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Do you think Voldemort knows that Snape is a spy?



 
 
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  #441  
Old December 17th, 2004, 1:58 am
sly snape  Undisclosed.gif sly snape is offline
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I Can't Help Thinking That Maybe Snape Was Asked To Be A De In The Very Begining. Planning On Spying For The Order From The Start. When I First Read The Gof When Vd Talks About The 6 Missing De. I Thought That They Were Talking About Snape Also, But Now I Wonder If This Is True. There Are Plenty Of People He Could Mean. Ludo Bagman, Karkaroff, Crouch Jr. ,doby, Winky, The List Could Go On. Vd May Have Known Of Snapes Absence But Already Knew Where He Was And Thought He Was Back Working For Himself (vd) Already. Like Karkaroff Said When He Was On Trial. "we Never Knew The Names Of Every One Of Our Fellows-- He Alone Knew Exactly Who We All Were. So I Don't Know That He Would Have Called Everyone All At Once For That Reason. Maybe He Had Certain People Meet Together . I Am Sure Snape Was Considered Very High Up In The Group. He May Not Have Been Required To Meet In The Group Settings . He May Have Been One They Reported To More Or He Only Reported To Vd Himself Because He Pretended To Try To Keep A Cover From Dd, Even Though He Was On That Side, But He Has To Make It Look Like He Is Trying To Stay Undercover From Dd. Thus Keeping The Facade Of Spy Really On Both Sides. I Think We Just Want Him To Turn Out To Be Good. Yet The Personality Of A Slytherin " Those Cunniing Folk Use Any Means To Achieve Their Ends." I Want To Think He Will Turn Out Good Or Do The Right Thing And Will Always Try To Find A Point Of Defending Him... But Sometimes It Is Hard Not To See That He May End Up Being More Evil Than We Expected. Although I Don't Think He Will ( I Hope ).


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  #442  
Old December 28th, 2004, 3:38 am
HeRmIoNe_14  Female.gif HeRmIoNe_14 is offline
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Yes, but Snape was threatening Quirrel at the sorcecer's stone, and Voldemort was stuck at the back of Quirrel's head, how wouldn't he know?


  #443  
Old December 28th, 2004, 3:41 am
aggiefan1206  Female.gif aggiefan1206 is offline
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I think he might now. During Voldemorts first reign i would have to saythat he may not have but now i think he does. But i dont know how loyal snape really is so i guess i will have to wait for book 6.


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  #444  
Old December 28th, 2004, 4:18 am
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I doubt it, because why would Snape still be breathing if Voldemort knew, since as far as we know Snape being a spy for the order is having a negative affect on Voldemort.


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  #445  
Old December 28th, 2004, 9:29 am
negaprion  Undisclosed.gif negaprion is offline
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I was only able to read a few pages so if this was said already, I'm sorry.

I believe that Snape is the DE that has left LV forever. He will be killed (or at least LV will try) soon. In book 5 LV was keeping a low profile. If he killed Snape, Dumbledore would have gone after him with all he had and LV was not ready for that yet. This leaves the question of how Snape is spying if LV knows about him. I have several theories. But they all hinge on the fact that Snape has the Dark Mark on his arm.

1. Snape uses an invisibility cloak when he is "called" to LV. (this is my least favorite explanation as I think Nagini can "see" through the cloak with what I'll call heat vision -- you know... snakes can detect heat and use it to see like bats use echos. I think this is how he saw Mr. Weasly)

2. Snape transfigures himself into an object or a small animal (like a roach...hehe). I don't know if he can apparate as the object. This could be a problem.

3. Snape knows an invisibility potion that would also make him invisible to the snake.

4. Snape was told by Dumbledore how to become invisible without using a cloak.

These last two are the most likely. In this way, Snape could spy on LV without LV even knowing he was there.


  #446  
Old January 11th, 2005, 6:01 pm
Fawkesified  Male.gif Fawkesified is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newt
At this point Voldemort knowing Snape is a spy isn't going to change much. Snape abandoned Voldemort, he's already a marked man. Voldemort even states this in the GoF when explaining the six missing spaces in the Death Eaters.

And here we have six missing Death Eaters...three dead in my service [Evan Rosier, Travers, and Wilkes] . One too cowardly to return [Karkaroff] ...he will pay. One, who I believe has left me forever [Snape] ...he will be killed, of course...and one, who remains my most faithful servant, and who was already reentered my service [Crouch, Jr.].
This is a matter of debate. For instance, some theories state that Cornelius Oswold Fudge( ) is the cowardly one and Bagman is the coward (or vice versa). Somehow I don't think Jo would make it that blatantly obvious.

Anyway back on topic. There isn't direct cannon that states Severus is a spy. This matter is also open for debate... I mean if Snape was a spy, the evidence points to the fact that Voldemort would know. What would the point be in having a spy who is known to be a spy by those he is spying on...


  #447  
Old January 11th, 2005, 6:06 pm
Nevillerocks  Female.gif Nevillerocks is offline
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Hmm

What I want to know is how far Snape's spying has gone since voldemort has returned to power, e.g has he gone back to voldemort and tricked him into thinking that he is on his side. I beleive he has, or is going to because we know he is an oclimens and thefore fooling voldie is in his power


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  #448  
Old January 11th, 2005, 6:28 pm
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I believe that Voldemort knows Snape is a spy, and here's why:
1. As Vapor/Voldemort was physically part of Quirrell, Voldemort knew that Snape was actively trying to prevent the taking of the Sorcerer's/Philosopher's Stone. When Harry defeated Voldemort, Vapor-Voldy returned to the forest in Albania.
2. In the Goblet of Fire, now in somewhat of a body, Voldemort did not use Snape to get to Harry, instead he used his most faithful servant, imposter Moody, to turn the Triwizard Cup into a portkey. In the cemetery he said, 6 missing--three dead in my service, one to cowardly to return...he will be punished, one who I believe has left us forever...he will be killed, and one who remains my most faithful servant, and has already re-entered my service. He's at Hogwarts, that faithful servant, and it was through his efforts that our young friend arrived here tonight.
Plus: Peter Pettigrew, when he returned to Voldemort--had 3 years of knowledge on Harry Potter and friends, and others, like Dumbledore and Snape. Confirming what Voldemort already knew.
Why he hasn't killed Snape yet, I don't know--but Snape's got a big red bullseye on him.


  #449  
Old January 11th, 2005, 7:22 pm
AndrewOh  Undisclosed.gif AndrewOh is offline
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Ok my thoughts

Voldemort either doesnt know or is only suspect. If he wanted to kill him he would have which he could do without the prophet picking it up by making it look like a accident like the weed in hospital (weed and hospital names escape me at the moment)

During Vold War 1 Snape became a DE and at some point switched sides (before or after he got the job as potions master is something i or someone should look into as it seems kinda important) and was acting as a spy to both sides and feeding one side mostly lies (there would have to be some truth)

After Voldie is defeated he stays buddy with some DE including Lucious (who might be the one who got Snape into the DE to begin with but thats another story).

When Snape tried to stop Quirrel he didnt know he had a second head sticking out of the back oh his head let alone that it was Voldemorts. So he just thought he was trying to get the PS/SS for his own reasons and was just trying to stop him so he could stay close to the good side.

In GOF when Voldie is refering to "the one who has left us forever" he means Snape but then once DD sends him off he does some lieing (or maybe not dependsing on what side you think Snape is on) by saying that DD required him to search for Harry and he couldnt apperate while inside the grounds as we all know.

He is still on good terms with the DE i believe in OoTP as Umbridge say something along the lines of "Lucious Malfoy gives you such high praise" so im guessing that she talked to Lucious and other people who she would accosiate with about the going ons at Hogwarts before she departed for Hogwarts.

Also Im around 99% sure that the reason Snape crossed sides and DD trusts him Isnt that he told DD that James and Lily where about to be attacked as DD set to protect them after he heard the prophecy (unless of course it was it was one of the times where they deffied him) my personal oppion is Snape was the one who overheard the Prophecy as DD had to of talked to the person who overheard as he knows how much they had overheard


  #450  
Old January 11th, 2005, 7:42 pm
fairy_lightz  Female.gif fairy_lightz is offline
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yeh he says


  #451  
Old January 11th, 2005, 7:44 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewOh
Ok my thoughts

Voldemort either doesnt know or is only suspect. If he wanted to kill him he would have which he could do without the prophet picking it up by making it look like a accident like the weed in hospital (weed and hospital names escape me at the moment)

During Vold War 1 Snape became a DE and at some point switched sides (before or after he got the job as potions master is something i or someone should look into as it seems kinda important) and was acting as a spy to both sides and feeding one side mostly lies (there would have to be some truth)

After Voldie is defeated he stays buddy with some DE including Lucious (who might be the one who got Snape into the DE to begin with but thats another story).

When Snape tried to stop Quirrel he didnt know he had a second head sticking out of the back oh his head let alone that it was Voldemorts. So he just thought he was trying to get the PS/SS for his own reasons and was just trying to stop him so he could stay close to the good side.

In GOF when Voldie is refering to "the one who has left us forever" he means Snape but then once DD sends him off he does some lieing (or maybe not dependsing on what side you think Snape is on) by saying that DD required him to search for Harry and he couldnt apperate while inside the grounds as we all know.

He is still on good terms with the DE i believe in OoTP as Umbridge say something along the lines of "Lucious Malfoy gives you such high praise" so im guessing that she talked to Lucious and other people who she would accosiate with about the going ons at Hogwarts before she departed for Hogwarts.

Also Im around 99% sure that the reason Snape crossed sides and DD trusts him Isnt that he told DD that James and Lily where about to be attacked as DD set to protect them after he heard the prophecy (unless of course it was it was one of the times where they deffied him) my personal oppion is Snape was the one who overheard the Prophecy as DD had to of talked to the person who overheard as he knows how much they had overheard
My point being that Voldemort knew that Snape was trying to stop him, not that Snape knew Quirrell was possessed by Voldemort.
And you're right, I think Snape, when he finally went to Voldemort, lied and said Dumbledore had ordered a search for Harry...very plausible. It doesn't explain why, though, that Voldemort did not once try to use Snape to get to Harry. Remember, Voldemort placed his MOST FAITHFUL at Hogwart's--Snape was already teaching there--and Voldemort knew this.
Some people do think that Lucius (the actor anyway) is "Luscious" , and perhaps Voldemort hasn't disclosed to anyone yet, that Snape is the double-crosser--Voldemort operates in utmost secrecy--and he alone knows the name of every DE--faithful or not.
As for what made DD trust Snape? JKR says we will find out, just not today-this very second...



Last edited by kingwidgit; January 11th, 2005 at 8:06 pm.
  #452  
Old January 11th, 2005, 11:53 pm
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subtle science  Undisclosed.gif subtle science is offline
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If Voldemort knew Snape was a spy, Snape would be dead...after a vigorous dose of Cruciatus.

In PS/SS, Snape never says anything to Quirrell that can be taken as anti-Voldemort; everything he does say can be excused as his playing a role to deceive Dumbledore and ignorance of Voldemort's presence.

The one who has left forever and will be killed? Ludo Bagman--who also, according to Dumbledore, has never been accused of any Dark activity since (GoF) but whom Winky calls "a bad Wizard."

However, after OotP...I think Voldemort knows. Kreacher, when Harry speaks to him at the end of the novel, is happy, despite his "heavily bandaged hands." We know from Cos (and OotP) how Dobby must punish himself for betraying his master (including ironing his hands). Kreacher went to the Malfoys; while he could not tell the location of the Order's headquarters, he certainly could get across the names of the members. And who is the only one Voldemort does not already know or suspect? Snape. I do not think Snape will have an enjoyable time of it in Half-Blood Prince (and I can't wait until 7/16 to find out if I'm right!!).


  #453  
Old January 12th, 2005, 12:06 am
melusinafairy  Female.gif melusinafairy is offline
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Wouldnt voldemort find out because there was a trial and Snape was excused of his crimes because of his spying? But then again, Malfoy was also found innocent and claimed to have been posesed by voldemort. So maybe it wasnt unusual for death eaters to have odd excuses and found innocent. Maybe voldemort "forgave" snape like he did malfoy. He probably doesnt believe that snape was a spy. Snape is a gifted oclumens, so he can reject voldemort when voldemort tries to look into his mind to see if he is unfaithful to the Death Eaters. Just a coulple thoughts!


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  #454  
Old January 12th, 2005, 5:07 pm
siriusblue  Undisclosed.gif siriusblue is offline
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I hope he doesn't know. We have seen nothing to contradict this in the first 5 books. He is alive, Draco likes him, Lucius likes him, he gives Harry a hard time. The world is in perfect order.


  #455  
Old January 13th, 2005, 4:30 pm
PatronusGyrll  Female.gif PatronusGyrll is offline
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I think Voldemort Knows about Snape

I honestly think Voldemort knows...One fact being that in the Sorcerers Stone when Voldemort was attached to Quirrels head...Voldemort was obviously there with Quirrel and Snape, and in the GOF, Voldemort said when they were in the circle "One I think has lest me forever, he will be killed of course".....Voldemort is a pretty slick dude, but then again Snape could have convinced him otherwise being that he is skilled in Legilimency...so he is one of the few who could have lied to Voldemort....What do you guys think??

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  #456  
Old January 13th, 2005, 4:44 pm
cajitasazules  Female.gif cajitasazules is offline
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If Voldemort knows, he's going to manipulate and use Snape and then kill him. Voldemort looks to get what he can out of people and then drops them, so I wouldn't be surprised if he's "playing Snape" to get what he needs from him.

*crossing finger this isn't true*


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  #457  
Old January 13th, 2005, 5:32 pm
severa78  Female.gif severa78 is offline
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I think if Snape is actually still spying (and he seems to be doing something) then Voldemort would want to kill him if he found out.

Is it possible that Snape is only spying on fellow DE ("Malfoy, perhaps?") avoiding direct contact with Voldemort? This way he'd still gather a good bit of information for the Order and would be able to close his mind effectively. I doubt even Snape would be able to close his mind to Voldemort himself. It's still dangerous enough.

I believe Voldemort is getting suspicious but has to gather proof before killing him off. He wouldn't want to risk getting rid of a faithful DE so well placed until he's sure Snape's no longer fathful. He used Barty for the Big Plan because he wasn't so sure of Snape (and maybe because Barty volunteered)

I agree "the one who has left me forever" could be Bagman (but I must confess I did think of Snape when I read it the first time). I changed my mind after Ootp. One still in contact with former DE's doesn't seem to fit the description "forever".

Consider as well that Snape didn't turn up at the fight in the DoM so as not to blow his cover.. LV didn't seem surprised not to find him there.. Neither were the DE's. Maybe they just think he's less active than the rest of them.

Anyway, if Voldemort knows I expect we'll soon find out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by legallybrunette
If Voldemort knows, he's going to manipulate and use Snape and then kill him. Voldemort looks to get what he can out of people and then drops them, so I wouldn't be surprised if he's "playing Snape" to get what he needs from him.

*crossing finger this isn't true*
crossing fingers too

Sorry everyone. I'm just posting this to subscribe to thread (I'm new and still learning how things work)


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  #458  
Old January 13th, 2005, 5:39 pm
cajitasazules  Female.gif cajitasazules is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by severa78

Consider as well that Snape didn't turn up at the fight in the DoM so as not to blow his cover.. LV didn't seem surprised not to find him there.. Neither were the DE's. Maybe they just think he's less active than the rest of them.
to the forums! You'll have a lot of fun here.

You bring up a very good point. No one seemed to make a fuss over Snape not being in the DoM. We are not sure if he was in the graveyard, but if we assume he was not, that is the second major DE event in the series that Snape was not present for at all. It would seem Voldemort would get upset at this lack of participation, unless he knows why Snape is not there - cannot leave Hogwarts, is a double agent, etc.

It would be interesting to find out more about this and I feel it will be explored in the coming novels.


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  #459  
Old January 13th, 2005, 5:51 pm
adon_ch  Male.gif adon_ch is offline
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mmm.. this is really a very confusing topic... if snape didn't appear in the graveyard in GoF ... how didn't LV notice?... and yes, in the 1st book, Snape threatened quirrel and LV was there ... Plus, i'm sure snape couldn't disapparate and reappear in the graveyard since he was at hogwarts... but i don't remember in the books that it was clearly stated that snape was a spy inside LV's circle ... but i could be wrong there


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  #460  
Old January 16th, 2005, 5:09 am
i_luv_snuffles  Female.gif i_luv_snuffles is offline
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Hi, i'm Snuffy... i thought i would drop by and see what was going on!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by adon_ch
and yes, in the 1st book, Snape threatened quirrel and LV was there ...
thats a really good point... i never thought of that!!!

here's my thought... when the kids were serving their detention in the Forbidden Forest, Firenze saved Harry from Voldemort. so i was thinking that Voldemort left Quirrell at night to go into the forest and feed on the unicorns. if that is true, then Voldemort was not there when Snape threatened Quirrell...

but thats just my thought, i could be wrong...


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