Read-A-Thon: Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them

[merrymarge]

Oh, I never thought of that. I just thought like Harry, that Draco was a DE.

Voldemort searched among the school records and trophies to see if his father was a wizard, but he finally realised that he wasn't a wizard. Is it possible to go to Hogwarts and not excel at anything? Not everyone likes to play Quidditch, and aside from the Gobstones' club, we don't know how anyone would succeed at anything special. Not everyone is a prefect or Head Boy/Girl. Not everyone would be captain of the Qudditch team.

[horcrux4]

Originally Posted by merrymarge

Voldemort searched among the school records and trophies to see if his father was a wizard, but he finally realised that he wasn't a wizard. Is it possible to go to Hogwarts and not excel at anything? Not everyone likes to play Quidditch, and aside from the Gobstones' club, we don't know how anyone would succeed at anything special. Not everyone is a prefect or Head Boy/Girl. Not everyone would be captain of the Qudditch team.

Would the school records have lists of alumni? You wouldn't have had to excel at anything to be on those. On the other hand, Voldemort may well have assumed that his father would have been as brilliant as himself and would have won all manner of awards. I don't think he'd have taken kindly to a wizard father who didn't excel at anything! Do we know what else Voldemort won apart from the trophy for services to the school? Did he play Quidditch?

[Goddess_Clio]

Originally Posted by horcrux4

Would the school records have lists of alumni? You wouldn't have had to excel at anything to be on those.

Beacuse at Hogwarts you receive an education that affects your future educational and employment opportunities I would assume there must be some method of recording a student's academic achievements and then calling them up should they ever be questioned (say, at age 40 you decide to become an auror but you must first prove you passed all the necessary OWL and NEWT testing at Hogwarts).

Filch's records of wrong-doing seem separate from the academic records and are kept for his own use.

On the other hand, Voldemort may well have assumed that his father would have been as brilliant as himself and would have won all manner of awards. I don't think he'd have taken kindly to a wizard father who didn't excel at anything!

Me neither

Do we know what else Voldemort won apart from the trophy for services to the school? Did he play Quidditch?

I don't think we're told that Tom Riddle won any other awards, trophies or received any other commendations; he might have been too busy plotting his imminent rise to power and deciding who he wanted to kill with his basilisk to waste time on silly things like quidditch.

[xhanax315]

How would he just have access to the school records? I can see him looking through the trophy room, but where else could he have looked?

[Goddess_Clio]

Originally Posted by xhanax315

How would he just have access to the school records? I can see him looking through the trophy room, but where else could he have looked?

The castle is described as being enormous and I doubt very much that Harry explored all of it; he certainly didn't explore all of it on page.

For all we know the room that Nick held his Death Day party in was once the records room until the great mass of files outgrew it and it was moved.

Perhaps the records room is one of the rooms called forth by the room of requirement which has pretty much unlimited capacity to grow with the amount of files added every year and Harry never found it because he was never looking for it.

Perhaps the records room is just a room like any other off a corridor and we don't know about it simply because Harry never went into that room.

[merrymarge]

I can picture Tom turning on the charm to a teacher to let him see any school records.
Many of the teachers liked him. Hermione found out about Snape's mother through past issues of the Daily Prophet which was located in the school library.
I didn't realise that he would expect his father to be brillant like he was.
Still, I am wondering if you can go through a school like Hogwarts and not be recognized for anything. If your house won the House Cup, they wouldn't list the names of the students who were in that particular house.

[xhanax315]

What about that room that held the Death Day party? Was that in the book?

[merrymarge]

the room for the Deathday Party was located in one of the larger dungeons. I don't think there would be any records stored there because it would be damp.
Hermione thought the library failed her for the first time when she couldn't find anything about Horcruxes, but the library failed her in GOF when she couldn't find anything to help Haryy breathe under water for the second tri-wizard task, so it was really the second time.

[horcrux4]

Originally Posted by merrymarge

Hermione thought the library failed her for the first time when she couldn't find anything about Horcruxes, but the library failed her in GOF when she couldn't find anything to help Haryy breathe under water for the second tri-wizard task, so it was really the second time.

That's true. It's also odd that they didn't come across the bubble head charm that Fleur and Cedric used. But that's another book!

[merrymarge]

When Dumbledore showed Harry the memory of Tom Riddle asking for the teaching position, the Pensieve wasn't there. I wonder when Dumbledore acquired it.
I like the fact that Dumbledore is showing Harry the different memories of Tom Riddle's story. This shows Tom as he was. Memories are tricky, people forget things, or sometimes what you thought happened didn't really happen the way you remember them, but with the Pensieve, you get a more accurate reading of the important memories. Little by little we see who Tom Riddle was and why he chose to become Voldemort.

[merrymarge]

Has the thread died? I am having trouble coming up with new stuff to post.

[Sereena]

Originally Posted by merrymarge

Little by little we see who Tom Riddle was and why he chose to become Voldemort.

I think the problems with the memories from a narrative point of view are twofold. First, we don't actually find out anything which can help us understand Voldemort better IMO. As far as we know, he was born funny and has been evil ever since without any explanation besides the fact that he came from a crazy family. Any character development we might have thought Voldemort will get goes right out the window as there is no particular incident in his life, influence or person which made him who he was or which could have made him turn out differently. One memory of Snape's, for instance SWM, tells us more about the character than all the Voldemort memories in HBP.

Second, these memories don't help Harry much either. All he needed to know could have been told to him in one evening: Voldemort wants to be immortal, has 7 made horcruxes and most likely hid them in glamouros objects. Voila! Furthermore, Harry doesn't find out things that could have actually helped him, like for instance how Horcruxes are destroyed, which DEs Voldemort is closest too and likely to have entrusted with a Horcrux, how 7 as the most powerful magical number influences the Horcruxes (does it make them more powerful, harder to destroy, etc?) and which type of dark magic could be guarding them. I think these would have been more interesting things for Harry to know then whom Voldemort's mother was in love with and how Voldemort hung bunnies as a schoolboy. Just my opinion of course and I hope I'm not jumping too far ahead in the book.

[horcrux4]

Originally Posted by merrymarge

Has the thread died? I am having trouble coming up with new stuff to post.

I've completely lost track of which chapter we are on!

[merrymarge]

from the title I think Chap 25-27.
I knew Draco had the Pervian Darkness powder, but is it possible the Room turned everything black because someone else was in the room? In other word, Draco didn't cause the room to go dark when Professor Trelawney tried to get into the room, and maybe she hit up an invisible shield that prevented her from entering. The magic of the Room? The room itself is unusual, so I just wondered.

[MrSleepyHead]

Originally Posted by horcrux4

Do we know what else Voldemort won apart from the trophy for services to the school?

In answer:

CoS, Ch. 13, The Very Secret Diary Riddle’s burnished gold shield was tucked away in a corner cabinet. It didn’t carry details of why it had been given to him (“Good thing, too, or it’d be even bigger and I’d still be polishing it,” said Ron). However, they did find Riddle’s name on an old Medal for Magical Merit, and on a list of old Head Boys.

Originally Posted by Goddess_Clio

The castle is described as being enormous and I doubt very much that Harry explored all of it; he certainly didn't explore all of it on page.

True, but I think the most likely location for school records would be the library: "there was the sheer size of the library; tens of thousands of books; thousands of shelves; hundreds of narrow rows. (SS, Ch. 12)" Plus the Restricted Section. Many libraries have vast reference sections, and I would expect Hogwarts to be no different. With such a long history, I tend to think the library would have a huge source material of references in the library - accessible to interested students (very few, I would imagine!). Of course, Hermione, in CoS, found Tom Riddle's name on a list of old Head Boys in the Trophy Room, so I do not doubt that the Trophy Room acts as a record storehouse as well. As far as records, I do not mean grades or O.W.L. scores, but just tallies of students, achievements, alumni, etc. However, from Dumbledore's words ("shields in the trophy room, on the lists of prefects in the old school records, even in the books of Wizarding history"), it does not seem that Hogwarts had an easily accessible store of old yearbooks!

Originally Posted by merrymarge

Hermione thought the library failed her for the first time when she couldn't find anything about Horcruxes, but the library failed her in GOF when she couldn't find anything to help Haryy breathe under water for the second tri-wizard task, so it was really the second time.

Perhaps one could also say the library failed her when they were searching for Nicolas Flamel in SS/PS (they did not find his name until the Chocolate Frog card), but some say that she found the rest of the information from a checked out library book, so I suppose it is debatable!

Originally Posted by Sereena

I think the problems with the memories from a narrative point of view are twofold.

I enjoyed your analysis, and I quite agree (there is actually a whole thread dedicated to this topic: What exactly was the point of all that Voldy backstory in HBP?). There was certainly more relevant information that would have helped Harry more in his quest in DH, but I do not think the Voldemort memories were irrelevant. Firstly, I think we have to realize that Dumbledore was re-investigating these memories and drawing conclusions. And he was still lacking one key memory to absolutely confirm his suspicions. Also, I would say that Dumbledore showed Harry these memories for several reasons: to humanize Voldemort for Harry, look for clues for Voldemort's actions, look for weaknesses, and search for important locations and objects for the Horcrux hunt (just think of the memories we saw and how relevant they all were to the Horcruxes. The orphanage, even, was at least a starting point for Harry's search in DH).

Originally Posted by merrymarge

I knew Draco had the Pervian Darkness powder, but is it possible the Room turned everything black because someone else was in the room? In other word, Draco didn't cause the room to go dark when Professor Trelawney tried to get into the room, and maybe she hit up an invisible shield that prevented her from entering. The magic of the Room? The room itself is unusual, so I just wondered.

I am not sure about this. We know that Dobby entered the Room while the D.A. was in it in OotP, and the Room did not turn black. So I think Draco certainly used his Darkness Powder here. And, again, when he brought the Death Eaters in. And I think him using it in the Trelawney scene supports the idea that he had exhausted his supply, thereby instigating the battle underneath the Astronomy Tower.

Chapter 25: The Seer Overheard

After Hermione (correctly) produced Eileen Prince's connection to the Half-Blood Prince, was everyone placated by Harry's response: "I can tell it’s not a girl. I can just tell." It reminds me of Harry's non-canon line in the film, "I just know" (about Draco cursing Katie). Looks likes Snape's film criticism may not be so far off!

Hermione was going to check Eileen's name in old Potions records (here, again, pops up Hogwarts records. Looks like there is a stock of them somewhere - the library, again, is my guess). Do you think Eileen Prince was good at Potions (and, even, the Dark Arts)? If not, where did Snape get all his prowess? Sirius said that Snape knew more spells upon coming than most advanced students. Though hyperbolic, do you think he got all that from Eileen, or from personal study?

I love the foreshadowing with the Lightning-Struck Tower. Even coming from Trelawney, it was a beautiful set up for the upcoming chapter.

Did anyone else share Harry's shock when we finally learned it was Snape who had overheard Trelawney? "Waves of shock crashed over him, wave after wave, obliterating everything except the information that had been kept from him for so long..." I know that I felt numb after reading that last phrase by Trelawney.

[horcrux4]

Originally Posted by MrSleepyHead

After Hermione (correctly) produced Eileen Prince's connection to the Half-Blood Prince, was everyone placated by Harry's response: "I can tell it’s not a girl. I can just tell." It reminds me of Harry's non-canon line in the film, "I just know" (about Draco cursing Katie). Looks likes Snape's film criticism may not be so far off!

When I read it, I was inclined to agree with Harry - the kind of spells the HBP invented sounded more boyish than girlish - although having said that I'm not sure what sort of spells I'd have expected a girl to invent. As far as the annotations to the potions are concerned though that could have been someone of either sex.

Hermione was going to check Eileen's name in old Potions records (here, again, pops up Hogwarts records. Looks like there is a stock of them somewhere - the library, again, is my guess). Do you think Eileen Prince was good at Potions (and, even, the Dark Arts)? If not, where did Snape get all his prowess? Sirius said that Snape knew more spells upon coming than most advanced students. Though hyperbolic, do you think he got all that from Eileen, or from personal study?

Hermione found a newspaper clipping about Eileen later so it looks as though there were plenty of records of various types in the library. Hard to guess where Snape got his abilities with the Dark Arts. Were books on them generally available? If so would Eileen have had any, or kept any she had after her marriage with a Muggle? She could have been good at Potions but if she'd been exceptional I'd have expected Slughorn to have taken a greater interest in Snape than he appeared to do. (He was constantly telling Harry how good his mother had been.) Hermione didn't seem to come up with anything about Eileen from her study of old Potions records, so perhaps Snape was just naturally gifted.

I love the foreshadowing with the Lightning-Struck Tower. Even coming from Trelawney, it was a beautiful set up for the upcoming chapter.

It also showed that Trelawney was better at card reading than we often give her credit for. She even spotted the card about the dark haired young man when Harry was hiding from her. Her problem was that her interpretation of what she turned up was often wrong.

Did anyone else share Harry's shock when we finally learned it was Snape who had overheard Trelawney? "Waves of shock crashed over him, wave after wave, obliterating everything except the information that had been kept from him for so long..." I know that I felt numb after reading that last phrase by Trelawney.

That revelation came right out of the blue to me! I'd never suspected that it might have been Snape who heard the prophecy and took it to Voldemort.

[merrymarge]

A lot of people don't give Professor Trelawney credit for making predictions. They just think she was a joke and that's why she took to drinking cooking sherry.
I know this isn't part of the chapter, but I wonder if anyone would have objected to Sybil's drinking sherry. Why did she have to hide it?
Why did Ginny have to lead Harry away from Dumbledore's body? Why not Hermione?

[ajna]

Originally Posted by merrymarge

A lot of people don't give Professor Trelawney credit for making predictions. They just think she was a joke and that's why she took to drinking cooking sherry.
I know this isn't part of the chapter, but I wonder if anyone would have objected to Sybil's drinking sherry. Why did she have to hide it?
Why did Ginny have to lead Harry away from Dumbledore's body? Why not Hermione?

Well, I don't think it was the Sherry per se, but the excess of it she worried about.

Not sure I understand the second part about why Hermione over Ginny.

[merrymarge]

I was curious as to why Ginny lead Harry away from Dumbledore's body instead of Hermione. Hermione was there for everything. But, maybe Ron was comforting her.

[GrimeldaDursley]

This is a plot device to more or less confirm who will be with who.