly don't understand why some remote robots have not been used to at least take temperature & radiation readings plus video/pictures of the damage inside the buildings, and, especially, of the containment pools of spent fuel? Last edited by wandrider; March 20th, 2011 at 12:16 am. Reason: add detail |
#159
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Re: The Japan Earthquake and Tsunami
I have been wondering that, too. Observation, reconnaissance and important information gathering seems like a robot-made-to-order-job in this instance.
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The Bad Girls of Hogwarts! NEVER underestimate an old witch! "Angels fly because they take themselves lightly." ![]() |
#160
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Re: The Japan Earthquake and Tsunami
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The radiation is so bad at Units 3 & 4 that they are using unmanned water spraying. As soon as the firefighters position the vehicles & spray, the humans leave the area... On Saturday the firefighters had set up an unmanned vehicle in front of the reactor building. The vehicle can spray seawater from a height of 22 meters directly into a pool containing spent fuel rods. A pump vehicle supplied seawater through an 800-meter hose. After adjusting the position of the unmanned vehicle and the direction of its spray, the firefighters left. The unmanned operation was originally planned to continue for 7 hours. But the fire department extended it by more than 6 hours after a government taskforce asked that water be sprayed for as long as possible. |
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