Ron is Dumbledore and Flamel--due to time travel...

[whizbang121]

The best description of time that we can relate to is the mayan concept of a spiral. Because we move in time and space simultaneously, going back not only means turning back time, but moving backward in space as well. The whole universe has to unwind.
The first time Ron went back, there was no Dumbledore. That would have to be one of things that got changed. Back in time, Ron takes the name Albus Dumbledore and lives through time to the present. When Ron Weasley comes to Hogwarts, there's no danger of recognising his former self because they are so seperated by age. So, in this theory, Ron is right now experiencing two timelines as Hermione and Harry did at the end of PoA. Maybe that's why Ron couldn't go with them. He's already in two places, (and times) at once.

[Shrewd]

Originally Posted by whizbang121

Maybe that's why Ron couldn't go with them. He's already in two places, (and times) at once.

I thought it was because he'd just been bitten by a large black dog named Sirius that had given him a scar that was a map of the London underground.
We don't get any impression, though, that there are complications from being in 2 places at once - as long as you aren't seen. In some books there are repercussions - headaches, faintness, etc - but in the Potterverse it seems the only problem is that you'll see yourself...

[dcv]

The closest theory that I believe possible to what you're saying is the parallel universe one, where we started out with only one universe but every time someone makes a choice, they split so that a different universe exists for each choice that could have been made. What you would be saying then, I guess, is that the universe that we're reading about is one in which Ron has gone back in time 4 different times, and there still exists somewhere a universe where Albus Dumbledore doesn't exist because Ron never went back.

Yes, we are reading about the timeline when Ron/Dumbledore has gone back for the 4th time (and I also speculate it will be the successful time, or else why start with the 4th?) I guess what I don't know is whether the timelines can exist together like parallel universes, or if there is just one timeline and when it is changed all other possible timelines cease to exist. (And when you can only guess at what you don't know, then you're in real trouble.) I think if all the timelines are parallel and co-existing, then Ron/Dumbledore can continue to exist even if young Ron doesn't go back in time in our 4th timeline, because he did go back in time in the 3rd timeline, which then created the 4th timeline, which is where he went when he went back in time in the 3rd timeline. If a change to the timeline means that each other timeline ceases to exist, then young Ron not going back would mean that Dumbledore would have to cease to exist.

I think I've now moved beyond aspirin and need duct tape. Then, when my head actually explodes, all of the little pieces will still be taped together so the doctors can reassemble it more easily. (Credit to Glenn Beck for the duct tape idea, thank goodness, because I need it. )

[Shrewd]

Originally Posted by dcv

Yes, we are reading about the timeline when Ron/Dumbledore has gone back for the 4th time (and I also speculate it will be the successful time, or else why start with the 4th?) I guess what I don't know is whether the timelines can exist together like parallel universes, or if there is just one timeline and when it is changed all other possible timelines cease to exist. (And when you can only guess at what you don't know, then you're in real trouble.) I think if all the timelines are parallel and co-existing, then Ron/Dumbledore can continue to exist even if young Ron doesn't go back in time in our 4th timeline, because he did go back in time in the 3rd timeline, which then created the 4th timeline, which is where he went when he went back in time in the 3rd timeline. If a change to the timeline means that each other timeline ceases to exist, then young Ron not going back would mean that Dumbledore would have to cease to exist.

I think I've now moved beyond aspirin and need duct tape. Then, when my head actually explodes, all of the little pieces will still be taped together so the doctors can reassemble it more easily. (Credit to Glenn Beck for the duct tape idea, thank goodness, because I need it. )

I see what you mean. It's not really a theory that I believe in, persay, even the idea of parallel universes... it gets too complicated for me because I still feel like in this universe Ron will have already gone back, which means he'll have to do so again... tenses are so complicated when dealing with time travel!
I don't so much go for duct tape, because I find the look to be rather unattractive... unless you can find some of that really classy colored tape, and then you're in business. Instead, I coat my aspirin with glue, with the hopes that it'll somehow coat my brain and keep everything together.

...discussion of time travel turns me into a little kid. I had one of these conversations in 12th grade with a friend whose goal was to create a time machine to go back in time, to which I said that I would plant a disease in it that would wipe out all of humanity. Since we both believe in the linearity theory, that means that either his machine was a dud or my disease was. Chances being slightly higher that mine would work, I would effectively be ensuring that his wouldn't... I'm such a meanie, trampling on his dreams. Ah, the memories.

[dcv]

I don't so much go for duct tape, because I find the look to be rather unattractive... unless you can find some of that really classy colored tape, and then you're in business. Instead, I coat my aspirin with glue, with the hopes that it'll somehow coat my brain and keep everything together.

At my age, you pretty much quit worrying about whether your look is attractive, you just think about functional. I'll keep in mind the glue-covered aspirin though.

I still feel like in this universe Ron will have already gone back, which means he'll have to do so again... tenses are so complicated when dealing with time travel!

Believe it or not, I have a harder time with this concept, because to me it looks like an endless loop. I have a picture in my head of a "neverending Ron" forever doomed to be born, live to 18 or so, go back in time and live as Dumbledore, only to be born again and go back again, and again and again. Where does it stop? It's just too confusing. (Not that it makes it a bad theory or anything, it just spins round in my brain way to much.)

[SeekerLynch]

So this starts out with Ron being Dumbledore and a bunch of other characters, and now it's about parallel universes? What will they think of next?

[Shrewd]

Originally Posted by dcv

At my age, you pretty much quit worrying about whether your look is attractive, you just think about functional. I'll keep in mind the glue-covered aspirin though.

You're not really that much older than I am, you know. Besides, what I was really thinking is that walking around the office with duct tape around my head would either a) get me a warning, b) get me sent to the asylum, or c) get me fired...

Believe it or not, I have a harder time with this concept, because to me it looks like an endless loop. I have a picture in my head of a "neverending Ron" forever doomed to be born, live to 18 or so, go back in time and live as Dumbledore, only to be born again and go back again, and again and again. Where does it stop? It's just too confusing. (Not that it makes it a bad theory or anything, it just spins round in my brain way to much.)

Whirlywhirlywhirly...
What it would mean (as I see it) is that in this universe Ron is going to go back. There is a universe wherein he reaches 18 and doesn't go... but since we're in the one where Dumbledore exists, that universe is irrelevant. And since Ron is living his life in a linear fashion, he only experiences life one time - he is born in our time, lives to be 16-18, is sent back in time (probably being told by Dumbledore -his older self- that he is going to be Dumbledore [darn, this is confusing to write!] ) lives his life as Dumbledore, and dies at the age of 150-something.
Maybe time travel lengthens your life span. Could certainly beat anti-aging creams...

Originally Posted by SeekerLynch

So this starts out with Ron being Dumbledore and a bunch of other characters, and now it's about parallel universes? What will they think of next?

We're still talking in terms of the thread topic, so shush.

[fawkes phoenix]

isn't this more of what happens in some sci-fi film? Sorry-just doesn't sound very much like what would happen in a harry potter book. Although we keep finding out about new ways of travel aren't we-floo powder, i think, book 2 at the weasleys, port keys-when did they come in? we could be told about time travel in book 6/7.

[Shrewd]

Originally Posted by fawkes phoenix

isn't this more of what happens in some sci-fi film? Sorry-just doesn't sound very much like what would happen in a harry potter book. Although we keep finding out about new ways of travel aren't we-floo powder, i think, book 2 at the weasleys, port keys-when did they come in? we could be told about time travel in book 6/7.

We already learned about time travel in book 3 - the Time Turner. And while this does come across as very sci-fi, it's also just a really fun theory.

[BabyNorbert]

It sounds like you've thought a lot about this. Its a good theory, but I really don't think it will happen. JK has already used time-travel in the books, and I think it would be a bit too much if it happened again.

[atherella]

Originally Posted by BabyNorbert

It sounds like you've thought a lot about this. Its a good theory, but I really don't think it will happen. JK has already used time-travel in the books, and I think it would be a bit too much if it happened again.

I sure hope you're right and it won't be back. Unfortunately, Jo wasn't much of a help in putting our minds at ease though.

Will Harry time-travel again?

JKR - Not telling!

Ahhhhh!!!!

[whizbang121]

She never does anything just once. For example: the kids polyjuiced in CoS, and Crouch Jr. did it in GoF. The kids timetravelled in PoA.

[Shrewd]

Originally Posted by whizbang121

She never does anything just once. For example: the kids polyjuiced in CoS, and Crouch Jr. did it in GoF. The kids timetravelled in PoA.

Plus they had it on their OWLs...
You're right Whiz, she does like to us the same spells and potions multiple times. I think it very likely that she'll use time travel again...

I was thinking last night, as I was painting my room, about this thread. The thing that's always bugged me is a) how the OWL examiner said Dumbeldore had done things with a wand she'd never seen before (as in, how she's so old) and b) why, if Dumbledore is 150, he looked so young in the scene from the diary. Is it possible that Dumbledore, whether he's Ron or not, is actually the one doing the majority of the time travel? As in, perhaps he went back the first time and became Dumbledore, and took his NEWTs around 1920, meaning that he'd be about 40 in the diary scene. Then he went through the end of book 7 or whenever, and the war failed. So then he went back again, to some earlier time, and tapped himself on the shoulder and said "Excuse me, the war went badly your time, I need you to step aside and go take care of orphans in Africa or something while I take over" and because he'd know that he was time traveling he didn't kill the later him. Dumbledore then goes through the next some-odd years, and maybe he still fails. He repeats the cycle, going later and later, until eventually it works and the war is successful. It would mean that he was 'born' in either the first 10 years of 1900 or the 80s, whichever way you look at it, but yet he's experienced 150 years.

Just some ramblings. I don't completely believe in the theory of time that would allow this, but I may come up with a variant of it that fits to my theories.
Maybe Aberforth is the earlier Dumbledore from one of those jumps back in time that changed his name... and Dumbledore is having a bit of fun at his own expense. You never know... That could make Ron both Albus and Aberforth, not to mention many other tall, white-haired men...

[stormcat_5000]

this is a very odd theory and so many people have posted in it too!

But i dont believe in it it is too wierd to be true!

[Shrewd]

Some people are such spoilsports.

[Prof.Blink]

well, at the moment, i'm up for any explanations. Dumbledore isn't a seer but he certainly does know things. For example, straight after Cedric's death, DD decided that Harry wasn't to know anything. How did he know that Harry and Voldermort were connected via their minds BEFORE EITHER OF THEM knew about it?

Yes Dumbledore, is very intelligent, very wise and has great intuition; but extremely good timing as well, by the looks of things. This isn't the only occasion. I don't think he is a seer but I think time travel might have something to do with it. I'm not ruling this theory out just yet.

[Till]

Originally Posted by angel14

I don't like time travel.. there's just too much what if's, questions and other stuff. If they (all) can travel through time then there's no point writing Harry Potter any more... I mean if DD can came back and forth through time then might as well stopped Voldemort when he was a baby... I mean if he have that kind of power why would he (DD) let many people suffer and die... just to teach harry a lesson? just to make harry the one to kill Voldie??? I don't think so... no one is that brutal... no one sane will do that just for the sake of one life.

*sight* I would love to do an atempt at explaining this, but since I don't understand It comepletly myself, that's hard.
It is not posseble that DD would go back in time and stop Voldie when he was a baby. He could try it, but it wouldn't work. He would be stoped.
When you go back in time, it's not like you get a new try.
I remeber a good editorial about it, a really good one, a Notrh Tower I beleive, on the subject, but that seems to have magicaly vanished because I can't find that one anymore.

Originally Posted by Turambar

Well Ron did make that rather interesting comment about how Gryffindor had as much chance of winning the cup as Arthur had of becoming Minister of Magic.

Yeah he did, pitty JKR trashed it

[vmonte]

Originally Posted by Till

*sight* I would love to do an atempt at explaining this, but since I don't understand It comepletly myself, that's hard. It is not posseble that DD would go back in time and stop Voldie when he was a baby. He could try it, but it wouldn't work. He would be stoped. When you go back in time, it's not like you get a new try. I remeber a good editorial about it, a really good one, a Notrh Tower I beleive, on the subject, but that seems to have magicaly vanished because I can't find that one anymore.

Remember the DoM fight when the DE's head turns into a baby and Hermione yells out to Harry: "You can't hurt a baby!"

Well, his body may not have been a baby's, but at that moment in time his head/brain was a baby. Wouldn't Harry be just as bad as Voldemort if he injured what was technically a child? I mean Voldemort did go after baby Harry who was an innocent child.

I think that JKR was trying to make a point here. This scene reminds me of a conversation I had with my brother about time-travel. He thinks that if Dumbledore was really using TT he would just go back in time and kill Tom Riddle as a child.

I don't think that it's that simple though. Could you (if you are not a maniac) kill a child that easily? Hermione often makes Harry think about his actions. And Harry often imagines what Hermione would think or do in certain situations.

I think we are being set-up for another situation like the one above. Whether through the dreaded TT, or another DoM scene. Harry will be put in a situation where he will remember what Hermione has said to him, and he will act in the proper way.

Has anyone come up with the theory that perhaps Voldemort will be vanquished but that somehow a new (baby) Tom Riddle will survive and be given a second chance at life?

[shadowwrath]

i think youve been playing timesplitters too much

[Furienna]

I also think that no one could kill Voldemort except Harry, not even back when Voldemort was a child and it was still décades before The One was to be born, not even someone as great as Dumbledore. It's just not supossed to happen that way. Fate wants Harry and no one else to kill Voldemort.