The New Gryffindor Quidditch Captain v2

[Potter80]

Some people tend to forget that it IS Harry's story.

[daz]

So very true. Thats why i thought id add its Harry Potter and. Not Ron Weasley and.

[spacecase]

This is Harry's story, but Ron is a big part of it. Ron and Hermione were made prefects when Harry wasn't (I know that Dumbledore had a good reason). I think that Harry actually doesn't have as good of a chance at becoming captain. About all he knows about quidditch is from personal experience, Quidditch Through the Ages, and the book about the Chudley Cannons, (I guess the world cup, too...). Other people have been playing most of their life. Ron played with his brothers back at the Burrow, and even Ginny snuck out and rode their brooms behind their backs. If Katie Bell is indeed a 7th year, she would be the natural choice for it. She also has probably seen a few captains and knows what style of leading works the best. She's had Angelina, Wood, and possibly someone before wood... Harry has only seen Wood, and a few matches with Angelina (that majority of the time, she was just upset at him for getting detention with Umbridge).
I don't think that Ron would be a good choice for the simple fact that he couldn't even play when people were watching him for a while. Everyone would have to watch him, and would be technically looking up to him if he were a captain. I don't think that he'd do so well under pressure. Ginny, on the other hand I think would make a great captain. (Maybe I'm biased because I like Ginny's character so much ) She has previously stated that she wants to be a chaser, but basically doesn't care as long as she can play Quidditch...which shows that she's flexible. She was also a great seeker despite the fact that her brothers never let her play. (I hope that they let her join in, now that she's actually had a spot on the team!)

[daz]

Nobody is more important than Harry. I see Harry being captain. 99% of fans would be over joyed after he missed out on being prefect.

[ikuko]

I am sorry, I can not see the logic of your reasoning.

Originally Posted by spacecase

About all he knows about quidditch is from personal experience, Quidditch Through the Ages, and the book about the Chudley Cannons, (I guess the world cup, too...).

Which is a lot of theoretical information, I doubt kids under 11 know more that that. And you admitted Harry's vast practical knowledge yourself.

Originally Posted by spacecase

Other people have been playing most of their life. Ron played with his brothers back at the Burrow, and even Ginny snuck out and rode their brooms behind their backs.

And yet Harry was better than any of them when he was first time on the broom. Does not look like a few childish attempts make up for the lack of rare natural talent. Mind, both Ginny and Ron are very good players, it's just Harry is a born seeker, by the admission of proffesional players (Bagman and Krum) he is word-class prodigy.

Originally Posted by spacecase

If Katie Bell is indeed a 7th year, she would be the natural choice for it. She also has probably seen a few captains and knows what style of leading works the best. She's had Angelina, Wood, and possibly someone before wood... Harry has only seen Wood, and a few matches with Angelina (that majority of the time, she was just upset at him for getting detention with Umbridge).

Now, this makes no sense at all. Harry spent exactly the same time wil all these people you named, even though he missed 2 games in the 5th year. Katie has not seen a single captain more than Harry, since they play for the same amount of time. The speculation about someone before Wood is absolutely false, if not deliberatly misleading.Katie has never beed a star of the team, never demonstrated any leadership abilities, she was just a reliable and decent player. That's good, but not enough.

As for Ron or Ginny, there is absolutely no chance for either of them to become a captain IF Harry is still playing. The only valid speculation against Harry's captaincy is that PERHAPS JKR will not let him play at all for some reason that we DO NOT YET KNOW. Because all reasons that we do know will not work.

[spacecase]

Originally Posted by ikuko

Katie has not seen a single captain more than Harry, since they play for the same amount of time. The speculation about someone before Wood is absolutely false, if not deliberatly misleading.Katie has never beed a star of the team, never demonstrated any leadership abilities, she was just a reliable and decent player. That's good, but not enough.

I guess I wasn't quite thinking right, I was going on the basis that Katie has been there for a year longer than Harry, thinking that she had played for a year longer as well. But first years almost never make the team, and I'm sure that if she had been an acception, we would have heard about it. It was my mistake.

But I don't think that someone needs to be a star player in order to be the captain. I don't recall that Angelina was every a star , yet she was the captain last year. She might be the captain just because she is the oldest player. I think her reliability actually would make her a great candidate. Harry was not really reliable. He missed half of the matches his fifth year (granted that wasn't entirely his fault). He also missed the tryouts at the beginning of the year. He also fell off of his broom once, and missed another match because he was saving the world (his first year?). I know these aren't his fault, but if an outsider had to evaluate Harry's quidditch career, these things look fishy.

also, ikuko , I'm probably not a very good debater, because I tend to try to explain myself so much that I end up contradicting myself

[Lawrence]

I don't think it'll be Harry. He's got enough going on without being a Captain. But If he is Captain, Malfoy will be Captain of Slytherin's team.

[ikuko]

that's fine. No, you do not have to be a star, if you are really a good leader and can unite the team. But in this case the star and leadership qualities just happened to belong to the same person. It is not that Katie is not a star, it is that she is no leader either, that makes her less eligible.
As to Angelina, I have a great respect for the girl. She has charizma. She was the one to tame one of the twins, and to try for the championate, and the way she bullied the team - you have to admire her. Katie has never shown so much individuality. Again, as I said in many posts, Katie MIGHT become a captain - if Harry is not playing. All the "failures" of Harry are given to us through his own eyes, and magnified because of that. No one blamed Lynch for falling off the broom during the Cup, and there was no dementors on the field. Missing games? True. But we only know when Harry misses. We have no idea when others miss a game for whatever reason. We were told that there is no substitute seeker (book 1), perhaps it implies that there are substitutes for other players. Oliver is a substitute now, isn't he?

[Potter80]

Harry's gonna be playing quidditch anyways. Why not be captain? Quiditch is like an outlet for him. It helps him deal with the stress.

[Parselpuff]

The correlation between "having fun" and being quidditch captain makes no sense. So far, we know that the duties of the quidditch captain are:

1. picking the players
2. managing/planning/arranging practice
3. and we assume that they manage/oversee the game

What is "fun" about any of these things?

Yes, Cedric and Charlie were seekers and captains of their teams, but that doesn't necessarily mean that is the usual case for all teams. We don't really know how Hufflepuff and Gryffindor teams were run during their tenures.

For example, if a quidditch team is one that is not a big scoring team, and basically relies on their seeker to catch the snitch before the other team can score a lot of points (see Bulgaria), then it would make great sense that the seeker is the captain. But for a team that is more about scoring a lot of points (see Ireland, Slytherin), then the seeker is probably not the best choice for the captainship. Gryffindor, during Harry's time has been a team that catches the snitch early, but also puts up a lot of points as well, making them an "all-around" team. If that's the case, then there is really no difference if Harry or Katie is the captain.

Also there is really no correlation between skill/talent and your ability to manage the 3 tasks mentioned above. Whether Katie is only a decent player or not really doesn't mean she can't be as good a captain as Harry. In fact, you find in many sports that the least talented people make the best coaches, and from what we understand about the role of a captain, they are much similar to coaches than "star players."

Also I think you are underestimating the importance of the 2 games that Harry missed in his 5th year. This is the quidditch team in HBP as we know it:

Chasers: Katie & Ginny
Seeker: Harry
Keeper: Ron
Beaters: Sloper & Kirke

Harry has only played with one of those individuals in a game. If Harry is captain, we must assume that he needs to choose the last chaser. WOuldn't Katie be in a better position to choose the chaser considering that there needs to be some cohesion at that position? Also if Sloper & Kirke are going to be replaced as beaters, wouldn't it be better that their replacements are chosen by someone who actually has a better grasp on their strengths & weaknesses?

And Katie has not be able to show leadership skills because Harry has not interacted with her much off the quidditch pitch. Like Harry is the leader of his Gryffindor year, for all we know Katie is the leader of her year. We really don't know because we get a strong Harry bias.

Bottom line is that there isn't a lot of evidence that says Harry or Katie would be much better than the other as the captain. But I think the factors that:

1. Katie is a year older (could we all agree that if all things were equal, the older player would get the nod?)
2. Katie has a firmer grasp on the strengths/weaknesses of the returning players

Means that she gets the slight edge over Harry in this.

[Potter80]

Harry has also shown that he is a great leader with the DA. He looked forward to the DA meetings. He enjoyed planning lessons and thinking about what he was gonna do. Why wouldn't he enjoy beong quidditch captain?

[conquest]

Parselpuff, you got tons of good points on why harry could be captain but DD might take the same direction he did with not making harry a prefect. Harry just might have to much on his plate to be captain of the team as he is going to save the wizarding world and get good grades at the same time. I think it would be to much of a burden on his shoulders on top of everything else

[Potter80]

I think it would be a real help to him. Harry enjoys Quidditch and he enjoys the strategy of quidditch. Like I said before I think it would be good for him. It will hep him take his mind off things.

[ikuko]

Originally Posted by Parselpuff

1. Katie is a year older (could we all agree that if all things were equal, the older player would get the nod?).

No, we could not. There is absolutely no reason to think so. Oliver was in his 5th year. So? he was a great captain. The whole "seniority" idea is rediculous. The team needs the best captain, not the one who was born a few months earlier. There is no seniority on the team, but even if there was, it should never be a deciding factor. What do you think it is, a line in the supermarket?

Originally Posted by Parselpuff

2. Katie has a firmer grasp on the strengths/weaknesses of the returning player

Absolutely not, you are twisting the facts. There is no canon proof and no indications of that. In fact, Harry knows at least 2 players better than Katie (Ginny and Ron), and others no worse than she does. And there could be no argument who is a better player or a better leader.

[ChiChi]

Is Katie in the seventh year or did she graduated?

[Denton56]

I'd say Harry. As for who the new beaters might be. No idea.

I'm gonna miss Fred and George.

[spacecase]

Originally Posted by Parselpuff

This is the quidditch team in HBP as we know it:

Chasers: Katie & Ginny
Seeker: Harry
Keeper: Ron
Beaters: Sloper & Kirke

Harry has only played with one of those individuals in a game.

Not true...Harry has played with Katie and Ron. And he does know Ginny personally. And perhaps another one of Harry's friends will become a chaser (or beater). If Neville, Dean, Seamus, or one of the Creeveys becomes a player, he'd know them better than Katie would.

Originally Posted by ikuko

Oliver was in his 5th year. So? he was a great captain. The whole "seniority" idea is rediculous. The team needs the best captain, not the one who was born a few months earlier. There is no seniority on the team, but even if there was, it should never be a deciding factor. What do you think it is, a line in the supermarket?

I always thought that a line in the supermarket is a great analogy for quidditch! Just kidding....

Anyway, Oliver was the oldest person on the team, wasn't he? He must have been since they didn't have to get any new players until he left (Not counting GoF, since there was no quidditch that year). For all we know, there may be some rule in place that basically says the person who's the oldest (or the highest year) gets priority for being captain.

[SnapeLova]

i dont think harry will become the captain because of all the work he will have to be doing with the order and the ministry(check my other threads) but it seems like ron is always getting a lucky break(prefect) so it could be him.


snapelova

[ikuko]

Originally Posted by SnapeLova

i dont think harry will become the captain because of all the work he will have to be doing with the order and the ministry(check my other threads) but it seems like ron is always getting a lucky break(prefect) so it could be him.snapelova

Check our other posts.

[Hysteria]

i think it would be cruel not to make harry captain. dumbledor already didnt make him a prefect (because of emotional stuff) but still harry has shown he is (pretty much) a mature person who can handle almost anything. being captain of a quidditch team cant be any harder than wrestling trolls and stuff...