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Do you think Voldemort knows that Snape is a spy?



 
 
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  #221  
Old July 26th, 2004, 4:55 pm
Da_Chinkster  Male.gif Da_Chinkster is offline
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I dont think LV knows that Snape is a spy in the context of the book, but how he doesnt is beyond me as Snape tried to stop Quirrell in the PS/SS and LV was on the back of Quirrell's head all the time.


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  #222  
Old July 26th, 2004, 8:43 pm
starlette01350  Female.gif starlette01350 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newt
At this point Voldemort knowing Snape is a spy isn't going to change much. Snape abandoned Voldemort, he's already a marked man. Voldemort even states this in the GoF when explaining the six missing spaces in the Death Eaters.

And here we have six missing Death Eaters...three dead in my service [Evan Rosier, Travers, and Wilkes] . One too cowardly to return [Karkaroff] ...he will pay. One, who I believe has left me forever [Snape] ...he will be killed, of course...and one, who remains my most faithful servant, and who was already reentered my service [Crouch, Jr.].
One thing has always bothered me about these lines in the book. Voldemort states what DE are missing, but he never says which ones are there. How do we know that Snape wasn't there and that the one who left him forever isn't someone else, like Fudge? Did JKR ever say where Snape was during the tournament? Is it possible that he returned to Voldemort because the Dark Mark was glowing and he didn't want Voldemort to know he was a traitor? This way, he could still be a spy in OoTP.

I just thought I'd throw that out there, I know it's pretty far-fetched.


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  #223  
Old July 26th, 2004, 9:35 pm
TylerDurden  Male.gif TylerDurden is offline
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Who ever said that Snape is still a spy? In GoF Voldemort says something like: "and there is one whom I beleive has left me for ever." So therefore, Snapes 'spy work' has been over for quite sometime.

Quote:
Originally Posted by starlette01350
One thing has always bothered me about these lines in the book. Voldemort states what DE are missing, but he never says which ones are there. How do we know that Snape wasn't there and that the one who left him forever isn't someone else, like Fudge? Did JKR ever say where Snape was during the tournament? Is it possible that he returned to Voldemort because the Dark Mark was glowing and he didn't want Voldemort to know he was a traitor? This way, he could still be a spy in OoTP.

I just thought I'd throw that out there, I know it's pretty far-fetched.
Hmmmm. In a word: no.


  #224  
Old August 10th, 2004, 7:18 pm
stupiddeer  Male.gif stupiddeer is offline
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i don't think voldemort knows snape is a spy or snape would already be dead. my guess is that snape will have to reveal himself to save harry or someone in front of lucius malfoy and will have to kill lucius. draco will see this and leave hogwarts


  #225  
Old August 11th, 2004, 4:33 pm
bethp  Female.gif bethp is offline
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I don't know why, if Snape were still a spy closely linked to LV, that Dumbledore would have Snape teach Harry Occlumency .... If DD was so worried about LV finding out about his relationship being "more than headmaster/student" I would think that having Snape teach Harry would reveal that Snape was helping the order.

Also the whole issue with Quirrell - I mean LV was attached to his head - he HAS to know Snape was protecting the stone...if he were loyal to LV then he would have helped Quirrell.

Even if Snape's job was to act as a "double agent" meaning LV thought he was spying on the Order for him but really working for DD - that the issue of Quirrell would give him away.

I also don't think Snape returned to LV in the graveyard in GoF - first Snape can't apparate from the grounds, so he would have had to feel the mark, leave the stadium, walk out of Hogwarts grounds then aparated - and it seemed that all the DEs showed up at appx. the same time. He also appears with DD and McG not long after Harry has returned to Hogwarts and my feeling after another "Harry" defeat, LV probably held a conference with the DEs right away, (similar to what DD with McG, Bill, Molly, Snape, Sirius, Hagrid and Maxime sending them on missions and having them "round" everyone up to restart the order)so Snape would still have been at the graveyard and not bursting into the fake Moody's office.

I want to know what DD had to ask him to do? Was it to try and go back now that LV had returned and ask LV for forgivness?? OR is their someone else whom Snape gets information thru that DD needed him to make contact with?


  #226  
Old August 11th, 2004, 7:15 pm
ramones  Female.gif ramones is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by starlette01350
One thing has always bothered me about these lines in the book. Voldemort states what DE are missing, but he never says which ones are there.
Well, JK had her reasons for not naming them. It creates suspence.

I'm not sure how Snape can still be a spy. The DE and LV must know that he is on DD's side.

Lord Voldemorts knows.


  #227  
Old September 28th, 2004, 9:30 am
Serpentina  Female.gif Serpentina is offline
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I neither think that Snape was in the graveyard that night, but I have a theory about the mission Dumbledore sent him after Harry's comeback.
He paled, that suggested me that he indeed went to LV. But not as himself.
Crouch Jr just had his soul sucked out, but still a perfect material for polyjuice potion. Also Fudge wittnessed this, and most likely he'll tell it in the Ministry, and therefore it's a matter of time when LV's get know about it. But the emphasis is on the word: Time.
If they act quickly, they can use Crouch to get know about Voldemort's most recent and most important plans, just before Fudge tells everybody what happened.
On the other hand Voldemort might have been quite curious what happened at Hogwarts after Harry escaped, and wanted a report anyway from his most loyal servant.
But after this individual case, I don't think that Snape goes anywhere near to Lord Voldemort.


  #228  
Old September 28th, 2004, 12:21 pm
Slim_Moody  Male.gif Slim_Moody is offline
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I think that Voldemort knows that Snape is a spy because of his mentioning something like" One of has left us forever and will be killed". Anyway Snape did not apparate from hogwarts as mentioned by hermione in hogwarts: a history.
Yes Voldemort knows about snape being his enemy and with dumbledore.


  #229  
Old October 8th, 2004, 8:33 am
Paul  Male.gif Paul is offline
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Think about it guys, if LV knows that Snape is a spy why is Snape still alive?


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  #230  
Old October 8th, 2004, 10:49 am
Stayce  Female.gif Stayce is offline
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There is so much that I see to complicate the situation with Snape that I can't even speculate to find what the story may be. There are so many times when something is happening and I am thinking how does VM/DD not seeing this depending on which side Snape turns out to really be on. IBelieve he is in fact good but may be proven wrong so I examine both sides. Anyway when Snape is teaching Harry Occlumency and sees the hallway/door in the MOM he is seeing it because VM is trying to lure Harry there but Harry is looking stright at Snape when it happens.....which way is Snape going, does VM just think he is teaching Harry, why does VM think Snape teaching at HW is ok? and on and on the questions go......the twists and stoy line on this point are some of my most antisipated.


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  #231  
Old October 8th, 2004, 11:11 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by starlette01350
One thing has always bothered me about these lines in the book. Voldemort states what DE are missing, but he never says which ones are there. How do we know that Snape wasn't there and that the one who left him forever isn't someone else, like Fudge? Did JKR ever say where Snape was during the tournament? Is it possible that he returned to Voldemort because the Dark Mark was glowing and he didn't want Voldemort to know he was a traitor? This way, he could still be a spy in OoTP.

I just thought I'd throw that out there, I know it's pretty far-fetched.
BAGMAN!!!!!!! It's shown in GoF that he dosn't mind cheating to get what he wants, and there's no proof that it was Snape that is the one that shall be killed other than the fact that he's got the Mark, and he's a spy for DD now.


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  #232  
Old October 8th, 2004, 11:09 pm
Phoenix_Fawkes  Male.gif Phoenix_Fawkes is offline
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Snap is a master occlumens(Sp) so Riddle couldnt read his mind. But I'm sure Riddle questions his loyolties often.


  #233  
Old October 9th, 2004, 12:38 am
Serpentina  Female.gif Serpentina is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hpfan_08
Think about it guys, if LV knows that Snape is a spy why is Snape still alive?

Because of the simple fact, that he's at Hogwarts under it's and Dumbledore's protection? He hardly leaves it, we've seen only at Gr 12, which is another well protected place.


  #234  
Old October 9th, 2004, 3:23 am
lynchseeker  Male.gif lynchseeker is offline
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no i dont because he could use potions to sheild himself from voldermort without voldermort knowing.


  #235  
Old October 9th, 2004, 3:25 am
SeekerLynch  Male.gif SeekerLynch is offline
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What potions? What are talking about? There aren't ant potions we know of like that.


  #236  
Old October 9th, 2004, 3:30 am
lynchseeker  Male.gif lynchseeker is offline
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mabe snape knows in the book but we dont and there could be potions that do that.


  #237  
Old October 9th, 2004, 4:03 am
BlackChidori  Undisclosed.gif BlackChidori is offline
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But can Snape really be that useful as a spy, and for how long?

When Harry blocks his mind to Snape's attack in one lesson, he sees Snape growing clearer...etc (there is a better description in the book)

So, if Snape had become a spy again to spy on LV, and LV tried to test Snape to see if he was really faithful or not by using Legilimency and Snape blocked his attack, wouldn't that be suspicious?

Wouldn't Voldemort tell Snape not to block the attack, or just kill him for being suspicious or something?

Or is there an advanced level of Occlumency that Snape knows so that he can control what the Legilimency user sees? I doubt it, since even Harry got into Snape's mind, and he saw a couple bad memories before Snape stopped him. So he can't be all THAT great if Potty wee Potter could even view a couple seconds of his memories.

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Last edited by BlackChidori; October 9th, 2004 at 6:13 pm.
  #238  
Old October 9th, 2004, 4:08 am
aggiefan1206  Female.gif aggiefan1206 is offline
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I would have to say that yes he does unless he was in the graveyard scene in GoF.Which i dont know if we will ever actually ever find out.


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  #239  
Old October 9th, 2004, 5:02 am
SyirenSlytherin  Female.gif SyirenSlytherin is offline
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this topic just gives me a headache when i think about it. there's just so many conflicting scenes that i don't even know where to begin breaking this down. i too have trouble seeing how LV wouldn't suspect him but then why is he so friendly with Lucious. just too many questions...


  #240  
Old October 9th, 2004, 5:11 am
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it smells in here...

Man, Snape must have swam across the North Sea all the way to Holland because he just *reeks* of red herring!

Of course Voldemort knows Snape has been working for Dumbledore! How could he not? And if he thought that Snape was "gone forever," he'd be dead. He's not dead, so LV doesn't think he's gone forever. JKR has been setting us up all along about Snape. First, we suspect him, only to find that DD trusts him. Then we hear over and over that DD trusts him. And then we get that graveyard scene that is so cleverly designed to be incredibally ambiguous and lead us to believe that Snape is dead meat.

I didn't read every post-sorry-but I thought I'd link to the North Tower article on "the missing death eater" in the graveyard scene. Basically we all assume Snape wasn't there, which is what JKR wants us to do. And the next article goes over how Snape had plenty of time to get to the graveyard and back. And why should he worry about arousing suspicion? It's not like DD wouldn't understand why he had to leave. Then again, if Snape didn't go to the graveyard, he has a built-in excuse as to why he couldn't make it.

I'm am in agreeance with Serpentine's opinion a couple pages back. Snape was placed in his position at Hogwarts with LV's full approval. And DD and LV both are fully aware that he is a double agent. It just can't work any other way, unless he's being used. I believe that Snape's placed himself securely into a position that makes him indispensible to both sides. He helps just enough to make himself useful. Isn't he just the crafty and intelligent kind of person to pull this off?

About Quirrell--why assume that Snape and DD didn't know that Quirrell had his, uh, cranial parasite? Maybe Snape was actually helping LV by trying to counter Quirrell's jinx at the Quidditch match. LV wouldn't have wanted Harry to be killed (not that he would have been, really), because he needed to get some crucial information out of him (prophecy?...). Quirrell's little stunt wasn't a good idea--bet he had a "headache" after that. But that's not my idea--I must give credit to The Red Hen Guy for laying out the details of how Snape's double-agent status probably works. It's a good read.

I will make no assertion that Snape is on one side or the other. I'm waiting for JKR to surprise me. But I will throw out that he may not even have decided which side he's on. He may be playing both LV and DD and waiting to see who comes out on top before he makes any move that would commit him one way or the other. Slippery guy, that Severus...


 
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