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Do you think Voldemort knows that Snape is a spy?

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Old July 17th, 2004, 5:37 am
Darkillness  Female.gif Darkillness is offline
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Originally Posted by lorna
Could someone post where this quote about not feeling sorry for Snape is. I know she said we shouldn't think him too nice, that we should keep an eye on him (like anyone wouldn't) etc but I don't remember this particular quote from Rowling.
Got it!! It's at http://www.quick-quote-quill.org/art...rthall-fry.htm (Gotta love Quick-Quotes!!) Here's what it says.
SF: Where as most of the character, like Snape for example, are very hard to
love but there's a sort of ambiguity I think is probably the best word you
can't quite decide, there's something rather sad about Snape as well,
something very lonely and you kind of, although he turns out to of course
have such a wicked past and it's fascinating to watch how he you know, in
the first book we thought he was the evil one and a aprt form Voldemort the
most evil and in the second we thought that and slowly we just get this idea
that maybe he's not so bad after all

JKR: Yeees. You shouldn't think he's too nice, let me just say that.

SF: Right I shall bear that in mind. Worth watching Serverus Snape

JKR: He's worth keeping and eye on, definitely
Yes, I definitely agree with Voldemort is vain and well, forgetful, but he's not stupid. I think he only got excited about the pheonix tears and priori incantatem and Lily's sacrifice (remember, both times he thought he was finally going to get rid of that boy that cut a rift in his plans) and forgot, which shows Harry how not to behave based on emotions. Voldemort got reckless, and Harry needs to learn to control his emotions, like Snape warned him. Which brings back the original question (I like to ramble ) I think either Snape is one heck of a powerful wizard to pull the wool over Voldemort's eyes and Dumbledore's eyes for that matter or both know that he's acting as a medium and are using him as a sort of battle of wits to see who can outLegilimens outsmart outspy who.

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Old July 17th, 2004, 5:42 am
jstanothaname35  Female.gif jstanothaname35 is offline
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didnt it say somwhere in the books about dumbledore being a skilled master of occlumency or something not as good as voldemort but pretty good...wouldnt that mean that he could almost always tell if someone was lying to him or not? it makes sense to me then he would have sit down with snape and asked him discreetly if he was in a league with voldemort....but i dunno...

Old July 17th, 2004, 8:30 am
wbp9999  Male.gif wbp9999 is offline
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I think that Snape is excellent at Occlumency and Legillimency, and that he just wasn't trying as hard as he could to keep Harry out. I think that Snape never thought that Harry would be able to get past his most meager defences. After all, no matter what you say, I really don't think anyone can call Snape humble.

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Old July 17th, 2004, 8:48 am
Tara Williams  Female.gif Tara Williams is offline
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Originally Posted by jstanothaname35
didnt it say somwhere in the books about dumbledore being a skilled master of occlumency or something not as good as voldemort but pretty good...wouldnt that mean that he could almost always tell if someone was lying to him or not? it makes sense to me then he would have sit down with snape and asked him discreetly if he was in a league with voldemort....but i dunno...
In CoS, Dumbledore asks both Harry and Tom if they have something they want to share. This is suggestive that he is a very powerful occulumencist. I feel that he and Snape have had that little chat and Dumbledore knows he is truly working on the side of right.


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Old July 17th, 2004, 8:54 am
DailyProphet  Male.gif DailyProphet is offline
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This is a really touchy subject. I have often wondered which side Snape really is for. My thoughts originally were that Snape really has come to Dumbledore's side and is completely loyal. But after reading JKR's cryptic quote I am questioning myself. It would make sense for Voldemort to know that Snape has possibly betrayed him. He isn't an idiot, in fact, he is very powerful. In a sense I would think that Voldemort would be using Snape if Snape is really a "spy."

On the other hand, It has been said in the book, I can't remember who (Moody?) That Dumbledore shouldn't give second chances to anyone. Could this be a possibly hint? It is very possible that Snape has been loyal to Voldemort this entire time. So loyal that he has befriended Dumbledore and even looked out for Harry from time to time so he can possibly get deeper into what The Order is plotting.

Argh!! it's all so confusing!

Old July 17th, 2004, 8:57 am
FredWeasleyJr  Male.gif FredWeasleyJr is offline
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its obvious that snape is great at both legilimensy and occlumency so it could possibly be that he is on voldemorts side and is using his occlumency skills to shield dumbledore from the truth but i have a feeling snape is on the good side because i dont think snape is a better wizard then DD

Old July 17th, 2004, 9:04 am
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Does this question really differ from the ones asked here?

Do you think Voldemort knows Snape is a spy?
Was Snape in the graveyard after all?
Snape uncovered in Occlumency lessons?
Three Missing Death Eaters
Which side is Snape really on?
Can Snape really be trusted?
If Snape can trick Voldemort

Old July 17th, 2004, 9:52 am
Draco Spirit  Male.gif Draco Spirit is offline
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i think....

I think the reson why we been told to keep a eye on him is becuse he is a rather bitter man and serious does not like Harry becuse his father bulied him. He also veery smart (remeber the logic puzzle?) and skilled at protecting his thoughts.

Therefor it is very hard to know his true motives.

However we do know that he has saved Harry's life several times and Dumbledore trust him.

I think the anwser to Snape will be answered when Dumbledoor finaly explains why he trust him and why he turned trator on Vouldermort (I suspect Lilly had a hand)

erm... go moonlight!

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Old July 17th, 2004, 10:15 am
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filius  Undisclosed.gif filius is offline
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Originally Posted by stargarbage
So...What if Voldemort has already penetrated Snape's mind, found that he is a spy for Dumbledore, and decided to use that fact to feed Dumbledore false information? It would make sense. Voldemort hasn't killed him or had him killed already in case he is needed. It would also explain why Snape has not been able to give Dumbledore bigger tips, like Lucius Malfoy, wouldn't he have told Snape about Kreature and the plot to get Harry to the Department of Mysteries and have known that Harry would especially because he was aware of the fact that Harry was not doing well in Occlumency and that his lessons had ceased?

Perhaps Snape actually did join Dumbledore and the fight against Voldemort, but is completely unaware that he may be a part of Voldemort's future plans.

Harry and Voldemort have got this "connection" - you all know what i mean. You need eye contact if you want to "read somebody's mind. Voldemort and Snape do not have that. So i don't think Voldemort is in Snapes mind just yet. But they may come face to face in the books to come and with one good look, Snape will be Voldemort's pawn!

Old July 17th, 2004, 12:46 pm
Croft  Male.gif Croft is offline
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In PS Snape does all he can to stop Quirrel, and when Lord Voldemort is in the back of Quirrells head, he must know that Snape is against him?

Old July 17th, 2004, 3:08 pm
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Tarawyn  Female.gif Tarawyn is offline
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I'm going to merge this with the first thread Barbara linked.

It's possible that Voldemort knows. Whether or not from Occlumency or from hanging around Quirrel's head, I'd be surprised if Voldemort hadn't worked it out by now; his reaction in GoF is a bit malignant if he's just angry about Snape being late. And at the same time, it's dependent on Snape spying openly this time... we don't have a drop of info on how he's spying, which gives him a lot of leeway.

Old July 18th, 2004, 5:33 pm
Remus Black  Male.gif Remus Black is offline
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He knows because in GOF he says "one has left me forever...he will die" referring to Snape....or is it Karkaroff?

Old July 18th, 2004, 6:15 pm
SquibOnline  Male.gif SquibOnline is offline
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Well snape is an interesting character. Dumbledore believes that snape is a spy for the order but perhaps he is double crossing Dumbledore and actually feeding information to Voldemort and giving Dumbledore bad information.

As snape can close his mind voldemort and dumbledore cannot read his exact thoughts.

Old July 18th, 2004, 6:48 pm
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Originally Posted by SquibOnline

As snape can close his mind voldemort and dumbledore cannot read his exact thoughts.

I'm not so sure. I think that Voldemort and Dumbledore are both more powerful than that, and to assume that someone like Snape can keep them out is not exactly on the mark.

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Old July 18th, 2004, 6:52 pm
emanonpj  Undisclosed.gif emanonpj is offline
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Snape is supposed to be on the good side now. I get the impression that he is self-seeking and has thought about where his loyalties should lie. Doesn't mean he's all that good. Maybe he just wants Voldemort out of the way, so that he can go back to pursuing the Dark Arts in quiet. Voldemort lost power because of Harry before, so Snape may think that he's not as powerful as he claims. If LV fell from power once, it could happen again, so by aligning himself with the OotP, he's mearly looking out for number one.

Old July 18th, 2004, 7:39 pm
RINGO  Female.gif RINGO is offline
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I think we will all find out a little bit more on snape in book 6,JK Rowling knows that snape has become a massive part of the potter books,she is either going to make him the hero or bad guy by book 7,but either way,I have a real nasty feeling she will kill him,Voldemort is going to be the one to do it,finding out that snape is a spy,and that his loyalties lie with Dumbledore and the order...
Volemort must have some sort of an idea,but I guess we just have to wait...

On a personnal note....

I hope that snape does NOT die...I want him to be a hero....

Old July 18th, 2004, 9:14 pm
Spikey  Male.gif Spikey is offline
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I'm sure they IF voldermort knew for sure all ready that Snape would be dead. I think he will find out in the course of the next 2 books, but whats happends when he does will be intresting to find out. I see Snape haveing to go into hideing like siruis did.

Old July 18th, 2004, 9:24 pm
Anamaya  Female.gif Anamaya is offline
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I don't think that Voldy knows...otherwise Snape would probably be dead. We do find out that Voldy is skilled in Legilimens, and Snape is skilled in Occlumency, making it possible for him to lie to Voldy. I just think it's a matter of time before Voldy finds out...hope Snape doesn't bite the dust...

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Old July 22nd, 2004, 2:52 pm
lorna  Female.gif lorna is offline
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haven't been on for a few days but thanks Darkillness for finding the quote.
But it raises a question?
Rowling did not say we shouldn't feel to sorry for Snape, she said
we shouldn't think him too nice.
That is not the same thing.

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Old July 22nd, 2004, 3:03 pm
Padushi  Female.gif Padushi is offline
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Or perhaps Voldemort does know and is waiting to use Snape to his advantage, maybe giving him fake information for the Order

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