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Will Voldemort Invade Hogwarts?



 
 
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  #41  
Old October 18th, 2004, 10:54 am
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Quite possibly LV will get into Hogwarts, though whether as a full scale invasion, I'm not sure. He'd proably need the giants to help, or possibly get the goblins to tunnel into the dungeons??

Crucially, disapparation is not possible in Hogwarts, thus negating one of LV's advantages. If things are going badly, he can't vanish without a portkey.

Could make for an interesting final battle.


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  #42  
Old October 18th, 2004, 3:06 pm
hollygo72  Undisclosed.gif hollygo72 is offline
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The Weasley's are Harry's heart. Hogwart's is his home. But I very much agree with the people who said that Hogsmead would be attacked before Hogwarts.


  #43  
Old October 18th, 2004, 3:17 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hollygo72
The Weasley's are Harry's heart. Hogwart's is his home. But I very much agree with the people who said that Hogsmead would be attacked before Hogwarts.
I too believe Hogmsmeade will get attacked. Maybe that is where Madam Rosmerta dies. People have said she does have crucial parts in the upcoming books. Hogsmeade will get attacked before Hogwarts. But this would give Hogwarts warning. Voldemort is smarter then that... we know that. So, it is anyone's guess.


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  #44  
Old October 18th, 2004, 3:22 pm
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Here are a few other relevant threads. They'd make good reference threads, or possibly be merged, since at least one of them is the same premise.

Hogwarts under attack & its defence

Will Hogwarts operate normally during the last two books?

The starting of a new Hogwarts?

WARTIME HOGWARTS - What will it be like?

(Keyword search - Hogwarts in DS and HoM)


  #45  
Old October 18th, 2004, 3:48 pm
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i think he will. of course he'll invade hogwarts. the end of the book will end, i think,in one of two places: hogwarts or godric's hollow.


  #46  
Old October 18th, 2004, 3:51 pm
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Originally Posted by woop
i think he will. of course he'll invade hogwarts. the end of the book will end, i think,in one of two places: hogwarts or godric's hollow.
What about Grimmauld Place?

Dumbledore is the Secret-Keeper for it right? If something happens, it could be revealed and stuff could happen there.


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  #47  
Old October 18th, 2004, 6:17 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hollygo72
The Weasley's are Harry's heart. Hogwart's is his home. But I very much agree with the people who said that Hogsmead would be attacked before Hogwarts.
True you'll get probably the two most important Weasleys if you take Hogwarts... Hogsmeade would be a nice target for a book 6 surprise... but then again so would Diagon Alley... which is a possibility no one is considering...


  #48  
Old October 18th, 2004, 6:24 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giebfried
The problem is that the burrow is not the heart... Hogwarts is. Voldemort won't waste time and death eaters on a minor prize, he is weak enough as it is... He is down to 3 servicable death eaters (Bellatrix, Wormtail & Snape) and as we see he is currently too weak (even with the death eaters he lost in the DoM) to take on the order one on one attacking an Order stronghold would be foolhardy especially when all he would gain would be at best a valueable hostage or two... Voldemort is not stupid he won't waste his death eaters when there are so many safer and more valuable targets.
You idiot!!! Do you think I was on about the building?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!!?!

Attack HARRY's heart!!! He thinks the Weasley's are his family.... you attack the Weasley's.... Harry gets very annoyed..... Harry comes after you..... You kill Harry. Simple.


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  #49  
Old October 18th, 2004, 10:44 pm
Dark Emperor  Male.gif Dark Emperor is offline
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This is purely a strategic overlook of the Battle of Hogwarts. I am assuming that a great battle does take place, and that Voldemort has an extremely immense army, so I'm not going to dispute why/why not an attack will happen.

First off, the timing of the attack-

1. Voldemort attacks while students are enroute to or back from Hogsmeade, there by keeping them weak in both places and keeping them isolated in the path between.

2. Voldemort launches an attack on Hogsmeade while the students are there. As Hogsmeade will not be nearly as fortified as the castle, this will make it easier on the DE Army.

3. Voldemort storms the castle directly (with all the students there), with help from a mobilized Slytherin House, led by Draco, there by starting a two-pronged assult on the castle.

Second, the units used in the attack-

I believe Voldemort's Army will have to be organized like this-

Commanding Officers- DE members
Second-Tier Officers- Goblins, DE-House Elves
"enlisted" units- Trolls, Dementors, Dragons, other various creatures

The Hogwarts army (essentially a more powerful and expanded version of the original DA) I believe will be organized like this-

Commanding Officers- The school staff, Aurors
Second-Tier Officers- members of the original DA, the Trio
"enlisted" units- Ravenclaw Division, Hufflepuff Division, Gryfinndor Division, Slytherin Militia (for the few members who remain loyal to Hogwarts)

Thirdly, the type of attack (this relates heavily with the timing of the attack)-

1. Using Wormtails knowledge, Voldemort sends in "sleeper cells" (aided and abetted by Slytherin House) to back up what will eventually be a Slytherin uprising (and also to scout for traitors to help them in Hufflepuff and Ravenclaw and Gryfinndor) while DE's control an army of Trolls to keep the staff busy while he seizes key points inside the castle.

2. An attack while the students are enroute to or from Hogsmeade, Voldemort would use trolls and other creatures to attack on both sides of the path, keeping them occupied while dementors or goblins (im going by their intelligence: trolls are stupid, so they'll be used only for simple tasks, while goblins and dementors will be used for more advanced manuvers {like occupation}) to take Hogsmeade. After they have secured the town, they will order the Slytherins to attack the still-isolated students on the path.

3a. Voldemort leads a full-scale siege against Hogwarts while all students (including the Trio) are at Hogsmeade. Hogwarts would be grossley under-manned with only the staff (roughly two dozen teachers), untrained 1st years, and mediocre 2nd years. With the castle under his control, the seemingly-undefendable Hogsmeade would be massacre zone for siege attacks.

3b. Voldemort surrounds and secures the area around Hogsmeade while all the students are there and isolates them from any reinforcements (i.e. aurors or teachers). DE sleeper units travelling with Slytherin reveal themseleves and take the most important buildings (especially Honeyduke's).
House-to-House fighting ensues with Slytherin giving out positions and manuvers of the Hogwarts Army secretly while pretending to be apart of the effort.

Now for the defense strategy-

1. The Gryfinndors (Trio especially) will be very VERY suspicious of Slytherin and would be watching every move. Using some inside help (from a sympathetic Slytherin or the castle house elves) to keep tabs on them. Harry would have the tunnels watched by the DA/HA, while Ron (whom I believe to be a strategic genius, thereby being the DA/HA "Field Marshal") would secure the castle's key locations. Hermione would probably use her knowledge to find out spells that can detect dark forces or see through invisibility cloaks (like Moody's eye). With the Slytherins closely watched, they won't be able to do anything without Harry or Dumbledore's knowing. If they do manage to pull off the initial two-pronged attack, It will be a classroom-to-classroom warfare type of sitiuation, and the key objective would be to capture Slytherin dungeon and, possibly, the Chamber of Secrets. The outside attack would be very intense, and the castle defense would have to be used to its fullest, with emphasis on protecting the castle doors and secret passages.

2. Assuming that the Trio is among the students that would be caught during the attack between Hogwarts and Hogsmeade, Harry and Ron (along with any teachers who were with them) would immediately take command of the situation, having the students closest to either the castle or the town go back there and the students to far away from both to try to fight off the army and keep the route open for supplies and reinforcements. Hermione would be charged with trying to organize their forces (according to magical power) and command the logistics needed to fight. The original DA would be attempting to retake Hogsmeade along with the full-grown wizards there. Neville would be charged with rebuffing the Slytherin attacks along with Ginny and Luna.

3a. If Hogwarts was taken in absentia of the trio while they were at Hogsmeade, then first they would have to know about it. Dobby would be the reliable source to tell them. Once aware of whats happened, Ron would lead Hogsmeade's defense, while Harry would go for an attack on the occupied castle itself. Hermione, along with the original DA, would go through the secret entrance at Honeyduke's and either attempt to hit them from behind...or try and defend it from agents of the dark lord.

3b. If Hogsmeade itself was attacked while they were inside, Ron would lead the defense in what is essentially going to be house-to-house combat. Harry would do all he could to break the blockade surrounding the town, while Hermione would be trying to find and destroy DE sleeper units. The original DA would fight against the slytherins with Neville leading them (I believe Neville has about as much ability as Harry...just hasn't relized it fully yet)

There is more, but that is more detailed and what i just described was the broad strategy.

Toodles...

NOTE- I have obviously taken some liberties and made certain assumptions with this overlook. Most of what I have put is generally accepted, and note that the emphasis of this was purely on strategy...NOT who would lead what.


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Last edited by Dark Emperor; October 18th, 2004 at 10:50 pm.
  #50  
Old October 18th, 2004, 11:03 pm
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Hmm.....very interesting Dark Emperor. That seems to be very well thought out.


  #51  
Old October 19th, 2004, 2:28 am
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Allow me to add that ghosts would essentially be the messengers of the battlefield, while peeves would (until the DEs themselves eliminate him) be a constant nuisance to the trolls and whatnot.

Come on people! need more opinions!


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  #52  
Old October 19th, 2004, 3:26 am
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Since it appears this thread is going to remain in place, I'll throw in a thought.

There was some serious foreshadowing of an attack of Hogwarts back in book 1.

American Hardcover SS Page 55
Convo when Hagrid first finds Harry on that island.

Quote:
*snip* He was takin' over. 'Course, some stood up to him - an' he killed 'em. Horribly. One o' the only safe places left was Hogwarts. Reckon Dumbledore's the only one You-Know-Who was afraid of. Didn't dare try takin' the school, not jus' then anyway.
I bolded the important parts. If something were to happen to DD (which I think it will), then he will no longer be at Hogwarts and there would be nothing to stop LV from attacking the school. I think the mere fact that Hagrid used the words 'not jus' then anyway' speak volumes. LV never attacked the school as of yet, and that statement sure implies that the school will be attacked at another time.


  #53  
Old October 19th, 2004, 4:09 am
Dark Emperor  Male.gif Dark Emperor is offline
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I think by now it's a given that Dumbledore won't be present at the Battle of Hogwarts

hence why I have already formulated a possibile strategic plan....just look at the uber-post on this page.

Oh and i want to add on again....this who (in my opinion and in what most of us have deduced) will be leading in the battle.

--BAD GUYS--

Voldemort- Supreme Commander of the Death Eater Army...he'll mostly likely just be observing...allowing his minions to do his work for him. However, if worse comes to worse...he'll take command and probably personally storm Hogwarts

Lucius Malfoy- he will be the commander of the operation in this battle..judging what went on at the DOM...he seems to be the DE tactical commander.

Draco Malfoy- It is of most of the fandom's opinion that Malfoy has basically seized power (bribes, extortion..Anti-Potterist leader) in Slytherin House. He will orchestrate the inside job.

As for the other DEs...they'll probably be there, just which ones I dunno.

--GOOD GUYS--

Minerva McGonagal- Acting head of Hogwarts..Supreme Commander of the Hogwarts Castle area. Will defer actual command to the original DA...including the trio while she controls the adult forces.

Flitwick- I see him working very closely with Granger to find charms and counter charms for attack and defense. Will be officially incharge of Ravenclaw house forces

Snape- By now I'm sure he'll be found out for what he is...he will try to get those who aren't under Malfoy to fight for Hogwarts.

The rest of the staff will have there importance...I just dunno exactly what at this time.

Ernie Macmillian- Commander of the Hufflepuff Division

Luna Lovegood- Possible commander of the Ravenclaw Division...though for obvious reasons i have my doubts.....

Neville Longbottom- Commander of the Gryfinndor Divison. he will probably be the one assisting Harry in his offensives the most.

Hermione Granger- logistics officer for the Hogwarts Army...she will organize the entire student body into a fighting unit and dem who best can fight. She will be with Flitwick helping him with research AND she will help lead assults for Gryfinndor Division

Harry Potter- He will be in charge of the offensive line and will lead the original DA in assults. He will also most-likely to be the one to go after the enemy officers. Second in command of the Hogwarts Army. Handles the tactical details.

Ronald Weasley- "Field Marshal", essentially, of the Hogwarts Army. While Harry handles tactics, Ron will be in charge of the over all strategy.

Ginny Weasley- Leads the defensive line. Possible leader of the Hogwarts "air force" (aka the combined school teams of Quidditch.

Moody- Will probably lead (along with Kingsley and Tonks) the Auror cavalary...or the entire British Wizarding Army.

That's all for now...just look at this post and the other uber post and tell me what you think.


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  #54  
Old October 19th, 2004, 4:19 am
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I can't possibly see Hogwarts getting attacked in the capacity you are talking about.

I mean for one, they have the headmasters watching over the school, eventhough they are in the headmaster's office, the ghosts can still notify them. And if the headmasters are notified that the school is getting attacked, for one they have connections into the Ministry.

So, if the Ministry is alarmed and the word is spread, which it will be, there will be every man, woman, and child in the wizarding world fighting and defending at the Hogwarts' grounds. Come on, in all honesty, what parent who finds out that his child is getting attacked by LV at the school won't go to fight and defend for his child. You would literally have millions of wizards at Hogwarts'. It just seems too far fetched and a la Lord of the Rings.

I mean, maybe in lesser capacity, there could be a possibility that Hogwarts could be attacked. But overall, why rob a bank in the middle of the day in clear view when you can do it at night? You know what I mean.


  #55  
Old October 19th, 2004, 4:57 am
hollygo72  Undisclosed.gif hollygo72 is offline
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Someone's been playing a little too much STRATEGO.


  #56  
Old October 19th, 2004, 7:33 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hollygo72
Someone's been playing a little too much STRATEGO.
OR they learned Sun Tzu's Art of War off by heart.


  #57  
Old October 19th, 2004, 11:13 pm
Dark Emperor  Male.gif Dark Emperor is offline
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True, the magnatude may be a bit off, but really...with Dumbledore gone Voldemort in his arrogance WOULD rob the bank in the middle of the day. And the ministry, as has been shown, is waaay to bureaucratically unstable that there would be a state of confusion. Also, I am assuming that the ministry would be busy battling in London to protect Diagon Alley. In fact, i'm sure that some other major attack would be conducted ENTIRELY for the purpose of keeping them busy. Voldemort will be OBSESSED with killing off Harry enough to do this type of attack. And if you read the whole post...bear in mind that I HAVE put in the stealth attack in Offensive strategy 1.

And personally, the DA was a step in the right direction. It turned a previously sub-par wizard into a fighter as good as harry. It created a fraternity of fighters that will be, by implication, KEY to battling the dark forces.

Now i admit i might have gone overboard with the military language, with Divisions and Field marshals and the like...but really, it is the perfect description and like i said before...a purely strategic analysis of what a battle of magnatudes great to small would be like.

Also, when it comes to parents coming to there kids rescue, you have to first put into account that apparation is impossible, that they would most likely already have there hands full on another front...and that many of them might already be dead. I am not assuming the conditions of the atmosphere in the books....but during that of his first reign.

memorize Sun Tzu's Art of War? I'll take that as a complement

Anyway...thanks for the opinions, MORE!!!

EDIT-

Oh and a Lord of the rings-esque battle would be impossible anyway due to lack of manpower at hogwarts....only about 1000 students there according to JKR. My strategy calls for something smaller...roughly equal forces battling each other. Twin Towers this ain't.


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Last edited by Dark Emperor; October 19th, 2004 at 11:18 pm.
  #58  
Old October 21st, 2004, 5:00 pm
crumseekerlynch  Undisclosed.gif crumseekerlynch is offline
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I don't think he would with all of the teachers, Dumbledore, The on person who can kill him(Harry), and the Students who are old enough to fight there to help protect it. It would be like trying to attack a citadel where they are training a thousand troops.


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  #59  
Old October 22nd, 2004, 3:14 am
Dark Emperor  Male.gif Dark Emperor is offline
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You make a good point crumseekerlynch

My overview assumes that Dumbledore is not there (for whatever reason) and if the DE's were able to wreck as much havok as they did during the first reign...then obviously they are just as well trained and apt at magic as the teachers...and are probably more in number.

the students aren't as experianced as the DEs...and i doubt that they've taken on dememntors (who were as good as confirmed to have defected to Voldemort in OotP)

Speaking of the students..this is how I'd classify them in such a battle.

1st Years- Hardly know the basics...let alone enough to go against dark creatures.

2nd Years- Only marginally better than 1st years, they would only be good for giving cover to more advanced wizards/witches.

3rd years- They would be able to keep the 1st and second years in line and help them during duels...but they themselves wouldn't be able to go up a fully trained wizard...They'd be shifted to guard duty I'd think.

4th Years- they'd be able to hold off on their own for awhile aginst adults...but they would need back up eventually. They'd be key to giving support to higher-year students.

5th Years- they'd be able to take on about half a dozen per student if they're apt enough. They'd be the primary defense if the school were to be attacked. Using their prefect-status, those who have been made as such would be able to convey commands from the higher years to the lower years.

6th years- Primary attackers. They'd be the ones to counter against any wave the enemy might throw at them.

7th years- essentially as good as the adults..they'd be able to use there status to command the lower years and act as the "officers" or "generals" of the student army. the Head Boy and Girl would be leading...unless stated otherwise by the staff.


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  #60  
Old October 22nd, 2004, 4:46 am
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Actually I think that Voldemort had dementors with him last time. It said that he assembled an army filled some of the most feared creatures (that's what it said when talking about giants, and I think that we can safely say that dementors are feared creatures).

I also highly doubt it that Voldemort will invade Hogwarts, since he fears Dumbledore and Dumbledore would obviously be there to stop him if he tried to invade. Plus the school probably has some protective magic on it to protect it from being invaded, after all why else would you not be able to apperate in or out of the school?


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