Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.5

[boushh]

Originally Posted by ignisia

From the Snape and Dumbledore thread.



With the understandable exception of Lily, I think Severus sticks with surnames (unless there's a stray "Minerva" floating about? ) but I don't see it as a particularly bad thing. He strikes me as the type of person who prefers to maintain some level of distance, even if he feels friendship or regard for someone. Not only might this tendency be strengthened by the necessities of his spy job, but it's also just the way some people are, whether by nature or experience. Also keep in mind that most of the action occurs in his place of work, and some people like to use last names among colleagues.

I took it as a show of respect to his colleagues, most of whom were older than him by quite a bit and were his teachers at one time. Maybe I'll feel differently after my next re-read, I don't know.

He does call McGonagall by her first name in DH but by then he's headmaster so maybe that would be more appropriate since he outranks her and has to make a show of it for the benefit of his cover. IMO.

By using first names with the DEs, he is both lulling them into a false sense of security as well as putting on a smoother persona, IMHO. Although I'd make the case that his use of Bellatrix's name in "Spinner's End" is meant to be a little jab at her for not playing nice.

I agree about this pretty much. I also wonder if there is a difference because he knew them when they were school age (Lucius at least) and that has always been the way they referred to each other.

[MasterOfDeath]

One thing that made me think Snape was evil before DH was how much more cordial and natural he seemed during Spinner's End compared with how miserable and bitter he was anywhere else. I read it as Snape feeling most at home with death eaters.

After DH, I realize that Snape's true self was the Snape we see when he's at Hogwarts. He's very miserable, damaged and angry. The Snape at Spinner's End is a facade, an act.

[Charlotte_Snape]

I agree with Melaszka from the S/DD thread:

Originally Posted by Melaszka

I don't find it that surprising, given the different circumstances in which their relationships began. Lucius is a former schoolfriend, so Snape calling him and his wife by their first names seems natural to me. But there's a huge age difference between Dumbledore and Snape, Dumbledore is in a position of authority over Snape and, indeed, was actually one of his teachers when he was himself a pupil, so I think Snape calling Dumbledore "Albus" might seem as inappropriate and presumptious as calling Lucius "Malfoy" would seem cold and distant.

And I was just about to ask something regarding names (forgive me if this is a stupid question! )

Do we ever see Snape calling him anything but "The Dark Lord"??? I can't remember Snape ever calling Voldemort by name, and I know the DEs use "Dark Lord", too, but why would he not use "Voldemort" around Dumbledore???

S:"That, I think, is the Dark Lord's plan."
DD:"Lord Voldemort foresees a moment in the near future when he will not need a spy at Hogwarts?" ~DH Ch. 33

Or Harry for that matter?

H: "How come I saw through the snake's eyes if it's Voldemort's thoughts I'm sharing?'"
S: "Do not say the Dark Lord's name!" ~ OotP Ch. 24

More to the point, do you think it has something to do with this?

"Call him Voldemort, Harry. Always use the proper name for things. Fear of a name increases fear of the thing itself."~ DD, PS/SS Ch

[canismajoris]

Originally Posted by Charlotte_Snape

Do we ever see Snape calling him anything but "The Dark Lord"??? I can't remember Snape ever calling Voldemort by name, and I know the DEs use "Dark Lord", too, but why would he not use "Voldemort" around Dumbledore???

I think this is another case where consistency in habits makes life as a spy somewhat easier.

[Charlotte_Snape]

Originally Posted by canismajoris

I think this is another case where consistency in habits makes life as a spy somewhat easier.

Ah, good ol' Ockham's Razor! makes sense, thank u

[mirrormere]

Originally Posted by Charlotte_Snape

Do we ever see Snape calling him anything but "The Dark Lord"??? I can't remember Snape ever calling Voldemort by name, and I know the DEs use "Dark Lord", too, but why would he not use "Voldemort" around Dumbledore???

Quote:
S:"That, I think, is the Dark Lord's plan."
DD:"Lord Voldemort foresees a moment in the near future when he will not need a spy at Hogwarts?" ~DH Ch. 33

Quote:
H: "How come I saw through the snake's eyes if it's Voldemort's thoughts I'm sharing?'"
S: "Do not say the Dark Lord's name!" ~ OotP Ch. 24
More to the point, do you think it has something to do with this?

Quote:
"Call him Voldemort, Harry. Always use the proper name for things. Fear of a name increases fear of the thing itself."~ DD, PS/SS Ch

I think Snape knew that previously there had been a trace on Voldemort's name and that's why he didn't want Harry to get in the habit of saying LV's name, though an explanation would have useful. I suspect DD knew that too, but who can plumb some of his thought processes?

In this case it seems Harry might have been better served following Snape's advice.

Originally Posted by canismajoris

I think this is another case where consistency in habits makes life as a spy somewhat easier.

And what he said.

[MrSleepyHead]

Originally Posted by mirrormere

I think Snape knew that previously there had been a trace on Voldemort's name and that's why he didn't want Harry to get in the habit of saying LV name, though an explanation would have useful. I would have thought DD would know that to, but who can plumb some of his thought processes?

As far as we know, Voldemort's name was not Tabooed in the first war as he never controlled the Ministry of Magic. Not until he had the complete might of the Ministry behind him was he able to put a Taboo on his name (just as he and his Death Eaters had "the power to perform brutal spells without fear of identification or arrest."). Thus, I do not think Snape's offense at Harry (or himself) calling Voldemort by his name was because of a fear of a future Taboo and in the best interest of Harry. I think he used "Dark Lord" when referring to Voldemort because it was habitual, and I also think it was out of slight fear/reservation and respect (just as Voldemort accepted that Dumbledore had been a great wizard, I think Snape would have respected Voldemort's "greatness" on some level).

Originally Posted by mirrormere

In this case it seems Harry would have been better served following Snape's advice.

As I see it, Snape's ejaculations were not so much advice as they were demands. His reaction to Voldemort's name indicates, to me, that he feared it - possibly because he associated it with Lily's death. And I think he suppressed that fear when he was around Dumbledore.

[silver ink pot]

Originally Posted by canismajoris

I think this is another case where consistency in habits makes life as a spy somewhat easier.

Oh, absolutely. Plus I think that if Voldemort ever broke through the Occlumency barrier and saw a memory of Snape calling the Dark Lord "Voldemort," it would be instant death.

Also, in DH, we find out that saying Voldemort's name really is dangerous, right? It can attract him to your location, so the name was taboo. Snape was just being careful.

[MerryLore]

Originally Posted by MasterOfDeath

After DH, I realize that Snape's true self was the Snape we see when he's at Hogwarts. He's very miserable, damaged and angry. The Snape at Spinner's End is a facade, an act.

I agree - although I think he may have had fun sparring with Bellatrix, I don't think he truly cared about Narcissa or Draco, and I've always thought his showing all that favoritism to Draco was nothing but a means to an end.

I think Snape wanted what most of us want - to be loved and respected. Although we see very little of his home life in canon, I don't think he received much love or respect at home. We see someone in ill fitted clothes, his father yelling at his mother, him cowering in a corner, and even waiting at the train station for Hogwarts, his mother seemed detached from him. The only bright spot in his world was Lily - she probably showed him the only kindness he'd ever had, and he loved her.

Snape thought things would be different at Hogwarts - he was gifted and intelligent, and would be among his peers. It didn't turn out that way for him. He even lost Lily.

So, he thought things would be different with the Death Eaters. After all, he was gifted and intelligent, and they were the closest people who would interact with him (and I think they saw him as a means to an end - he WAS gifted and intelligent and would serve the cause well). Snape felt rejected by the world, and I think because of that, he was willing to turn a blind eye to what the DEs were really about.

Then Lily was targeted, he went to Dumbledore, and realized what a mistake he'd made in joining the DEs. He still felt rejected by the world, and after you're treated that way over a number of years you decide you probably deserve it. He still loved Lily, and probably felt he deserved her rejection, and he did not want to see her die. He became a spy.

Despite his best efforts, she still died.

Snape remained a spy, I suspect out of guilt and loving Lily. He never expected to be loved by anyone and never tried - after all, he had been rejected most of his life. He shut himself off emotionally from people, which is why I think he was so gifted at occulmancy. He never developed true empathy, although he'd seen it enough to fake it (such as during his interaction with Narcissa). I also don't think he would have chose teaching as a career.

Since Snape suspected he'd never be loved, and he was not willing to allow himself to love, he decided he WOULD have respect, and commanded it.

I also think he was angry with Dumbledore for having to kill him. I think he finally had some respect from his peers, for his ability to brew potions, his understanding of the dark arts which saved some lives, and I also think he was an effective, if harsh, teacher. Killing Dumbledore was going to erase all of that, and he was going to be an outcast, all over again.

The closest he came to genuinely caring about someone was Harry, when he tried to teach him Occulmancy and saw into his world. I think for once he was able to see the woman he still loved - Lily - as part of Harry. And I think that's why he gave Harry so many memories as he lay dying. But even with Harry, he kept his distance.

Snape in many ways was "miserable, damaged and angry." He never got the life he wanted - or deserved, IMHO.

[silver ink pot]

Originally Posted by MasterOfDeath

One thing that made me think Snape was evil before DH was how much more cordial and natural he seemed during Spinner's End compared with how miserable and bitter he was anywhere else. I read it as Snape feeling most at home with death eaters.

After DH, I realize that Snape's true self was the Snape we see when he's at Hogwarts. He's very miserable, damaged and angry. The Snape at Spinner's End is a facade, an act.

Spinner's End is the only time we see Snape in his own home. The reason I disagree with your point is that while I believe Snape is "acting" to a certain extent in that scene and lying to Bella, I don't think offering wine or being cordial is part of the act. I also don't think being kind to Narcissa is an act - that is just my opinion.

I think if Dumbledore or another teacher came to his door, he would offer them a drink and ask them to sit down. If he didn't, he might get the treatment that Dumbledore gave the Dursleys to show them how rude they are. JMO

We do see Snape at Hogwarts many times, interacting with the other teachers, eating at the feast dinners, drinking at Slughorn's party, even having Christmas dinner with Harry and the other kids. He's never described by Harry as having rude manners in those situations and he seems perfectly at ease. Therefore, I don't think he has to be with Death Eaters in order to act in a civilized manner.

[MrSleepyHead]

Originally Posted by silver ink pot

We do see Snape at Hogwarts many times, interacting with the other teachers, eating at the feast dinners, drinking at Slughorn's party, even having Christmas dinner with Harry and the other kids. He's never described by Harry as having rude manners in those situations and he seems perfectly at ease. Therefore, I don't think he has to be with Death Eaters in order to act in a civilized manner.

I do not think it was presented that Snape ever displayed rude manners in gathering-type situations. Instead, I thought MasterOfDeath was presenting the idea of Snape being "cordial and natural" at Spinner's End and "miserable and bitter" he was elsewhere. Neither of these moods necessarily dictate whether he displayed good or bad manners (and I agree that he was generally very mannerly) or when he was civilized or not. But I think it is a stretch to classify Snape as "perfectly at ease" during more intimate gatherings at Hogwarts:

PoA, The Firebolt “Crackers!” said Dumbledore enthusiastically, offering the end of a large silver noisemaker to Snape, who took it reluctantly and tugged. With a bang like a gunshot, the cracker flew apart to reveal a large, pointed witches hat topped with a stuffed vulture. Harry, remembering the Boggart, caught Ron’s eye and they both grinned; Snape’s mouth thinned and he pushed the hat toward Dumbledore, who swapped it for his wizard’s hat at once.

HBP, The Unbreakable Vow And to Harry’s horror, Slughorn threw out an arm and seemed to scoop Snape out of thin air toward them. “Stop skulking and come and join us, Severus!” hiccuped Slughorn happily.

From these, I would not say that Snape appeared "perfectly at ease" in these situations. He seems unenthusiastic and and much more akin to "miserable and bitter" than "cordial and natural." I would most people to act mannerly and civilized for large feasts and in more diplomatic/professional settings, but it is in more intimate settings where I think we can glimpse the true character (though, of course, Snape so often wears a mask that it can be difficult to judge what is his true character and what is his facade).

[silver ink pot]

Originally Posted by MrSleepyHead

From these, I would not say that Snape appeared "perfectly at ease" in these situations. He seems unenthusiastic and and much more akin to "miserable and bitter" than "cordial and natural." I would most people to act mannerly and civilized for large feasts and in more diplomatic/professional settings, but it is in more intimate settings where I think we can glimpse the true character (though, of course, Snape so often wears a mask that it can be difficult to judge what is his true character and what is his facade).

Snape does say a few bitter things at Slughorn's party - but at the same time, Slughorn is going on about how Harry is a whiz-kid at Potions, which is only due to Harry using the Prince's Book.

I don't see how the cracker incident is either miserable or bitter. Snape even smiles a little at a joke directed at himself (the vulture party hat). He could have said many things to Dumbledore at that moment, but he just left it alone because after all, it was Christmas dinner.

It's just my opinion that Snape acts the same way no matter where he is.

[MrSleepyHead]

Originally Posted by silver ink pot

I don't see how the cracker incident is either miserable or bitter. Snape even smiles a little at a joke directed at himself (the vulture party hat). He could have said many things to Dumbledore at that moment, but he just left it alone because after all, it was Christmas dinner.

I do not think it is an example of Snape being miserable or bitter, but I think that his mood is closer to that description than it is cordial/inviting/content/jocular/etc. I do not think Snape was feebly smiling; rather, the thinning of his mouth indicated anger, dislike, and/or irritation - just as the thinning of McGonagall's mouth often showed the same. And I agree: Snape could have said many things to Dumbledore, yet he did not. As I see it, he restrained his irritation for the sake of appearances; but, to me, that restraint shows that Snape was restraining something - his true personality - which I think was his common negative reaction to something he objected to/disliked.

Originally Posted by silver ink pot

It's just my opinion that Snape acts the same way no matter where he is.

I do agree that Snape did not alter the appearance of his personality in most situations. But I agree more with MasterOfDeath that this personality that he presented (which, I think, is his true personality) was of a more miserable, depressed, disapproving, and skulking man. But he could cover up/repress that unflattering presentation in certain situations (e.g. when he acted as a spy, during formal gatherings, etc.).

[Charlotte_Snape]

Originally Posted by silver ink pot

I also don't think being kind to Narcissa is an act - that is just my opinion.

Neither do I. Even if making the unbreakable vow was only a matter of convincing Bellatrix, I still believe Narcissa's pleas before the UV was brought up (Severus," she whispered, tears sliding down her pale cheecks. "My son... my only son...") did honestly affect him:

Snape said nothing. He looked away from the sight of her tears as though they were indecent, but he could not pretend not to hear her.

It must have struck a deep chord with Snape. Although Lily never pleaded to him for her son's life, I believe what "he could not pretend not to hear" was Lily as well, having been in a similar position to Narcissa.

No doubt some people will scoff at this idea, but I found this piece of information quite interesting:

From Wikipedia's article on Narcissus (plant):

Narcissus is a genus of mainly hardy, mostly spring-flowering, bulbs.... Daffodil is a common English name, sometimes used now for all varieties... The name Daffodil is derived from an earlier "Affodell", a variant of Asphodel.

Searches for "Daffodil" redirect to "Narcissus". It sounds like something Jo would have come across when choosing names for the characters, so perhaps she always wanted to make this parallel with Lily, and looked for a name that had a connection to Lily's.

[leah49]

The trace on Voldemort's name does not seem to have been in place until DH when Voldemort takes over the Ministry.

[WelkinCooper]

Originally Posted by MerryLore

Since Snape suspected he'd never be loved, and he was not willing to allow himself to love, he decided he WOULD have respect, and commanded it.

I also think he was angry with Dumbledore for having to kill him. I think he finally had some respect from his peers, for his ability to brew potions, his understanding of the dark arts which saved some lives, and I also think he was an effective, if harsh, teacher. Killing Dumbledore was going to erase all of that, and he was going to be an outcast, all over again.


Snape in many ways was "miserable, damaged and angry." He never got the life he wanted - or deserved, IMHO.

Much stuff deleted for space. Just wanted to say that, with a very few things I might quibble about, I think your analysis is brilliant, and perfectly on target. The last sentence is one of the primary reasons I'm such a Snape advocate.

[FurryDice]

Originally Posted by MerryLore

Since Snape suspected he'd never be loved, and he was not willing to allow himself to love, he decided he WOULD have respect, and commanded it.

In that case, I don't think Snape understood the difference between respect and fear/intimidation. Commanding respect is not possible - one can command obedience, and on an extreme, one can instill fear and wariness but respect must be earned. Otherwise, it's not true respect, IMO. One can show deference, but that's not the same as respect, either, IMO. It's more like lip service if it's not accompanied by genuine, unforced respect.

I also think he was angry with Dumbledore for having to kill him. I think he finally had some respect from his peers, for his ability to brew potions, his understanding of the dark arts which saved some lives, and I also think he was an effective, if harsh, teacher. Killing Dumbledore was going to erase all of that, and he was going to be an outcast, all over again.

I think being forced to kill Dumbledore was a hugely important turning point for Snape. He no longer had Dumbledore's support. He had to make his own way - he had to face the reaction he would have faced sixteen years previously if Dumbledore had not vouched for him and kept his actions with the prophecy a secret. I think that may have pushed him to reflect on his actions a lot more than he had previously done, and on their consequences for people other than himself.

Snape in many ways was "miserable, damaged and angry." He never got the life he wanted - or deserved, IMHO.

Nor did a lot of innocent people who were harmed by Voldemort and his Death Eaters.

[NiteShade]

Originally Posted by FurryDice

In that case, I don't think Snape understood the difference between respect and fear/intimidation. Commanding respect is not possible - one can command obedience, and on an extreme, one can instill fear and wariness but respect must be earned. Otherwise, it's not true respect, IMO. One can show deference, but that's not the same as respect, either, IMO. It's more like lip service if it's not accompanied by genuine, unforced respect.

I agree that it wasn't true respect...but Snape was, as Dumbledore had put it, hurt "beyond repair". IMO sometimes when people are deeply hurt like that, they were so desperate for what they craved (respect, dignity, love, whatever) that they actually set out to "get it" for themselves. Now the method they use might be the wrong way to do it, but their broken heart needed comfort (this is especially true when the others around the person doesn't care about him/her much). I think this is the case with Snape. (does anyone get what I'm saying here? ... )

I don't know if anyone here saw the children's book named "The Tale of Despereaux"...in that book the character Roscuro was very much like Snape in that sense. Here's a paragragh from chapter 22 of that book that illustrate my point quite nicely:

"I will have something beautiful," he said aloud. "I am a rat, but I will have something beautiful. I will have a crown of my own." He picked up the spoon. He put it on his head.
"Yes," said Roscuro. "I will have something beautiful. And I will have revenge. Both things. Somehow."

There are those hearts, reader, that never mend again once they are broken. Or if they do mend, they heal themselves in a crooked and lopsided way, as if sewn together by a careless craftsman. Such was the fate of Chiaroscuro (note: Chiaroscuro and Roscuro is the same character). His heart was broken. Picking up the spoon and placing it on his head, speaking of revenge, these things helped him to put his heart together again. But it was, alas, put together wrong.

P.S.: The only difference there is that Snape's heart did mend...later...IMHO.

[LoonyLuna22]

Niteshade: I totally get what you're saying! Snape was robbed of so much in his life, and he seemed to handle this by commanding the respect of his students. He couldn't force respect when he was in school, but as a teacher he was in prime position to earn what he was due, even if attained in the wrong way.
Perhaps he feared becoming one of those teachers that are mocked and ridiculed by their students, which would bring back haunting memories of his childhood. It's clear that he still has some of the qualities that he was picked on for in the past: big nose, looked like an overgrown bat, (J.K. Rowling's words, not mine) and he feared his students would take advantage of him if he didn't put up his defenses (and unfortunately, put some of them down) first.

Originally Posted by MerryLore

Snape in many ways was "miserable, damaged and angry." He never got the life he wanted - or deserved, IMHO.

agreed

[LoonyLuna22]

Also, despite his cruel remarks, he went out to save the trio from Black (back when he thought Black was a murderer) beneath the Whomping Willow. I know some of you might feel that he did that out of vegence for Black, but the point is he went out of his way to save them when he could have left it to Dumbledore.