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Do you think Voldemort knows that Snape is a spy?



 
 
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  #461  
Old January 16th, 2005, 4:17 am
AmyLeeL3E  Female.gif AmyLeeL3E is offline
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Maybe Voldy thinks that Snape is dead or something like that.. In GoF when the Death Eaters were listening to Voldy's speech, Voldy mencioned some Death Eaters that weren't there. But he didn't mencioned Snape. Hey! And he didn't say Karkaroff's name!



Last edited by AmyLeeL3E; January 16th, 2005 at 4:20 am.
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  #462  
Old January 16th, 2005, 3:22 pm
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Ok new theory by me... *drumroll*

I think that Voldemort doesn't know that Snape is a spy for the Order, but in book 6 his cover will be blown, and he has to go into hiding so Voldemort doesn't kill him, then there will be a new Potions teacher and Harry will be able to take N.E.W.T potions


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  #463  
Old January 16th, 2005, 7:03 pm
PatronusGyrll  Female.gif PatronusGyrll is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by i_luv_snuffles
Hi, i'm Snuffy... i thought i would drop by and see what was going on!!!



thats a really good point... i never thought of that!!!

here's my thought... when the kids were serving their detention in the Forbidden Forest, Firenze saved Harry from Voldemort. so i was thinking that Voldemort left Quirrell at night to go into the forest and feed on the unicorns. if that is true, then Voldemort was not there when Snape threatened Quirrell...

but thats just my thought, i could be wrong...


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You know Snuffy you have a good point....I didnt read the Sorcerers Stone, so is it the same in the book??...That was a good thought..now I am even more curious.....


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  #464  
Old January 16th, 2005, 7:28 pm
GinnyPotter101  Female.gif GinnyPotter101 is offline
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Crouch jr-- the most faithful
Karakoff--the one who left forever
Snape-- the one to cowardly to return
Why would snape be cowardly? Because he was a double spy... Voldy doesnt know that he is a DOUBLE spy... he thinks Snape is just a spy for him...Spies have to get close to the other side, wouldnt you be scared to have to continue spying for LV on DD? i think so....
Then again if Snape and Karakoff switched (snape the one who left forever), THen snape could've talked his way out of it....i guess... plus Harry wouldve seen it if snape or Karakoff was killed. Oh and LV wouldnt be surprised (neither would malfoy) to hear that Snape is working at the Order... HE is a SPY... what is he supposed to do...hide and try to sneak in? No! DD would have to tell him where headquarters is. The DE's must know where headquarters is b/c either kreacher would say where it was (which he cant) or the malfoy's wouldve asked and he wouldve said...i cant tell you....Then if kreacher could say that sirius was in it...and Supposedly snape...wouldnt they just ask Snape where it was.... couldnt he tell them Where it was...they just wouldnt be able to find the adress right (fidelus charm).....IM CONFUSED!
Oh and i think the reason DD trusts snape is b/c he told him about Lily and James... The Prophecy was overheard right? Well all DD wouldve known was that part of it was overheard.... Snape either overheard it... or heard LV planning to Kill the POtters. What would make DD trust him... telling him the plans of LV, especially since LV's plans were to kill someone snape would really like to see dead. Now Why would snape tell DD? 1. Because he needed to be LV's spy (makes me think he may have overheard it) 2. Because James saved his life once. In PS/SS Snape saves Harry because James saved him once, why would he still be in debt to James... because he didnt save james! If he chose to save harr b/c of this debt to James, wouldnt he have chosen to try to save James when the oppurtunity arose?


  #465  
Old January 16th, 2005, 10:50 pm
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Quote:
Crouch jr-- the most faithful
Karakoff--the one who left forever
Snape-- the one to cowardly to return
You can't assume these things! I think the first two are probably true, but we really can't know. We can't know whether Snape was even there or not.

And there's no way Voldemort doesn't know that Snape is alive and teaching at Hogwarts. Snape was teaching there before Voldemort's first fall. Oh yeah--and he would have seen him in book 1.


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  #466  
Old January 16th, 2005, 11:20 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs Flamel
You can't assume these things! I think the first two are probably true, but we really can't know. We can't know whether Snape was even there or not.

And there's no way Voldemort doesn't know that Snape is alive and teaching at Hogwarts. Snape was teaching there before Voldemort's first fall. Oh yeah--and he would have seen him in book 1.
I agree, Voldemort noticed Snape in book 1. However,
OoTP pg 363 US Hardcover:
"Now...how long have you been teaching at Hogwarts?" she asked, her quill posed over her clipboard.
"Fourteen years," Snape replied.

So, this is a bit ambiguous. Snape started teaching at about the time the first war ended. We really aren't sure if Snape was teaching there before Voldemort became Vapormort or not.


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Last edited by clkginny; January 16th, 2005 at 11:21 pm. Reason: spelling
  #467  
Old January 16th, 2005, 11:43 pm
PatronusGyrll  Female.gif PatronusGyrll is offline
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no no

In the Goblet of Fire in the Pensieve when Harry saw Karakoff naming Snape, Dumbledore said that Snape was a Deatheater, but he turned Spy before Voldemorts downfall....so we know that he was on our side before the night in Godrics Hollow...Not trying to correct you, just refreshing your memory...check out the Pensieve Chapter in the GOF
Its all getting confusing because there are so many things we want to know...I just cant wait until we are sitting here talking about Book 6..that cant come too soon for me..


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  #468  
Old January 17th, 2005, 3:09 am
FootbagFanatic09  Male.gif FootbagFanatic09 is offline
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Well Voldemort knows Snape was with him and left. So he knows Snape betrayed him. He also knows Snape is a professor at Hogwarts and he knows how wise dumbledore is and if Dumbledore lets Snape in then Voldemort automatically assumes Snape is gone to DD side.


  #469  
Old January 17th, 2005, 3:32 am
astaire  Female.gif astaire is offline
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How could Voldemort not know that Snape's a spy? He was in Quirrel's body when Snape threatened him. Voldemort's pretty smart. Either he's biding his time or Snape isn't doing what we think he's doing (and that's why he hasn't died yet).


  #470  
Old January 17th, 2005, 4:22 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astaire
How could Voldemort not know that Snape's a spy? He was in Quirrel's body when Snape threatened him. Voldemort's pretty smart. Either he's biding his time or Snape isn't doing what we think he's doing (and that's why he hasn't died yet).
Look at it from Quirellmort's point of view. No one is supposed to know that Voldemort is in Quirell's body. Any death eater worth the name would want the sorcerer's stone for themselves. So why would Voldemort be suspicious if he thinks that Snape is out to get the stone for himself?
Snape is an Occlumens/Liglimens, so he could be convincing Voldemort that he is really on his side while working for Dumbledore. Or he could be tricking Dumbledore. There hasn't yet been any evidence that Voldemort could suspect Snape. He probably does, because he is the kind of person to distrust everyone. However, he doesn't strike me as the type to kill a useful spy, if he feels the spy is still useful.


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  #471  
Old January 17th, 2005, 5:28 am
i_luv_snuffles  Female.gif i_luv_snuffles is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatronusGyrll
You know Snuffy you have a good point....I didnt read the Sorcerers Stone, so is it the same in the book??...That was a good thought..now I am even more curious.....
thanx!!! i think that stuff is the same in both Sorceror's & Philosopher's Stone... i never thought about it either until i came to this thread for the first time...


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  #472  
Old January 17th, 2005, 8:38 pm
GinnyPotter101  Female.gif GinnyPotter101 is offline
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OK... So we can know that snape wasnt there because YOU CANT APPARATE OR DISAPPARATE AT HOGWARTS!! jeez when are you gonna read Hogwarts, A History!! Anyway... Voldemort also couldnt know b/c DD said Snape turned spy for the order before VOldys fall. DUH! Voldy sent Snape to be a spy into the order and of COURSE told him to pretend to spy on Voldy... Voldy doesnt know that Snape really did switch sides. Oh and the other reason we know that snape was NOT in the circle..DD asked him if he was ready to do his job after harry returned...its pretty bvious that snapes job has something to do with spying... if he had already gone to VOldy would dd have needed to ask him?? NO!
Oh and in PS/SS snape didnt say anything that would make Voldemort suspect him..... nor did he say anything to tell us that he didnt know about Quirrelmort.... he may have.... he did know Quirrel was after the stone... DD and McGonnagall didnt even know that so he may have known about quirrelmort and just made it seem like he was after the stone himself..


  #473  
Old January 17th, 2005, 9:20 pm
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Well, at first I was thinking to myself that of course Voldemort doesn't know. Then I thought about it, and didn't Voldemort find out in SS? If Quirrel/Voldemort did in fact find out, Snape probably covered everything up or else he would have been one of the top of Voldemort's 'To Kill' list. If he doesn't know, then Snape will probably have to be extremely careful in the next book since Sirius' death and one wrong move could have it all blown away. I like _Lynz_ theory but not the part about him having to go in hiding - he'll probably stay at Hogwarts since Dumbledore is there but will have to be extremely cautious. Although, if Voldemort does know, he either found out recently and will do something about it in later books or he found out in SS/PS and hasn't done anything about it yet or won't do anything about it and forgot about it (unlikely). So actually, I'm not quite sure, but I do think that there's a much better possibility that Voldie doesn't know but he will find out in HBP.


  #474  
Old January 17th, 2005, 9:22 pm
Mizaru  Undisclosed.gif Mizaru is offline
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I don't have the time to really sit down and read all of these, but I honestly don't see how Voldemort could NOT know that Snape has switched sides. Remember in PS/SS when Snape was threatening Quirrell? Wasn't Voldemort *attached* to Quirrell then, keeping a close eye on his every movement?


  #475  
Old January 17th, 2005, 9:26 pm
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Voldemort thinks he has the perfect spy. I hope Dumbledore has the perfect spy. Both Voldemort and Dumbledore know Snape is spying for the other and they both think he is loyal to them.

In SS Voldemort would not ask Snape to help him. It would risk Dumbledore finding out Snape is loyal to Voldemort. Snape has to play the part of loyal to Dumbledore, this excuses all of his behavior in this book. Voldemort would not want to risk his spy if the plan failed.

Dumbledore would give Snape a way out of Hogwarts so that he could get to Voldemort faster. He also would not want to jeapardize his spy either. It also explains Snapes behavior toward Harry being ignored. Snape would have to put on a show for Malfoy.

The point is that any of his behavior can be explained to either side as necessary to his spying.

I think the better question is who is Snape really loyal to. I think this has been asked.


  #476  
Old January 17th, 2005, 9:49 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizaru
I don't have the time to really sit down and read all of these, but I honestly don't see how Voldemort could NOT know that Snape has switched sides. Remember in PS/SS when Snape was threatening Quirrell? Wasn't Voldemort *attached* to Quirrell then, keeping a close eye on his every movement?
I always attach this essay to anyone who questions how it would be possible, since the essay does such a great job with possible scenarios for any question dealing with if Snape could be a spy, or a double agent. It's an interesting read regardless, I'd highly recommend it for anyone who has questions surrounding Snape.

Double-00 Sevie


  #477  
Old January 17th, 2005, 10:02 pm
weasley  Female.gif weasley is offline
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I don't think he does, otherwise out Potions Master would be dead before you could say "cauldron". But Snape is really a complex character. Everything he does can be conter-acted by another thing.

Snape hates Harry. Harry is the One that can vanquish Voldemort and stopped wizard war 1, and could hate Harry for that. But Snape could also hate Harry because of his father, James. Does Snape hate Harry because of him stopping Voldemort in wizard war 1 or because of James? Or is it both? You can do this with most things Snape does.

Snape doesn't want Harry to compete in the Triwizard Tornament. Is it because he hates Harry(again, why does he hate Harry?) because he wants to keep Harry safe, or he doesn't want anyone to suspect him, at the end, to have anything to do with Voldemorts rebirth.

Snape is very complex, and we don't really have anyway of proving if he is, or isn't, a spy.


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  #478  
Old January 17th, 2005, 11:49 pm
chupachup07  Female.gif chupachup07 is offline
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I figured Snape was the "one that will never come back" or whatever, cause he wasn't there the night Cedric died.


  #479  
Old January 18th, 2005, 12:03 am
phineus  Male.gif phineus is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newt
At this point Voldemort knowing Snape is a spy isn't going to change much. Snape abandoned Voldemort, he's already a marked man. Voldemort even states this in the GoF when explaining the six missing spaces in the Death Eaters.

And here we have six missing Death Eaters...three dead in my service [Evan Rosier, Travers, and Wilkes] . One too cowardly to return [Karkaroff] ...he will pay. One, who I believe has left me forever [Snape] ...he will be killed, of course...and one, who remains my most faithful servant, and who was already reentered my service [Crouch, Jr.].
I agree with your assessment of the missing Death Eaters except that I see one other possibility. Between Karkaroff and Snape and depending on events right before Voldemort's fall, Snape might be, in Voldemort's eyes, the one that is too cowardly to return. This is all speculation on my part, and we know that Karkaroff left very afraid at the end of GoF, but we also know that Snape has been going on very important missions for the Order. Snape and Lucius Malfoy have been at the very least cordial if not pleasant to each other. I think Lucius would openly hate Snape if Voldemort knew that Snape was the spy. Snape being an expert in Legillimens and Occlumency aided me in forming this opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chupachup07
I figured Snape was the "one that will never come back" or whatever, cause he wasn't there the night Cedric died.
Either was Karkaroff!!


  #480  
Old January 18th, 2005, 12:10 am
Accio_Rupert_Grint  Female.gif Accio_Rupert_Grint is offline
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If Snape really is a spy and is contacting the Malfoys, why would Lucius tell him anything? I mean, Lucius knows that Snape was a deatheater and that he left, which to me seems like the ultimate betrayal in the eyes of a loyal deatheater. We know Snape is no longer a deatheater, so there's no way he could be on good terms with Voldermort enough to be able to get information ( it just seems logical to me that if he was trying to spy on Voldermort, he would be deatheater again, because Voldermort would have no reason to trust him, especially after he left) .

If you've followed me so far, you've maybe realized I'm confused, so therefore I have a few questions:

1.Is Snape REALLY a spy?

2. If so, then WHY would Lucius Malfoy or Voldermort let him have any important information (he did make a MAJOR betrayal after all)?

3. If Snape isn't getting his information from Malfoy or Voldermort, where IS he getting it from?

Okay, I hope this all makes sense...


 
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