PoA Film Discussion v3

[CajunFry]

Originally Posted by rela00

Hate to say it but you’re the ones who changed it, not us!


Basically I watched the first two going NO NO that's not in the right place!! PoA "felt" right. Argue the point all you want but for me PoA got the forest, Hargrids hut and the Whomping Willow in the right places. I also felt that the castle felt like a character in it's own right rather than a flat, uninteresting 2D thing that was there because it had to be rather than as the heart of the story.
Besides what's all the arguing about? It's obvious that you have your opinion, are other's not allowed theirs? I just put my opinion down thinking it was a nice friendly chat about the film and then find that people are being attacked for it! Chill!

Exactly. Spot on.

Well, that's odd. I intended to only quote what you wrote about the SS, PS thing and yet a whole 'nother post comes up in my box with some interesting things. So, I shall reply to the entire post that doesn't appear in the main thread.

Yeah, I know we changed it. hehehe I was only saying PS just to be respectful of the Brits . Us arrogant Americans usually don't do that. We are too busy playing world police to show such decency these days. Only joking.......don't hurt me.

Who are you referring to when you make these claims of "attack" and "not allowing others opinions"? I hope it's not me, because I haven't attacked anyone in years.....muahaha I hope you're referring to those rude people who posted before me, and not me. I just want to know where I stand on this issue, then I can get along and be merry once again.

In addition, this thread kind of warrants arguments ( friendly though!!!! ) based on what it would like us to talk about.

Also, and I am sorry to disagree with you, but you said that the Forbidden Forest, Hagrid's Hut, and the Whomping Willow were all "in the right places." The FF is debatable, but not of any real concern to me. Hagrid's Hut is more unlike the books, but for the real scoop on that, please read my post above (the really really long one). As for the Whomping Willow, I have to say that you are incorrect when you literally said that it was in the right place. I made a VERY sound argument that pretty much negates any chance of the willow being in the place in which you condoned. Once again, please refer to my very long (and please read it, not skim) and very thorough look at these exact points. I can back up my arguments if need be, but could you please do the same when posting so people aren't "attacking" you for saying generalized opinions. They like to do such things because they can and because you probably meant to be more elaborate but weren't. I can't tell you how much it irks me that good folks like you get flamed for nothing. I hope I'm not being a jerk, I'm just trying to help, if anything. Thanks.

PS I'm SO chill right now......

[Magical_Me]

As for the Whomping Willow, I have to say that you are incorrect when you literally said that it was in the right place. I made a VERY sound argument that pretty much negates any chance of the willow being in the place in which you condoned.

I don't believe any solid evidence can point anyone in the "right" direction in terms of geography in Hogwarts. Everyone has a different vision of the castle, the grounds, the lake and the forest. Even if in the book something is explicitly stated in the east or something it's not going to change people's already existing visions. I know the WHomping Willow seemed much more in place for me in PoA; I didn't imagine it to be in the middle of flat ground just metres away from the Castle walls. I imagined bumpy terrain around the forest, something PoA much more accurately cpatured for me.

[rela00]

Originally Posted by Magical_Me

I don't believe any solid evidence can point anyone in the "right" direction in terms of geography in Hogwarts. Everyone has a different vision of the castle, the grounds, the lake and the forest. Even if in the book something is explicitly stated in the east or something it's not going to change people's already existing visions. I know the WHomping Willow seemed much more in place for me in PoA; I didn't imagine it to be in the middle of flat ground just metres away from the Castle walls. I imagined bumpy terrain around the forest, something PoA much more accurately cpatured for me.

Exactly. I may be wrong (and probably am) but PoA was more in line with my idea of what Hogwarts looked like. I'm not saying anyone else is wrong I'm just saying in my minds eye it was closer to my view of Hogwarts than the first two.
I don't think your ever going to make everyone happy because that is the wonder of books. You create your own view of what the world looks like. For example Platform 9 3/4 is not what I imagined it as but I'm not going to quibble over it because that's how the filmmakers saw it (and probably JK herself).
The books are always going to be better than the films because you can create your version of the world and not have that of the directors forced upon you. Having said that, PoA is almost exactly as I imagined the grounds to look (and I may be wrong but it's my imagination so lay off!!!). Anyway... Argue away. It's obvious that different people see the castle in different ways. Forcing your view (either way and no I wasn't aiming the first "attack" at you CajunFry) on other people is only going to wind them up more. Discuss... yes, argue... yes but tell people they are wrong because their view doesn't correspond to yours... No. That's just rude!

[SnowyOwl]

There were aspects of PoA that I liked very much. I fully appreciated many of the artistic additions. The problems I have stem from Kloves' interpretation of the books. Yes, I realize that JKR is satisfied with his work, and yes, I disagree with her.

The characters have been manipulated in a way that I think undermines a good bit of the story.
1) Snape. Though, IMO, Rickman looks and speaks the part, the movie character is nowhere near as nasty as the book character. This negates one of Harry's big problems.
2) Ron's character has also had a huge amount of damage done to it. He has lost nearly all dignity in the movies. I do not see this as an actor problem at all, as Rupert Grint could easily play the real Ron. I was highly disappointed in the Whomping Willow and Shrieking Shack scenes. The freezing charm I'm not even going to discuss other than to say it is absurd to have a basic spell render a tree (that is put on the grounds to protect a student body of 11-18 year old kids) useless. I do not like how Ron is simply dragged into the hole whining for Harry the whole way--the Ron I know fought hard without screaming for Harry. Kloves then turns Ron into a Gryffindor version of Draco as he exaggerates his injury (a bite?) to Hermione after they leave (Yes, I can appreciate the humor).
It seems that anytime Kloves wants to try for a bit of humor, or highlight Hermione's "fierce intellect" he sacrifices Ron's character.
PS: the whole troll scene. He changes the scene so that it is only through Hermione's coaching that Ron can save the day.
CoS: the whole Aragog scene--enough said.
PoA: Kloves changes the "Hermione vs. Ron pet problems" to Ron being careless about Scabbers when the exact opposite is the case in the book. Kloves ruins the dynamics of the trio as he has Hermione and Harry keep Ron out of the loop after the whole time turner scene.
3) I disliked a few of the minor character changes as well. Leaky Cauldron Tom as "Igor"? Rosmerta changed from the curvy barmaid appreciated by schoolboys and Ministers alike.

Whew! Sorry for the rant. The only other point I'd like to make is that it surprises me how little the idea of magic as a way of life is portrayed in the films. In JK's world, I can't imagine Harry hunkering protectively over Hermione's back with a werewolf threatening them. They'd be firing as many spells as they could at the threat while getting out of there. Really, where is the practical application?

[CajunFry]

Originally Posted by Magical_Me

I don't believe any solid evidence can point anyone in the "right" direction in terms of geography in Hogwarts.

For starters, it pointed Chris Columbus in the "right" direction because his so-called "vision" of the Whomping Willow was so exact to the books that anything else was just plain wrong. I'm sorry but (as I stated in my first post, I hope you actually read it) there has to be a certain degree of consistency between these films. I don't care if the director makes changes that are minor or if he has things appear a little different because that is to be expected, but you DO NOT make such extreme changes from something that has already been established. Yes, I know I know, it's a new director and he's going to do things differently. FINE!!! I'm all for that. Just leave certain key points where they were. Chris Columbus got it right the first time. I'm sorry that a lot you didn't care much for his work, but if Hogwarts had at least stayed the same (in terms of where things were, and not how they looked) then the movie would have made much more sense and the events that unfolded in POA would have been much more logical. Go back and read POA and keep this "new" POA Hogwarts layout in mind when reading. You tell me whether or not the events that happenen in the book could have possibly worked with this configuration. Again, I will repeat myself by saying that I didn't have a problem with a new director making changes to the overall atmosphere and the look in general. I thought were fabulous when applied to the story and worked out perfectly to give us the needed feel and essence of the film. But by changing things to such a large degree it just didn't make any logical sense. As some have stated earlier, I'm not looking for carbon copies of the book as a film. Stay true to the original source material. Moving the willow is not staying true to source material and in my opinion, is kind of an insult to Chris Columbus. If the willow had remained where it was from the COS, then everything that happened in POA would have worked out wonderfully. That's a whole separate debate, so I'll stop here.

Originally Posted by Magical_Me

Everyone has a different vision of the castle, the grounds, the lake and the forest.

So you are saying that even JK Rowling herself has a different vision of the castle grounds, the lake and the forest other than what she has already written in the books? How do you figure that? Yeah, I had a different vision of everything before I read the books and then saw the movies and went on to compare them and see what worked and what didn't. Columbus' take wasn't perfect either, just to get that straight. However, as much as people didn't care for the "Disney-ish" style of his films, his interpretation was right there with JKR's description as far as geography is concerned. Let's make sure that we are all talking about the same thing and not two closely related articles.

Originally Posted by Magical_Me

Even if in the book something is explicitly stated in the east or something it's not going to change people's already existing visions.

Well, guess what? It did. Up until POA, everyone had a vision of what things looked like from watching SS and COS. Love it or hate it, it was now the set standard for future films, books, etc. The vast majority of it (especially the willow, forest, Hagrid's Hut) was the new standard and everyone had those images in their minds when further reading the later books and, ultimately, upon entering the theater for POA. Lo and behold, POA once again changes most of those standards (correct as they originally were) and attempts to re-establish them elsewhere at the expense of the audience. So, the books said one thing (in detail), the first two movies applied that nicely, and people had up until POA that vision. POA comes out, their visions have changed AGAIN, and yet you say that this scenario was not possible. Please clarify this for me because I am responding to the logic of your statement, so I may not be in the same ballpark as you had originally intended.

Originally Posted by Magical_Me

I know the WHomping Willow seemed much more in place for me in PoA; I didn't imagine it to be in the middle of flat ground just metres away from the Castle walls. I imagined bumpy terrain around the forest, something PoA much more accurately cpatured for me.

WOW! How can you not imagine something that was SPECIFICALLY described as being just metres away from the Castle Doors (not walls) in the first place??? When was the last time you read POA? I mean, if you want proof, see my FIRST post above, the long one, with book quotes, and stuff.... Now the terrain I can agree with you there. SS and COS could have used a more earthy, Rohan look (Hey, it was a good example....don't hurt me), but it wasn't a big deal cuz you didn't see it for that much of an extended period, SS and COS I mean. I can't really say much more on this one. *sigh*

Originally Posted by rela00

The books are always going to be better than the films because you can create your version of the world and not have that of the directors forced upon you. Having said that, PoA is almost exactly as I imagined the grounds to look (and I may be wrong but it's my imagination so lay off!!!). Anyway... Argue away.

True, the books will always be better because everything is there and nothing is left out. I think we all agree on that aspect. Good point. Now, the whole "forced" part. I don't know if you really meant to use that term because that's a strong way of putting it. I never felt as if I was being force-fed anything. It was more of appreciating what they offered me or not. For the most part, I appreciate what Alfonso has done. He did a lot of amazing things that helped to keep me from really not liking the film (the Dementor scenes, for example). With that in mind, your imagination is yours alone and it is something that none of us (hopefully) will ever try and manipulate to our benefit. I do not try impose, just to see things how they were meant to be originally. Everyone goes home and conjures up their own visions of Hogwarts to some degree when they read the books again. That's the truth. It's the movies that we are talking about, not our imaginations. If that were so, this forum would be in complete, and total chaos. You'd have trolls running around throwing garden gnomes at you whenever you tried to speak up. That's just not very wizard-like.

Originally Posted by rela00

It's obvious that different people see the castle in different ways. Forcing your view (either way and no I wasn't aiming the first "attack" at you CajunFry) on other people is only going to wind them up more.

True, we all see things differently. I'm pretty sure that I'm not forcing anything upon anybody, if you were referring to me (I'm confused). These aren't really views I'm arguing but facts that everyone has read at least once.

Originally Posted by rela00

Discuss... yes, argue... yes but tell people they are wrong because their view doesn't correspond to yours... No. That's just rude!

Discuss? Yes we do! Argue? That we shall! But, telling people they are wrong because their views don't match, NOT MINE, but JK Rowling's? Are you serious?

A NOT SO SERIOUS EXAMPLE OF WHAT KEEPS GETTING REPEATED ON HERE:

A Fan's vision: The willow was right where I thought it should be.

JK's vision: The willow was where I said it was when I wrote about it and that obviously contradicts your vision of it.

Who is right in the end? JK Rowling, of course! It's her books with her vision in her own words and what place is it for any of us to say so otherwise. You don't like what she says, well then tough! She has the last say in anything, not us. I'm defending her vision, not mine, so please do not accuse me of imposing or "forcing" "my vision" upon anyone else. It's rather JKR that you are disagreeing with, not me. If you weren't accusing me of anything, then please disregard that former statement. *whew* Got a bit of drama there....Anyway, please follow-up. Thank you.

PS It seems that I'm quite alone on this subject in the forums. lol Seriously though, if anyone actually agrees with me, even in part, let me know. It helps to know that my time and words are at least appreciated.

[CajunFry]

Originally Posted by SnowyOwl

There were aspects of PoA that I liked very much. I fully appreciated many of the artistic additions. The problems I have stem from Kloves' interpretation of the books. Yes, I realize that JKR is satisfied with his work, and yes, I disagree with her.

You disagree? You mean I'm not the only one? That's pretty cool! hehe

Originally Posted by SnowyOwl

2) Ron's character has also had a huge amount of damage done to it. He has lost nearly all dignity in the movies. I do not see this as an actor problem at all, as Rupert Grint could easily play the real Ron. I was highly disappointed in the Whomping Willow and Shrieking Shack scenes. The freezing charm I'm not even going to discuss other than to say it is absurd to have a basic spell render a tree (that is put on the grounds to protect a student body of 11-18 year old kids) useless. I do not like how Ron is simply dragged into the hole whining for Harry the whole way--the Ron I know fought hard without screaming for Harry. Kloves then turns Ron into a Gryffindor version of Draco as he exaggerates his injury (a bite?) to Hermione after they leave (Yes, I can appreciate the humor).
It seems that anytime Kloves wants to try for a bit of humor, or highlight Hermione's "fierce intellect" he sacrifices Ron's character.
PS: the whole troll scene. He changes the scene so that it is only through Hermione's coaching that Ron can save the day.
CoS: the whole Aragog scene--enough said.
PoA: Kloves changes the "Hermione vs. Ron pet problems" to Ron being careless about Scabbers when the exact opposite is the case in the book. Kloves ruins the dynamics of the trio as he has Hermione and Harry keep Ron out of the loop after the whole time turner scene.

You pose some very interesting points concerning Ron SnowyOwl. I never really thought of those things. But, they all make pretty logical sense from the book Ron. Yeah, I'd have to say that I agree with you on all counts, though none of it really bothered me that much, now that I think about it. ;-)

[shraker]

Well this is quite a heated discussion!

I really enjoyed the film, the darker look gave it a more mature feel, and (I think) represented the atmosphere in the book.

The whomping willow was used cleverly, changing with the seasons it visually told you what time of year it was throughout the movie.
I'm not really bothered about the changes in positioning, i think you really need to class the movies and the books as two different things that can never entirely be the same otherwise you'll never entirely enjoy them.The changes will only bother you if you imagine the movies image when reading the books other than one which you created when you first read them.(just my opinion )

Didnt anyone think the werewolf was good? I thought the fact that it didnt look just like a wolf was refreshing ,the one in the movie actually looked half-man half-wolf which i felt made him more realistic and frightening.

like alot of people have said, this was the first film in the series that really kept my attention

[Crazy_For_Lupin]

Gettin' pretty intense in here...

But here's my 2 cents, for what it's worth.

PoA remains my favorite book of the series, and surprisingly to some, thus far it is my favorite movie.

Did I agree with all the changes Cuaron made? No. One specific thing that I know has been brought up here repeatedly was the students being in Muggle clothes almost constantly--I had grown attached to the robes. Were there things I would have left in? Yes, of course. Specifically Gryffindor winning the Quidditch Cup--mainly because I simply loved the scene.

However, I really liked the overall 'feel' of this movie--it was very well suited to the darker nature of the book. Yes, Sorcerer's Stone and Chamber of Secrets had elements of darkness to them, but PoA is where we really start seeing things going dark. Cuaron achieved that atmosphere.

I loved the Dementors. I was 20 years old surrounded by mostly kids and I was completely freaked out by them, and I knew exactly what was coming. I loved Oldman as Sirius, and Thewlis as Lupin (and as you can tell, I'm a major Lupin fan.) The dynamic between them was amazing to watch, particularly the scene in the Shrieking Shack that's been brought up repeatedly.

I know this post doesn't address a lot of the problems people had with the movie but for me, I like to focus on what I did like. Battle on, all!

[hawk1245]

[quote=shraker] Didnt anyone think the werewolf was good? QUOTE]

I did

[Crazy_For_Lupin]

[quote=hawk1245]

Originally Posted by shraker

Didnt anyone think the werewolf was good? QUOTE]

I did

Me too! You could see the humanity behind it. Made it even more chilling.

[rela00]

Originally Posted by CajunFry

Anyway, please follow-up. Thank you.

Really can't be bothered cos all your doing is twisting everything I say and not actually taking any notice. Getting quite bored now in fact. All I will leave you with is I liked the film... So sue me!

Originally Posted by shraker

I'm not really bothered about the changes in positioning, i think you really need to class the movies and the books as two different things that can never entirely be the same otherwise you'll never entirely enjoy them.The changes will only bother you if you imagine the movies image when reading the books other than one which you created when you first read them.(just my opinion )

Yep yep. I agree. The first two films didn't effect my view when re-reading them so...

[CajunFry]

Originally Posted by rela00

Really can't be bothered cos all your doing is twisting everything I say and not actually taking any notice. Getting quite bored now in fact. All I will leave you with is I liked the film... So sue me!

Oh my GOD. You actually think I'm twisting your words?? It seems that they only appear to get twisted because you only make generalized comments that lack substance or elaboration. It's not my fault if I take your words at face value and respond appropriately to them. In addition, by ending your post with "So sue me!" that shows that you are just giving up on the issue. Why? Come out and play! This is fun. Don't get upset over this, its only a forum!

Originally Posted by rela00

The first two films didn't effect my view when re-reading them so...

Originally Posted by Crazy_For_Lupin

Did I agree with all the changes Cuaron made? No. One specific thing that I know has been brought up here repeatedly was the students being in Muggle clothes almost constantly--I had grown attached to the robes. Were there things I would have left in? Yes, of course. Specifically Gryffindor winning the Quidditch Cup--mainly because I simply loved the scene.

Amen!

Originally Posted by Crazy_For_Lupin

However, I really liked the overall 'feel' of this movie--it was very well suited to the darker nature of the book. Yes, Sorcerer's Stone and Chamber of Secrets had elements of darkness to them, but PoA is where we really start seeing things going dark. Cuaron achieved that atmosphere.

Amen!

Originally Posted by Crazy_For_Lupin

I loved the Dementors. I was 20 years old surrounded by mostly kids and I was completely freaked out by them, and I knew exactly what was coming. I loved Oldman as Sirius, and Thewlis as Lupin (and as you can tell, I'm a major Lupin fan.) The dynamic between them was amazing to watch, particularly the scene in the Shrieking Shack that's been brought up repeatedly.

Praise Merlin! They gave me chills and I'm the same age as you!

Originally Posted by Crazy_For_Lupin

I know this post doesn't address a lot of the problems people had with the movie but for me, I like to focus on what I did like. Battle on, all!

We appreciate your comments Crazy. For the record, you can see the list of things that I loved about POA above. I may seem really negative, but that's only due to the fact that I'm responding to a post directly and not so much my own account of the films.

Originally Posted by Shraker

I'm not really bothered about the changes in positioning, i think you really need to class the movies and the books as two different things that can never entirely be the same otherwise you'll never entirely enjoy them.The changes will only bother you if you imagine the movies image when reading the books other than one which you created when you first read them.(just my opinion )

I completely understand where you are coming from. You make a good point when one thinks about the movies and the books. However, your post wasn't accurate when discerning my recent posts and what you had in mind. I am basically classifying the movies amongst each other (again, consistency is key, see really long post for clarification). So, it's the transition from movie to movie that I am focusing on, while using the books as my source material to back up my arguments. I probably wasn't quite clear on that and I apologize. Therefore, while you are very right in saying what you did, it wasn't really pertaining to my original intentions. Thanks.

Originally Posted by Shraker

Didnt anyone think the werewolf was good? I thought the fact that it didnt look just like a wolf was refreshing ,the one in the movie actually looked half-man half-wolf which i felt made him more realistic and frightening.

Ya know, I'm kind of ambiguous on the werewolf. I liked the animal part of him, that was done quite nicely, but it was the look that put me off a little. I mean, it seemed to me that I was looking at a mutated chihuahua with anorexia than an actual werewolf (as opposed to say a Van Helsing werewolf or Underworld). Don't get me wrong, once I got over the initial shock value he was kinda cool. Freaky once he started running around snarling at the kids.

[Magical_Me]

Originally Posted by CajunFry

For starters, it pointed Chris Columbus in the "right" direction because his so-called "vision" of the Whomping Willow was so exact to the books that anything else was just plain wrong.

I couldn't care less if that is what JK Rowling imagined when she wrote the books. I think she knows that the beauty in books is that everyone has a different interpretation, so it would seem pointless to try and make everything described in great detail. It would bore people and render them unable to form their own imagination.

Originally Posted by CajunFry

I'm sorry but (as I stated in my first post, I hope you actually read it) there has to be a certain degree of consistency between these films.

I can see your point, and it is valid, but I disagree. I think Cuaron should be able to make the world his own vision. He wouldn't have touched the project if he was constricted to keeping everything canon to previous films. I would imagine not many directors would.

Originally Posted by CajunFry

Chris Columbus got it right the first time.

In your opinion. For me, Cuaron got it right, and I'm glad he did what he did. Third time's a charm.

Originally Posted by CajunFry

I'm sorry that a lot you didn't care much for his work, but if Hogwarts had at least stayed the same (in terms of where things were, and not how they looked) then the movie would have made much more sense and the events that unfolded in POA would have been much more logical.

Movies about wizards and magic don't need logic. They aren't deeply psychological and serious films, they are theere to be enjoyed. I'm sorry if you can't enjoy them on at least that level.

Originally Posted by CajunFry

Go back and read POA and keep this "new" POA Hogwarts layout in mind when reading. You tell me whether or not the events that happenen in the book could have possibly worked with this configuration.

Of course they could, but that's just it. Configuration is just someone else's view of it. It would clash with someone else's, guaranteed, and the whole vicious cycle would start again. It's impossible to make people agree on such things. Even if JK Rowling did every single thing in the movie it would still clash with other people's views. Just becasue it's what she saw doesn't make it right. As the author she sets the scene for us to play it out.

Originally Posted by CajunFry

Again, I will repeat myself by saying that I didn't have a problem with a new director making changes to the overall atmosphere and the look in general. I thought were fabulous when applied to the story and worked out perfectly to give us the needed feel and essence of the film. But by changing things to such a large degree it just didn't make any logical sense.

And again I will repeat myself by saying that movies aimed at children (and believe me, as much as anyone may argue, the potter movies are) don't need logic. They're visual and aural feasts. The books are when logic is important becasue they hold deeper meaning and symbol, when analysed in detail.

Originally Posted by CajunFry

As some have stated earlier, I'm not looking for carbon copies of the book as a film. Stay true to the original source material. Moving the willow is not staying true to source material and in my opinion, is kind of an insult to Chris Columbus. If the willow had remained where it was from the COS, then everything that happened in POA would have worked out wonderfully.

In that case, having the Willow where Columbus had it is an insult to me. The fact that the Willow's location isn't explicitly stated apart from a general direction is enough to discard the reliability of "source material".

Originally Posted by CajunFry

That's a whole separate debate, so I'll stop here.

As will I.

Originally Posted by CajunFry

So you are saying that even JK Rowling herself has a different vision of the castle grounds, the lake and the forest other than what she has already written in the books?

Of course not. What is written is not how everything is, what she sees in what is written is what everything is for her. If that makes sense... The reason she doesn't give specific detail such as "the lake is exactly fifty-eight paces from the back door of the castle which is at a right angle from Hagrid's Hut, etc..." is because the image is supposed to come from the reader.

Originally Posted by CajunFry

Yeah, I had a different vision of everything before I read the books and then saw the movies and went on to compare them and see what worked and what didn't. Columbus' take wasn't perfect either, just to get that straight. However, as much as people didn't care for the "Disney-ish" style of his films, his interpretation was right there with JKR's description as far as geography is concerned. Let's make sure that we are all talking about the same thing and not two closely related articles.

I hate the idea of someone else's interpretation being forced upon me. The movies, of course, don't do that as they are simply someone else's vision, but saying that Columbus had it right is a wrong statement in itself because nobody can have it right, becasue everyone is different. He may have stayed closer to the books geographically because he studied the text in detail, but a person reading the book for its original purpose doesn't take notice of such things. That's where they develop their own ideas. My imagination is ambiguous; whatever I'm reading takes form in my head and it may not agree with something in a previous scene in my head. My idea of Hogwarts isn't a solid, geographical plot. Anything can be anywhere, and I prefer it that way because then my imagination isn't constricted. Besides, who's going to remember every single location detail and have it 100% canon in every part of the book? Not many, I should think.

Originally Posted by CajunFry

Well, guess what? It did. Up until POA, everyone had a vision of what things looked like from watching SS and COS. Love it or hate it, it was now the set standard for future films, books, etc.

No they certainly did not. I would consider it an insult to have my imagination changed by someone else's intepretation. It may have happened with you, but please don't assume it did for everyone. None of the movies will ever changed my view of the books. Some aspects may be the same, but it wouldn't change anything. Sure, you can say that for people who saw the movies before reading the books, becasue it happens. It happened for me when I read Pride and Prejudice after the (brilliant) mini-series. But most of the time it's not going to happen with people who have read the books already.

Originally Posted by CajunFry

The vast majority of it (especially the willow, forest, Hagrid's Hut) was the new standard and everyone had those images in their minds when further reading the later books and, ultimately, upon entering the theater for POA.

In the context of the films that is true, but it certainly does not extend to the books.

Originally Posted by CajunFry

Lo and behold, POA once again changes most of those standards (correct as they originally were) and attempts to re-establish them elsewhere at the expense of the audience.

Who says they're correct? They may have been established, but they weren't correct for everyone. Cuaron had a vision closer to mine, but it wasn't correct. And I think it was at the expense of you. You agreed with Columbus' view and was unhappy with Cuaron's changes. I was very unhappy with Columbus and was relieved with Cuaron. The difference is that I wasn't expecting the same thing, and I won't expect the same thing for GoF. That is the beauty of different directors; you don't know what to expect. Seen one movie and don't like it, you may very well like the next one. It's hard to dismiss the whole series.

Originally Posted by CajunFry

So, the books said one thing (in detail), the first two movies applied that nicely, and people had up until POA that vision. POA comes out, their visions have changed AGAIN, and yet you say that this scenario was not possible.

I say that people's visions don't change from movie to movie if they've read the books. They have their own interpretations. That may be the case for people who haven't read the books, I don't know. I don't know anyone who has seen all the movies and haven't read the books, so I can't ask.

Originally Posted by CajunFry

Please clarify this for me because I am responding to the logic of your statement, so I may not be in the same ballpark as you had originally intended.

I hope I have, if not I guess you'll need to clarify what I have to clarify!

Originally Posted by CajunFry

WOW! How can you not imagine something that was SPECIFICALLY described as being just metres away from the Castle Doors (not walls) in the first place???

I don't recall that particular detail so obviously it didn't affect my vision of the grounds becasue I may have overlooked it. I don't read the books to analyse these things, I read them to have fun. It doesn't ruin anything for me, missing out on things like that. If anything, it's fun to notice new things on each reading.

Originally Posted by CajunFry

When was the last time you read POA?

I finished reading it the day I saw the movie, which was about a week after it opened in Australia (June 10).

Originally Posted by CajunFry

I mean, if you want proof, see my FIRST post above, the long one, with book quotes, and stuff....

I don't need or want proof. My vision is established, nothing can change that. Nothing except a dramtic and obvious physical change in the actual books; i.e. the castle is flattened by Voldemort. Obviously my new vision of Hogwarts is that it's simply not there. Besides, the lake was explicitly stated behind the castle, but it looks brilliant where it is in the movies, and I tip my hat at Columus for that particular detail. It still didn't change my view, though. And the books can't be used as proof as those sorts of things aren't taken as fact.

Originally Posted by CajunFry

Now the terrain I can agree with you there. SS and COS could have used a more earthy, Rohan look (Hey, it was a good example....don't hurt me)...

I agree, great example becasue it's what I had in mind.

Originally Posted by CajunFry

...but it wasn't a big deal cuz you didn't see it for that much of an extended period, SS and COS I mean. I can't really say much more on this one.

Either can I, simply because I can't think of a counter argument apart from the fact I disagree with continuity in the movies when it comes to that kind of thing between directors!

Originally Posted by CajunFry

JK's vision: The willow was where I said it was when I wrote about it and that obviously contradicts your vision of it.

Who is right in the end? JK Rowling, of course! It's her books with her vision in her own words and what place is it for any of us to say so otherwise.

I couldn't disagree more. Just becasue Rowling wrote it doesn't make it right, especially if other people think differently. Again, the beauty of books is in that everyone's interpretation is different. How boring it would be if everyone thought exactly the same as Rowling and she attempted to force her view upon us.

Originally Posted by CajunFry

You don't like what she says, well then tough!

She would never say someone's view is wrong, becasue it's their view. Of course, as long as it's rational; i.e. not if someone imagined Hogwarts to be in the Antarctic or on an active volcano.

Originally Posted by CajunFry

She has the last say in anything, not us. I'm defending her vision, not mine, so please do not accuse me of imposing or "forcing" "my vision" upon anyone else.

How do you know her vision? No-one does. No matter how much she describes it, it will be different for everyone. I'm not accusing you of forcing your opinions on others, but instead of assuming everyone should have the same vision and that only one is correct.

Originally Posted by CajunFry

It's rather JKR that you are disagreeing with, not me.

Not really as no-one knows what JK Rowling's interpretation is so nobody can attack it, therefore you can't defend it.

That's all for now!

[remusjlupin1980]

Thank you for making my work easier, Magical Me.

[rela00]

Magical Me I'm loving you right now! My point exactly but I "only make generalized comments that lack substance or elaboration" so therefore I didn't get my point across too well. Thanks for doing it for me.
Sorry if I don't express myself well but I don't have that long to do it in. I get short sharp breaks in which to write these so I don't have the time to gather my thought's and say everything I wish too. If it makes me sound stupid then so be it...

[MoodyHarry]

MagicalMe - couldn't have said it better myself.
With all due respect to CajunFry, of course.

I think that everyone will have a different vision of how the characters and the movie should be and what scenes it should contain. I would love to see all scenes, but that is not possible, so I just want to enjoy the movies at face worth.
However, Cuaron's vision was brilliant, IMO. I really enjoyed PoA. I enjoyed the previous two, but once I saw Cuaron's vision of PoA, it highlighted what was missing in the previous movies.

[Fury]

I loved the Dementors. I was 20 years old surrounded by mostly kids and I was completely freaked out by them, and I knew exactly what was coming. I loved Oldman as Sirius, and Thewlis as Lupin (and as you can tell, I'm a major Lupin fan.) The dynamic between them was amazing to watch, particularly the scene in the Shrieking Shack that's been brought up repeatedly.

I am 21 and that part freaked me out... I was like... AACK! Hurry Hurry! I knew what was coming too!

[MagalY BlacK]

POA is a great movie!!!! I had my doubts regarding to Cuarón, but he did an excelent job with this film. Is the best movie so far!! The work with the photography is awesome, all that darkness sets the right mood. The changes in the Castle are perfect, specially the tower with the giant clock. The score is so emotional... it's perfect! Now, more than ever, I am a BIG fan of Alfonso Cuarón

[Crazy_For_Lupin]

We appreciate your comments Crazy. For the record, you can see the list of things that I loved about POA above. I may seem really negative, but that's only due to the fact that I'm responding to a post directly and not so much my own account of the films.


Nope, no offense meant. Everyone's absolutely got the right to their opinion and I'm glad that there's a forum where everyone can express it.

And I'm also REALLY glad to hear that I wasn't the only 'adult' of sorts freaked out by those dementors!

[rela00]

Originally Posted by Fury

I am 21 and that part freaked me out... I was like... AACK! Hurry Hurry! I knew what was coming too!

21? 24 and a half (the half is very important apparently... Or so the kids at work tell me anyway! ) and I was still wetting myself! Very very scary. That hand at the beginning was terrifying even though we'd seen it a billion time's on the advert (or maybe it was just me who sat and watched it on a continual loop until the film was out... )