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7 tasks, 7 books - Clues in The Philosopher's Stone



 
 
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Old October 8th, 2004, 12:12 am
fea  Female.gif fea is offline
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7 tasks, 7 books - Clues in The Philosopher's Stone

We posted this theory for the first time in October 04, and of course, we developped it even more in the time that came after, though we didn't always post our conclusions here (because I'm lazy, and even more when it comes to write in English). I'm finally updating it in mugglenet... I just hope there isn't a limit of words per post! :S

On the other hand, we included in our theory some things that people from this site suggested, so, if I say 'someone' and you know that that particular 'someone' is you, send me an owl and I'll give you credit for it!

Now, on with the theory. It analizes the seven tasks from 'Through the Trapdoor' (PS/SS), comparing them to the seven books. If you don't question that JKR may have left such a massive clue, then, by all means, proceed to point number one! But if you want to know our reasons to think such a thing, keep reading...

First of all, we must go back intime and see what JKRowling was when she wrote The Philosopher's Stone. Imagine this woman that one day has an idea, not only brilliant, but also of a titanic size. And, must I remind yo what happend to the Titanic?

Seven books are a lot of books, and they need an incredible amount of time and effort to write (as anyone who has ever tried to write something will tell you).

It took Jo four years to write The Philosopher's Stone. Just make the multiplication: in that particular moment, she thought it would take her 24 years to write the whole saga!!! And then, she wonders: "Is it really worth it to dedicate all my life to Harry?". It's easy for us to say 'yes', but for her, from her point of view of someone who barely can pay the bills, who sleeps very little because her baby just won't let her, who's marriage just ended in a bad way, who's going through one of the worst moments in her life... I'm not so sure that 'self-security' and 'optimism' were part of her vocabulary.

Never, even in her wildest dreams, could she have imagined the success that would meet her books. Actually, she probably thought that The Philosopher's Stone had little to no chances to be published. Be realistic: out of Harry Potter and Lady Di's dog hairstilist's wife biography, who had more chances to be published? It pains me to say this, but unfortunately Mrs. Dog usually wins. And, if The Philosopher's Stone was not published, she would have prefered to write another thing instead of Chamber of Secrets, the sequel of an unpublished book.

As she neared the end of the writing process, she got more and more desperate. Another six books? Are you crazy?? You need a very strong will to write (and, honest, writting seven books about the same guy, that's more than will, it's stubborness), not only to get your ar** in front off the computer and type, but also to leave aside all the fresh, wonderful new ideas that keep coming to your mind and that you can't concentrate on because you're writting another thing. It has nothing to do with wether you like or not what you're writting: of course you do! Otherwise you wouldn't be waisting your time with it! It's more like watching the same movie 500 hundred times. A day comes that you don't want to see it anymore. *reminiscing the glorious day when my little sister decided she had seen Dumbo enough times*

*still reminiscing*

Yes... sorry about that. But I did feel relieved. That is, until she took a liking to Cindirella, of course.

Anyway: writing is not easy. JKR said "Sometimes I actually hated the book, even while I loved it". That's what I mean.

She knew it was a good story, of course, and she loved it, but that also the reason she knew Harry would be forever on her mind (I don't know if you say that in english... it's just a way we spanish non-fluffy people have to say 'in our heart'). In those, each day more frequent, moments of desperation, she 'knew' that the book would never be published and that she would never have the courage to bring Harry and herself through six more books.

And, if she was never to write them, she decide to leave a little 'epitaph', a tribute to each of the six books in the only one that she would finish, so that Harry wouldn't be lost. And, who knows? Maybe one day she would tell Harry's story to her daughter, and those little notes would help her to remind where it was all going...

It might be possible that this beautiful piece of writing you're reading now won't take us anywhere, but we consider that every theory needs a basis to lay on, on this case, the psychology of a debutant writer. The reason it's so long is that, when we've written it in other forums, there is always someone who tells us that JKR was the happiest person in the world because she was writting Harry Potter, and, as for us the theory doesn't work starting from the basis of a happy Rowling, we wanted all the reasons we think she would have been desperate to be clear from the begining. So, if you think this is overly dramatic, you know why... I swear, there's spanish forum where we spent more time discussing depressive Jo VS fluffy-bunny-land Jo than the actual theory! And now, of course, since this is the first time I write this part in English, I am feeling suppremely embarrassed, because... Jo, if you ever read this, sorry!!!

And, of course, there's also the fact that she did say the key of the story was written in Philosopher's Stone (or something like that, I don't have the quote).

Anyway, here are the clues we found and our interpretation:

1. FLUFFY - THE PHILOSOPHER'S STONE

The first thing we must mention is that Fluffy is a representation of Cerberus, the three-headed dog who guards the gates of Hell in greek mythology. Only two characters met him: Hercules (it was one of his twelve tasks) and Orpheus.

Orpheus was a greek bard who loved his wife so much, that when she died, he descended to Hell to rescue her. In the gates, he made Cerberus sleep singing (and that connects him to Harry, who plays the flute for Fluffy). Later on, he managed to convince Persephone to let him bring back to life his spouse, but she put a condition on it: he was not to look back at his wife on their way back. Of course, Orpheus, being the big greek tragic, looked, and she was taken forever by the shadows. We will come back to this second part of the myth later.

For us, the first task symbolizes the begining of the journey to Hades that Harry takes in The Philosopher's Stone and will take him through seven years to his final battle with Voldemort.

And here we find our first disagreement post-HBP:

In the original theory, we said:

"The three heads of the dog are a symbol of the three 'villains' of the book: Snape, Voldemort, and Quirrell. We know that Snape is not really a villain, but Harry doesn't until the very end of the book, and that's what matters"

I still think that way, but Ceci (the friend who elaborated this theory with me) says that it was a great big luminous warning signal that should have made us realise from the start where Snape's loyalties really laid on.

An alternative we were given on this forum was that the three heads might symbolize Harry, Ron and Hermione in the gates of Hell (since that's where they are in PS/SS). I personally don't agree with that, as I think that Harry will go on this journey alone, but, it never hurts to say someone else's opinion!

Finally, this is Hagrid's task, an iniciatic character if there ever has been one, since it's him who introduces Harry to the wizarding world, and as such, the perfect symbol for the book.

2. DEVIL'S SNARE - CHAMBER OF SECRETS

Let's go step by step. The tasks begins with them falling a long distance underground, like the Chamber, and when they reach floor, there's no exit, like it happens with the Chamber.

When Harry falls on the plant, he thinks it's lucky it was there, because otherwise, they would have suffered a more than premature death. He thinks the plant is there to help him. Which is also what he will think on CoS about Tom Riddle's Diary. Despite having been wrong about Hagrid beeing the one behind Myrtle's murder, he is just a very good and nice boy, who wants to help them put a stopper to the attacks. The truth is very different. The plant is trapping them without them noticing, the same way that the Diary traps Ginny and fools Harry.

Hermione realizes what kind of monster the plant is, she knows what must be done to defeat it, but she is to scared, petrified (figurate) to save them on her own (it's Harry who tells her what to do). It's basically what happens on the Chamber. Hermione knows that the monster is a basilisk, she gives the information to Harry and Ron, but she can't do anything by herself, since she is petrified, litterally this time.

The plant is the only living thing they will have to fight against Through the Trapdoor, and we asumed that the basilisk would be the only monster Harry would have to fight in the whole saga. Knowing that HBP didn't include a monster, and that the seventh book will end with Voldemort, we can say that we got this right.

What vanquishes the Devil's Snare is fire. Fawkes, a creature of fire, will destroy the most fatal weapon of the basilisk.

We can also say that there is a parallelism between the fact that they're fighting a plant and Harry and Ron's adventure in the Forbidden Forest.

I know there is a lot in those last paragraphs that was deduced by other people, but I can't remeber their names!

This is Sprout's task, and CoS is the book where she takes her more important role, as the petrified people are saved with her mandrakes.

And now, quoting the spanish version of the revised theory:

A last word about this task. As we all know, CoS was supposed to be called HBP in the earlier drafts of the story. JKR didn't make the decision of separating the plots until she was writting it, so, we must assume that a part of the clues to HBP will be in the Devil's Snare task. We didn't get to any conclusion about it, but we were told that the most repeated word of this sequence is 'lucky'. This could be in relation to 'Felix Felicis' ('fortunate'), whatever it is.

There is no doubt now that Felix Felicis played a major role in the final battle of HBP. We have five characters who survived it thanks to it. So: congratulations!

3. THE FLYING KEY - PRISONER OF AZKABAN

First of all, let's see the parallelism with quidditch. This task must be done in a broom, and PoA is the only book in which Harry will play the complete quidditch competition. Not only that, but it's the first time he wins the quidditch cup and gets the chance to hold it. And, of course, PoA is the book were he gets his precious Firebolt from Sirius.

In 'Through The Trapdoor' there are only three passageways. The first one leads from the Devil's Snare to the Flying Keys: from the Whomping Willow to the Shrieking Shack.

We think that Wormtail is the key. Wormtail was hidden for twelve years, pretending to be a rat like any other. The key is hidden among a lot of keys, and is not easy to find nor catch. We could even say that the key has the feathers crumpled on a side, as Wormtail is missing a finger and later on the whole hand. It's an old key, something from the past, as Peter is. And it's made of silver, like his new hand. But, the most important thing is that if you don't catch the key, you can spend all your life in that room, you will never move forward. That's exactly what happens with Peter. If Harry hadn't found him, he would have kept hidden forever, and Voldemort wouldn't have been reborn on GoF. Peter is the key for his return. And that's not me saying it: it's Trelawney.

Now, we know that there is so much detail in the Wormtail bit of the theory that it gets ridiculous. But, consider this: Peter is one of the characters that had a complete unvariable plot since the begining. He was a traitor, he was to be hidden, he was to have a missing finger, he was to get a silver hand, and he certainly was from the past.

And we know that if Jo was really making the 'epitaphs' and she had decided to put a flying key hidden among others to symbolize Wormtail, at the moment that Ron has to describe it, she would have given it the traitors characteristics.

This is Flitwicks task. Flitwick is a small, cheerful, inofensive man, a good person. As the 'evil guy' from this book ends up being from the good ones, I'd say it's an appropriate symbol. I hope I have explained myself better this time... I never meant that Sirius was a model of behaviour, I'm just refering to his innocence.

It may not be the best of the parallelisms, but JKR had to put Flitwick as the symbol of one of the books, so, I'd say yes, he's more fitting to PoA than to any other...

Oh, I just thought of a new one: Filius means 'son', and this is the book that turns completely around Harry's parents. Well, father.

4. THE GAME OF CHESS - GOBLET OF FIRE

It's a game, just like the Triwizard Tournament is, in which Harry doesn't have any control. In this task, Ron directs the game. In the book, it's the fake Moody who leads Harry through the three challenges.

There are three movements in this task: the first one, the 'first real shock' is the black knight, in this case Cedric Diggory's death, that was the first shock not only of this book, but of the complete saga.

In the second movement, Hermione catches a white bishop. Now, we purely speculate, here. This could be Mafalda, Ron's cousin who was taken out from the plot because her role was very similar to that of Rita Skeeter. As being a first year she couldn't possibly be an animagus, we thought that maybe Hermione was supposed to catch her during the Third Task, instead of in the Hospital Wing. But, of course, this is pure speculation.

The last movement is Ron's sacrifice. We think this is a symbol of 'Prior Incantatem' and all the victims that come out of Voldemort's wand. The last of them, Lily Potter, is the symbol of 'sacrifice' of the Potter books. It's thanks to them that Harry can checkmate Voldemort.

This is McGonagall's task. Minerva is tha godess of war, and the Second War begins at the end of GoF, with the return of Voldemort.

5. GIANT TROLL - ORDER OF THE PHOENIX

I was saying before that there are three passageways in Through the Trapdoor. Well, the second leads to this task, and symbolizes the corridor from the Department of Misteries.

Harry never gets to fight the troll, it's Quirrell who does it for him. He doesn't fight Voldemort either at the end of OotP, it's Dumbledore who does it for him.

This room has a disgusting smell, that doesn't let Harry breathe. I think it's a pretty good parallelism with OotP, though I'm affraid very few people agree with me ^^*. I think that one of the most important things of the book is the preasure that the Ministry, through the person of Lola Umbridge puts on Harry. He can't use Hedwig, talk to Sirius, play quidditch... he says that the woman has taken everything he enjoyed from him. He can't even read the newspaper, because it's full of lies about him! So, yes: I think that the 'I can't breathe' Harry says in this room refers to that presure. The fact that the smell is disgusting just reinforces it.

The troll has a lump on it's head. This represents the constant headaches Harry gets in OotP and, subsequently (if that word exists ^^*) of his connection with Voldemort.

This is Quirrell's task. Quirrell is the Death Eater in disguise from this book, and as such, the one who could better represent the Prophecy. The Prophecy is the final objective of the book that has been better hidden in the whole saga. In all the other books, we knew (and will know) exactly what Harry was looking for, and that's what we got: 'the philosopher's stone', 'the heir of Slytherin', 'the traitor who sold out my parents', 'the death eater who put my name in the goblet of fire', 'what the **** is Malfoy doing' and 'the horcruxes, including Voldemort'. We may have been surprised by the discoveries about those things in the other books, but OotP is the only one where the surprise was that it was completely another thing. I mean, we were expecting a weapon and we got Trelawney. Quirrell doesn't represent the Prophecy, but the nature of the quest to get it.

And, of course, as it always happens when I write down this theory, a new idea just came to me: Quirrell has Voldemort in his head. He symbolizes Harry and Voldemort's connection, and with it, the Prophecy. (why didn't I think of this before???)

6. THE POTIONS RIDDLE - THE HALF-BLOOD PRINCE

You might have noticed I'm inspired, today... Well, even if thay never say 'riddle' in this task (are 'riddle' and 'puzzle' synonims or did JKR deliberately use a not-so-fitting word?). Anyway: I suspect that she decided to make of this task a riddle about potions not only because of the Snape enigma, but because one of the biggest things of HBP is exactly that: Tom Riddle, in Potions, hearing for the first time about the horcruxes.

Anyway, I'm translating the theory as we wrote it in the Spanish forums before HBP, so you can see for yourselves... and have a few laughs ^^*

The first clue is that Harry is trapped in this task. Not only he can't go forward until he solves the riddle, but he can't go back either. With Fluffy, the Key and the troll, he could leave whenever he wanted. With the chess game, he had that option until he took the place of a piece. There are only two tasks where he doesn't get that option: the Devil's Snare and the Potions Riddle.

Ok, so, now we know: it's the Unbreakable Vow. From the moment Snape speaks those words, Dumbledore's fate is sealed. There is no possible escape.

The second clue is the color of the fires. We think that it means there will be a change of mentors in this book. Dumbledore, represented by purple (the color he's given in his first description in PS/SS) has lost a lot of influence over Harry at the end of OotP, and aknowledges that he hasn't been able to do allthat was expected from him. We think the black fire is not Voldemort (who's color is red) but Snape. We have been told that it could represent Bellatrix, but, honestly, I don't think she is important enough: not only she doesn't have anything in common with the other fire, but JKR would have put Voldemort before her. We think it is more possible that it means a change of mentor will be in order, and, as Dumbledore's mistake was to care too much about Harry and Lupin would do the same, we think that Snape will take that role.

Can you spell 'denial'??? We had it there! 'Albus will be left behind'! Gah!!! ... and well, if you can spell 'Snape's cheerleaders' too...

Anyway: Dumbledore is 'left behind' and Harry will go forward on Snape's pursuit. And the two concepts couldn't be more related.

Third clue. This is Snape's task, so I'll dare say that in HBP we'll finally know 'The Truth About Severus S.'. And, as it happens in the task, logic will have a most important part in this book. We know that we will get a lot of information on this book, from which the seventh book will be built. Well, it is hard to imagine Dumbledore explaining everything to Harry. It would need at least three chapters and would be sooooo boring. That, and the fact that Dumbledore has said countless times that Snape's story is Snape's and no one else's (akka: keep your nose in your own business) would make very weird if he decided to tell him now. So: Harry will have to discover it by himself (because Snape certainly won't tell him).

So... yes, we discovered some things about Severus. Through his book, through Sybill, through Hermione's search in the library, and even from himself and Dumbledore. How come the man is still an enigma???

And the bit about the three boring chapters... Now that I've read them, I do find them boring! :P

Deffinitly, Half-Blood Prince will be Snape's book

I find that sentence hilarious!!!! We were correct, of course... who would have known? XD

I'll save you the bit about Hermione not being instrumental in HBP as Ron wasn't in GoF...

And, well, there was a long part here about friendships here that we got mostly wrong, but, still: the basis was that Hermione got to the chessboard (GoF) with Ron. We thought that it meant that finally, after two books of discusions and jealousies with Ron, Hermione would reagroup the trio. Now, I think it meant that Hermione goes back to where Ron stayed in GoF:they are not cooperative with Harry! What would have happened if they had taken him seriously?

Finally, we said that the third passageway lead to this task, and that the final sequence would start with something like this. Well, now we know: it's the cave.

There are lot's of theories around here about what could the seven potions symbolize. Personally, I think it's the horcruxes, but I haven't bothered knowing which is which. I think there is too much information missing.

Anyway, here's the order of the potions, in case someone wants to develop it further:

P W P F P W B

or

P W F P P W B

7. THE MIRROR OF ERISED - HARRY POTTER AND...

So... on with our clues for book 7!

First of all, I know I said we thought the clues were in the Mirror task itself, not in the fight with Voldemort, because otherwise the seventh book would be a 'best of' of PS/SS... but I also said that three chapters of Dumbledore explaining things to Harry would be boring, so I don't know what to think anymore...

Well... Let's go back to Orpheus, shall we? If you remember, if our dear greek tragic wanted to save his wife, all he had to do was to not look back at her on the way. There is a paralelism here, that was already fitting in PS/SS: what Harry had to do to get the stone was to overcome the deepest desire of his heart (that happens to be looking to his family, in the past) and change it for something completely selfless: to get the stone before Voldemort, not to use it, but just to keep it away from him, for the good of humanity...

I don't know if you see were I'm getting there... Yep, I'm talkin about selflessness... And what is the most selfless thing Harry could do? Sacrifice, of course. So: bye bye, Harry, you're dead.

And... well... on with the analisis of 'The Man With Two Faces', just in case...

First, Harry enters the room, expecting to find Snape, to find someone else. Since HP7 will be the only book in which Harry will be as certain as he was in PS/SS that Snape is evil incarnate... It wouldn't surprise me if it ended in the same way: discovering all the things the man did for him through that book. Specially, the sentence "all the other teachers thought he was trying to stop Gryffindor winning, he did make himself unpopular..." gets a whole knew meaning to me.

Then, Quirrell snaps his fingers and Harry is tied with ropes. Don't ask me why, but it makes me think he'll get Hufflepuff's horcrux first. Maybe it's because most of the 'tying' I have writen are related to the Devil's Snare ^^* Anyway, the fact that the sequence starts with him tied could be relevant.

Harry walks to Quirrell (yes, in the book he just obeys to him). Mmm... Harry following a Death Eaters instruction? Maybe Malfoy will give him some clue...

Harry burns his ugly face. That's likely to happen. Voldemort's death, I mean, not the hands thing. Anyway... the hands and fire could mean something.

And, of course: this is Dumbledore's task. Dumbledore is the non-official leader of the wizarding world and the one who defeated Grindewald. So, everyone will be looking up at Harry and he will win Voldemort. But there's no big surprise, here...



Last edited by fea; March 22nd, 2006 at 4:21 am.
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  #2  
Old October 8th, 2004, 1:59 am
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Wow . . . that is a very interesting theory. JKR is known for leaving clues such as this throughout the series, and I do think this is plausable. So, what are your ideas on the last two books then. I do think that the Devil's Snare and the Flying Key sections need a bit more work, though.


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  #3  
Old October 8th, 2004, 2:36 am
Faeriefire  Female.gif Faeriefire is offline
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Hmmm....

The table of potions would then represent book six. Snape created this challenge, so perhaps he will play an integral part in HBP. Maybe we'll even find out what happened to make Dumbledore trust him so much (finally!).

The challenge itself was a logic puzzle. An interesting note about the bottles, there are 2 pottles of wine and 3 of poison. We also learn from the clues given that
Quote:
however slyly the poison tries to hide/You will always find some on nettle wine's left side
From the point of view of the bottles, ie looking at the readers towards the entrance of the room, that means that the poisons are 'at the right hand' of the wine, as it were. We already know that Pettigrew was a traitor to the Order, and spend many years 'at the right hand' of the Weasleys, as the pet Scabbers. Peter was a traitor to James. I wonder who the other two traitors are, and whom they are betraying?

An interesting theory, to be sure.


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Old October 8th, 2004, 2:45 am
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Quote:
however slyly the poison tries to hide/You will always find some on nettle wine's left side.
This leads to an interesting idea... If snape used to be Voldy's right-hand-man, then Voldy would have been on Snapes left side. that goes with what was in the clue for the potions protection of the PS.

I really think that this theory is a good one. If it's true, I think that what was mentioned in an above post is correct, that we will find out what's going on with Snape. Was there something protecting the PS after the potions riddle before the Mirror? If so, could someone post it?

If it was the Mirror that came after the potions, then it would indeed reflect (no pun intended) the final confrontation between Harry and Voldy. In PS, harry won because of the goodness and love in him. it could be very similar in the final book. Also, remember that Harry had to face Quirrel first, in PS. this would indicate that harry would have to face the Death eaters before he confronted Voldy at the end of the series. And in PS, Dumbledore had to come in and bring Harry back up to the hospital wing. perhaps Dumbledore is going to save Harry again.

Again, i think this is an excellent theory!


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Old October 8th, 2004, 3:08 am
The Saint  Undisclosed.gif The Saint is offline
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You still haven't explained what you think is going to happen in the 7th book. do you think that each one of the traitors will be revealed in each of the last books? or are the two traitors revealed in the 6th then the final battle between voldy and Harry in book 7? This battle symbolizing the fight between quierrly voldy and harry in ps. I have a lot of doubts about this theory but I want to hear more.


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Old October 8th, 2004, 3:35 am
Ravenclawgurl  Female.gif Ravenclawgurl is offline
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when you say 2 traitor, it doesnt have to be good going to bad.....what if one is snape going from evil to good????what about wormtail saving harry as the other traitor, from evil to good???just a thought

and listen to this:
"3 of us are killers, waiting hidden inline."
(Book:SS Chapter 16 Page:285)


Wormtail: hidden as a rat waiting to rejoin his master.(killed cedric 4th book)
Bellatrix:waiting in azkaban (Killed black )
?: Whos next??Whos the third??
any ideas??


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  #7  
Old October 8th, 2004, 3:37 am
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Quote:
Ron is sacrificed, Cedric is sacrificed...
Excellent theory But I have a question about Ron being sacrificed in Goblet of Fire. Can you explain a bit more about that because I don't remember that happening.


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Old October 8th, 2004, 3:40 am
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The sacrifice of Ron was reffering to the chess match in PS, I think. Great thread by the way


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Old October 8th, 2004, 3:45 am
marauderlupin  Undisclosed.gif marauderlupin is offline
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DUH! I need to get some sleep.


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Old October 8th, 2004, 3:46 am
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I think the sacrifice of Ron may have had something to do with the second task.


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Old October 8th, 2004, 3:59 am
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Its pretty good except for the flying keys and devils snare, they just don't click like th rest.


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Old October 8th, 2004, 4:00 am
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Hmm... this is an interesting idea. Following the same logic, the 6th task is solved by Hermione, but Harry proceeds alone from there. It's logical, not magical. And it's about poison in disguise. Yeah...I have no clue what it means. ^_^ Tell us your theory! Do you think that Hermione helping w/the 6th task means that Harry won't face the problem directly again?


  #13  
Old October 8th, 2004, 4:21 am
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7th challenge, 7th book...

I'm not going to get into the aspect of QuirrelMort right now because schoolwork is threatening, but regarding the Mirror of Erised:

As we know, the mirror shows nothing but the deepest, most desperate desire of our hearts (can't remember exact wording but you get the point).

Dumbledore tells Harry that using the Mirror of Erised was one of his better ideas. He's a complete genius, so that's got to mean something coming from his mouth. Now, I personally don't think that the mirror has the natural ability to conjure objects, judging from the fact that the mirror doesn't necessarily show reality, and that people have gone mad from looking into the mirror, not knowing if what they saw was true. So if the mirror doesn't usually have the capability to retrieve objects, then we can assume that Dumbledore did something to make the mirror work as the way to get the Stone.

By this, we see that Dumbledore is able to manipulate desire itself. If we take his word for it, all Dumbledore sees in the Mirror of Erised is getting some nice new woolen socks, further proving that he is either completely free of those heart-wrenching desires, or that he is at least able to manipulate his desires so that they do not get the better of him. From Hagrid's comment in Goblet of Fire that he'd never seen Dumbledore so worried, and from the tear Dumbledore sheds for Harry when he is telling him of the prophesy and his own guilt in Harry's disastrous trip to the MoM, I think it's safe to say that Dumbledore does have a very large desire for Harry to be able to defeat Voldemort and somehow be a happy and healthy individual afterwards. So, he manipulates his desires to work for his best interests and doesn't let his desires get the better of him.

I can see that the last part of that isn't completely valid, considering it was Dumbledore's supreme muck-up in desiring Harry to remain innocent of his fate that caused Sirius' death, but I'll leave that alone for now and just say that for the most part, Dumbledore has manipulated desire to work in his favor.

So if the nature of the challenges has any bearing on anything to come in book seven, I think desire, and maybe the very nature of desire itself, will come to the forefront. Harry will need to use it somehow, for sure. The great locked power in the Department of Mysteries certainly seems to be Love, and Desire is a manifestation of that. It's also a manifestation of Hate, and Dumbledore may be manipulating Voldemort through Snape (ok, ok, I know nobody but JKR knows who's side he's really on but let's say he's on Dumbledore's side for now) to make Voldemort further obsessed about his desire for immortality and domination in order to distract him from making any good plans.

~Faeriefire

p.s. Sorry about lack of proper quotes from canon, I was just going off the top of my head, but I think they're pretty close


  #14  
Old October 8th, 2004, 4:25 am
Ravenclawgurl  Female.gif Ravenclawgurl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beabria
Hmm... this is an interesting idea. Following the same logic, the 6th task is solved by Hermione, but Harry proceeds alone from there. It's logical, not magical. And it's about poison in disguise. Yeah...I have no clue what it means. ^_^ Tell us your theory! Do you think that Hermione helping w/the 6th task means that Harry won't face the problem directly again?
i think the poisin is a medifor for a person, for a person in disguis, like mabey...snape.
he's not what he seems to be(im going with hes on dumbledores side) he's a double agent, so to speak.


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  #15  
Old October 8th, 2004, 5:56 am
Beabria  Female.gif Beabria is offline
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Yes, I could definately see the poison representing a person. But what about the potions to go through the "forward fire" and to go back. Could represent that at the end of book 6, Harry will finally have to proceed on his own? I can't really see his friends or members of the Order abandoning him, but perhaps simply that he is more independent in his fighting.


  #16  
Old October 8th, 2004, 9:20 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beabria
Hmm... this is an interesting idea. Following the same logic, the 6th task is solved by Hermione, but Harry proceeds alone from there. It's logical, not magical. And it's about poison in disguise. Yeah...I have no clue what it means. ^_^ Tell us your theory! Do you think that Hermione helping w/the 6th task means that Harry won't face the problem directly again?
That poison in disguise could refer to Snape. If he was infiltrating the Death Eaters, he would have had to have been in disguise...

And a big
WELCOME!
to FaerieFire.


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Last edited by Tiberius; October 8th, 2004 at 9:22 am.
  #17  
Old October 8th, 2004, 10:51 am
Lady Aranel  Female.gif Lady Aranel is offline
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The idea of the potion to go foward or go back could represent the choice of doing what is right and what is easy (or something to that effect that DD says about Cedric's death at the end of GoF).


  #18  
Old October 8th, 2004, 11:03 am
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Before I actually get to the point I'd like to say "Dumbledore's a genius? That must make fea a Super Genius!"

Maybe at the end of book 6 beginning of 7 something happens to Harry or someone close to him that makes him think that Voldemort is his to kill, and the full impact of what he's got to do hits him.


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Old October 8th, 2004, 11:06 am
vanew_me  Female.gif vanew_me is offline
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Love your thinking, FaerieFire! And, yes, that whole potions riddle has a lot more meaning than just to get through the mirror.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenclawgurl
and listen to this:
"3 of us are killers, waiting hidden inline."
(Book:SS Chapter 16 Page:285)


Wormtail: hidden as a rat waiting to rejoin his master.(killed cedric 4th book)
Bellatrix:waiting in azkaban (Killed black )
?: Whos next??Whos the third??
any ideas??
I think the last killer is Voldemort. I mean, he has waited for a long time (15 years so far) to get rid of Harry, so he fits the description quite nicely, don't you think?


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  #20  
Old October 8th, 2004, 11:14 am
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Another who thinks Harry's going to die right? I think it's going to be Malfoy, because he hates all muggle borns and all, so maybe, (and I'm hoping he dosen't) he kills Hermione.


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