Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.6

[sparrowinwinter]

Originally Posted by kittling

I really don't think he had to know that the maruders were Animagi to know that the names the map used were nicknames the four used for each other - all he had to do was hear them use them while they were at school and judging by what Harry saw in Snapes Worst Memory they used those nicknames habitually.

So no I don't think he was guessing at all but I don't think he new they were Animagi either

I don't remember them using those nicknames in Snape's worst memory, but my memory tends to fail me when I most need it so I think you might be right.

As for the Animagi thing, I'm sure he didn't know, or else he would have told Dumbledore that Sirius might try to get into Hogwarts as a dog.

[iluvseverus]

Originally Posted by sparrowinwinter

As for the Animagi thing, I'm sure he didn't know, or else he would have told Dumbledore that Sirius might try to get into Hogwarts as a dog.

But he knew about Lupin's 'furry little problem', wouldn't he have guessed that the Marauderers would have to be Animagi, to be able to hang around with Lupin at 'that time of the month' without getting hurt. He probably suspected something of the kind and since he wasn't sure, he didn't tell Dumbledore.

[HedwigOwl]

Originally Posted by iluvseverus

But he knew about Lupin's 'furry little problem', wouldn't he have guessed that the Marauderers would have to be Animagi, to be able to hang around with Lupin at 'that time of the month' without getting hurt. He probably suspected something of the kind and since he wasn't sure, he didn't tell Dumbledore.

I think Snape would have mentioned it to Dumbledore even if he only suspected it. His hatred for Sirius and James in particular would have been motivation in my opinion. So I don't think Snape had a clue about it.

[ignisia]

There was also the little problem of Sirius being a potential threat to Harry. That, IMO, would have been a much more potent motivation to tell DD of any threat than his hatred for Sirius.

[TreacleTartlet]

Originally Posted by sparrowinwinter

I don't remember them using those nicknames in Snape's worst memory, but my memory tends to fail me when I most need it so I think you might be right.

Yes, they do use their nicknames in SWM. Both Lupin and Sirius are referred to by their nicknames when they are all talking together. Also during their attack on Snape, Sirius calls James, Prongs.

"I wouldn't go out with you if it was a choice betwen you and the giant squid,"said Lily.
"Bad luck, Prongs," said Sirius briskly and turned back to Snape.

So it seems that they did use their nicknames and that Snape possibly knew of them.

[snapes_witch]

Originally Posted by sparrowinwinter

Okay guys, this is going a bit off topic

So I have another subject to discuss. In PoA, after he was insulted by the Marauders map he called for Lupin. I wonder why, he didn't know that Sirius, James and Pettigrew were Animagi so I don't know if the names Moony, Padfoot, Wormtail and Prongs meant much to him. He seemed to suspect that Lupin might know something about the map though. He asks him if he doesn't think Harry got it "directly from the manufacturers" and I think he's suggesting that Lupin gave it to him. Could he have seen the Marauders use it at school and remembered it? Or did he, as usual, guess right?

Snape thought the map was a dark arts object so he called for Lupin, the DADA professor.

[sparrowinwinter]

Originally Posted by iluvseverus

But he knew about Lupin's 'furry little problem', wouldn't he have guessed that the Marauderers would have to be Animagi, to be able to hang around with Lupin at 'that time of the month' without getting hurt. He probably suspected something of the kind and since he wasn't sure, he didn't tell Dumbledore.

I think he would have told DD had he suspected Sirius was an Animagus. There was too much at stake, he had sworn to protect Harry after all, no matter how little he liked him. Plus he hated Sirius so if he had any information that might help catch him, he wouldn't have withheld it.

Originally Posted by TreacleTartlet

Yes, they do use their nicknames in SWM. Both Lupin and Sirius are referred to by their nicknames when they are all talking together. Also during their attack on Snape, Sirius calls James, Prongs.

"I wouldn't go out with you if it was a choice betwen you and the giant squid,"said Lily.
"Bad luck, Prongs," said Sirius briskly and turned back to Snape.

So it seems that they did use their nicknames and that Snape possibly knew of them.

My bad then

Originally Posted by snapes_witch

Snape thought the map was a dark arts object so he called for Lupin, the DADA professor.

Nah, I doubt that. He was familiar enough with the Dark Arts to deal with it himself if that was the problem. I daresay he was more capable than Lupin. I think he wanted to see his reaction. What puzzles me is why he let Lupin and Harry "Off the hook" so easily

[mirrormere]

Originally Posted by sparrowinwinter

As for the Animagi thing, I'm sure he didn't know, or else he would have told Dumbledore that Sirius might try to get into Hogwarts as a dog.

Snape seemed surprised when Sirius transformed from a dog in the hospital wing at the end of GoF.

I think that when he mentions Harry possibly procured the map "directly from the manufacturers" he knows Lupin was involved. Obviously he knew the Marauder's nicknames or they would not have turned up in his memories. I think saying it was Dark magic was just an excuse to confront Lupin. I think Snape knew more about Dark magic than Remus ever dreamed of.

[HedwigOwl]

Originally Posted by TreacleTartlet

Yes, they do use their nicknames in SWM. Both Lupin and Sirius are referred to by their nicknames when they are all talking together. Also during their attack on Snape, Sirius calls James, Prongs.

"I wouldn't go out with you if it was a choice betwen you and the giant squid,"said Lily.
"Bad luck, Prongs," said Sirius briskly and turned back to Snape.

So it seems that they did use their nicknames and that Snape possibly knew of them.

He definitely knew of the nicknames, but I'm not sure he knew what they meant. But he definitely recognized the names on the map when it started to insult him, which is why he called Lupin....he may have thought it could get Lupin into trouble if he gave Harry the map. But I really don't think that Snape knew -- until the confrontation in the shrieking shack -- that the other marauders were anamagi. If he had known, he would have told Dumbledore about it.

[sparrowinwinter]

Originally Posted by mirrormere

Snape seemed surprised when Sirius transformed from a dog in the hospital wing at the end of GoF.

I think that when he mentions Harry possibly procured the map "directly from the manufacturers" he knows Lupin was involved. Obviously he knew the Marauder's nicknames or they would not have turned up in his memories. I think saying it was Dark magic was just an excuse to confront Lupin. I think Snape knew more about Dark magic than Remus ever dreamed of.

That's my point exactly. But since you mentioned it, I'm surprised Snape was surprised () when Sirius transformed in GoF because a year previously, he had heard the story about him becoming an Animagus

Originally Posted by HedwigOwl

He definitely knew of the nicknames, but I'm not sure he knew what they meant. But he definitely recognized the names on the map when it started to insult him, which is why he called Lupin....he may have thought it could get Lupin into trouble if he gave Harry the map. But I really don't think that Snape knew -- until the confrontation in the shrieking shack -- that the other marauders were anamagi. If he had known, he would have told Dumbledore about it.

Yes, I agree, he didn't know about them being Animagi until the Shrieking Shack.

[TreacleTartlet]

Originally Posted by HedwigOwl

He definitely knew of the nicknames, but I'm not sure he knew what they meant. But he definitely recognized the names on the map when it started to insult him, which is why he called Lupin....he may have thought it could get Lupin into trouble if he gave Harry the map.But I really don't think that Snape knew -- until the confrontation in the shrieking shack -- that the other marauders were anamagi. If he had known, he would have told Dumbledore about it.

I agree. I don't think he did understand the significance of their nicknames.

[arithmancer]

Originally Posted by sparrowinwinter

That's my point exactly. But since you mentioned it, I'm surprised Snape was surprised () when Sirius transformed in GoF because a year previously, he had heard the story about him becoming an Animagus

I don't think he was surprised because this was the first time he realized Sirius was an Animagus. I think he was surprised because he did not realize Sirius was in the room until Sirius changed back into human form.

[sparrowinwinter]

Well yeah but he must have wondered what the giant dog was doing there...

[arithmancer]

Originally Posted by sparrowinwinter

Well yeah but he must have wondered what the giant dog was doing there...

Sure, but other answers are possible. Sirius was not all that likely to be at Hogwarts as far as Snape knew - he could even have been out of the country (as it is suggested he was at the start of GoF). If Snape had not given the matter thought, he might not even have guessed that Sirius's Animagus form was a dog. (If he had, and was familiar with terms used by the British for the Grim, he'd also know the size and color, but we don't know htat he did. I would take his surprise to indicate that he either had not thought much about it, or knew no meaning for "Padfoot" aside from "a weord noickname for Sirius").

I want to clarify that my interest in the meaning of this moment goes beyond pedantry. I think it is a character moment that helps build my picture of Snape. What it tells me is that Snape's seemingly over-the-top desire for revenge against Sirius, as seen in PoA, was all about Lily. If he was not Lily's betrayer, then Snape was no longer spending much mental and emotional energy considering him in his absence (hence his failure to brood over what Sirius's Anomagus form might be... )

[wolfbrother]

Originally Posted by sparrowinwinter

That's my point exactly. But since you mentioned it, I'm surprised Snape was surprised () when Sirius transformed in GoF because a year previously, he had heard the story about him becoming an Animagus

Did Snape know about it though ? I don't have the book with me but I don't think anyone told Snape that Sirius was an animagi and Sirius mentions in GoF that the trio and Dumbledore are the only ones who know that he was an animagus.

[TreacleTartlet]

Originally Posted by wolfbrother

Did Snape know about it though ? I don't have the book with me but I don't think anyone told Snape that Sirius was an animagi and Sirius mentions in GoF that the trio and Dumbledore are the only ones who know that he was an animagus.

Snape entered the Shrieking Shack under Harry's invisibility cloak, in time to hear Lupin tell the trio the story of how they became Animagi.

However, as at the time Snape believes Black to be a murderer, and suspects Lupin of helping him, he possibly thought that it was just a tale to gain Harry's trust.

[sparrowinwinter]

Originally Posted by arithmancer

Sure, but other answers are possible. Sirius was not all that likely to be at Hogwarts as far as Snape knew - he could even have been out of the country (as it is suggested he was at the start of GoF). If Snape had not given the matter thought, he might not even have guessed that Sirius's Animagus form was a dog. (If he had, and was familiar with terms used by the British for the Grim, he'd also know the size and color, but we don't know htat he did. I would take his surprise to indicate that he either had not thought much about it, or knew no meaning for "Padfoot" aside from "a weord noickname for Sirius").

I want to clarify that my interest in the meaning of this moment goes beyond pedantry. I think it is a character moment that helps build my picture of Snape. What it tells me is that Snape's seemingly over-the-top desire for revenge against Sirius, as seen in PoA, was all about Lily. If he was not Lily's betrayer, then Snape was no longer spending much mental and emotional energy considering him in his absence (hence his failure to brood over what Sirius's Anomagus form might be... )

Well I'm sure that Snape's animosity towards Sirius was not only because he thought Sirius had betrayed Lily. That was just one more reason to hate him. And maybe at that time, Snape still thought that Sirius was responsible for betraying Lily.I don't think we are told in the book if he did know the truth or not. So if he didn't know, he would have had reason to think hard about what Sirius' Animagus was, in case he'd ever, by chance see him. (That sounds a bit far fetched I guess but why not cover every possibility )

Originally Posted by wolfbrother

Did Snape know about it though ? I don't have the book with me but I don't think anyone told Snape that Sirius was an animagi and Sirius mentions in GoF that the trio and Dumbledore are the only ones who know that he was an animagus.

He did know because he had heard Lupin tell Harry and the others.

Originally Posted by TreacleTartlet

Snape entered the Shrieking Shack under Harry's invisibility cloak, in time to hear Lupin tell the trio the story of how they became Animagi.

However, as at the time Snape believes Black to be a murderer, and suspects Lupin of helping him, he possibly thought that it was just a tale to gain Harry's trust.

Hm, that's a good theory but I don't think he would have thought it to be just something Lupin had made up. I don't think he would have put such thing past Sirius and James. He might have even suspected as a boy that there was something he was missing about them. So I really doubt that he didn't believe that what Lupin said about them being Animagi wasn't true, especially that Lupin was sticking to the story (The part about Sirius' little prank and him being a werewolf) that Snape also knew.

[arithmancer]

Originally Posted by sparrowinwinter

Well I'm sure that Snape's animosity towards Sirius was not only because he thought Sirius had betrayed Lily. That was just one more reason to hate him.

In PoA it seemed he wanted him dead (though he did not go the extra mile to make it happen ) I think it is less clear he still did in other books. Personally, I do not believe he would have shaken Sirius's hand at the end of GoF no matter what Dumbledore wanted, if he had still believed Sirius was the traitor, so it is my opinion that at some point, offpage, Albus straightened him out on this point.

[sparrowinwinter]

Originally Posted by arithmancer

In PoA it seemed he wanted him dead (though he did not go the extra mile to make it happen ) I think it is less clear he still did in other books. Personally, I do not believe he would have shaken Sirius's hand at the end of GoF no matter what Dumbledore wanted, if he had still believed Sirius was the traitor, so it is my opinion that at some point, offpage, Albus straightened him out on this point.

That is very possible, maybe Albus did tell him what really happened that day when Sirius escaped and told him about Pettigrew. Then again, maybe not, maybe he only found out after returning to Voldy and seeing Pettigrew.

Yes...he didn't appear to want Sirius dead so much in OotP, though I think he was very much enjoying himself while provoking and snarking at him and he definitely didn't shed a tear when he died. In fact, he might have even made a mental note to thank Bellatrix. I'm just joking, but bottom line, he really really really really hated Sirius.

[arithmancer]

Originally Posted by sparrowinwinter

That is very possible, maybe Albus did tell him what really happened that day when Sirius escaped and told him about Pettigrew. Then again, maybe not, maybe he only found out after returning to Voldy and seeing Pettigrew.

I'll respond to this on the Albus and Snape thread. :0