Harry Potter & The Deathly Hallows Part 2: Discussion

[decarus]

I agree that this is the first film that i thought failed the spirit of the story. It did not live up to what a good end should be for the film series. It did not make sense and did not create a proper conclusion for the series. It was flashy at times, but that was about it.

[flimseycauldron]

Originally Posted by decarus

I agree that this is the first film that i thought failed the spirit of the story. It did not live up to what a good end should be for the film series. It did not make sense and did not create a proper conclusion for the series. It was flashy at times, but that was about it.

TBH I think that that was the fault of the book more than the movie

[Justincase]

Originally Posted by Queen of Wise

Movies never live up to the books. The books will always be my favorite, and I'll still continue to read them over and over because no matter how many times I've read them I always pick up on something new each time. The movies just can't live up to all the details we want them to. I wanted to see more as well, but with only under 3 hours to do so, they can't incorporate everything. Also, I think that the people who read the books expect the movies to be just as great, and they generally aren't. Initially my favorite film was the very first one, because that was the first time they brought the magical world to life.

But now that the series is over, we'll never see anymore of the again, that's why I think I liked this last one so much. I know they left a lot of things out, and some things were not correct according to the book, but we have to take into consideration that they also have to make the films for all audiences, including those people who have never even read the books. (which in my opinion, is just totally ridiculous :P if you haven't read the books you're totally lost in any of the films).

Yeah, I mean I know they can't live up to the books. I know there's people that expect the films to be as great as the books but I'm not one of them. Because I know more than well that films are NEVER as good as the books are. I walk into the cinema expecting to see an ADAPTATION of the books, but a loyal adaptation. But I think I was more let down by.. 'the feeling' of it than by what they did or didn't include.

When I read the book, especially the final battle of course, you felt literally in the middle of the war. You felt the tension and the excitement and the angst and fright. The world around you disappear completely and you were thrown into the book just like Harry with Riddle's Diary. You felt just like one more character there with a wand surrounded by explosions and spells and creatures and death... And the failed taking that to the big screen. The failed catastrophically.

When Harry got back to Hogwarts to the Room of Requirement and he found all the DA there, and then Professor McGonagall preparing the evacuation (something that BY NO MEANS the should've taken out) when Harry's mind was racing about finding the last horrocruxes you could feel all the tension building and you slowly became aware of how huge was that. But in the film you didn't feel that. It was just pointless conversation and people running here and there.

And then in the Room of Requirement. That moment, that triumphant moment when Harry and you, the reader, realize that you've seen that diadem before and you just look fascinated but how weijbfvhdkbvhds (sorry, couldn't find another word to describe it) JKRowling is that she left it waiting there for you. And then you go and you try to find it and there's all this tension because you know that you're running out of time. And it's a brilliant atmosphere because you can feel all the pressure of the war that's going on outside still you're in some kind of parenthesis, you can't hear what's going outside. And then FyendFire. Phoenixes, quimeras and snakes made out of fire. And Harry with Ron and Hermione RUNNING FOR THEIR LIVES.

I mean... IMO the important thing to this film was the feeling. The tension and the war and pre-war feeling because when you read the book that was just SO BRILLIANT that it swallowed you completely and suddenly you were at Hogwarts.

You had fiery creatures burning this massive place full of things and you had an epic battle with magic and creatures in the middle of an 'enchanted' castle. It had all the characterisitics to be absolutely epic and it wasn't. And IMO one can't discuss that. One could discuss if it was a good or a bad film, better or worse than the others but the problem is that this film wasn't supposed to be good, ok and not even great. It had to be EPIC and it wasn't.

Originally Posted by flimseycauldron

TBH I think that that was the fault of the book more than the movie

wait... WHAT?!

[flimseycauldron]

Strictly IMHO DH was my second to least favorite out of the series. I always got the feeling that Rowling had a the Battle of Hogwarts already planned and the rest was just written in kind of a paint-by-number fashion. After OoTP I had always had the feeling that Rowling was just letting the fans write the rest of the series for her. And the movies seemed more of the same. To me.

[mcjax]

:c lap::cla p: :c lap:THAT MOIVE ROCKS!!!!!!

[Queen of Wise]

Originally Posted by mcjax

:c lap::cla p: :c lap:THAT MOIVE ROCKS!!!!!!

That is a lot of smilies.......what did you like most about the movie?

[decarus]

Originally Posted by flimseycauldron

TBH I think that that was the fault of the book more than the movie

I think that the book was a good ending and made sense. It had a few issues, but not like the film. The film was just not a good end in my opinion.

I agree that there was a tension in the books that just wasn't in the film. It did not feel like a life or death moment. They created that feeling in Part 1 until the Malfoy Manor scene, but they completely failed to create that feeling in DH in my opinion.

[Justincase]

Originally Posted by flimseycauldron

Strictly IMHO DH was my second to least favorite out of the series. I always got the feeling that Rowling had a the Battle of Hogwarts already planned and the rest was just written in kind of a paint-by-number fashion. After OoTP I had always had the feeling that Rowling was just letting the fans write the rest of the series for her. And the movies seemed more of the same. To me.

IMO usually it all comes down to expectations. When I first read DH I was eleven so it's not like.. I mean really wasn't expecting anything in specific. I was too young to have theories of what might happen or that kind of hope and everything. I can't remember what I was thinking by the time but probably I was just expecting a brand new amazing Harry Potter book and probably Ron and Hermione finally getting together. It's not like I was to demanding about it by then. Probably if I had seen this film then I would've had a whole different opinion. Still I don't think I would've changed my opinion of the book if I was reading it now for the first time.

For me, it was absolutely brilliant and I didn't feel at all like after OotP JK had nothing else to tell. I really liked DH and in fact I think is my favourite of them all specially the ever awesome ending.

Then again it could be because it was the last one like I think happened to much people who loved the film. I mean, if you watched the film in the premier with the actors, or in a cinema who was making a lot of fuss and loads of fans, people in costumes etc. What I want to say is that I think most of the people who LOVED the film it was more like they LOVED they premier or the day in general when they saw it. I don't know if that made any sense...

Originally Posted by decarus

I think that the book was a good ending and made sense. It had a few issues, but not like the film. The film was just not a good end in my opinion.

I agree that there was a tension in the books that just wasn't in the film. It did not feel like a life or death moment. They created that feeling in Part 1 until the Malfoy Manor scene, but they completely failed to create that feeling in DH in my opinion.

Exactly! I mean, IMO Part 1, that is, the beginning of DH and also most of HBP were the hardest books to adapt for the screen because it wasn't the kind of movie one would film. I mean, it was a lot of unravelling things and there was very little action. HBP and a big part of DH is about answering questions where? why? when? HBP tries to understand why was Voldemort like that and how to defeat him. We didn't get to actually fight him at all. It was just pure planning and little action. And then all the camping in DH is, well it's not planning because they really don't know what to plan. I mean, they're lost and just wandering around trying to answer questions and it's more of an inside journey, of the characters, because there's no Hogwarts and no Philosopher's Stone and it's just them in the middle of a forest and is people under a lot of pressure crammed in a single room 24h and building tension and nothing else until things start unfolding themselves. Still the unfold slow. That's what I mean that it's absolutely not the kind of film one would made because what audience wants is action.

On the other hand the second part of DH, part 2, well IMO it was any action films director. This is what I tried to explain in my last post. It had EVERYTHING. I mean, a war, which is actually the best action scene you can have because there's always a lot of feeling, and it always keeps the watcher in tension and clung to what's going on. And then you have all the drama and death. But you also have humour and excitement and this feeling of 'I wanna fight for this because it's the right thing'. And then they had this war going on in a magical castle, with magic all around and creatures and the scene was just perfect! And not just that but you have the fire in the room of requirement, then epic duel between snape and mcgonagall and more and more duels, and then finding the horrocruxes, and snape revelation, and harry dying and coming back the EPIC last duel between the two forces that have been confronting each other all troughout the books. It's like there's not even one second to relax in your seat and just listen to some not important conversation. But in the cinema I had plenty of them.

It had all the things to be epic and it wasn't. It was worse than DH1 which was supposed to be waaay harder to do and waaay less incredible in the big screen.

[decarus]

I know. It was all there. The possibility to be so intense. In some way i feel like they were so worried about the rating and way too worried about it being like the book that they failed to make a good epic ending.

And it was worse the Part 1 which i did not think was possible.

[NoobTwinz5]

Originally Posted by flimseycauldron

Finally saw DH2 and I have to say that Daniel Radcliffe did his best work of the series in this film. While the trio was there Harry was the ultimate focus, as he should be. I was really disappointed in TPT because it was just too fast. Especially the part about Snape having to kill Dumbledore. It's very tricky in the book and onscreen it was almost impossible to follow.

I don't understand how it was impossible to follow. I think the book was more difficult to understand than the movie, what with Snape and Dumbledore talking back and forth about random things. The movie was a simplified version of it: Dumbledore's hand is ruined because of the ring (you can see the ring twirling and slowly falling in a clip immediately before this), Snape tells him he has a year to live, Dumbledore refers to Voldemort's plan to have Draco kill him, and then he tells Snape that [i]he[i] must kill him. It seemed pretty simple to me, but hey, that's just me.

Although, while in the book it was partly so Dumbledore would not have to suffer, in the movie it seems more so Voldemort will trust Snape entirely. They should have brought up a bit about Draco's soul and how humiliating it would be to have Dumbledore die like that.

But to the thread;

I actually liked the film, unlike everybody else on here.... Forgive me, but I HAVE read the book, in fact, just days before the movie came out, and before then, I had ALWAYS been a HUGE Harry Potter fan; I know everything.

There were of course a few minor complaints that I had, but nothing as huge as everyone else's on here.

Loved the beginning, the talks with Griphook and Ollivander, Gringotts, Snape's speech, Snape/McG duel, Voldy's speech, and the rest of the movie, in fact.

Some things I wish had been included were things like, at least SOME explanation about Dumbledore's backstory, though it would have been even more difficult since they did not say anything about it in Part 1.

I thought the Prince's Tale was great, unlike everyone else =.= I didn't find it difficult to understand, even when watching it at a neutral point of view (what may someone who has not read the book find confusing?)

Something that annoyed me, however, was the lack of talk of the Deathly Hallows. They brought it up ONCE, ONCE in the WHOLE movie, and then just tossed it aside. The information Ollivander gave Harry was useless; might as well just have had Ollivander not know anything about them, like the book! A more suiting title would be something like, Harry Potter and the Battle of Hogwarts, or Harry Potter and the Time Aberforth Explained Dumbledore's Backstory.... They talk about Dumbledore's childhood (which they did not do at all!) more than they talk about the Deathly Hallows!

I mean, the VIDEOGAME brought up the Deathly Hallows, and had a nice little talk between Harry and Dumbledore which explained it all - "The Deathly Hallows. You, Harry, are their worthy possessor, for you do not seek personal gain. You accepted death knowing there was far worse things in the living world."

Anyway, I'm rambling. But it's little things like that! I liked the movie! Even being the Harry Potter fanatic that I am! Although another thing that ****** me off was Albus having the last line! "Ready?" "Ready." I mean, come oooonn!!! Why??? Harry's had the last line in EVERY movie, and you flippin' give it to Albus Severus Potter??? He could've just nodded, after Harry asked "Ready?"!

But as to discuss, what do you think Voldemort was thinking in that little clip immediately after he casts the final Killing Curse in Malfoy Manor, after killing the room full of people after the Gringotts break-in? He just sort of stares out across the room; what was going through his mind?

[Pearl_Took]

Originally Posted by Justincase

On the other hand the second part of DH, part 2, well IMO it was any action films director. This is what I tried to explain in my last post. It had EVERYTHING. I mean, a war, which is actually the best action scene you can have because there's always a lot of feeling, and it always keeps the watcher in tension and clung to what's going on. And then you have all the drama and death. But you also have humour and excitement and this feeling of 'I wanna fight for this because it's the right thing'. And then they had this war going on in a magical castle, with magic all around and creatures and the scene was just perfect! And not just that but you have the fire in the room of requirement, then epic duel between snape and mcgonagall and more and more duels, and then finding the horrocruxes, and snape revelation, and harry dying and coming back the EPIC last duel between the two forces that have been confronting each other all troughout the books.

But all of those elements were in the final film. Including the humour! I don't know how much more epic the film battle could have been. I agree that the Battle of Hogwarts in the book is very tense and exciting, but it's also deliberately written from Harry's perspective (which of course is true of the entire series), which gives it an intimate feel (which I like). The film pretty much followed the same pattern.

I do have a mild beef about Film Voldemort's pointless chasing of Harry all around the castle. (What is it with this Dark Lord? Why doesn't he just try to take Harry out without all these silly dramatics? )

It's like there's not even one second to relax in your seat and just listen to some not important conversation. But in the cinema I had plenty of them.

There are a lot of reflective moments in the book, amidst all the exciting action, including the last half of the book ... so, again, in this respect I thought the film pretty much followed the source material.

Originally Posted by decarus

And it was worse the Part 1 which i did not think was possible.

To me Part 1 was worse. It dragged too much in the middle. It was like the story came to a complete standstill half way through.

The film series didn't really flesh out the Horcrux hunt. However, DH2 did simplify the Elder Wand business very cleanly.

[Jumpman]

I do have a mild beef about Film Voldemort's pointless chasing of Harry all around the castle. (What is it with this Dark Lord? Why doesn't he just try to take Harry out without all these silly dramatics? )

It's called being completely frustrated that this ant, who calls himself Harry Potter, is not on my level in any way and yet he won't freaking die. It's a brilliant moment in the film because you can feel the frustrating in the way Ralph plays out that particular part of the duel between them....

[decarus]

Originally Posted by Pearl_Took

To me Part 1 was worse. It dragged too much in the middle. It was like the story came to a complete standstill half way through.

The film series didn't really flesh out the Horcrux hunt. However, DH2 did simplify the Elder Wand business very cleanly.

We just have to agree to disagree because i think the exact opposite. Part 1 had very good pacing and did not drag in the middle and Part 2 made a complete mess of the explanation of why Harry lived and the wand to the point that the film didn't make any sense at all, in my opinion.

[Justincase]

Originally Posted by Pearl_Took

I don't know how much more epic the film battle could have been.

A bajillion times? I really didn't the battle. The more I think of it the more I dislike it really. I mean, the part with the protecting charm covering the castle was amazing and couldn't have been any better. That was one of those moments that made you shiver (I'm not sure if you say that in English) and IMO the whole battle should've been like that. Now ways in which the battle lacked:

First this might sound stupid but I felt it was hilarious when the armours came to live to protect the school and there were like... SIX armours! I mean... honestly. Couldn't they have make some more so it looked a bit more serious?

Then we got like two battle scenes. I mean ACTUAL battle. We get all the pre battle with neville in the bridge and the armours and the protecting spell but we get very little of real battle. Like... just the scene when Harry Ron and Hermione are running to the house by the lake.

Then most of it is very organized. Like, you get to see individual duels between two persons who are just cleanly fighting with a caution distance from the nearby duellers. It's a WAR not a duel club! SO yeah, I think the lack of havoc and chaos and confusion made it seem more unrealistic.

And then you got a lot of creatures in the books who joined the battle like Hippogriffs, thestrals, acromantulas, giants and specially house elves and I think all that would've created a way more magical ambient.

And well there are more things but I can't think of anymore now. Point is IMO it wasn't EPIC at all.

[BurrowGhoul]

Originally Posted by decarus

We just have to agree to disagree because i think the exact opposite. Part 1 had very good pacing and did not drag in the middle and Part 2 made a complete mess of the explanation of why Harry lived and the wand to the point that the film didn't make any sense at all, in my opinion.

I agree with you. I thought the first movie was more in keeping with the "feel" of the book at that point. With the second movie, I kept waiting for emotional moments that never seemed to come. I was primed to cry!

[decarus]

Originally Posted by BurrowGhoul

I agree with you. I thought the first movie was more in keeping with the "feel" of the book at that point. With the second movie, I kept waiting for emotional moments that never seemed to come. I was primed to cry!

That is probably why my disappointment is so high. I really thought i would like this film. I really thought that they would do the emotional moments, the dialogue moments, really well because HP films have always in the past had some really great quiet moments. Part 2 just didn't do it. I don't know what happened, but i am really surprised by how much i dislike it.

I don't even want to buy it. I probably will just to finish my collection. And my brother will probably want to see it so i will have to buy it before thanksgiving. I just don't even want to see it again.

[Justincase]

Originally Posted by decarus

That is probably why my disappointment is so high. I really thought i would like this film. I really thought that they would do the emotional moments, the dialogue moments, really well because HP films have always in the past had some really great quiet moments. Part 2 just didn't do it. I don't know what happened, but i am really surprised by how much i dislike it.

I don't even want to buy it. I probably will just to finish my collection. And my brother will probably want to see it so i will have to buy it before thanksgiving. I just don't even want to see it again.

Though I agree with you that it was a great disappointment I think you should give it a second chance. I liked it a bit better second time I saw it. I mean in the premier you were expecting an epic final and I think I'm right to say that we were all really excited about it and everything but seeing it again in cold from a 'neutral' position we'll probably make you feel better about it. Or at least really analyse what's that failed. I'm really looking forward to buy it to complete the collection, because of the extra features and also because I wanna see it again to really get to analyse what was right and what was wrong. It's just my opinion anyway.

[decarus]

I have seen it twice because of the reasons you state. So that i could see it in light of already knowing what is there and it was almost worse the second time around. I am going to buy it though sometime this weekend and will give it it's third viewing. It is very difficult.

[MsBinns]

Originally Posted by NoobTwinz5

I mean, the VIDEOGAME brought up the Deathly Hallows, and had a nice little talk between Harry and Dumbledore which explained it all - "The Deathly Hallows. You, Harry, are their worthy possessor, for you do not seek personal gain. You accepted death knowing there was far worse things in the living world."

They included that in the video game??? That kills me! I think this film really did let down with the explanation of the Deathly Hallows, but that's in large part because they didn't include the Hallows/Horcrux debate in DH1.

[Jumpman]

The explanation of the Hallows is done through action through out the course of Part 2. We don't need it stated that Harry is the master of death. The films have demonstrated that for us. Part 2 just puts it all together with the use of the three objects that make the Hallows.