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  #1201  
Old September 30th, 2007, 10:00 pm
unconvinced  Male.gif unconvinced is offline
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Re: Naruto

Hmm my wee brothers a big fan of Naruto, in fact I don't think he's done anything else this weekend...


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  #1202  
Old October 1st, 2007, 6:41 pm
darkchild  Female.gif darkchild is offline
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Re: Naruto

We all hate Karin, yay!

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And I agree with you very much that Nagato took over Yahiko's body (if I understood you correctly, that is), hence the eyes. I suspect it might be like the story with Team Yondaime gone awry. Yahiko (with his less than pleasant views regarding life....) probably died or something serious happened to him and the other two decided to continue living so they could fulfill HIS (Yahiko's) dreams. Like In Memoriam. Nagato took over his dead(or not really) body. Or Nagato just turned evil and defeated Yahiko (which I don't think was the case since Yahiko seemed much more unpleasant than Nagato, personality-wise......to me, of course). And Konan didn't show any back-bone. She was the gentle origami-type, after all .
You understood me perfectly and I agree with what you say about what probably happened. Konan did look a bit sad when Jiraiya asked about them; "the rumors that they're dead are all lies, aren't they". She then says they "act to make his plans reality", which makes one believe Yahiko died and now Nagato and Konan are carrying out his wish. But I guess the person Konan is referring to could just as well be Madara or even Orochimaru, if Yahiko turns out to have some relation Juugo.

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Juugo.....I have to check. Ah, here we are, Juugo of Tenpin. Tenpin? Whatever.
Tenpin? The bowling country?


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I think Pein's first shown Body was a part of Naruto's mother's clan, maybe a direct relative of naruto's, but I don't think that was Pein's original body. Pein's original body was that dark haired person right? Besides, age is a relative thing in an anime. Juugo always looked older than Sasuke and his generation, so I figure there's a good chance he's the one in Pein's group since they never officially revealed ages. After just checking pictures of Juugo vs the kid, I'm certain they're the same. Plus the writer can develop Juugo's character more through this.

If Nagato is Pein then yes.

I also thought Pein's first shown body, and he himself, was an Uzumaki, but now I doubt it since Yahiko (wich I believe is his first body), doesn't look anything like a young Naruto, but instead is a copy of Juugo.
But even if Yahiko turns out not to be Pein's first body, he can't be Juugo. Their personalities is way different, Juugo doesn't want to kill or even hurt people while Yahiko wants revenge on everything and everyone (well), and make them suffer just like he has, and we saw no signs of the cursed seal or that he suffered from anything like it. Juugo is also a freaking giant while Yahiko is only slightly taller than Nagato and Konan, and we may not know their exact age, but I doubt Juugo is older than 30, which Yahiko undoubtedly is. They are distant related if anything but I think it is just a coincidence.


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Hmm my wee brothers a big fan of Naruto, in fact I don't think he's done anything else this weekend...
Then your brother must have had a very fun weekend


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  #1203  
Old October 1st, 2007, 7:15 pm
soetkin  Undisclosed.gif soetkin is offline
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Re: Naruto

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You know....I'm comparing Yahiko(Pein?) to other villains from other series. Or just other villains from NARUTO. Maybe I'm overlooking some obvious story ATM, but I really can't remember ANY villain having goals like those of Yahiko's.
It's always about taking over the world, becoming the best in some way (most powerful or something to that effect), achieving immortality, learning some superior knowledge. It's very rare that the goals themselves are bad. For instance, nothing from what I just mentioned above is really malevolent or not noble. It's usually that the villains choose really nasty methods to achieve what they seek. The means are what're supposed to make us scorn at them.

The case with Yahiko, however, is diametrically different...his goal is NOT about himself in any way, at all. It's about others. He seems not to care whatsoever about himself in that he has never said he wants anything. Or would like to gain something for himself. No, he just wants OTHERS to feel the same pain he once had to. Everyone must feel the pain, because, according to him, they couldn't understand him otherwise, right?
That's scary, I've got to admit. Moreso than the standard card-board "evil" folks in other stories.


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Just imagine, you can start things over every time you don't get your way. You can exclude anyone who thinks outside the box and soon no one will think outside of it, or those who do won't admit it. At which point, the individuality of the human race will be forfeit. But it is so much easier than having a cordial discussion. ~ clkginny
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  #1204  
Old October 2nd, 2007, 5:33 pm
darkchild  Female.gif darkchild is offline
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Re: Naruto

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Right now I can't think any villains besides dr Doom, least of all their goals, but I'm sure there are villains out there with goals more vile than those of Yahiko (I see world domination, or just to rule over a smaller group of people, as one of them, but I guess it depends on why you want to rule the world and what you, well, want the population to do for you and also how you treat them).
And are Yahiko's goals really that bad? I got the impression he didn't like the war and would like for it to end, but to end the war, and prevent new ones from flaring up in the future, you would first have to make everyone suffer, make them understand just what war means and what it involves. If so, his true goal is to one day bring peace to the world, a noble act if I ever saw one. He's like Yagami Light, only less psycho.


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  #1205  
Old October 2nd, 2007, 6:32 pm
unconvinced  Male.gif unconvinced is offline
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Re: Naruto

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Then your brother must have had a very fun weekend
I wouldn't know I haven't been able to talk to him


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  #1206  
Old October 2nd, 2007, 7:28 pm
soetkin  Undisclosed.gif soetkin is offline
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Re: Naruto

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I didn't mean that Yahiko's desire for mutual understanding was bad. But you know, if you kill everyone's family so that they would understand what you had to go through, then in the end....how many people would be left to share your ever-lasting peace? Oh wait, not a lot .

I still find it scary. And regarding Light, um. Well, I hated him. So this comparison doesn't really work for me. But discussing morals of any kind is a really tricky business in the first place. So I feel bad for starting this now .


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Just imagine, you can start things over every time you don't get your way. You can exclude anyone who thinks outside the box and soon no one will think outside of it, or those who do won't admit it. At which point, the individuality of the human race will be forfeit. But it is so much easier than having a cordial discussion. ~ clkginny
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  #1207  
Old October 2nd, 2007, 10:38 pm
darkchild  Female.gif darkchild is offline
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Re: Naruto

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Well duh, how could the world be peaceful if it had a lot of people in it? Wipe them out I say and there shall be peace at last!
Seriously though, he wouldn't have to kill everyone (he must leave some to suffer).

And sorry, I misunderstood your post a bit

Regarding Light, I just meant his goals was basically the same as Yahiko's, but their means and reasons for doing it is of course different.


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  #1208  
Old October 6th, 2007, 11:42 am
soetkin  Undisclosed.gif soetkin is offline
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Re: Naruto

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Frankly, it's enough to have two persons to create a ruckus.

But more onto topic, I liked drawing in 373 (although we still didn't get a complete raw, just Chinese scans so the translations are still iffy and causing some misunderstandings among fans...). And in general I think it wasn't a bad chapter. Just some plot-developments aren't all that satisfying....we have another doujutsu that is supposed to be greatest of all *sigh*. And Konan.....is Jiraiya's hair uncuttable? Or is Konan so soft at heart that she can't even fathom the thought of taking a kunai and cutting her former sensei's hair?

I really hoped that there would be no reason for Pein to do anything to Jiraiya, because Konan would have heartlessly rapestomped him by the time Pein arrived (Pein could have killed Kakashi later so Naruto would have a double-revenge issue with them). Ok, silly me. In 372 we got confirmation to Konan being an old softy.
But seriously, I DO hope that her paper-jutsus aren't the only things she can do. And that this shameful incident of her getting done with in three panels was just due to her being overwhelmed with nostalgic feelings that confused her entirely. Yeah, right.

I wonder who's that strong kunoichi that Kishimoto bragged about in the past...

EDIT: Ah, seems like we HAVE the raw, for some strange reasons NF hasn't updated, though.


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Just imagine, you can start things over every time you don't get your way. You can exclude anyone who thinks outside the box and soon no one will think outside of it, or those who do won't admit it. At which point, the individuality of the human race will be forfeit. But it is so much easier than having a cordial discussion. ~ clkginny

Last edited by soetkin; October 6th, 2007 at 11:49 am.
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  #1209  
Old October 13th, 2007, 9:08 pm
darkchild  Female.gif darkchild is offline
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Re: Naruto

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Wow, Jiraiya has some crazy hair.
I liked the chameleon and the new frog (forgottenhisname) but does this mean Gamabunta is no longer with us ?

I am really eager to find out what happened to them, what it was that caused Yahiko's death and trigged Nagato's god complex. I also want to find out more about madara and how he fits into the equation. It is tempting to asume he met them shortly after Jiraiya left and took care of, i.e brainwashed, them. But that theory clashes with the one where they revive Madara and put him into Obito's body...

Konan...is a bit of a dissapointmen, yes, but this wasn't her fight, I'm sure (that is I hope) she could've gotten out, had the fight not been interrupted.


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  #1210  
Old October 16th, 2007, 8:35 pm
soetkin  Undisclosed.gif soetkin is offline
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Re: Naruto

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A friend of mine suggested another possibility....the one with Yahiko dying is possible but not the only option. It could be that Nagato got fatally injured instead and Yahiko (being helpful as always) offered him his body so Nagato could take him over (probably like he has taken over the bodies we saw) and survive. So Nagato survived in Yahiko's body (the one we have known as AL since the beginning) and continued to live to make Yahiko's dreams come true (since Yahiko the "noble" one was dead, sort of). That would at least explain why we don't see Nagato's original body anywhere near.
This one's like the Kakashi/Obito case taken to extreme.

I, personally, don't think that anyone had to really brainwash those three kids. They seemed pretty ruined by the time we first saw them in the flash-backs. At least Yahiko certainly was and Nagato was probably feeling really guilty after killing that chuunin.

I wonder if this body was chosen specifically to fight Jiraiya? The latter is a well-known summoner so maybe (so far it's a reasonable assumption) Pein's current body's strongest jutsus are the summoning-kind as well and that's why Pein actually changed the bodies.


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Just imagine, you can start things over every time you don't get your way. You can exclude anyone who thinks outside the box and soon no one will think outside of it, or those who do won't admit it. At which point, the individuality of the human race will be forfeit. But it is so much easier than having a cordial discussion. ~ clkginny
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  #1211  
Old October 19th, 2007, 1:33 pm
darkchild  Female.gif darkchild is offline
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Re: Naruto

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He said it himself, he took out this body to kill an intruder, so this must be his fighting body. Or he just doesn't want the first body we saw to get hurt (it must be his favourite considering he uses it all the time). However, I don't think he knew beforehand it was Jiraiya he was going to fight.

Yahiko offering his body to save Nagato...it is an interesting idea, but I can't really imagine Yahiko doing something like that, even less Nagato accepting his offering. But even so, now that I think about it, they are very similar to team Minato. Yahiko being Kakashi who picks on Nagato (Obito), calling a crybaby, and Rin is Konan and has a crush on Yahiko (which I'm sure she had). So what if Nagato got badly hurt, but he hadn't figured out how to transfer into a different body, so he offered his eyes to Yahiko so he and Konan could continue their noble quest for world peace and suffering.

Anyway, I've only read the spoilers, but this weeks chapter doesn't sound all that great. Just more summons. Some dodgy hermits among other things.


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  #1212  
Old October 19th, 2007, 9:49 pm
soetkin  Undisclosed.gif soetkin is offline
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Re: Naruto

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He said it himself, he took out this body to kill an intruder, so this must be his fighting body. Or he just doesn't want the first body we saw to get hurt (it must be his favourite considering he uses it all the time). However, I don't think he knew beforehand it was Jiraiya he was going to fight
.
Yes, you're right here, my bad. But then again I wonder....if this one's for fights and the first one was, say, for the statue-related jutsu, gathering information via the Rain of Doom and er....telepathy then what on earth are the remaining bodies for? What would he NEED other bodies for? The big one's for eating chips and cookies? Please...I think Kishi overdid it a bit with 6 bodies....or at least, with making already 2 of those so powerful.

Last chapter is a bore, although I liked Fluffy aka dog with many heads.


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Just imagine, you can start things over every time you don't get your way. You can exclude anyone who thinks outside the box and soon no one will think outside of it, or those who do won't admit it. At which point, the individuality of the human race will be forfeit. But it is so much easier than having a cordial discussion. ~ clkginny
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  #1213  
Old October 19th, 2007, 11:34 pm
darkchild  Female.gif darkchild is offline
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Re: Naruto

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Well, Yahiko's body (assuming it is), could be kept for nostalgic reasons and he doesn't want to put it at risk for getting killed or hurt, so he would need some backup bodies. He doesn't want some weak bodies, so whenever he came across a strong shinobi with unusual and powerful abilities he took the opportunity to collect it. His own might be among there as well and the fat body is obviously for cookies.

But that's probably not the real, or at least sole, reason as to why he keeps them. What's bothering me is that there seem to be room for specifically six bodies, meaning he needs these six bodies, no more no less.
He is strong enough already and he can control the rain with this new body as well, so his abilities seem to transfer along with his mind. There's got to be something more to it other than him collecting people with powerful blodlines and keeping them as spares, but I don't know what that would be. Controlling the statue?

And what is up with all the piercings? Even his summons are covered in them.


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  #1214  
Old October 20th, 2007, 12:54 pm
soetkin  Undisclosed.gif soetkin is offline
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Re: Naruto

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Piercings are supposed to keep the soul in the body? Or attach the body to the soul? I think attaching is more appropriate word since the summoned animals, as you pointed out, are pierced as well. You know.....I have a theory. In order for the bodies you are taking over (case with humans) or just using (case with summons) not to die you have to use sealing piercings. Maybe he took over that chuunin (obviously without any piercings) and the man died because of that.

And the number six....first Jiraiya's comment about six chakra affinities raised a ruckus on another forum since it was established earlier that there are FIVE affinities. So people are at loss now...I don't think even Kishimoto would make such a blatant error. Or rather, I don't think any mangaka would make such an error.
And then there's that sage of six paths or whatever that's supposed to be. Aand it's related to Pein (well, rinnegan, but since Pein is the only one with rinnegan, it's related to him). And what I don't really get is why Kishimoto created so similar abilities for Kakuzu then? Kakuzu had five hearts and had therefore five affinities. Of course, the key word with Pein is SIX, but we don't know what the sixth affinity could be. It's still repetitive.
Hey, wait.....maybe changing the bodies and using six particular bodies has something to do with the amount of chakra? Using different summons and creating rain in a country (as small one but nonetheless) seem like some pretty draining abilities.
Nah. I don't know...Then emerges the question....defeating him isn't like defeating Kakuzu. We don't even know if destroying the bodies would actually do anything to Pein's soul. My (stolen, but still usable) hypothesis about Nagato almost dying and Yahiko offering his own body to save a comrade would imply that yes, losing material body is lethal to rinneganers, but then again.....we don't really know yet, now do we?
It would add a little bit of versatility to the story if destroying the bodies wouldn't do the trick, actually. *cough*HP*cough*


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Just imagine, you can start things over every time you don't get your way. You can exclude anyone who thinks outside the box and soon no one will think outside of it, or those who do won't admit it. At which point, the individuality of the human race will be forfeit. But it is so much easier than having a cordial discussion. ~ clkginny

Last edited by soetkin; October 20th, 2007 at 8:03 pm.
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  #1215  
Old October 21st, 2007, 12:16 am
darkchild  Female.gif darkchild is offline
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Re: Naruto

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Okej, I have finally read the chapter properly and I wonder; did I misinterpret the final page or does Jiraiya actually descends from...frogs!? Hmm, interesting developments. My spontaneous reaction was ***, but I think I'm going to like Frog Jiraiya.

That the piercings are attaching the soul to the body sounds plausible. They could also be suppressing it, making it easier to take control of the body.

I believe the sixth affinity is something like the affinities holy grale. In the translation I read Jiraiya said that no one can have possession over all six elements, but I think what he really meant was that no one has ever been able to possess this sixth element, that no one except Nagato has ever had an affinity for it, therefor they never speak of it or teaches it at school. It's hardly a mistake, we'll soon find out more about it. Hopefully it is something sinister. Or it's just that yin and yang stuff.

Really, Pein's six bodies and Madara's posing as Tobi...I don't know what to think about those.
Only thing I can say is that I wouldn't mind if he switched to another body the moment before he recieved the deathblow, but if the body dies when he's "in it" so to speak, I'd like him to die along with it. Hm, question arises; can he switch to any body or is he limited to only those six? And does he need the machine to do it, or is that only a storeage for the bodies not in use?



Last edited by darkchild; October 21st, 2007 at 12:20 am.
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  #1216  
Old October 26th, 2007, 6:16 pm
soetkin  Undisclosed.gif soetkin is offline
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Re: Naruto

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The bodies get even more questionable after 376...are they so weak that Pein has to summon some more so that 3 (!) could *maybe* defeat Jiraiya? 3 bodies....that's actually half of his er...collection. So a Sannin=3 bodies? Orochimaru=3 bodies? Who are you kidding, Kishimoto?!
Okay, it's fairly certain now that Orochimaru was weaker than Jiraiya (even I, THE Orochimaru-tard, have to grudgingly admit this). Although all this business with tongues becoming new frogs makes it seem like Orochimaru and Jiraiya have actually similar abilities (which we didn't think was true before). Still, why all the fuss? Pein seems to have some boring personality as well...he can't even say something remotely witty. But that's probably so for Naruto to be able to *****slap him verbally with his banal speeches later on...

Oh, and the prophecy...I had the impression that Sasuke was the boy who lived. Marked and stuff. The cool boy, not the sidekick (Ron).
Well. Why did Kishimoto THINK he didn't have a complex enough plot already?!
We had the Uchiha plot-line with million questions, Naruto's literal inner demon, Yondaime's clever plans and Pein had the potential to be a political master-mind.
THEN Rinnegan was introduced. It was kitch enough.
And now we have an icing on the cake - the prophecy...


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Just imagine, you can start things over every time you don't get your way. You can exclude anyone who thinks outside the box and soon no one will think outside of it, or those who do won't admit it. At which point, the individuality of the human race will be forfeit. But it is so much easier than having a cordial discussion. ~ clkginny
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  #1217  
Old October 26th, 2007, 6:38 pm
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SSJ_Jup81  Female.gif SSJ_Jup81 is offline
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Re: Naruto

I thought this was for the anime only now? There's a Naruto manga topic in the manga section.

That aside, I'm finally caught up with the anime.


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  #1218  
Old October 26th, 2007, 7:56 pm
soetkin  Undisclosed.gif soetkin is offline
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Re: Naruto

Really? Has the manga thread existed for a long time already?

Well, thankfully everything has been covered up in the spoiler tags so far.

EDIT: Yes it has, but it seems to have absolutely died out so I don't feel really confident about reviving it.


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Just imagine, you can start things over every time you don't get your way. You can exclude anyone who thinks outside the box and soon no one will think outside of it, or those who do won't admit it. At which point, the individuality of the human race will be forfeit. But it is so much easier than having a cordial discussion. ~ clkginny

Last edited by soetkin; October 26th, 2007 at 8:00 pm.
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  #1219  
Old October 26th, 2007, 11:07 pm
darkchild  Female.gif darkchild is offline
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Re: Naruto

Yeah, that thread kinda died.
Didn't even know there was a seperate manga section...*goes to look for it*

Ah, yeah, there it was, cleverly hidden behind the fiction. Well then, let's continue the dicussion about the manga there, shall we?

As for the anime, a few weeks ago I had my doubts, but it's really starting to shape up. The rescue Gaara arc has had some very inconsistent animation and been dragged out for an eternity. Some parts were downright awful and others were great, like episode 26. I was so dissappointed with 29-30, when Naruto went into Kyuubi mode. I've been longing to see that scene animated for so long now and they totally screwed it up. But I have to say Naruto's seiyuu has some mad voice acting skills!

I did enjoy these two last episodes though (the Kakashi on Gai action, Deidara strangeling Tobi, Naruto's and Gaara's handshake (I love that moment), is also scenes I've been looking forward to see, and they were handled really well imo), 33's preview looks excellent and it seems like they are going to speed things up. And I'm really surprised over how excited I am to see Sai! Not that I dislike him or anything, but he's not one of my favourites either. Now all I can think of is OMgSaiSaiSai.


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  #1220  
Old October 26th, 2007, 11:36 pm
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Re: Naruto

I'm glad that Sai is finally going to be around too. Should show to be quite interesting.


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