Ron is Dumbledore and Flamel--due to time travel...

[moon781]

Originally Posted by Da_Chinkster

DDs past self seemed to know that H and Hr had time travelled. He held up fudge and the executionist so that H and Hr could save Buckbeak. Do you think DD is able to know the future??

Good point, he did know. But how? He can't be a seer, he seems to look down on future telling so what is this all about?

[vmonte]

DD and time-travel again:

There has to be some reason why DD goes after Grindewald and then (happens to) immediately turn up at Hogwarts during Tom Riddle's time. Something has to connect these two events! I'm guessing that JKR hasn't mentioned Grindewald because knowing what he was about may give something else away.

JKR has mentioned (I think someone pointed this out previously) in one of her talks (Albert Hall?) that she wanted to show in the Potter series how difficult fighting evil was, because even when defeated someone is always ready to take over in it's place.

The theory that comes to mind is the one that explains that
Vapormort is now soulless because in the GH attack Voldemort's essence was ripped in half. It's "The Tom Riddle's soul is now living in Harry theory." This also seems to make sense as to why Harry remembers Tom Riddle as a childhood friend (they would be sharing brain space after all).

If we add my theory that Harry will go back in time, it may be because TR's soul must be removed from Harry--and perhaps only Lily's spell can rectify this. (I'm also reminded of the steam that comes out of Harry's head during the PoA movie. Is this metaphorical?)

Also many people believe that Grindewald represents a kind of Hitler figure since he was defeated in 1945. Hitler was pure evil, a murderer of countless non-magical folk/muggles. I don't know why I'm reminded of Arthur Weasley who adores muggles. Arthur has also brought up his children to be very respectful of non-magical folk.

If the children learn about Grindewald in history class next year and Ron makes a comment about what he'd have done to Grindewald if he was around during that time, then this could go along with my feeling that Ron=DD.

[vmonte]

I've also been thinking that Ron must have been affected by the brain at the MoM. How will it change Ron? Who's brain is it (a founder, one of Harry's parents, a time-traveler?) Will he now have new and pertinent memories? Will this mind-meld cause Ron to become a true-seer? Or, was this brain the mind of a time-traveler? -- Someone who was able to travel without need of a turner?

What if Ron has a dream about the Prophecy and wakes up back in time to witness Trelawny's prophecy (Ron is the 2nd witness in the bar). DD throws him out, but Ron retells the prophecy to someone outside -- the wrong person. (A traitor within the Order?) DD after listening to the rest of the prophecy, goes outside and transports Ron back to his room. It's Ron's fault that Harry's parents were targeted. If Ron=DD it could also be why DD is now tight-lipped about
giving information, and why he has made it his business to change the events of the past.

[true_gryffindor]

There is an indepth analysis of this here

I think that the strongest argument for Ron beeing DD is what DD sees in the mirror of Erised (he sees himself holding a pair of socks). Now we know that Ron would always get a pair of socks from his mom at chrystmas, yet he never really liked them. If Ron did indeed go back in time, it is easy to see why he would miss his family and thus desire to have their love back (which is what the socks represent).

If this theory happens to be true, I think it would be extremly sad for Ron. Just imagine what it would feel like having to go back to the past, and then watch all the people you love be arround you and yet, not beeing able to tell them who you are.

[vmonte]

I was just wondering what would happen if DD were killed and Harry confiscated the penseive (or better yet if Ron inherited the penseive filled with DD's memories). Harry has already seen this gadget in 2 books, I'm sure it's going to come back. If DD is grouping and sorting his memories to find links, one of the children might view older memories that will make them suspicious. What if the kids see
themselves in the past--running around like in PoA. They may need to go back just to complete their time-line role.

Ron has not been involved with time-travel. Do you think JKR has done this on purpose? If Ron=DD then she might not want to include him in anything that might give his future role away. I also find it curious that Ron (& Hermione for that matter) have not even met Voldemort like Harry and Ginny have.

I still think that time-travel will happen. And it maybe due to what the kids see in the penseive. I don't think however that James or Lily's history will change. The kid's time-travel may be what makes GH happen the way it did. Also, if it's not Harry's voice at GH (see 18-year-old Harry at GH thread) it may be some other time-traveler (Ron?).

I believe that James and Lily are both dead. They both came out ofVoldemort's wand. All I'm suggesting is that James was killed before Lily (could be hours, minutes, or days). Voldemort is responsible for both their deaths. Now, I cannot tell you exactly what happened because I'm not JKR. But James may have been out of the house when he
was killed. He could have been running after Lupin who was changing into a werewolf, he could have gone looking for Voldemort--anything!

And about 18-year-old Harry...

He could have survived the GH attack. As I mentioned before he may die, and then be revived by Snape, or someone else. Maybe Harry is taken to that "love room," or whatever that place is, and he is reborn--whatever.

Time-travel is possible, it has already happened. JKR likes to
introduce her ideas slowly into her books.

*** I hate time-travel stories believe it or not. ***

But I think I would be angrier if JKR had never mentioned time-travel in book 3, and then threw it at us in book 7.

And Time-travel can be done without the kids losing time in the present.

For example:
In the PoA book Harry and Hermione go back in time, do what they have to do, and then come back to the same moment in time from which they left. Harry may come back to the present to finish fighting present day Voldemort. If he doesn't, maybe the future Voldemort will follow
Harry back to GH. Maybe the series will end where it started--THE NIGHT AT GODRIC'S HOLLOW.

As I've mentioned before, one thing that I've noticed in all the books is that JKR likes to trick us into believing we are seeing one thing but then shows us how we've been fooled. Mistaken identity is throughout the books. There is Crouch as Moody, Ron and Harry as Crab and Goyle, PoA Harry who believes he is seeing James, etc. Harry has already assumed incorrectly that he was James, why not again. Again, what if the voice Harry assumes to be his father at GH is really Harry?

In the SS movie James was not in the flash back scene at GH (JKR told the writer to omit it from the script), and James voice was eliminated altogether from the PoA movie. Did someone not want us to recognize that voice?

JKR is also constantly reminding us how much Harry looks like James. In OOTP it is mentioned several times. (My personal favorite is when Molly tells Sirius that Harry is not James no matter how much he looks like him.) Why keep beating us over the head with this? No one is going to mistake Harry for James in the present since James has
been dead for many years.

But it could happen if Harry goes back in time. I also wonder if someone will realize who he is because he has his mother's eyes?

It's possible. Time-travel is already a reality in JKR's world

[vmonte]

I was just wondering what would happen if DD were killed and Harry confiscated the penseive (or better yet if Ron inherited the penseive filled with DD's memories). Harry has already seen this gadget in 2 books, I'm sure it's going to come back. If DD is grouping and sorting his memories to find links, one of the children might view older memories that will make them suspicious. What if the kids see
themselves in the past--running around like in PoA. They may need to go back just to complete their time-line role.

Ron has not been involved with time-travel. Do you think JKR has done this on purpose? If Ron=DD then she might not want to include him in anything that might give his future role away. I also find it curious that Ron (& Hermione for that matter) have not even met Voldemort like Harry and Ginny have.

I still think that time-travel will happen. And it maybe due to what the kids see in the penseive. I don't think however that James or Lily's history will change. The kid's time-travel may be what makes GH happen the way it did. Also, if it's not Harry's voice at GH (see 18-year-old Harry at GH thread) it may be some other time-traveler (Ron?).

I believe that James and Lily are both dead. They both came out ofVoldemort's wand. All I'm suggesting is that James was killed before Lily (could be hours, minutes, or days). Voldemort is responsible for both their deaths. Now, I cannot tell you exactly what happened because I'm not JKR. But James may have been out of the house when he
was killed. He could have been running after Lupin who was changing into a werewolf, he could have gone looking for Voldemort--anything!

And about 18-year-old Harry...

He could have survived the GH attack. As I mentioned before he may die, and then be revived by Snape, or someone else. Maybe Harry is taken to that "love room," or whatever that place is, and he is reborn--whatever.

Time-travel is possible, it has already happened. JKR likes to
introduce her ideas slowly into her books.

*** I hate time-travel stories believe it or not. ***
(Although, I think she handled it well in PoA.)

But I think I would be angrier if JKR had never mentioned time-travel in book 3, and then threw it at us in book 7.

And Time-travel can be done without the kids losing time in the present.

For example:
In the PoA book Harry and Hermione go back in time, do what they have to do, and then come back to the same moment in time from which they left. Harry may come back to the present to finish fighting present day Voldemort. If he doesn't, maybe the future Voldemort will follow
Harry back to GH. Maybe the series will end where it started--THE NIGHT AT GODRIC'S HOLLOW.

As I've mentioned before, one thing that I've noticed in all the books is that JKR likes to trick us into believing we are seeing one thing but then shows us how we've been fooled. Mistaken identity is throughout the books. There is Crouch as Moody, Ron and Harry as Crab and Goyle, PoA Harry who believes he is seeing James, etc. Harry has already assumed incorrectly that he was James, why not again. Again, what if the voice Harry assumes to be his father at GH is really Harry?

In the SS movie James was not in the flash back scene at GH (JKR told the writer to omit it from the script), and James voice was eliminated altogether from the PoA movie. Did someone not want us to recognize that voice?

JKR is also constantly reminding us how much Harry looks like James. In OOTP it is mentioned several times. (My personal favorite is when Molly tells Sirius that Harry is not James no matter how much he looks like him.) Why keep beating us over the head with this? No one is going to mistake Harry for James in the present since James has
been dead for many years.

But it could happen if Harry goes back in time. I also wonder if someone will realize who he is because he has his mother's eyes?

It's possible. Time-travel is already a reality in JKR's world.

[xX_Sturm_Xx]

http://www.knight2king.net/Knight2King/Personal56.html

I've looked threw the topic and I haven't found this link in it. Well, here it is, this is the full theory about Ron = Dumbledore.

[vmonte]

JK Rowling World Book Day Chat - 3/4/2004

Cookie246122: Why did you kill Sirius? It made me very sad
JK Rowling replies -> I'm really, really sorry. I didn't want to do it, but there was a reason. If you think you can forgive me, keep reading, you'll find out. [I feel really guilty now].


vmonte here:

JKR loves the character of Sirius. What would be the reason she needed to kill this character off? It seems to me that DD tried several times to save Sirius, by making Harry and Hermione time-travel, and by keeping Sirius at GP.
DD said he made a mistake with Sirius--he realizes that he should not have forced Sirius to stay at GP. If DD has time-traveled I think that he has changed some events.
He has changed some past events for the better and some for the worse. I don't think that time-travel is as rigid as
some fans believe.

What if DD has been changing history through time-travel but Sirius messed up his plans by changing himself from secret keeper.

And what if Harry time-travels back and young Sirius realizes that his actions are what caused Voldemort to find GH. If Sirius were to find out that in the future he was going to die no matter what DD or Harry did, he may change what he does in the past. I'm not saying that Lily and James survive, but maybe teenage Harry was also meant to die at GH. Sirius may sacrifice himself in the past to make sure that teenage Harry Potter lives. Sirius would then die in a nobler and more fitting way.

[Denyse]

Wow. This forum is working my brain overtime. Very interesting theory!

My thought is that if Dumbledore is anyone else, then he has to be either Harry or James. I believe James is dead so I'm not sure how that would work.

My reasoning is this: we've always known that DD cares deeply for Harry. At the end of OoTP, we see DD weep. He mentions something along the lines of just wanting Harry to have a somewhat normal childhood, with as little burden as possible. And that he didn't want to leave him with the Dursley's but it was the best option and if he could just get him to 11, and into Hogwarts safely, he could spend most of the year being "normal." (Sorry, I'd quote directly but my book is in the same room where my son is napping and I don't dare step a toe in that direction and risk waking him.)

Even reading SS, I remember having the thought that Harry's life is so burdened and how sad it is he can't just be a normal, carefree boy in a loving environment.

The emotions are just TOO deep for it to be Ron, Fred, George, etc. It seems as though DD is feeling intense pain for Harry. So he'd either have to be his father or be Harry or have experienced something very similar. I've often wondered if DD is not some distant grandfather or relative to Harry.

[Evil_Beckons]

how can Ron possibly be Dumbledore?? He is a weasley....how would he be able to pretend to be born into the Weasley Family....i dont know...this topic seems odd to me....can someone explain this theory that Ron is Dumbledore??

[xX_Sturm_Xx]

*Points a few posts up*


Click on my link and it will explain everything....

[Evil_Beckons]

i found it all amazing really...but what happens when dumbledore dies...? does our Ron have to go back to the future or does he survive and win the war? im going back to when it said ron was dragged off the board looking like he was knocked out....could this mean that Dumbledore (the first Ron if you will) dies and our Ron (the king) survives? leads them to victory? will hermione and ron still be an item...i sooo want them to be...this theory is believable but what will happen to Ron...will he die as well as dumbledore...'cos i think Dumbledore will die....
help...

[hollygo72]

Started my own post

[PitterPotter]

i found it all amazing really...but what happens when dumbledore dies...? does our Ron have to go back to the future or does he survive and win the war? im going back to when it said ron was dragged off the board looking like he was knocked out....could this mean that Dumbledore (the first Ron if you will) dies and our Ron (the king) survives? leads them to victory? will hermione and ron still be an item...i sooo want them to be...this theory is believable but what will happen to Ron...will he die as well as dumbledore...'cos i think Dumbledore will die....
help...

What I envision is Ron goes back into the past, makes a mistake by going back too far, then realizes when he goes to find 'past Dumbledore' that 'Albus' Dumbledore never existed. He remembers that Flamel has the sorcerers stone and finds him so that he can live a 'long life' as 'Albus Dumbledore' and just wait for that moment that will allow history to be changed. (perhaps to save Harry or Hermione's life). This happens and so instead of going back into the past 'present day Ron' just continues to grow up normally. 'Past Dumbledore (aka Ron)' elects to walk through the veil at the moment in time at which his 'other Ron self' would have gone into the past. Ergo, only one Ron continues on from that exact moment. It is confusing but I still do really like this theory of Ron=Dumbledore.

[vmonte]

Remember the howler that Petunia got? The howler that spoke in a scary eerie voice that Harry did not recognize as DD. Trelawny speaks in another voice when she is prophesizing, maybe this is DD's Seer voice?

I remember when DD told Harry that he had been thinking of removing divinity from the school altogether--until he met Trelawny. (Why remove the subject you say? Well, maybe because divinity is ambiguous, non-specific, often missinterpreted, and usually revealed after-the-fact.)

What if DD has a couple prophecy orbs himself? The same ambiguous, and non direct kind of prophecies like Trelawny.

There is one at the house of the child born in the seventh month who will...blah blah blah...develop magic late in life...this one will be protected by the child who can vanquish the dark lord...blah blah blah...on this non-specific ambiguous date and time...

This prophecy is the reason Petunia agreed to take in Harry, and DD's howler reminds Petunia of that prophecy.

Here is the thing, I think that Petunia has assumed that the prophecy is about Dudley, but it is really about herself. Petunia lived with a witch, her sister. She would know the early signs. She has been trying to keep Dudley from getting angry and upset his whole life in fear that he would reveal his magical side.

The problem is that the prophecy is really about her --- HAHA.

[GryffindorGr]

Originally Posted by true_gryffindor

There is an indepth analysis of this here

I think that the strongest argument for Ron beeing DD is what DD sees in the mirror of Erised (he sees himself holding a pair of socks). Now we know that Ron would always get a pair of socks from his mom at chrystmas, yet he never really liked them. If Ron did indeed go back in time, it is easy to see why he would miss his family and thus desire to have their love back (which is what the socks represent).

Interesting. Although I believe Harry would be more likely to be Dumbledore than Ron as Dumbledore.
As for socks, well, I think that's just in for fun. Because socks always go missing and they're considered to be somewhere in a time vortex or something.

[Zydeko]

nope...! I think it is wrong. Ron is Dumbledore, eh? what is next? Voldemort is James Potter in deed..?

[moon781]

Next thing you know there will be a theory about a conspiracy surrounding socks! haha

[knitnpurl]

The first time I read this thread I thought "somebody's been watching too many X-files episodes", but the more that I think about it, the more sense it makes. Maybe I'VE been watching too many X-files episodes (highly likely).

[vmonte]

In book 1 Ron is hurt during the chess game.
And his skill as a strategist is revealed (chess game).

In book 3 Ron is hurt when he is dragged into the Whomping Willow. He receives a scar because of this. Is it in the shape of the London Underground?

In book 5 Ron is hurt while fighting the DE's at the MoM.
He's attacked by a brain.

Will Ron get hurt in book 7?
Wil he have new memories in book 7 due to the brain attack?