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Do you think Voldemort knows that Snape is a spy?



 
 
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  #81  
Old May 30th, 2004, 1:42 am
praisequeenfreddie  Female.gif praisequeenfreddie is offline
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Well, he knows Snape has left his service, but i do not know if he reckons that Snape is a spy. But then when he was stuck on the back of Quirells head he must have had time to think things through and the idea probably popped into his less then human head.


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  #82  
Old May 30th, 2004, 1:56 am
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Originally Posted by praisequeenfreddie
Well, he knows Snape has left his service, but i do not know if he reckons that Snape is a spy. But then when he was stuck on the back of Quirells head he must have had time to think things through and the idea probably popped into his less then human head.
As far as we know, only the Order of the Phoenix know that Snape is a member of the order. I suspect that the entire Order doesn't know for safety's sake. We've had no indication that Quirrell was a member of the Order, so thereby I believe that Snape wouldn't have done anything out of the ordinary, that would have led Quirrell believe that he was a spy for the Order. Snape is smarter than that, particularly since from what Harry overheard, Snape seemed to think that Quirrell was working for Voldermort.


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  #83  
Old May 30th, 2004, 3:45 am
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Snape must be an extremely good spy if Voldemort does not know what he is up to...I'm trying to rememer...Snape obviously does not show up at the graveyard where Harry is "portkeyed" to in GoF...or does he??? **checks the book**
I agree. However Snape does it he does it damnable well. He's one of the few spies I've heard of to switch sides, turn spy for the good side, act all buddy buddy with people in league with Voldemort and still live to tell the tale. I don't think that Snape was in the grave yard becasue of what he said to Karkaroff. Jarkarooff chose to run and hide but Snape told him that he'd stand his ground. I don't think that Snape was at the ceremony becasue he'd have a heck of a time explaining to everyone else where he disappeared to for several hours at the same time that Harry and Cedric were transported. What would he have said? Oh, I was just taking a nice stroll through the forest? Also Snape was with Mcgonagall and Dumbledore when they blasted through the door and stunned Crouch. The time periods wouldn't match up if Snape had been there. There wouldn't have been enough time.

Voldemort has to know by now, becasue even though Snape's clever Voldemort is smarter. Snape for all his intelligence in potions and occlumency is still intimidated by Voldemort and he shows some reverance for him. Snape is afraid of Voldemort even though he risks his life as a spy. Voldemort most likely does know about Snape but I believe he's just waiting for the right time to finish Snape off.

For now all we can really do is speculate becasue everything we do know about Snape can only lead to theories and assumptions. We know for fact:
-Snape had a rough childhood
-that he risked his life by switching sides at the height of Voldemort's power
-That Dumbledore trusts him despite everything that's happened
-Snape was never even accused of being a DE (Sirius told us that) and that he was aquitted of all charges bc Dumbledore vouched for him
-Dumbledore refuses to give him the DA job becasue he believes it may bring out the worst in him
-That when Snape first came to school he knew more dark arts than some 7th years, and that he's a potions master and superb with occlumeny/legilems
-Somehow Snape has managed to keep close ties with people like Lucius Malfoy.

Yet despite all that what does it really tell us? Can we really draw anything from this? It all appears to lead up to the assumption that Snape is acting as a double agent or that he plans to screw both sides over. The main problem is that Voldemort wants to kill him and if Snape is working for Voldemort than the onyl reason he's still alive is becasue Voldemort plans to use him now and kill him later. All we have so far are theories that don't fit together or are holeier than swiss cheese.

The only thing that realy has to be true is that Voldemort knows about Snape. Dummbledore testified for him so Voldemort most likely does know now.


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  #84  
Old May 30th, 2004, 3:24 pm
RadicaL  Male.gif RadicaL is offline
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That question has always hindered me. Voldemort knows that Snape has left him and joined Dumbledore but wouldn't Voldemort try to do something like punish Snape or even kill him for his betrayal? But the weird thing is, Voldemort only spoke about Snape one time. I find that completely bizarre to only bring up Snape one time when he once served under the Dark Lord and has now abandoned him. He must go punished and it's not like Voldemort to not do something to get back at Snape. Also, another weird thing is the close relationship between Lucius and Snape. We know that Lucius will tell Snape very important information like when he told Snape he had seen Sirius on the platform, so why doesn't he just bag Snape and give him to Voldemort or why doesn't Voldemort tell Lucius to bring Snape to him?! It just doesn't to make sense. The only things I can think of to counter-part what i have said is that Lucius never knew that Snape was a Death Eater or maybe Voldemort is waiting for the right time to attack Snape for revenge or to use him against Dumbledore. And I think that the only way Snape could be spying on Voldemort is by either being an animagus or he is a vampire. I know not a lot of people think it's possible because we have seen Snape show minimal signs to suggest this but remember how Snape made a concoction for Lupin to control his werewolf behavior, well maybe he had done the same for himself.


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  #85  
Old May 30th, 2004, 3:33 pm
Antipodean  Female.gif Antipodean is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RadicaL
...He must go punished and it's not like Voldemort to not do something to get back at Snape...
Perhaps Snape is related to Voldemort; a half brother or something. We don't know what the Muggle Tom was up to before Voldemort killed him. Maybe he hooked up with another witch and had Snape, who took his mother's last name after Muggle Tom (it's really fun calling him that) left. If Snape really was related to Voldemort and wasn't a muggle, perhaps the evil darklord has realized that blood runs thicker than water and won't kill him... Just a theory. I'm probably completely off, but it could happen.


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  #86  
Old May 30th, 2004, 8:59 pm
deadlocked  Male.gif deadlocked is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Discordia
Yeah, Voldemort's not stupid and he knows what's going on with his DE's. If Snape was at that ceremony we'd have known about it. Also I don't see how he could have been in two places at once. Voldemort kind of has to know by now becasue Snape's clever but not that clever.
Ya i agree. Snape is clever but we all know what a genius Tom Riddle is! He must
be using Snape some way that will hurt Dumbledore


  #87  
Old May 31st, 2004, 3:31 am
Adrelamas  Male.gif Adrelamas is offline
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Does Voldemort know Snape is a spy? Yes. But the real question is, a spy for WHO? I think Snape is being the 'perfect' Slytherin. I think he's playing both sides against each other. I think he's feeding information to the Order, and he's feeding information to the Death Eaters.

I do think that Voldemort plans on killing Snape, but with Snape at Hogwarts, and apparently so well thought of by Dumbledore, that it is just too tempting of a situation to end on a fit of revenge. They always say revenge is a dish best served cold.

I'll give you two predictions. One... Snape will somehow lead Dumbledore to his death. (Which I hope doesn't happen, I like DD, but I just don't have much hope for him living the entire series out.) Two..... Harry will save Snape, despite everything the two of them have been through, including the death of Dumbledore.


  #88  
Old May 31st, 2004, 4:01 am
Dagmar  Female.gif Dagmar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RadicaL
That question has always hindered me. Voldemort knows that Snape has left him and joined Dumbledore but wouldn't Voldemort try to do something like punish Snape or even kill him for his betrayal? But the weird thing is, Voldemort only spoke about Snape one time. I find that completely bizarre to only bring up Snape one time when he once served under the Dark Lord and has now abandoned him. He must go punished and it's not like Voldemort to not do something to get back at Snape. Also, another weird thing is the close relationship between Lucius and Snape. We know that Lucius will tell Snape very important information like when he told Snape he had seen Sirius on the platform, so why doesn't he just bag Snape and give him to Voldemort or why doesn't Voldemort tell Lucius to bring Snape to him?! It just doesn't to make sense. The only things I can think of to counter-part what i have said is that Lucius never knew that Snape was a Death Eater or maybe Voldemort is waiting for the right time to attack Snape for revenge or to use him against Dumbledore. And I think that the only way Snape could be spying on Voldemort is by either being an animagus or he is a vampire. I know not a lot of people think it's possible because we have seen Snape show minimal signs to suggest this but remember how Snape made a concoction for Lupin to control his werewolf behavior, well maybe he had done the same for himself.
This has bothered me too. I finished rereading PoA, (to get ready for the movie), and was struck with the fact that Pettigrew escapes and goes to Voldemort. Snape, if he is a spy, will definately be aware of this. So why doesn't he alert anyone at the beginning of book four? At the end of book 3 he is all but insane about believing that Black has made up the whole story about Pettigrew. Even still, he would have definately heard about the "Dark Lord" coming back around. I would think he would be terrified of this and alert DD.
He is described as "Lucious Malfoy's lap dog". Is Lucious playing him? Believing whatever line of ** Snape has given in order to pump him with false info?
hmmm.


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Last edited by Dagmar; May 31st, 2004 at 4:04 am.
  #89  
Old May 31st, 2004, 4:21 am
OmarGama  Male.gif OmarGama is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirius83
Nah, i doubt it. I have a feeling Snape's cover may be blown during book 6 though.
Yeah, I agree with you, maybe he will last until 6th book.


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  #90  
Old May 31st, 2004, 4:56 am
lupin14388  Male.gif lupin14388 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagmar
This has bothered me too. I finished rereading PoA, (to get ready for the movie), and was struck with the fact that Pettigrew escapes and goes to Voldemort. Snape, if he is a spy, will definately be aware of this. So why doesn't he alert anyone at the beginning of book four? At the end of book 3 he is all but insane about believing that Black has made up the whole story about Pettigrew. Even still, he would have definately heard about the "Dark Lord" coming back around. I would think he would be terrified of this and alert DD.
He is described as "Lucious Malfoy's lap dog". Is Lucious playing him? Believing whatever line of ** Snape has given in order to pump him with false info?
hmmm.
Was the order around at the end of book 3 for Snape to spy for. In my opinion, Snape could be on either side. He is clearly skilled at occlumency, enough that he says he can lie around Voldemort, a very giftet legilimens. DD is also a gifted legilimens, so Snape could be lying to either side, and neither side would know it. I think his true intentions will show in book 6, and he will pick a side. Snape is a crucial part of the order, so i hope he stays with them.


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  #91  
Old June 2nd, 2004, 8:14 pm
Legnar  Female.gif Legnar is offline
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I didn't realize until I read it in this thread, but it's true. Dumbledore told the court that Snape was a spy for their side, so most people would know and I think that even Malfoy, though he's not in the court as I believe, would, through his "connections", have got to know that Snape was a spy and now Voldemort's back he surely told him. So Voldemort MUST know Snape's been a spy.
Now the question is, why doesn't Voldemort kill Snape? Is he planning to use him against the Order or Dumbledore? But then Voldemort and the other Deatheaters would be bound to treat him differently and I'm sure he would realize. Apart from that Snape IS actually providing reports of the deatheaters' plans that help to frustrate them. So I don't really understand that.
One possible solution might be that Snape could amazingly convince Voldemort that he needed to provide Dumbledore with information to be able to provide voldemort with news either, but only gave away unimportant things when Voldemort held power last time.
Or he really uses some kind of polyjuice thing. But who would he be turning into then? I mean it must be a dead deatheater OR Karkaroff.
If he turned into Karkaroff the problem would be solved, but we'd have another problem. As Karkaroff he'd have no excuse to not help with the underground operations, such as getting Harry in the ministry of magic.
I don't believe it's a problem that the polyjuice effect only carries an hour since we never heard Voldemort talking to his deatheaters for longer than some minutes.
I personally believe he kind of convinced Voldemort that he was always on his side...


  #92  
Old June 3rd, 2004, 1:21 am
Nymphadora*  Female.gif Nymphadora* is offline
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Voldemort could know that Snape is a spy. But i think that for sure, he believes that Snape is not on his side. Voldemort will never allow Snape back into the fold. Firstly, if Snape tried to rejoin, Voldemort has to be careful and might say that Snape might be going back to him so that he could return to the MOm and Dumbledore and tell him everything like how many death eaters there are, and other strategic plans.

As well, like Sirius said, that being a death eater is life long commitment and alligence or suffer death. You don't just go to Voldemort and back down later. If Snape tried to come back, Voldemort would murder him for not coming back to him right away when he called them into the graveyard. Voldemort even said in the graveyard that 1 follower ran away, 1 is still loyal (or was considering that was Mr. Crouch's son he was referring to then) and 1 has left me forever. The one that had left him forever was Snape. (the one who ran away was obviously Karkaroff) Voldemort would never let Snape back into the fold. he has his own right to be suspiscous of him, and it would omit too great a risk to let him back in, incase he went back to the Ministry and leaked out information.


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  #93  
Old June 3rd, 2004, 1:25 am
Da_Chinkster  Male.gif Da_Chinkster is offline
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If LV didnt know and Snape went back, it wouldnt take two seconds for LV to work it out. I reckon LV can tell when a person is hiding something and would spot it in Snape. However he probably does know considering LV saw Snape working in Hogwarts and how Snape tried to keep Quirrell away fromt he Philosphers stone


  #94  
Old June 3rd, 2004, 3:56 am
SpicyBurger8  Female.gif SpicyBurger8 is offline
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How do we know Snape is a spy? They never actually said it directly... Maybe that's what Rowling wants us to think? Hmm... He probably is but you never know... But Voldemort isn't dumb. He's good at Legilimency (Sp.) and so wouldn't he know Snape was lying if he said he wasn't on Dumbledore's side? Maybe he's doing something else for the Order/Dumbledore that has to do with the Death Eaters. I just read this over and it sounds kind of dumb and far out but like I said you never know...


  #95  
Old June 3rd, 2004, 3:57 am
SpicyBurger8  Female.gif SpicyBurger8 is offline
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OOPS! I just realized they DID say Snape was a spy. My bad. Don't read what I said... I'm an idiot.


  #96  
Old June 3rd, 2004, 9:28 am
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I think that like everyone has already said, Snape is vulnerable to Voldemort assuming he is the one Voldemort was refering to. The only reason Snape's still alive is becasue Voldemort can't get to him at the school while he's under Dumbledore's protection there. If Snape just up and or something, Dumbledore would probably naturally suspect it to be murder becasue Snape's knows a ton about the dark arts and potions so he'd be able to defend himself. Not just any old wizard could finish Snape of that quickly and I doubt even Lucius could just finish him off that easily. Snape knows how to keep himself alive. If Voldemort knows about Snape he's probably going to use him against himself and than kill him when the time comes.


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"Mr. Padfoot would like to register his astonishment that an idiot like that ever became a professor."

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  #97  
Old June 3rd, 2004, 11:27 am
Padfoot_001  Female.gif Padfoot_001 is offline
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Well ... this could already have been put forward, I'll be honest, theres too many things for me to read them all as much as I love Harry Potter, so anyway....
My oppinion, I know Voldamort's not stupid, no way mate, but still... I don't believe that he knows about Snape betraying him. I believe that Voldamort believes that (confusing isn't it? ) Snape is a spy for him at Hogwarts, and perhaps he is.... we just dunno ... mind you I love Snape heaps, I'm not trying to accuse the fellow or anything.
So yeah bit from Myself here... if voldamort knew Snape had betrayed him, then he would be dead... D, E, D ... ded, beleive me ... its whatI would have done...... so yeah.

Hope that made sense guys!


  #98  
Old June 3rd, 2004, 11:48 am
percivalwulfric  Male.gif percivalwulfric is offline
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in the first post or something someone put foward about him not appearing in the grave yard. thats a good point altho he couldnt get to the grave yard because you cant apparate in the grounds of Hogwarts. I think voldie doesn't know that snape is a spy because snape is a clever man. he is also highly skilled at occulmens and legilimens so he can stop voldie delving into his mind. and also he can block out ths signs of himself lying.

Who knows??


  #99  
Old June 21st, 2004, 7:44 pm
cajitasazules  Female.gif cajitasazules is offline
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Just want to chime in with my two cents on the matter...

IMHO, I don't think that Voldemort knows about Snape because of his occulmency skills. Snape may also be using the pensieve (Dumbledore's or a private one) to hide his feelings that he does not want Voldemort to find. (If he's a double agent, then he could also be filtering memories against the OotP.)

Voldemort was probably too week when he was possessing Quirrell, so he may not have realized that Snape had left him. Snape may have sensed that Voldemort was nearby.

As for the fate of Snape. I really hope he lives. If JKR has him killed, it might mean having him die like a hero (self-sacrifice for the Order, etc.), depending on how it is portrayed. Based on her "evil" comments about what will come out about Snape, it's odd she would have him die in this way. If Snape is the DADA prof in book 7, then I would guess he's a goner or he'll be the first to survive and live.


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  #100  
Old June 22nd, 2004, 6:20 pm
KingsleysCool67  Undisclosed.gif KingsleysCool67 is offline
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No, He doesent know. We know that snape has a very quick mind, like when he blames potter, and hes normaly right. but he ahs is a legimine or whatever, which means voldemort cant detect it if he lies. I also think that because he was frends with old death eaters in school he must have known sirius before they met james.
but why is he so mean to hermoine's brain, does she remind him of lily? or is it because shes a mudblood


 
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