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Do you think Voldemort knows that Snape is a spy?



 
 
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  #481  
Old January 18th, 2005, 1:13 am
clock_work_child  Undisclosed.gif clock_work_child is offline
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I think that if he is still spying, he will be found out late in the 6th book or early in the 7th book.

He might not be killed. Voldemort and his Death Eaters would find just as much fun in tourting him to within an inch of his life, leaving him with as little brain power as the Longbottoms.


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  #482  
Old January 18th, 2005, 1:21 am
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I think Snape spying through Malfoy could be possible as if Malfoy had known Snape was a spy all the years since LV's downfall why would Draco been saying things like how highly his father regards snape and how he would have had his fathers vote in COS when DD was suspended?


  #483  
Old January 18th, 2005, 1:56 am
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I don't understand why everyone thinks Snape is one of the three mentioned. How many times has Rowling made something so apparent only for it to something completely different. I admit I could be wrong. It the same thing that has nagged me about the Lion man that everyone thinks is the next DADA teacher. I have found that with Rowling the first thing that pops into your mind is usually wrong.

Everyone keeps saying Snape is not a death eater HE IS there is no other way he could spy and not be dead. If he is telling Dumbledore the truth then I would think this is very hard to do. Imagine turning your back on something you have always believed in because you realise it is wrong and then being sent back to act like nothing has changed.

Let me recap:

SNAPE IS A SPY

SNAPE IS A DEATH EATER (though not in his heart anymore)

BOTH DUMBLEDORE AND VOLDEMORT THINK HE'S ON THEIR SIDES

and I truely hope that Dumbledore is right.


  #484  
Old January 18th, 2005, 3:18 am
padfoot1128  Male.gif padfoot1128 is offline
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Problem

I think He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named already knows he is a spy. In the fourth book when all the death eaters are gathered at the cematary he comes to a space in the DA's and says, (not exact words), "6 people are missing. three are dead. one is two cowardly to return, one has left me forever, he will be killed, and the other is my most faithful. he is stationed at hogwarts. he put potters name in the goblet of fire and he made sure he got through all the tasks," ect. This is where everyone stands:

The one two cowardly to return = either Karkaroff or snape
The one who has left me forever = either snape or Karkaroff
The one stationed at hogwarts = Crouch (alias moody)


soooo, who knows?


  #485  
Old January 18th, 2005, 3:44 am
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I think Voldemort knows that Snape is a spy, although I havent read it in awhile, I think I remember in the Fourth book after Voldemort had gotten a body he was going around the circle of Death Eaters and while observing the empty spots he made a few comments about a traitor and one who has left them forever, Snape may have been the one he was refering to, and yes, I do believe that he will kill snape


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  #486  
Old January 18th, 2005, 10:58 pm
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Ah, but padfoot1128, why does it have to be those three? might Bagman fit into one of those slots? it would be a lovely symmetry: we saw three trials in the pensieve, and there are three DE (or ex-DEs) mentioned in the graveyard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by just me
I don't understand why everyone thinks Snape is one of the three mentioned. How many times has Rowling made something so apparent only for it to something completely different


To the statement that Snape couldn't have apparated from Hogwarts: I direct you to Maline Freden's articles, in particular numbers 15 and 16. She addresses this.

Also I'd like to reiterate Double-00 Sevvie that Atheralla posted last page. Not to sound snotty, but I believe these are essential reads for this discussion, otherwise, many of our arguments seem ridiculous.

Whether Snape started working at Hogwarts before LV's first fall, Voldemort knows about it now. it's also possible that he knows what Albus said about Snape at Karkaroff's hearing. But Snape is alive and breathing, and we know how LV treats those who are not faithful to him. Would he honestly think Snape is just working as a teacher and not corresponding about DE activity with Albus? No-he's not naive. He either finds this situation acceptable (as in Snape is feeding back helpful info to LV with or wothout Albus' knowledge) or he hasn't chosen to act upon it yet. (So far as we know, he hasn't acted to kill the traitor at all--it could be that he's had his hands full reorganizing and getting his hands on the prophecy.)


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  #487  
Old January 18th, 2005, 11:23 pm
PatronusGyrll  Female.gif PatronusGyrll is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just_me
I don't understand why everyone thinks Snape is one of the three mentioned. How many times has Rowling made something so apparent only for it to something completely different. I admit I could be wrong. It the same thing that has nagged me about the Lion man that everyone thinks is the next DADA teacher. I have found that with Rowling the first thing that pops into your mind is usually wrong.

Everyone keeps saying Snape is not a death eater HE IS there is no other way he could spy and not be dead. If he is telling Dumbledore the truth then I would think this is very hard to do. Imagine turning your back on something you have always believed in because you realise it is wrong and then being sent back to act like nothing has changed.

Let me recap:

SNAPE IS A SPY

SNAPE IS A DEATH EATER (though not in his heart anymore)

BOTH DUMBLEDORE AND VOLDEMORT THINK HE'S ON THEIR SIDES

and I truely hope that Dumbledore is right.
Exactly...and if anyone needs any proof without all the other stuff being said..Snape does have the Dark Mark on his wrist, as you all remember when he freaked out in the GOF and showed it to Fudge, and (I am repeating myself from another post) Dumbledore did say Snape "was" A Deatheater. but turned spy before Voldemorts fall...I agree with the other post that said Voldemort was quite busy trying to retrieve the Prophecy..so I think in Book 6 we may see what Voldemort is truly capable of, because I really dont think there are anymore "weapons" he can go after, so he is going to be in a cold blooded fury. I dont think we have seen yet the lengths that Voldemort is going to reach to get what he wants most, and we all know that is Harry being killed, and all tose close to him. I just cant wait to read the book already so we can sit here and talk about everything that has happened. Great Debate you guys..everyone has awesome theories!!


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  #488  
Old January 19th, 2005, 4:29 am
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My hope and theory is that when Snape decided to go tho the good side, to cover his butt (he is slytherin), he went to Voldemort with an idea. "Why don't I tell Dumbledore that I've changed (nod nod wink wink) and I want to help him spy on you (as if anyone is dumb enough to do this) he's a trusting fool" and off he went to Dumbledore. By doing this he guaranteed a reason for his actions.


  #489  
Old January 19th, 2005, 4:41 am
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In my opinion, Voldemort has already learnt from someone that Snape is a spy... Voldemort is just waiting for the wright moment to use him for some hidden purpose (or perhaps just for getting useful information to kill Harry). He will probably enjoy and find it fun to make Snape think
that he trust on him...


  #490  
Old January 19th, 2005, 4:50 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs Flamel
Ah, but padfoot1128, why does it have to be those three? might Bagman fit into one of those slots? it would be a lovely symmetry: we saw three trials in the pensieve, and there are three DE (or ex-DEs) mentioned in the graveyard.



To the statement that Snape couldn't have apparated from Hogwarts: I direct you to Maline Freden's articles, in particular numbers 15 and 16. She addresses this.

Also I'd like to reiterate Double-00 Sevvie that Atheralla posted last page. Not to sound snotty, but I believe these are esential reads for this discussion, otherwise, many of our arguments seem ridiculous.

Whether Snape started working at Hogwarts before LV's first fall, Voldemort knows about it now. it's also possible that he knows what Albus said about Snape at Karkaroff's hearing. But Snape is alive and breathing, and we know how LV treats those who are not faithful to him. Would he honestly think Snape is just working as a teacher and not corresponding about DE activity with Albus? No-he's not naive. He either finds this situation acceptable (as in Snape is feeding back helpful info to LV with or wothout Albus' knowledge) or he hasn't chosen to act upon it yet. (So far as we know, he hasn't acted to kill the traitor at all--it could be that he's had his hands full reorganizing and getting his hands on the prophecy.)
I don't think he's so busy he couldn't say Malfoy next time you see Snape kill him. Voldemort still thinks he's usefull.

Please read those articles so nicely provided by Mrs Flamel


  #491  
Old January 19th, 2005, 4:15 pm
PatronusGyrll  Female.gif PatronusGyrll is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just_me
My hope and theory is that when Snape decided to go tho the good side, to cover his butt (he is slytherin), he went to Voldemort with an idea. "Why don't I tell Dumbledore that I've changed (nod nod wink wink) and I want to help him spy on you (as if anyone is dumb enough to do this) he's a trusting fool" and off he went to Dumbledore. By doing this he guaranteed a reason for his actions.
I am not totally sure that would work with Dumbledore though. We know he is brilliant and an accomplished Legilimens...so I am not sure he could be fooled, especially by someone he knows to have been a Deatheater.....but then again I have often asked myself why Dumbledore didnt somehow pick up that in the GOF Barty Crouch was Moody...so I guess we will have to see. I really cant trust Snape because he has so much hate, and honestly why would he want to go to Hogwarts ?...He is a complex character and I think we will need to learn alot more about his past and reasons for leaving Voldemort in the first place. He obviously is keeping up the Spy story, otherwise I dont think Lucius would talk with him so kindly...


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  #492  
Old January 19th, 2005, 5:58 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatronusGyrll
I am not totally sure that would work with Dumbledore though. We know he is brilliant and an accomplished Legilimens...so I am not sure he could be fooled, especially by someone he knows to have been a Deatheater.....but then again I have often asked myself why Dumbledore didnt somehow pick up that in the GOF Barty Crouch was Moody...so I guess we will have to see. I really cant trust Snape because he has so much hate, and honestly why would he want to go to Hogwarts ?...He is a complex character and I think we will need to learn alot more about his past and reasons for leaving Voldemort in the first place. He obviously is keeping up the Spy story, otherwise I dont think Lucius would talk with him so kindly...
I think you misunderstood me. Everything he said to Voldemort was **. I think (hope) Snape is on Dumbledore's side. I think Dumbledore gives Snape information to tell Voldemort and Voldemort gives Snape information to tell Dumbledore. I just hope that Snape gives Dumbledore more info than Voldemort wants him to.


  #493  
Old January 19th, 2005, 6:05 pm
Mountainforest  Undisclosed.gif Mountainforest is offline
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Snape is good at occlumency. That sounds like a necesaire ability to spy for voldemort. Furthermore snape has been teaching at Hoghwarts from two years before Harry was born, so I guess Dumbledore got his reason to thrusth him then.

In the pensieve we saw that Snape hadn't a very pleasent youth, so that would be his reason for being so fascinated about the dark arts.


  #494  
Old January 19th, 2005, 8:36 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by padfoot1128
The one two cowardly to return = either Karkaroff or snape
The one who has left me forever = either snape or Karkaroff
The one stationed at hogwarts = Crouch (alias moody)
If we assume that the one who´s too cowardly to return is Karkaroff, then the one who´s gone forever must be Snape. That´d mean that Voldemort knows he changed sides. If Snape is going back again, he´ll have to convince Voldemort that he didn´t turn his back on him. And because he´s good in Occlumency he should be able to do so. So, no, I don´t think Voldemort knows Snape´s a spy.


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  #495  
Old January 19th, 2005, 9:00 pm
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I thinkthat Voldemort knows it.Snape is teaching at hogwarts. I don't know if Voldemort trusts a person who got a job at hogwarts after his disappearance. Dumbledore and Voldemort are having a great plan. And Snape is an important person.
And I think that also Dumbledore knows that Voldemort knows that Snape is a spy. And so both of them are thinking that Snape helps them. The risk is when Voldemort doesn't needs him he would kill Snape immedeatly.


  #496  
Old January 20th, 2005, 4:14 pm
PatronusGyrll  Female.gif PatronusGyrll is offline
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okay

Quote:
Originally Posted by just_me
I think you misunderstood me. Everything he said to Voldemort was **. I think (hope) Snape is on Dumbledore's side. I think Dumbledore gives Snape information to tell Voldemort and Voldemort gives Snape information to tell Dumbledore. I just hope that Snape gives Dumbledore more info than Voldemort wants him to.

Wow say that 3 times fast
Sorry for the misunderstanding....


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  #497  
Old January 20th, 2005, 7:05 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatronusGyrll
Wow say that 3 times fast
Sorry for the misunderstanding....
Sorry, my brain runs faster than my fingers.


  #498  
Old January 21st, 2005, 12:34 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ydnotkm
I thinkthat Voldemort knows it.Snape is teaching at hogwarts. I don't know if Voldemort trusts a person who got a job at hogwarts after his disappearance. Dumbledore and Voldemort are having a great plan. And Snape is an important person.
And I think that also Dumbledore knows that Voldemort knows that Snape is a spy. And so both of them are thinking that Snape helps them. The risk is when Voldemort doesn't needs him he would kill Snape immedeatly.
I think Voldemort know a lot more than we think he does, and of course he knows that Snape is teaching at Hogwarts and he probably knows that Snape is being sent to him (if Snape is infact being sent to Voldemort - we haven't been told what he has been doing have we?) to spy on him. I'm sure Snape and Dumbledore know Voldemort well enough to realise that he knows what they are up to.
Ok, even I am confusing my self now.


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  #499  
Old January 21st, 2005, 12:38 am
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No one can lie to the Dark Lord, the Dark Lord always knows.
Quote:
"Do not say the Dark Lord's name!" spat Snape.
Quote:
"Dumbledore is an extremely powerful wizzard," Snape muttered. "While he may feel secure enough to use the name...the rest of us..."
This comes from Ootp and it shows that Snape fears Voldemort greatly. It also tells us that Snape is no match for Voldemort. If Snape is returning to Voldemort to spy on him and the DE's I am sure Voldemort will know. Voldemort is much to powerful for Snape.
Quote:
"And here we have six missing Death Eaters... three dead in my service. One to cowardly to return...he will pay. One, who I believe has left me forever... he will be killed,"
This is from Gof, Karkaroff is the coward, Snape is believed to have left forever. This shows that Voldemort is already onto Snape and he will be killed.


  #500  
Old January 21st, 2005, 12:43 am
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Quote:
"And here we have six missing Death Eaters... three dead in my service. One to cowardly to return...he will pay. One, who I believe has left me forever... he will be killed,"
At that point we don't know who Voldemort is talking about, do we? I haven't got the book to hand (too lazy to run upstairs and get it) so I'm not sure whether it's 'Moody' that says Karkaroff has fled, after Harry is out of the maze.


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