Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - Part Two [incl. SPOILERS] v.3

[nicholasmanning]

i remember that neville,s grandmother had been cast for deathly hallows part 2 did any of the test screeners remember seeing her?

[katana]

Yeah, it's kind of like how in OOTP, the DE's could grab the kids and take them with. I think because LV has a hold of Harry, he can just take Harry with him.

[magnolia7]

Wow so I have finally read all reponses from the test screening and so far the movie sounds amazing I love the fact that they protray Snape character so good in this one! The Ron and hermione kiss sounds amazing and so does the battle of hogwards.

I really dont mind that they dont metion Dumbledore backstory, because its info that the audience doesnt really need to know (unless your a hardcore hp fan).

The things that Do bother me is:
1. We dont get to see Fred's death on screen! I was really looking forward to that because i knew it would be very emotional.

2. No Wormtail?! are you serious? so did he died in part 1? thats a shame i really wanted to see what they would do with in part 2

3. I dont like the fact that Ron doesnt hug Harry and just says 'bye'. I hope they show emotion in his face experssion. And most imporantly, do hermione and ron really let harry just leave and die?????

other then that, the movie sounds amazing

[iamwood]

After reading all of the reviews and this entire thread over the past 36 hours, my main area of interest, having had all excitement of The Flaw in the Plan extinguished, is since Harry basically walks straight up to Ron and Hermione and says something like, "Oh, by the way, I'm gonna go give myself up now to Ole Voldy, so do you fancy taking care of that great snake for me since I never got the chance? That'd be great, bye now.">>>What are the reactions of Ron and Hermione going to be like when Hagrid shows up holding "dead" Harry? "Oh, so that's what my best mate looks like after he's snuffed it." I know there are several jarring reactions from Ginny, Neville, etc. But why did Ron and Hermione have to know Harry was giving himself up? What happened to his long walk under the Cloak from the Headmaster's office to the Forest? He won't be thinking of everyone as he moves past them, won't be thinking of Ginny as she helps that girl in the courtyard, won't be emotionally begging for someone to stop him, won't be conscious of his own heart fighting to break out of his chest, knowing it's time is nearly up.


That journey, for me, was one of the most emotional points in the entire series and probably one of the reasons I'm such the fan I am today. Those emotional connections, severed in favor of cinematic adaptation, and for what?

I'm still excited to see this though, here's to an incredibly July 15th for us all here at CoS.

[chunky_monkey]

Originally Posted by iamwood

After reading all of the reviews and this entire thread over the past 36 hours, my main area of interest, having had all excitement of The Flaw in the Plan extinguished, is since Harry basically walks straight up to Ron and Hermione and says something like, "Oh, by the way, I'm gonna go give myself up now to Ole Voldy, so do you fancy taking care of that great snake for me since I never got the chance? That'd be great, bye now.">>>What are the reactions of Ron and Hermione going to be like when Hagrid shows up holding "dead" Harry? "Oh, so that's what my best mate looks like after he's snuffed it." I know there are several jarring reactions from Ginny, Neville, etc. But why did Ron and Hermione have to know Harry was giving himself up? What happened to his long walk under the Cloak from the Headmaster's office to the Forest? He won't be thinking of everyone as he moves past them, won't be thinking of Ginny as she helps that girl in the courtyard, won't be emotionally begging for someone to stop him, won't be conscious of his own heart fighting to break out of his chest, knowing it's time is nearly up.


That journey, for me, was one of the most emotional points in the entire series and probably one of the reasons I'm such the fan I am today. Those emotional connections, severed in favor of cinematic adaptation, and for what?

I'm still excited to see this though, here's to an incredibly July 15th for us all here at CoS.

I agree with you completely. Unfortunately we can't hear Harry's inner monologue in film so we'll just have to hope that the actors can portray several levels of emotion. So far, the only member of the trio that I am convinced can do this is Rupert Grint.

[katana]

Originally Posted by magnolia7

3. I dont like the fact that Ron doesnt hug Harry and just says 'bye'. I hope they show emotion in his face experssion. And most imporantly, do hermione and ron really let harry just leave and die?????

I'm not thrilled about it either, but at the same time, I think it'll be fine.
The only thing I can think that will make it work, is that Ron and Hermione know that LV cannot be destroyed unless all the horcruxes are destroyed. I guess they'll just have to accept that Harry has to go and they'll have to let him.

[magnolia7]

im so with you on this. I just dont understand how Ron and Hermione can just let Harry die!!! He's your best Friend!!

[boushh]

Originally Posted by katana

I'm not thrilled about it either, but at the same time, I think it'll be fine.
The only thing I can think that will make it work, is that Ron and Hermione know that LV cannot be destroyed unless all the horcruxes are destroyed. I guess they'll just have to accept that Harry has to go and they'll have to let him.

Exactly. And it's Harry's choice. I think it should be OK, too.

[MasterOfDeath]

Some new tibits from Rach:

- Harry figures out the "I open at the close" riddle by taking it out, kissing it and reading it and saying, "I am ready to die" and it opens. The stone floats in midair and he catches it with his other hand but the stone was not in the test-screening. It will be added with CGI later.

-He tries to touch his ghost mother but his hand goes through her.

- Most of the dialog from the ghosts is the same as in the book.

- At the end of their conversation, Harry asks them if anyone else would be able to see them and they say no. It cuts immediately from this to the shot from the trailer of Harry walking to Voldemort. We are seeing it from Voldemort's POV now and assume the ghosts are still with Harry even though we do not see them.

She said this whole scene was very emotional and done very well.

[LupinTheGreat]

Originally Posted by jallen

Wonderful! Basically, Dumbly was irresponsible, selfish, and deliberately made plans to harm Muggles with the second-greatest dark wizard of all time in order to take over the Wizarding World for the "greater good." He also had a profound obsession with the Deathly Hallows.

Wow? I'd never expect DD to do such a thing...then again i was thinking about that after hearing the lady in Dh1 speak of DD with her husband who tells Harry he has a brother.

Anyway as i had asked before...since No one has seen Wormtail in the screening, does that mean the "No sign of him my lord" in the trailer was NOT him?


BTW- this may be a bit random, but if you watch the first trailer that had parts 1 and 2 mixed...if you pause at the scene where it looks like Voldy is leading a "charge" with DE's, there is a body laying on the bottom left side. Anyone know who it is?

[LaDonna]

I know one or two people on here have said "the audience won't remember wormtail, and he doesn't need a death scene", but of the many movie only people I know, they clearly recalled him in GOF (which was his second film appearance), they recalled him in HBP (his third), and they recalled him in DH part 1 (his fourth appearance). Odd side characters often stand out to us because of their unusual nature. Dobby did, and I think wormtail did too. As for not wanting to waste time giving him a death scene, why make it where he has to have his own scene added for that? Why not include him in the army trying to cross the bridge to get to Neville, and then we would know Wormtail fell with the rest of the army? Why not have wormtail killed by Voldemort in Gringotts when V starts killing wizards and goblins? He's a character that most movie watchers would like killed off, and there really is no reason not to see his conclusion, especially when he could be have been added to a scene where other DE's die. It could be that he does die, or we see him dead, in one of the wide shots showing bodies, or the bridge collapse, and the few people that have answered questions didn't really notice him at the time because he wasn't given his own scene of death. People (whether they read the books, didn't read the books, watched the previous films repeatedly or only seen the other films once) want slimy, backstabbing, creepy side characters killed off. They just do.


Hermione and Ron being fine with Harry leaving, and Ron saying "Bye" and not hugging Harry or anything is not the only way that could have worked on film. While in the book we had Harry's thoughts, hearing Harry tell his two best friends he was going off to die wasn't the only other option to let the audience know what was going on. He could have ran it by Dumbledore's portrait in the office (which I would have preferred). I think having Harry run it by someone not alive and close to him would have been way better because anyone who loved Harry wouldn't let him walk to his death. He could have spoken with Ravenclaw's ghost as he was leaving the office, since we already met her earlier when he spoke to her. They could have had Harry tell Ron and Hermione that he has to do something, but not tell them what specifically. Give them a reason to hope/assume that Harry wouldn't die and he had a plan.

Also, while one could suggest that Ron saying bye and not doing anything further could work if Rupert makes great facial expressions conveying his feelings, then why leave that up to Ron's character, and not use it for Harry. If Ron will be able to make facial expressions that convey their friendship and Harry's choice without anything further than one word, why can't Harry convey his final choice and the fear he has with his facial expressions? They could have done this a different way in the film that didn't leave anyone wondering "His two best friends let him leave to go die?" or "Jeez, his best friend only says bye to Harry telling them he's going to leave and die?". We heard we're getting the end of the movie focusing on the trio, and the bridge scene after the battle of the trio. This scene is going to be potentially the end of the trio, if Harry goes and turns himself in to V in order to die, and yet "Bye" is what the filmmakers thought would sum up any feelings Ron has on the subject?

And having Hermione say "Yes, I thought you might a piece of his soul inside you" (I'm paraphrasing, I can't remember the exact but it's after Harry tells them he has a piece of V's soul inside him and he has to sacrifice himself), is unnecessary. It's a big enough thing to deal with learning about in the first place. Snape, who didn't even like Harry, acts shocked by hearing Harry has to sacrifice himself, but his best friend had been thinking this might be the case? And then sends him on his way to die? Yes, Hermione's a genius, and in my opinion she saved them so many times in the books she should have won an award, but why have her say she had thought it was something like this. The only reason I can think of is that it would make the audience feel like Hermione had already put some thought into Harry sacrificing himself, and so she lets him go so easily because she'd already spent time dealing with the idea. But come on, she thinks he's a horcrux and doesn't tell him? She thinks he'll have to die but doesn't tell him? She finds out Harry just learned he has to die 5 minutes ago, and gives him a hug to send him on his way? For pete's sake. You don't have to change characters to translate this to screen, and that's what they're doing. If you want Harry to tell them, then at least have their reactions be consistent with Ron and Hermione. Otherwise, Hermione and Ron are no better than DD, deciding that the right thing to do is have Harry die. The important thing is that Harry makes the hard choice and decides to go meet V. We don't need his friends also hearing about it and agreeing it's necessary.

Okay, that's the big thing that's annoying me from the previews.

I'm so excited by the reviews and q and a sessions I've read. Hearing such positive reactions from TPT is more than I could have hoped for. The only complaint I can foresee me having is that they don't portray Lily and Snape as close friends at school, and if they are going to show James being a jerk at school, and Snape being the quiet friend on the sidelines, then doesn't it make Lily look bad for ditching Snape for no apparent reason and hooking up with the school jerk? They're leaving the mudblood thing out, so it's not like we'll see that Lily stopped being friends with him for his choices. And we won't (apparently) see anything showing the change in James that supposedly happened during his last year of Hogwarts. Those are the only two things I can think of that I might dislike. Even those two I can overlook because my fear was TPT would be treated like SWM in OOTP, or cut altogether, and to hear some viewers call it the best part of the film, completely emotional, etc. is the best thing I've heard about this film. It sounds like you leave the scene feeling sad for Snape, and finally knowing what Harry has to do, and those are the two things that I think are most important.

I was thinking that one of the audience members who answered questions (I read Rach's I think, but everything else has been what you guys have added to this thread) mentioned a scene with Snape and Lily doing magic on/with Butterflies. If that's true, what a great connection to HBP and the beautiful story Slughorn told about his pet fish that came from Lily.

It sucks Ron won't have any lines in the epilogue, but I've come to recognize that Ron's best moments from the books just don't make it into the film. Either they are cut altogether, given to different characters, Ron's role is changed showing Ron in a completely different light (such as the end of HBP, in the book he's there supporting Harry and telling Harry they are going with him, standing right by Hermione, and in the film it's the opposite, with Ron completely separate from Hermione and Harry, and offering not so much as an encouraging nod). Ginny from films 5 onward is just not ever going to measure up to book Ginny, and Harry/Ginny is never going to come close to being well written in the film. Those are two things that I've had to accept and so hearing about the Ginny/Harry things in the film, and Ron's lack of dialogue in the epilogue is something I'm not surprised with. I'm fine with the Harry/Ginny interactions the viewers mentioned, and film Ron just doesn't measure up to book Ron sometimes. Which is too bad because Rupert is a brilliant actor.

I see they mention the mirror, but it was a mistake not to say anything about in DH part 1, and I don't think we're even going to see Harry's shard in part 2, only Aberforth's mirror when he explains the mirror. I'm hoping the people who said you only find out about Lupin's child from the mention in the Forest walk are just not recalling an earlier mention. If the only mention is from Lupin's spirit, I don't know why they are leaving that in? What's the point? It's just going to make people question what the hell he's talking about, and try to remember if they missed something about him having a kid from earlier. They don't even have to strongly recall Lupin to be left wondering who his kid is and when we supposedly learned about him. I say, if that's the only mention, leave Teddy out altogether. Just have Harry say he's sorry Lupin and Tonks died. It wouldn't have the weight of the book's version with a new baby being orphaned in the war, but it'd be clear that Lupin and Tonks died, and that Harry loved Lupin, and that he's really sorry their dead. And that's it. That's all you need from Lupin for the movie version. It's not that I don't want Teddy at all, because I would have loved to see Harry be asked to be the godfather, and I would have loved seeing Lupin happy, but I just feel it's not right to throw a line in their that's only going to serve to make the audience question what he's talking about. This should be sad, emotional time and nobody should be drawn out of that moment by thinking "When did he have a kid?". I think the mirror should have been left out of part 1 since they didn't end up explaining that in part 1. Or they should have added a simple quick line about it if they wanted to keep it. Small things that annoy me about the films. Adding something to the film that comes from the book can be nice for audience members who've read the book, but if you're going to add something from the book that's going to jar with the film, then don't add it.

While I've spent a lot of time explaining my complaints, I want to add that I'm really excited by all the reviews and information we've gotten since yesterday's screening. It sounds like a fantastic film, and it sounds like the emotional scenes are well done, as well as the action scenes. DH part 1 was amazing (though I only saw it once in theaters) and that gave me a lot of hope that DH part 2 was going to be just as amazing. After this screening, I still feel that way, and that's a good thing!

[FutureAuthor13]

Originally Posted by Fury

He knocks Snape's (And Lily's maybe) books out of their hand.

Thanks. I wonder if they'll show James's futile attempts to 'woo' Lily before their 7th year, that may add some humour to an otherwise dark flashback: "Oh. Erm- I didn't mean that Evans, here let me pick them up for you."

Just my opinion.

[snapes_witch]

I guess Dobby's killing Wormtail at the Malfoys was too subtle.

[silver ink pot]

Originally Posted by snapes_witch

I guess Dobby's killing Wormtail at the Malfoys was too subtle.

I guess so! Who would expect Dobby to kill Wormtail anyway? That never even crossed my mind in DH-1.

Originally Posted by FutureAuthor13

I wonder if they'll show James's futile attempts to 'woo' Lily before their 7th year, that may add some humour to an otherwise dark flashback: "Oh. Erm- I didn't mean that Evans, here let me pick them up for you."

Nope, I don't think so. Although I read somewhere that we see them getting married, but I can't recall which review that was.

[SopophorousBean]

Originally Posted by chunky_monkey

I agree with you completely. Unfortunately we can't hear Harry's inner monologue in film so we'll just have to hope that the actors can portray several levels of emotion. So far, the only member of the trio that I am convinced can do this is Rupert Grint.

This was what I was worried about, they obviously can't have the audience hearing Harry's inner monologue like the book, but to have him actually tell Ron and Hermione is just so disappointing I mean, surely then they won't be shocked when they see his body? Their reaction to seeing his body was so heartbreaking in the book. I'm sure they could have explained it to the viewer another way, even if he just said his thought out loud to himself.

I haven't read all of the reports yet, still skim reading bits until I decide how much I want to know (think I've come to the conclusion I need to be prepared for the changes ) but I don't suppose we see him walk past Ginny on his way to his death do we? I'm guessing not.

Wasn't there a shot at Malfor Manor from part one where what looked like Wormtail peeked out from behind a pillar after he'd supposedly been injured by Dobby, therefore proving he was still alive? Or did that turn out not to be him? Or I'm remembering it wrong even so, no Wormtail is disappointing.

I have read some good stuff though, this seems like such a down post that I have to point out I'm still extremely excited for this film!

[decarus]

It was Bellatrix peaking out from behind the pillar.

I really think all they needed to do was have Dumbledore be emphatic in the memories that Harry must be the one to die because he is a horcrux. Say he has to go to Voldemort to die. That that was the important thing. As long as they do that in the memories there is no need for Harry to say anything to Ron and Hermione. Then any other dialogue could be with the ghosts. About his fear and then about his desire to protect the people. He could say that to the ghosts. I just don't think that there is a good reason for them to have them talk to Ron and Hermione. I am not going to say i hate the scene because it might be fine but saying it out loud is not a good enough reason because he could say it somewhere else.

[ThaiHPFan]

Originally Posted by decarus

Then any other dialogue could be with the ghosts. About his fear and then about his desire to protect the people. He could say that to the ghosts. I just don't think that there is a good reason for them to have them talk to Ron and Hermione. I am not going to say i hate the scene because it might be fine but saying it out loud is not a good enough reason because he could say it somewhere else.

Dragging the resurrection stone scene for too long would just ruin the emotional impact of the scene. That's probably why JKR made the conversation with the ghosts in the book very short as well. Making it too long or including too many dialogues would not benefit the scene.

[Sacred_Memories]

I think the scene with Harry telling Ron/Hermione could have worked if they begged him not to go, and he had to pull the Invisibility Cloak over him to leave them, with a shot of him in deep emotional pain.

[arithmancer]

Originally Posted by LaDonna

While in the book we had Harry's thoughts, hearing Harry tell his two best friends he was going off to die wasn't the only other option to let the audience know what was going on. He could have ran it by Dumbledore's portrait in the office (which I would have preferred).

Do you mean before or after his "death"? Before would make the entire Snape subplot superfluous. Why have Snape tough it out at the school, give Harry the memories, and die horribly when Harry could just run it all by Albus' portait? After is bad because we need to know what Harry is doing as he is doing it, not in retrospect.

I think having Harry run it by someone not alive and close to him would have been way better because anyone who loved Harry wouldn't let him walk to his death.

Really? In the book, Lily, Lupin, James, and Sirius seemed all for it.

Also, while one could suggest that Ron saying bye and not doing anything further could work if Rupert makes great facial expressions conveying his feelings, then why leave that up to Ron's character, and not use it for Harry.

Because Harry's action is not 100% emotion, there is a thought process there too. Whereas Rupert making some heartbreaking expression, displaying some dejected body language, or what have you, is.

The only reason I can think of is that it would make the audience feel like Hermione had already put some thought into Harry sacrificing himself, and so she lets him go so easily because she'd already spent time dealing with the idea.

I can think of another reason. This decision by Harry is THE key decision of the series. We need to be sure why he is doing it, and we need to be sure he is right. (Heck, I even know book readers who equated Harry to a young suicide bomber and Albus to a terrorist leader who recruits same. Or who attribute Harry's acquiescence to the plan to Harry's just being "depressed" and "tired of it all" and losing his will to fight.) Having Harry enunciate his reasons -" I am the last Horcrux, I am the only one who can end it", to someone, helps with the first. And I think it is more meaningful if the someone is someone Harry and the audience know (why would Harry be making such confidences at random to the ghost of Helena Ravenclaw? )

From the reviews I have read (all the ones linked here) I can't tell if the movie gets across Harry's (and Snape's) sense of betrayal by Albus to the audience. I also can't tell how ambiguously or otherwise it conveys Snape's feelings for Harry (independent of Lily). But we might very well be looking at a situation where, from the audience point of view, two characters who don't give a fig for Harry, are telling him he has to die. If this is indeed where the audience is in this moment, having Hermione state she also suspected it, gives us someone with the same smarts credentials, someone the audience is equally used to having her facts straight, as Severus and Albus, but with impeccable "loves Harry" credentials, confirming the facts of the situation. In the book, we have Harry's extended internal thoughts about this serving these same functions.

But come on, she thinks he's a horcrux and doesn't tell him? She thinks he'll have to die but doesn't tell him?

She suspects, and hopes it is not so. How different is this from what Albus does in the book, even (or perhaps especially) after he has grown to love Harry?

She finds out Harry just learned he has to die 5 minutes ago, and gives him a hug to send him on his way? For pete's sake. You don't have to change characters to translate this to screen, and that's what they're doing.

She did not even give him a hug, that I can recall, when she sent him through to face "Snape" in PS/SS. I don't see how this is changing the character. All three of them are (again) acting under (what they believe to be, in the first case) exigent circumstances, and all three of them are already dealing with the very recent deaths of loved ones, and the possibility that many more of same will be dying soon.

Otherwise, Hermione and Ron are no better than DD, deciding that the right thing to do is have Harry die.

"Worse" actually, since Albus is guessing Harry will not die at all.

The important thing is that Harry makes the hard choice and decides to go meet V.

If it is the right choice for him, it is the right choice for his friends to allow it, I would say... (hence, worse in quotes. I don't agree this is bad.)

Is it well done? Since I was not in the test screening...ask me in July.

And we won't (apparently) see anything showing the change in James that supposedly happened during his last year of Hogwarts.

Which will make the movie in this one respect...exactly like the books.

[ajna]

Originally Posted by magnolia7

im so with you on this. I just dont understand how Ron and Hermione can just let Harry die!!! He's your best Friend!!

I think that this line of thinking doesn't give Ron and Hermione enough credit. They've been on this ride since the beginning. They have learned all the same information that Harry has. Harry knows he has to sacrifice himself. Now in the book, he doesn't. I might have thought this would be the way to go in the film, because Harry does think they won't let him go. But if they had known, if they had believed this was the only way to end it, I think they would have let him go.