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Do you think Voldemort knows that Snape is a spy?



 
 
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  #141  
Old June 28th, 2004, 5:08 pm
Floria  Female.gif Floria is offline
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I think that Voldemort thinks that Snape is PRETENDING to spy ON him, in order to ACTUALLY spy FOR him (sorry about the capitalization...I got carrried away...). While Voldy is intelligent and a very powerful legilimens, I think that Snape has outsmarted him this time. I also don't think that Snape is spying incognito, or through another, at all. I think he's definetely doing it in person, taking "risk your life" to the extreme. However, it is likely that he's teetering on the edge of Voldemort's favour at the present, though I believe he managed to convince Voldy that he was spying for him all along (clever [intriguing] devil!).


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  #142  
Old June 28th, 2004, 5:09 pm
Floria  Female.gif Floria is offline
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Sorry, mods, about the pic. I did change it to something smaller, and will fix it momentarily!!!!


  #143  
Old June 28th, 2004, 5:13 pm
Till  Female.gif Till is offline
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Er...this is kinda unsensitive but, that would realy make the whole Aurror thing much easyer for Harry... "sorry Snivelus "


  #144  
Old June 28th, 2004, 5:16 pm
Till  Female.gif Till is offline
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I think you should read the NT!
Snape could olso be spying as himself, maybe he WAS there at the graveyard....


  #145  
Old June 28th, 2004, 5:19 pm
Cobra245063  Male.gif Cobra245063 is offline
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How could Snape be showing his face to Voldemort??? Voldemort already signed his Death Warrent (no pun intended). I think that Snape is infact trying to persuade other Death Eaters to join him and have them spy for Dumbledore and report to Snape.


  #146  
Old June 28th, 2004, 5:30 pm
tonks181  Female.gif tonks181 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobra245063
Why wouldn't he live to tell Crabbe's tales??? if he just puts the curse on him he could control him from miles away like Voldy did with Crouch SR.
It's not a problem of distance, if Snape had to control Crabbe it'd mean that he couldn't do the spying posing as himself and that'd mean Voldemort knows he 's a traitor and if LV knows that i can't see him leaving Snape well alone.


  #147  
Old June 28th, 2004, 5:32 pm
Cobra245063  Male.gif Cobra245063 is offline
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Even if he told Voldy that he was going to stay at Hogwarts and spy for him there just as a cover... that would give him an excuse to stay away from Voldy


  #148  
Old June 28th, 2004, 5:36 pm
tonks181  Female.gif tonks181 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobra245063
Even if he told Voldy that he was going to stay at Hogwarts and spy for him there just as a cover... that would give him an excuse to stay away from Voldy
duh???


  #149  
Old June 28th, 2004, 6:17 pm
cajitasazules  Female.gif cajitasazules is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobra245063
No the missing ingredients were taken before Voldy came back so there would be no need for Snape to take it then.
Possibly...

However, Snape may have been spying on suspected DE's during the "in between" times of Voldemort. Snape may also keep the potion on hand so he can be prepared at a moments notice. They did not know when Voldemort would return, so Snape would have to have been prepared.


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  #150  
Old June 29th, 2004, 12:32 am
hermionefan20  Female.gif hermionefan20 is offline
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I have no clue whether or not Voldemort knows... but if he did, I think he would find a way to use Snape to his advantage... maybe giving his false information or something.


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  #151  
Old June 29th, 2004, 8:04 am
azza  Undisclosed.gif azza is offline
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i think that Voldemort can't know as Lucious Malfoy would, and he is still good friends with snape, also Snape says in OoTP that he spies on the death eaters for the order. Either that or as other people have said, Voldemort may know but is giving him false information.



Last edited by azza; July 6th, 2004 at 1:48 am. Reason: changed my mind
  #152  
Old June 29th, 2004, 9:31 am
Mopsus  Male.gif Mopsus is offline
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But Snape was definitely not at Voldemort's side when the Deatheaters Apparated. It would have been highly suspicious if Snape had left the castle grounds during an event like the Triwizard Tournament (and especially it's grand finale). So that means he must have been one of the non-present Deatheaters:

- Bellatrix Lestrange (not Snape)
- Rudolphus Lestrange (not Snape)
- Three dead in Voldemort's service (not Snape)
- One too cowardly to return (Most likely Karkaroff)
- One who has left Voldemort forever (Snape!)
- One who remains my most faithful servant (Crouch)


  #153  
Old June 29th, 2004, 2:58 pm
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Everyone assumes that Snape is the one Voldy referred to as "one who has left me forever". They assume this because they know Snape is a spy, and because Karkaroff was afraid and therefore fits the definition of cowardly.

I think they are interchangable. Karkaroff betrayed the Death Eaters. He named names. Fortunately for the Death Eaters, most of the people he named were either dead or already captured, but he put Rookwood into Azkaban. There is absolutely no possible way that Karkaroff would have been welcomed back into the group after that. He was not loyal, he saved his own skin. Thus it could be interpreted that he left Voldemort's service forever.

The only evidence we have that Voldemort thinks he's left him forever is that we know Snape is a spy. There is no evidence to suggest that Voldemort knows. Now technically speaking, Voldemort should know that Snape is a professor under Dumbledore, and that would be highly suspicious. However, Lucius Malfoy is a friend of Snape's, and as Sirius put it, Snape was "Lucius' lap dog". Considering Lucius' standing with Voldemort, he would no doubt explain that Snape is no friend of Dumbledore's, and his allegiance remains to Voldemort as before. At the time of the cemetary, Voldemort could have interpreted Snape's absence as cowardice, both afraid to disapparate under Dumbledore's nose or to face Voldemort after becoming an employee of Dumbledore (meaning teaching not spying).

It would have been all too easy for Snape to cook up a lie to that as well. Since you cannot apparate or disapparate at Hogwarts, he clearly could not have joined them at the graveyard immediately. And he was under the eye of Dumbledore the whole time. When he left the hospital wing, it was no doubt to head immediately to Voldemort's side and explain as such.

But in that moment at the graveyard, it is every bit as likely that Voldemort was describing Snape as the cowardly one.


  #154  
Old June 29th, 2004, 3:45 pm
cajitasazules  Female.gif cajitasazules is offline
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Having Voldemort make such a direct reference Snape seems to easy. I think it is a red herring, forcing us to assume Snape because it is clearer from actions in the book who the coward/faithful servant represent.


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  #155  
Old June 30th, 2004, 7:42 am
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I don't think Snape can be "the one who has left me forever". If he were, he would be as good as dead, unless Voldemort has some evil plan to use him. Voldemort can't risk having somebody who has "left him forever", but still knows a lot about him and his Death Eaters, running around near Dumbledore. I believe that Voldemort doesn't know that Snape is a spy, and not a true Death Eater anymore. But this would mean that Snape would have had to be present in the graveyard, otherwise it would look suspicious. And I agree that this would mean cutting the time frame very fine.

But what do you think about Lucius Malfoy? He seems to be a spy for Voldemort against the ministry. Do you think he spies on others as well, like the Order? I've been wondering how it was possible for him to recognise Sirius in his dog guise on the platform - nobody, not even Dumbledore, knew he was a dog until book 3, and after that he's been in hiding. When has Lucius seen him before, as a dog, and known that it was him? Could he have been spying on Sirius too? Or does that maybe seem unlikely, since Lucius might rather have turned him in if he knew his whereabouts? (Uh, I have a feeling that I'm missing something here...)


  #156  
Old June 30th, 2004, 7:52 am
dancer4life728  Female.gif dancer4life728 is offline
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I'm pretty sure that Voldemort knows that Snape will no longer serve him as a death eater. He since in GoF something like one who I belive has left us forever, which I'm prety sure he is reffering to Snape meaning that SSnape will not come back to join them. I am pretty sure that Voldemort knowsthat Snape is a spy considering that that was all publically announced at the trails and there were plenty of DE who heard about it. However I think that Snape is finding out what the Voldemort is telling his Death Eaters through some other means that actutally overhearing the conversations. Perhaps he is reading the minds of some of the DE's or hes an animagus or a metamorphigi (sp??).


  #157  
Old June 30th, 2004, 3:08 pm
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I don't know if Voldemort knows Snape is a spy - but I think he is still doing some spying. At the end of GoF Dumbledore says, 'Severus . . . you know what I must ask you to do. If you are ready . . . if you are prepared' I interpret this as Snape going into service as a spy of some kind.

Also, when Voldemort mentioned the 'one who has left us forever' I think he is referring to Karkaroff, who takes off pretty quickly when he realizes Voldemort is gaining strength.


  #158  
Old June 30th, 2004, 3:13 pm
Vequihellin  Female.gif Vequihellin is offline
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I think that poor old Snape is living in a tangled web of deceit and double crossing.
I think that with his abilities, that Snape has gone to Dumbledore and made good, then, on Dumbledore's orders, gone back to Old Voldie and said "I have formed a connection with the resistance master, I will spy on them for you."
Then proceeded to feed Voldie just enough information to convince him that he is still on his side, but never anything really vital or dangerous on the orders of Dumbledore.
And I think that that is why he managed to get away with threatening Quirrall in PS - Because he was 'keeping up appearances My Lord' when in actual fact, he is REALLY and competely working for the 'Good' side.

Such complicated machinations. Poor Snape.

Veq.


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  #159  
Old June 30th, 2004, 3:15 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glugunkwen
I don't know if Voldemort knows Snape is a spy - but I think he is still doing some spying. At the end of GoF Dumbledore says, 'Severus . . . you know what I must ask you to do. If you are ready . . . if you are prepared' I interpret this as Snape going into service as a spy of some kind.
This is also backed up by his agreement in OotP to Harry's suggestion that finding out what the Death Eaters are doing is Snape's job.


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  #160  
Old June 30th, 2004, 7:31 pm
wavy  Undisclosed.gif wavy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fool
Everyone assumes that Snape is the one Voldy referred to as "one who has left me forever". They assume this because they know Snape is a spy, and because Karkaroff was afraid and therefore fits the definition of cowardly.

I think they are interchangable. Karkaroff betrayed the Death Eaters. He named names. Fortunately for the Death Eaters, most of the people he named were either dead or already captured, but he put Rookwood into Azkaban. There is absolutely no possible way that Karkaroff would have been welcomed back into the group after that. He was not loyal, he saved his own skin. Thus it could be interpreted that he left Voldemort's service forever.

The only evidence we have that Voldemort thinks he's left him forever is that we know Snape is a spy. There is no evidence to suggest that Voldemort knows. Now technically speaking, Voldemort should know that Snape is a professor under Dumbledore, and that would be highly suspicious. However, Lucius Malfoy is a friend of Snape's, and as Sirius put it, Snape was "Lucius' lap dog". Considering Lucius' standing with Voldemort, he would no doubt explain that Snape is no friend of Dumbledore's, and his allegiance remains to Voldemort as before. At the time of the cemetary, Voldemort could have interpreted Snape's absence as cowardice, both afraid to disapparate under Dumbledore's nose or to face Voldemort after becoming an employee of Dumbledore (meaning teaching not spying).

It would have been all too easy for Snape to cook up a lie to that as well. Since you cannot apparate or disapparate at Hogwarts, he clearly could not have joined them at the graveyard immediately. And he was under the eye of Dumbledore the whole time. When he left the hospital wing, it was no doubt to head immediately to Voldemort's side and explain as such.

But in that moment at the graveyard, it is every bit as likely that Voldemort was describing Snape as the cowardly one.
Fool - I couldn't agree more. I think it is very likely that Snape was considered the cowardly one, while Karkaroff was considered the one who left forever. Sirius also said at one point that many DEs were in Azkaban b/c of Karkaroff, so clearly, it was well-known within DE circles that he turned other DEs in (even though, I suspect Karkaroff got the blame for information Snape actually provided - in the pensieve at Karkaroff's trial, K can only name a couple the Ministry already knows about.)

BUT, I don't think its clear that Snape wasn't in the graveyard. He may not be able to apparate from Hogwarts, but he could have had a portkey ready for that purpose. I also suspect this is unlikely, since DD gives Snape a task after the graveyard scene and since Snape tells Karkaroff he is staying at Hogwarts before K flees. But it is another possibility.

I'm thinking K is going to be brought before V at some point, and he's going to give up Snape to save his own hide.


 
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