Login  
 
 
Go Back   Chamber of Secrets > Forum Archives > Harry Potter Archives

Do you think Voldemort knows that Snape is a spy?



 
 
Thread Tools
  #301  
Old October 16th, 2004, 7:26 pm
Lord Thunder  Male.gif Lord Thunder is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 5056 days
Location: Gryffindor common room
Posts: 40
well what if Snape is a double agent . meaning hes truly working for Voldemort He's in the order of the phoenix as a spy for Voldemort . Now we know the order has snape's missions getting information on Voldemort, though as a DE or a close friend i'm not sure , then he simply gives the order information that seems true but its realy false.

also did sirius tell harry he had to trust snape, someone told me he did and i'm not sure
if anyone knows please tell me


Sponsored Links
  #302  
Old October 16th, 2004, 8:23 pm
egonza44  Female.gif egonza44 is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 5056 days
Location: Madrid (Spain)
Posts: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Thunder
also did sirius tell harry he had to trust snape, someone told me he did and i'm not sure
if anyone knows please tell me
Right now I don't know exactly. But in book 5 when Sirius is having and argue with Snape, Sirius say:
" I don't care if DD thinfs you've reformed, I know better..."
And after, he gives Harry the mirror to "know if Snape's giving Harry a hard time"
I think that Sirius doesn't trust Snape and thinks that he's in the other side. Because in the argue he ask Snape about Malfoy and get at that they're close friends, what is imcompatible with the order.


  #303  
Old October 17th, 2004, 3:14 am
Danger Mouse  Male.gif Danger Mouse is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 5054 days
Location: Colchester
Age: 39
Posts: 6
I have a theory that could let Snape spy on Voldemort. I think it covers Quirll, Dumbledores testimony and the graveyard arguments although I could be wrong. The issue of lying to Voldemort is coverd by J.K Rowling in Order of the Pheonix, Snape is a master of Occlumencey so he can shut down the thoughts and memories that would show he is lying.

My theory springs from the comment made by Sirus Black about Snape being Malfoys lap dog. Originally I thought that Snape might be posing as Malfoys friend to gather information. Then a new idea came to me, we know that the Death Eaters used the Imperius Curse to control wizards during the first war with Voldemort. So what if Snape was one of the wizards controlled by the curse, and maybe when he first came back to the good side was when he managed to fight it off.

So when Dumbledore sent Snape off at the end of Goblet of Fire at great personal risk, it could have been to put himself in a postion where Malfoy would try to use the Imperius Curse on him again. Which he would fight off once more and be in a position to spy on Vodemort for the Order.

One problem I had was why they would want Snape bad enough to curse him. Then inspiration struck (or maybe i read someone else's post ).
Vodemort is seeking immortallity, to do this I would bet that he would need a potions expert. Who would be better than Snape a Hogwarts teacher who is known to be interested in the dark arts.

Ok so thats my theory. I know that there are holes in it, meny meny holes
but I thought I would send it out and see if it helps the rest of you to more and probably more complete Ideas


  #304  
Old October 17th, 2004, 12:41 pm
egonza44  Female.gif egonza44 is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 5056 days
Location: Madrid (Spain)
Posts: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danger Mouse

So when Dumbledore sent Snape off at the end of Goblet of Fire at great personal risk, it could have been to put himself in a postion where Malfoy would try to use the Imperius Curse on him again. Which he would fight off once more and be in a position to spy on Vodemort for the Order.
I find this option very interesting. But I don't think that every time that Snape helps LV hes under the Imperius Curse.

Maybe, at the beginning, Snape helps Malfoy and LV, because he shared their idea of pure and mudblood. But when he find out what LV wanted to do he decided to leave them. So Malfoy had to used tha Imperius Curse then.
Perhaps DD refer to this when he says that Snape assumed a personal risk.
But according to that, how is Snape helping Malfoy and LV right now? I mean, he's under the Imperius Curse every time? I don't think so.
One thing that come to my mind is that Snape could tell Malfoy and Voldemort that when he left them was because DD or someone inhis side was using the Imperius Curse with him. Malfoy and LV believe him and think that Snape is again on their side.

I know that is only a possibility, but can explain several things.
What do you think?


  #305  
Old October 17th, 2004, 1:05 pm
Miss OliverWood  Female.gif Miss OliverWood is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 5148 days
Age: 36
Posts: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonks08
I know that Voldie doesn't know that Snape is a spy or he'd be dead, or if he did know he could use Snape to get into the Order plans and stuff.

But I agree with what turbotriple_power said: "But if Snape is a spy and he is using polyjuice potion to look like crouch well did LV suspect him because he wasn't there in the departement of mysteries?
Snape wasn't at the Department of Ministries because he's a Hogwarts proffessor. Because he can't fight as a death eater (if he is a true death eater) against the order, because he will be making himself shown... make sense? But I do believe Snape is good, he just doesn't like Harry

I also think that we'll find out alot more about Snape in the next book, and yes, he may possibly die. Harry needs to stay in classes with Snape so he can continue with his Occulumency (?) classes. Snape will prolly pass him with the bare minimum he need to get into his N.E.W.T.S because Dumbledore will make him Gotta love Dumbledore!

I just can't wait for the next book. And then the movie. Woo! I'm just keeping myself preocupied by playing the sims with HP characters. Hehe.


  #306  
Old October 17th, 2004, 1:09 pm
mckinnon81  Male.gif mckinnon81 is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 5140 days
Location: Sydney, Australia
Age: 36
Posts: 12
Quote:
HP and the GoF - Page 565

"And here we have six missing Death Eaters . . . three dead in my service. One, too cowardly to return ... he will pay. One, who I believe has left me forever ... he will be killed, of course . . . and one, who remains my most faithful servant, and who has already reentered my service."

The Death Eaters stirred, and Harry saw their eyes dart sideways at one another through their masks.

"He is at Hogwarts, that faithful servant, and it was through his efforts that our young friend arrived here tonight. . .
I Believe the coward is Karkaroff:

Quote:
HP and the GoF - Page 586
"Karkaroff?" said Moody with an odd laugh. "Karkaroff fled tonight, when he felt the Dark Mark burn upon his arm. He betrayed too many faithful supporters of the Dark Lord to wish to meet them . . . but I doubt he will get far. The Dark Lord has ways of tracking his enemies."
The one who remains faithfull, in his service and is at Hogwarts is Crouch of course.

But the one who has left me forver, I believe is Snape.

Snape was once a DE and has since returned to serve DD. Even Fudge knows it. Snape showed Fudge his 'Dark Mark' on his arm because it was becoming clearer, he felt it, he knew Voldermort was and has returned.

So I believe Voldermort knows about Snape, but I don't think Snape is going to Voldermort as a spy. I think he is going and talking to 'unknown' DE who escaped punishment when Voldermort last fell, he is useing his occlemancy to hide his 'true loyalty' from these DE to gather info. I don't think it would be safe to go directly to Voldermort himself.


  #307  
Old October 17th, 2004, 1:10 pm
Miss OliverWood  Female.gif Miss OliverWood is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 5148 days
Age: 36
Posts: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danger Mouse
I have a theory that could let Snape spy on Voldemort. I think it covers Quirll, Dumbledores testimony and the graveyard arguments although I could be wrong. The issue of lying to Voldemort is coverd by J.K Rowling in Order of the Pheonix, Snape is a master of Occlumencey so he can shut down the thoughts and memories that would show he is lying.

My theory springs from the comment made by Sirus Black about Snape being Malfoys lap dog. Originally I thought that Snape might be posing as Malfoys friend to gather information. Then a new idea came to me, we know that the Death Eaters used the Imperius Curse to control wizards during the first war with Voldemort. So what if Snape was one of the wizards controlled by the curse, and maybe when he first came back to the good side was when he managed to fight it off.

So when Dumbledore sent Snape off at the end of Goblet of Fire at great personal risk, it could have been to put himself in a postion where Malfoy would try to use the Imperius Curse on him again. Which he would fight off once more and be in a position to spy on Vodemort for the Order.

One problem I had was why they would want Snape bad enough to curse him. Then inspiration struck (or maybe i read someone else's post ).
Vodemort is seeking immortallity, to do this I would bet that he would need a potions expert. Who would be better than Snape a Hogwarts teacher who is known to be interested in the dark arts.

Ok so thats my theory. I know that there are holes in it, meny meny holes
but I thought I would send it out and see if it helps the rest of you to more and probably more complete Ideas

I think it's an awesome idea! Wow, totally makes sense.


  #308  
Old October 17th, 2004, 2:41 pm
egonza44  Female.gif egonza44 is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 5056 days
Location: Madrid (Spain)
Posts: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by mckinnon81
So I believe Voldermort knows about Snape, but I don't think Snape is going to Voldermort as a spy. I think he is going and talking to 'unknown' DE who escaped punishment when Voldermort last fell, he is useing his occlemancy to hide his 'true loyalty' from these DE to gather info. I don't think it would be safe to go directly to Voldermort himself.
I agree with you, McKinnon81. I think that going to LV as a spy is to risky. Maybe, he obtein the information from that DE. It's possible that one of them be Malfoy. He simulates their friendship and treat Draco so well to take an advantage.


  #309  
Old October 17th, 2004, 3:36 pm
Mrs Flamel's Avatar
Mrs Flamel  Female.gif Mrs Flamel is offline
Fifth Year
 
Joined: 5072 days
Location: HMS Alchemy in the Dungeons
Posts: 709
Yes, going to LV directly IS dangerous for Snape. We've discussed the possibilities here that even if he is a double-agent, and LV knows this, he still may be working through an intermediary. Lucius Malfoy would be the obvious choice, since (at least for a while) he was on the school board, and they are possibly old friends anyway.

I am suspicious about the idea of Snape being "Imperio-ed." He tells Harry:

Quote:
"You have already shown an aptitude at resisting the imperius curse...You will find that similar powers are needed for this..." OotP ch. 24
If similar powers are needed, then taking his logic in reverse, Snape would be a good candidate to be able to resist the Imperius Curse. However, his statement also makes me wonder if he can say the two are similar out of personal experience.


We've discussed Snape's ability to block LV, and many of us have been skeptical. I wanted to quote Snape from OotP, to maybe have a more definitive look at this possibility:

Quote:
Snape: "Those who have mastered Legilimency are able, under certain conditions, to delve into the minds of their victims and to interpret their findings correctly. The Dark Lord, for instance, almost always knows when somebody is lying to him. Only those skilled at Occlumency are able to shut down those feelings and memories that contradict the lie, and so utter falsehoods in his presence without detection... The Dark Lord is at a considerable distance and the walls and grounds of Hogwarts are guarded by many ancient spells and charms to ensure the bodily and mental safety of those who dwell within them,... Time and space matter in magic, Potter. Eye contact is often essential to Legilimency." OotP, ch. 24
I bolded that third sentence. Snape makes it sound quite matter-of-fact that LV can be lied to. He also says almost always knows when he's being lied to, which greatly contrasts Bellatrix saying in ch. 35: "The Dark Lord always knows!" I included the rest of all that to show that, except for Harry obviously, LV probably just can't know what's going on with Snape unless they're in close proximity. But, as we've been discussing just now, he may not often be in close proximity to LV.

I don't think that Snape underestimates LV. In the same scene in ch. 24, when Harry says "Voldemort," Snape freaks out. He obviously respects LV's power. But he seems to have a clear-cut idea of what can and can't be done with Legilimency and Occlumency. Unless he's gravely mistaken, to me it sounds like he actually has successfully lied to LV. And if that's the case, I think we should also consider that Snape can lie to DD as well.



Last edited by Mrs Flamel; October 18th, 2004 at 7:41 pm. Reason: to get chapter number right...
  #310  
Old October 17th, 2004, 4:53 pm
egonza44  Female.gif egonza44 is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 5056 days
Location: Madrid (Spain)
Posts: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs Flamel
I don't think that Snape underestimates LV. In the same scene in ch. 22, when Harry says "Voldemort," Snape freaks out. He obviously respects LV's power. But he seems to have a clear-cut idea of what can and can't be done with Legilimency and Occlumency. Unless he's gravely mistaken, to me it sounds like he actually has successfully lied to LV. And if that's the case, I think we should also consider that Snape can lie to DD as well.
Most people know the difference between "be good" and "be bad". But I think it's in human nature to think that the good one is the most powerful. This is why we to believe that DD is so much better than LV. We need to believe it because is the bass of our concept of "good" and "bad" (I don't know the correct words in English)
Maybe there's a remote possibility that LV be a most powerful wizard than DD.
We have to learn that DD is not foolproof, isn't he?
After all, I trust in DD's good taste and I believe that Snape is a good person. I can't remember who said it, but there it goes: Snapeis not a bad person, he only hates Harry.


  #311  
Old October 17th, 2004, 5:17 pm
SquibOnline  Male.gif SquibOnline is offline
Fifth Year
 
Joined: 5164 days
Location: London, UK
Posts: 953
I think it has an idea that snape may be a spy. But he can't read snape's mind and find out


  #312  
Old October 18th, 2004, 5:43 pm
Lilly Evans  Female.gif Lilly Evans is offline
Fourth Year
 
Joined: 5092 days
Location: Underneath the Christmas Tree
Age: 29
Posts: 670
I would think that it would be obvious that Voldemort would know that Snape is no longer on his side, since he did not show up for the first meeting, when he was brought back. He knew that some of the DEs missing were either dead or no longer on his side, and he probably knows that SNape is not dead. So, it is a good question, cause if Voldemort knows that Snape is a spy, so would the other DEs and then Snape couldn't really be a spy could he? They would probably kill him on sight.

I think that Snape probably went to Voldemort's side after the scene in the hospital wing in GoF and made up some excuse for why he was not able to come earlier, therefore making Voldemort think that he was still on his side...


__________________
"I thought you lived in that girls' bathroom?" said Harry, who had been careful to give the place a wide berth for some years now.
"I do," Myrtle said, with a sulky little shrug, "but that doesn't mean I can't visit other places. I came and saw you in your bath once, remember?"
"Vividly," said Harry.
  #313  
Old October 18th, 2004, 7:11 pm
Mrs Flamel's Avatar
Mrs Flamel  Female.gif Mrs Flamel is offline
Fifth Year
 
Joined: 5072 days
Location: HMS Alchemy in the Dungeons
Posts: 709
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilly Evans
cause if Voldemort knows that Snape is a spy, so would the other DEs and then Snape couldn't really be a spy could he? They would probably kill him on sight.
That's the point. Snape ISN'T dead. But, if LV and the DE's suspected him to be a traitor, he would be dead. And he wouldn't be able to spy very well.

We also have to remember that Snape became a Hogwarts professor before LV was defeated by his backfired curse. Which means DD must have trusted him by then (since he hired him). Becoming a Hogwarts prof is no secret. LV would have known Snape was a prof, and would have figured that DD had trusted him enough to hire him. It's possible that LV wasn't able to kill Snape then because DD was protecting him, but then, why haven't we seen any other DEs behave like anything had happened? I say all of this to point out that there's been ample time for LV & DEs to suspect Snape, but noone actually acts like they do...

Two things we don't know: How long Snape was a DE, and when he earned DD's trust. The timing and order of those two things are important.

egonza, I'd like to be able to completely trust DD, too. He is my favorite character, partly because he's so incredibly wise. But if he were infallible, then he wouldn't have made any of the (very few!) mistakes we've seen him make--which was a major point of book 5. Not that I would want anyone to stop loving DD!

It's just that what we know at this point isn't entirely consistent with the perception of Snape we've been set up to have, so we have to consider all the possibilities.



Last edited by Mrs Flamel; October 18th, 2004 at 7:43 pm.
  #314  
Old October 19th, 2004, 3:46 am
atherella's Avatar
atherella  Female.gif atherella is offline
Seventh Year
 
Joined: 5157 days
Location: Can't tell..I'm an Unspeakable
Age: 44
Posts: 1,806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilly Evans
I would think that it would be obvious that Voldemort would know that Snape is no longer on his side, since he did not show up for the first meeting, when he was brought back.
The thing about that is everyone seems so willing to accept that when we don't know that for a FACT. I've always considered it a possibility he was there, and was one of the ones that LV did not speak directly to, and name by name. JKR has never ruled out that Snape was in fact there, that night. I'm not entirely convinced he was there, but after reading the Ren Hen Guys's essay (linked earlier in the thread) just solidified my suspicious even more.

There is a chance that LV still thinks Snape is on his side and Snape could be playing the role of a double agent. LV could have actually WANTED him to take the job at Hogwarts. We simply don't know. That wouldn't even mean that Snape was evil, he could be feeding LV fake information, or useless information. I don't know if this is true or not, but I do think it is something that should not be ruled out.


  #315  
Old October 19th, 2004, 3:12 pm
egonza44  Female.gif egonza44 is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 5056 days
Location: Madrid (Spain)
Posts: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by atherella
I've always considered it a possibility he was there, and was one of the ones that LV did not speak directly to, and name by name. JKR has never ruled out that Snape was in fact there, that night.

There is a chance that LV still thinks Snape is on his side and Snape could be playing the role of a double agent. LV could have actually WANTED him to take the job at Hogwarts. We simply don't know. That wouldn't even mean that Snape was evil, he could be feeding LV fake information, or useless information. I don't know if this is true or not, but I do think it is something that should not be ruled out.
I agree with you.
This is one of the things that I like the most of Snape. When you think that he's a good guy and you get convinced that he's in the good side, something happenes that make you change your mind.
He's a very complex character with lots of "faces". In every book we can find a new revelation about him, but the most you try to think it through, the most you get lost.
In my opinion, JKR is setting the basses for the next book (I hope). When Snape's real story get uncovered we'll say WOW!


  #316  
Old October 19th, 2004, 3:26 pm
Mrs Flamel's Avatar
Mrs Flamel  Female.gif Mrs Flamel is offline
Fifth Year
 
Joined: 5072 days
Location: HMS Alchemy in the Dungeons
Posts: 709
You're absolutely right, atherella! The only thing I'm certain of regarding Snape is that we shouldn't make any assumptions about him. There is no proof of where he stands.

I was trying to organize what we know about Snape's situation, because so many of the discussions end up being kind of convoluted, and I wanted to get back to the basics of what we know to be true and what that must mean. So here goes:
  1. Snape has a history with the Death Eaters.
  2. Dumbledore stated that he has trusted Snape since before Voldemort's failed attack on Harry.
  3. Snape is an Occlumens; Voldemort and Dumbledore are Legilimens. Snape also believes it is possible to lie successfully to lie to Lord Voldemort, based on his comment in OotP, 24:
    Quote:
    "Only those skilled at Occlumency are able to shut down those feelings and memories that contradict the lie, and so utter falsehoods in [Voldemort's] presence without detection."
  4. Dumbledore knows Snape is an Occlumens.
  5. Dumbledore trusts Snape to have left the Death Eaters, as he said in Karkaroff's hearing, GoF, 30:
    Quote:
    "Severus Snape was indeed a Death Eater. However he rejoined our side before Lord Voldemort's downfall and turned spy for us, at great personal risk."
  6. Snape is doing some sort of work for the Order of the Pheonix that involves finding out what Voldemort is up to, as per Snape and Harry's conversation in OotP, 26:
    Quote:
    ""...it is not up to you to find out what the Dark Lord is saying to his Death Eaters."
    "No--that's your job isn't it?" Harry shot at him.
    ...
    "Yes, Potter...That is my job.""
  7. Death Eaters are not aware of the identities of all other Death Eaters, as per Karkaroff's comments in GoF, 30.
  8. Karkaroff was unaware that Snape was involved with Dumbledore as a "good guy."
  9. Snape and Lucius Malfoy, a proven Death Eater, have some sort of friendly relationship. Sirius calls Snape Malfoy's "lapdog." Draco seems to "like" Snape.
  10. Voldemort is NOT merciful with those who have wronged him.
  11. For what it's worth, Sirius is wary of Snape, as he says in OotP, 24:
    Quote:
    "I don't care if Dumbledore thinks you've reformed, I know better--"
  12. There's no evidence of Voldemort actually saying this, but I think it's reasonable to assume that he knows of Snape's employment at Hogwarts, and therefore he believes that Dumbledore trusts Snape since he hired him. Voldemort may have known before his fall, but even if he didn't, he figured it out when he was possessing professor Quirell.

If anyone wants to add to this list, please do--but I'm keeping it to information we can be absolutely certain of based on what's in canon.



Already, the facts do not seem to make sense. If Voldemort knew that Snape had switched sides, he would have had him killed, or at the least, the Malfoy family would probably not be on good terms with Snape. But, Snape is still alive, and no known Death Eaters seem to have any problem with Snape that we've seen. (I'm not sure if any of Crouch, jr.'s comments about Snape count, since he was posing as Moody.)

Importantly, we do not know the nature of Snape's job for the Order. Since Dumbledore said his job involves "great personal risk," it is likely that it involves contact with other Death Eaters, and maybe Voldemort himself. He would be an ineffective spy if the DEs didn't believe he was one of them.

However, I cannot fathom that Voldemort doesn't know that Dumbledore trusts Snape. He knows Snape teaches at Hogwarts, at the least, which implies a certain amount of trust on Dumbledore's part (and may even know what Dumbledore said at Karkaroff's hearing.) Does he think Dumbledore doesn't know Snape has a history with the Death Eaters? There is this possibility, but it seems a bit precarious to assume Dumbledore wouldn't know. But I come back to Dumbledore's statement at Karkaroff's hearing. Dumbledore suspected Voldemort may come back. He was not convinced he was dead and gone forever. So why blow Snape's cover in Karkaroff's hearing? He said this in front of everyone who was at the hearing, and then sent Snape back to spy after Voldemort's return. It doesn't add up.

My point is that the facts as we have them do not paint a simple picture. At least they don't to me. Some things don't make sense, so there's obviously more to the picture than what we have.



I think maybe a list of what we don't know could be helpful as well. We don't know if Snape was in the graveyard scene or if Voldemort's comments there were about him in any way. We don't know why Dumbledore trusts Snape or when and how Snape became a Death Eater. We don't know what Snape's job for the Order actually involves. We don't know if Voldemort knows Snape is a Legilimens. I'm sure there's lots more, but if we knew these things, that would certainly make the situation more clear.


ETA: I have purposefully tried to keep my own interpretations out of this post as much as I could. I have my own ideas about how to resolve some of these discrepancies, but that's not the point!



Last edited by Mrs Flamel; October 20th, 2004 at 4:16 pm.
  #317  
Old October 19th, 2004, 3:57 pm
silvery orb  Female.gif silvery orb is offline
Second Year
 
Joined: 5241 days
Location: Georgia, among the pines
Posts: 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by mckinnon81
So I believe Voldermort knows about Snape, but I don't think Snape is going to Voldermort as a spy. I think he is going and talking to 'unknown' DE who escaped punishment when Voldermort last fell, he is useing his occlemancy to hide his 'true loyalty' from these DE to gather info. I don't think it would be safe to go directly to Voldermort himself.
I also think Snape is the one whom LV says has left him forever, but do you think Snape could go around gathering info from the Death Eaters without ever having to face LV? If Snape appears to working for DD, Lucius might not believe Snape wants to come back to the fold. I feel that the DEs must put Snape through some sort of loyalty test before they tell him ANYTHING, and having him face LV would be the best way to test whether Snape is trustworthy...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs Flamel
I cannot fathom that Voldemort doesn't know that Dumbledore trusts Snape. He knows Snape teaches at Hogwarts, at the least, which implies a certain amount of trust on Dumbledore's part
I think LV DOES know DD trusts Snape (despite his DE history) and sneers at DD for being too trusting and easily deceived. Don't get me wrong - I love DD and his willingness to give 2nd chances, but can you blame LV for thinking DD a bit naive? LV's fake Moody spent an entire year undetected at Hogwarts. Quirrel had LV growing out of the back of his head under DD's nose. The Chamber of Secrets mystified DD...he hasn't always been the quickest to sense deception.

Quote:
I come back to Dumbledore's statement at Karkaroff's hearing...why blow Snape's cover in Karkaroff's hearing? He said this in front of everyone who was at the hearing, and then sent Snape back to spy after Voldemort's return. It doesn't add up.
Yes, that is a problem...the best I can come up with is that the room full of people were all members of the Wizengamot who were sworn to secracy over the hearing proceedings. Plus all the people loyal to LV (or suspected of being loyal to him) were in prison or hiding. So it probably never got back to LV that Snape had been a spy. Even if it did reach LV's ears (through Lucius, maybe), perhaps LV puts Lucius and Snape in the same boat - lying through their teeth to the Ministry but loyal to LV when the time comes.



Last edited by silvery orb; October 19th, 2004 at 6:43 pm.
  #318  
Old October 19th, 2004, 3:57 pm
egonza44  Female.gif egonza44 is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 5056 days
Location: Madrid (Spain)
Posts: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs Flamel
Snape has been teaching at Hogwarts since before Voldemort's failed attack on Harry
I think this is very important. He didn't come back as Lucius. He left LV when he was still the greatest (and darkest) wizard. So he had a powerful reason to leave him and ask DD to help him.


  #319  
Old October 19th, 2004, 4:19 pm
atherella's Avatar
atherella  Female.gif atherella is offline
Seventh Year
 
Joined: 5157 days
Location: Can't tell..I'm an Unspeakable
Age: 44
Posts: 1,806
Quote:
Originally Posted by egonza44
I think this is very important. He didn't come back as Lucius. He left LV when he was still the greatest (and darkest) wizard. So he had a powerful reason to leave him and ask DD to help him.
True. The thing we don't know about this is if it was all a ruse designed by LV, to place one of his DE in Hogwarts. We really just don't know, but it's all so fascinating to try to figure out.

I don't quite believe that Snape is really on the evil side, but I do consider that he may be acting as a double agent (see Double-00 Sevie: ) for how that may work out. Snape may be passing info on to both sides, and keeping his best interest at heart. (Hmmm, sounds almost like shades of PP), we just don't know. In the end though, I'm hoping it will be revealed that he has chosen the good side.


  #320  
Old October 20th, 2004, 5:25 am
IrishPhoenix711  Female.gif IrishPhoenix711 is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 5054 days
Location: Grimmauld Place
Age: 32
Posts: 20
I think that there's something more to the whole 'spy' thing. Voldemort knows that Snape has strong loyalties to Dumbledore (He tries to stop Quirrel from taking the stone, and that Snape tried to save Harry's life remember - Quirrel even comments on everything to Harry at the end of the book, and since Voldemort is sticking out of the back of Quirrel's head, we can assume he knows all about Snape.) There's no way Voldemort would even risk that Snape is a spy for him and not Dumbledore, he's way too smart. So basically I don't think all this "Snape" stuff is as simple as we think - I think when we find out what's up, we're all going to be flipping the page back and forth saying "WHAT!? OMG!?"


__________________


<a href="http://pages.prodigy.net/fammagallon/hp"><img src="http://pages.prodigy.net/fammagallon/hp/mourning.gif" alt="by MagicalObizuth"></a>

"...[JKR] has given us the gift of Harry Potter: a story about unfailing courage, friendship, love, and strength. The magic part just makes the whole experience a bit more, well, magical." ~ The True Magic of Harry Potter
 
Go Back  Chamber of Secrets > Forum Archives > Harry Potter Archives

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 7:22 am.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Original content is Copyright MMII - MMVIII, CoSForums.com. All Rights Reserved.
Other content (posts, images, etc) is Copyright its respective owners.