Ron is Dumbledore and Flamel--due to time travel...

[RChou]

Whoa,

taking a page out of the Terminator. The Roninator.

[N Save Evans]

Originally Posted by IceKat55

Right, it didn't ever happen, but it was scheduled to happen, DD knew it was only a matter of time before the Minister & executioner came to perform the task.


Dumbledore DID know, at that point, that Buckbeak had been saved. Once he had gotten it all worked out in his own head (in the infirmary scene), then he knew that he needed to send them back in order to prevent the execution, and he also knew that they'd be successful at it because it had never happened. Had he not sent H/Hr back in time at that point, the execution would have happened, and Sirius would have been kissed by the dementors.

AHA! Light blinks on! By execution, you mean Sirius -- not Buckbeak!

But at the point that DD tells H/H to go back in time, Buckbeak has already been freed. So DD was somehow forced (by the rules of TT) to send them. He didn't have to know or figure out anything. Because if he hadn't sent them back, BB would have been executed, which is paradoxical, since DD saw with his own eyes that BB had disappeared. It's still a paradox!

[phoenix49]

He didn't have to know or figure out anything. Because if he hadn't sent them back, BB would have been executed, which is paradoxical, since DD saw with his own eyes that BB had disappeared. It's still a paradox!

Lol ! True! ahah *head explodes* too.

[N Save Evans]

Originally Posted by phoenix49

Lol ! True! ahah *head explodes* too.

If I go back and delete my previous post, can I prevent your head from exploding?

[phoenix49]

All in all, there is no way time travelling can be logical? Is this the conclusion ?

If I go back and delete my previous post, can I prevent your head from exploding?

Nope since it already explosed

[N Save Evans]

Originally Posted by phoenix49

All in all, there is no way time travelling can be logical? Is this the conclusion ?

Yup! My point exactly. So, we've already committed one "time-foul" -- why not more? Who says the Potterverse has to be logical anyway?

[HPGoddess101]

i think it is one of the most riddiculus things i have ever heard! It's impossible!

[IceKat55]

Originally Posted by N Save Evans

AHA! Light blinks on! By execution, you mean Sirius -- not Buckbeak!

No. I mean Buckbeak. Okay, stay with me on this one, I'm going to try & organize my thoughts...

The Minister & the executioner went down to Hagrid's cabin to execute Buckbeak. Present-time Ron, Hermione & Harry were on their way back to the castle and, unbeknownst to them, the future Harry/Hermione were hiding in the forest at the same time, waiting to steal Buckbeak. Present-time R/H/Hr heard the ax thud & Hagrid howl, and they presumed that Beaky had just lost his head. HOWEVER, we find out later (through future H/Hr's POV) that the executioner swung his ax into a stump in frustration (the thud) and Hagrid's howl was one of happiness (Beaky! Yeh clever boy!)

From that point onward, Dumbledore already knew that Buckbeak had been saved. He just didn't know how, but he very likely suspected the Time Turner and the trio's involvement.

So, fast-forward 3 hours. DD is in the infirmary with present-time Harry, broke-leg Ron, & Hermione. He knows that Beaky is alive, yes...and he also knows that Sirius is about a minute away from being kissed, but the key there is it hasn't happened yet. So DD sends present-time H/Hr back in time. When he tells them "more than one innocent life may be spared", he already knows that they go back & save Beaky ('cause DD was there, and he already knows Beaky "escaped") but Sirius is still in danger. By sending H/Hr back, he completes the circle for Beaky's storyline (of which he already knows the outcome - - they save him), and he's hoping for the best with Sirius. At that point, H/Hr have to figure out how to get Sirius out of the castle before the kiss, and since Beaky can fly, it's not that difficult for them to do the math. That's why Dumbledore told them which window Flitwick's office is. So they can fly Beaky up to it and free Sirius before he's kissed.

And with that...I'm going to sleep.

[phoenix49]

He knows that Beaky is alive, yes...and he also knows that Sirius is about a minute away from being kissed, but the key there is it hasn't happened yet

At this point, BB already escaped ! That's why it's not working ! If he decides to not send them, will it affect BB since he's already gone?

[N Save Evans]

Originally Posted by IceKat55

No. I mean Buckbeak.

Right! But Dumbledore didn't have to know or figure out anything. My point is that he *HAD* to send them back in time (regardless of Sirius impending execution), because Buckbeak had already been saved. There was no "figuring out" about it! To not send them back would create a paradox.

This goes back to the original comment that Ron=DD is impossible because if the war had somehow been changed for the better, then Ron wouldn't know he had to send himself back. The same situation applies above, yet JKR made it work. My point is that she can do the same with a Ron=DD plot, if she wants to!

[Shauna]

I will put my books through the food processor if Ron turns out to be either Dumbledore or Flamel.

Shauna

[GryffindorGr]

Originally Posted by IceKat55

The only problem I have with this theory is that, in PoA, Harry & Hermione didn't travel back in time to change anything...they went back to prevent.

If the war ends badly for the Order/good guys, then that's the way it ends and they'll have to deal. If Ron/DD (from a point in the future where Voldemort has won) were to travel back in time to change the outcome of the war so that the good guys win....then from that point, where the war ends well for the Order, he (young Ron) wouldn't know that he'd need to travel back to change anything. Does that make sense? The war would have ended well, so life would just go on, and he'd never know that he needed to travel back to "put things right". That creates a time paradox of some kind, I'm sure...

*am now very confused*

I love it, IceKat55, it's like "stopping" time, or rather like you said, a prevention from the obvious circumstances that are inevitable.
I think there was a thread around here about time travel specifically and not so much Ron is Dumbledore theory though time travel is a big part of this thought.
The chain of events would have happened anyway but I think, prevention was the key. It's rather like, stopping cancer. For example, the person who gets the disease cannot change the fact that they have recieved this horrible affliction due to the stresses in their lives or through genetic inheritance(?) but that the prevention is the one source that keeps it from happening. Maybe I'm getting more confused as well. But I always thought that stopping time to save the inevitable just a little makes a drastic difference.

[filius]

Originally Posted by vmonte

This is for all those fans that believe that time travel will happen again...

Dumbledore seems to know a lot of things he shouldn't know throughout the books. (I know that sometimes DD makes mistakes, and admits to those mistakes.) I don't think that he is a seer, but maybe he knows certain events because he already has lived through them.

Lets say that the events from book 6 and 7 have already happened. The war ends badly for the OOTP. There are many casualties on both sides. One of the survivors is a Weasley (Ron Weasley?). Ron has lost most of his family and perhaps Harry as well. Before Dumbledore dies he hands Ron the time travel hour glass and tells him to go way back in time to change certain events. (Dumbledore tells Ron a secret he has never told anyone.) Ron goes way back in time, goes to Hogwarts school as a student again, but his name is now Dumbledore (DD did have red hair once right?). He could even go farther back than that if he is also Nicolas Flamel since he could live for quite some time. (Flamel has a wife right? Could it be MaGonagall--aka Hermione?) It would be funny if MaGonagall gave Hermione the hour glass in the 3rd book to later prepare her for real time travel. (Rowling even turns Hermione into a cat in the series--a clue that she is MaGonagall!--this idea could only work if the kids learn how to become animagi in book 6 or 7 (just like James Potter's crew did). Ron grows up (and watches events unfold, trying all the while to alter certain events along the way. Since he is changing history certain events will unfold the way they originally did while other events will change the historical timeline. (I hate movies and books about time travel so I'm giving this idea my best shot.)

Many people believe that Dumbledore is playing puppet master with the kids--and he may be.

Luna is a true Seer and knows what Ron will become, hence: "Weasley is our King!"

Dumbledore believes that Snape is loyal--and maybe he really knows this. (But DD may have inadvertantly changed something in the timeline losing Snape's loyalty--DD may be surprised in the end by Snape.)

Ron also has a habit in the series to joke around and say things that actually happen later on. Could this be a clue from Rowling about Ron's identity?

It would be funny if the kids end up finding a portrait of a young Dumbledore or Nicolas flamel and it looks just like Ron.

Lastly, the general wizard public may think that Ron dies at the end of the war (book 7) but he actually disapears back in time.

I'm too tired to think anymore.

I think your theory is excellently well thought of! But I doubt if it will come true in the series. It will, however, make an excellent fanfic.

[IceKat55]

Originally Posted by phoenix49

At this point, BB already escaped ! That's why it's not working ! If he decides to not send them, will it affect BB since he's already gone?

Yes. H/Hr were Buckbeak's saviors all along. If DD had not figured out to send them back in time, then Buckbeak would have been executed as planned, and Sirius very likely would have been kissed by the dementors in Flitwick's office, because there would have been no way to rescue him.

[Zelkiiro]

My head hurts......I don't get Time Travel either...

[Danluver182]

wow...that's the most...interesting theory i've heard so far..

[N Save Evans]

Originally Posted by IceKat55

Yes. H/Hr were Buckbeak's saviors all along. If DD had not figured out to send them back in time, then Buckbeak would have been executed as planned, and Sirius very likely would have been kissed by the dementors in Flitwick's office, because there would have been no way to rescue him.

I disagree! Suppose DD didn't figure it out, and didn't send the kids back. How then could Buckbeak be executed when DD, standing in the infirmary, just saw him *NOT* executed minutes ago?

You see, DD has no choice! To not send the kids back at that point would create a paradox. So DD doesn't have to figure anything out! He just does it. (I sound like a Nike commercial.)

[IceKat55]

Originally Posted by N Save Evans

I disagree! Suppose DD didn't figure it out, and didn't send the kids back. How then could Buckbeak be executed when DD, standing in the infirmary, just saw him *NOT* executed minutes ago?

You see, DD has no choice! To not send the kids back at that point would create a paradox. So DD doesn't have to figure anything out! He just does it. (I sound like a Nike commercial.)

I'm not quite sure what you're disagreeing with me on, since your post is pretty much exactly what I said, just worded a little different.

Right...DD had to send them back in time in order to save Buckbeak, and while they were in the infirmary, he knew that.

[TylerDurden]

No way man this theroy doesnt work out.

[phoenix49]

Right...DD had to send them back in time in order to save Buckbeak, and while they were in the infirmary, he knew that.

So if DD does'nt send them back (hypothetical situation) in time that would means BB dies even though he just saw him escaped? DD is not forced to send them back in time, he knows he must but he is not forced.