So you want to study Japanese?

[Lil_G135]

Originally Posted by SSJ_Jup81-san

Hey, out of curiosity, how would I say "Stop it!" like a command? Wouldn't it be, "Yamete kudasai!"

Sounds good, though more of "Please stop it." to me ('cause of the "kudasai" part). For "Stop it!", "Yamete yo!" or "Yamero yo!" could work. Plain "yamete" seems more like just plain "Stop it." But "Yamete kudasai" is of course politer and safer ^.^; Just depends on who your usin' it for I guess.

Originally Posted by SSJ_Jup81-san

To answer the phone, though, you use "moshi-moshi".

Oy, I've got most of the phone talk down, but "hanashichuu desu" and "machigaema****a" gets me a lot.

[Lil_G135]

I almost forgot that White Day was yesterday Did anyone celebrate?

私はバレンタインデーに私のともだちのお兄さん、レニーにちいさいプレゼントをあげましたから、レニーくん はホワイトデーに私にさるのさいふをくれました。かわいいですねえ。

Atashi wa BARENTAINDEE ni atashi no tomodachi no oniisan, RENII ni chiisai PUREZENTO o agema****a kara, RENII-kun wa HOWAITODEE ni atashi ni saru no saifu o kurema****a. kawaii desu nee.

Because I gave my friend's brother, Lenny a small present for V-Day, on White Day Lenny gave me a monkey wallet. It's cute!

[SSJ_Jup81]

Cool. I mentioned White Day, but didn't celebrate it or anything.

[SSJ_Jup81]

Hey, I have a question. I'm trying to say "could you please help me". I would use "tasukete o kudasai", but I don't think that'd work for the scenario in question.

Anyway, here's the set up.

Person A: Konnichiwa, atashi wa <name> desu. Tasukete o kudasai.

Seems I'd have to use "onegai shimasu" or something along the lines of that, as opposed to kudasai since I'm referring to Person A wanting to be helped. Seems that kudasai is used when it comes to asking for things like objects/things (Choco o kudasai; CAKE o kudasai; Megane o kudasai; Ichigo o kudasai, etc).

So can someone help correct me here?

[Lil_G135]

SSJ_Jup81-san, sumimasen. I don't know how I missed that last post ^^;

Hm...'tetsudaimasu' is "to help" (or assist), so maybe you could use 'Tetsudatte kudasai'? Your right, using tasukerimasu sounds like the scenario would involve the "rescue" kind of help, or "giving relief", if that makes sense ^^;

[KiMiKiWi]

kyaaa~!!!! boku wa shisshi desu~!!!!...the only place wer i can learn japanese is from anime,jdorama,and arashi shows...also japanese songs...i cant afford a japanese class..it's so expensive ne~!!!
btw,i dunno if my japanese grammar is correct or not,so feel free to correct it,onegai-shimasu~
arigatou gozaimasu,minna~!!!

Originally Posted by Lil_G135

SSJ_Jup81-san, sumimasen. I don't know how I missed that last post ^^;

Hm...'tetsudaimasu' is "to help" (or assist), so maybe you could use 'Tetsudatte kudasai'? Your right, using tasukerimasu sounds like the scenario would involve the "rescue" kind of help, or "giving relief", if that makes sense ^^;

You can also say "te wo ka****akuremaska?" (Can you give me a hand?, or something to that effect)

When someone says "tasukete" I think it usally means "save me". If someone says to me "tasukete kudasai" then I would immediately think it's an emergency.

[Lil_G135]

Ooh, good one Dobbi-san, do you know the root for 'ka****akuremasu'? I'd like to write it down for future references and I'm not sure if my guess is right ^^; Oh, and youkoso, Kimikiwi-san ^_^

We did some calligraphy in class on Thursday. And.. I'm absolutely terrible at it ^_^;; My "saru" (monkey) wasn't too too bad, but my 'kinyoubi' was ghastly (my name in katakana didn't turn out too bad though). After we tried our hand at it, my sensei tried her luck at finding kanji for our namae.
Arishia-san was the easiest for her, because she used the same 'ri' and 'a' kanji from her daughter, Jyuria's, name. She found a nice 'ro' and 'rin' for Kyarorin-san, but she was stumped for a 'kya' or even 'ke' (Sensei declared it her 'weekend homework' ). But because Kyarorin's nickname is "seirin", she stuck up a nice 'sei' there nonetheless ^^ Sensei was also completely stumped for all of Choi-kun's names: Choi, Jason, and his authentic Korean one ^_^;; (also her weekend homework). Mine, she was stuck for awhile for the 'ku' but eventually found one Here it is in text, but I'll scan the real thing in on getsuyoubi:

模
似
空

The first means "role model" the second one is "similar" and the third is "sky" ^_^ I like it, and I actually understand where the pronunciations came from - as oppose that one set of kanji I found on the internet - "孤独"... the Chinese and Japanese pronunciations I've found [called on-reading and kun-reading, respectively] don't match up for my name..

[voldyvolvol]

te wo ka****akuremaska

Actually, it is ka****ekuremasu. and you pronounce the "te wo" with "te o"

watashi son-nani ippai hito ga nihongo o nalaitai te shilinaka'ta. Watashi mae dalemo nalaitakunai to omo'teta.

"I didn't know this may people wanted to learn Japanes. Before, I thought that no one wanted to"

watashi no ichiban suki na anime wa ranma ni bun no ichi. Sugoku okashikute milu no ga tanoshii desu.

"My favorite anime is Ranma 1/2. It's really funny and fun to watch."

kyaaa~!!!! boku wa shisshi desu

Your grammar's fine there, but I have no idea what you mean by "shisshi"

kedo

The meaning of "kedo" is "but" and different ways to say it are "keledomo" and "kedomo".

What did you download voldyvolvol-san? I just recently had to reinstall the ime I'm using (It just stops working after a couple months -_-; ), so maybe you could try that?

And so the informal version of '-mashou' is 'ou' or 'you'? I saw '-you' on another site (I cant find my book ;__ so that's why I'm asking

Thanks! watashi nani o downlodo ****a ka wakan nai wa...."I don't know what I downloaded.

As for the informal version, it's king of like that. When your saying "let's make it" you say "tsukulimashou" or "tsukulou" or "tsukulouyo"

"tsukulimashou" is like the formal way of saying it.
"tsukulou" is the informal way of saying it.
"tsukulouyo" is like the informal way of saying it when you really really want to do it and you are kind of impatient. If you hear "-ouyo", you will notice the anime characters seem desperate to do something.

"watashi sansai gulai no toki kala nihongo o shabe'teta kala oshielu no ga mo-cho'to muzukashi-wa. Muzukashikunai to omo'teta wa. "

Someone try to figure out what I just said.

Originally Posted by voldyvolvol

Actually, it is ka****ekuremasu. and you pronounce the "te wo" with "te o"

Yeah, it was a typo...

Lil_G135, what do you mean, "the root"?

[KiMiKiWi]

Originally Posted by voldyvolvol

Your grammar's fine there, but I have no idea what you mean by "shisshi"

hehe...it means jealous...rite???..or should i use netamashii instead???

[Lil_G135]

Originally Posted by Dobbi-san

Yeah, it was a typo...

Lil_G135, what do you mean, "the root"?

Oh, I mean dictionary form - like wakaru for 'wakarimasu' or taberu for 'tabemasu'. Sorry about that, I see those refered to both as dictionary and root form ^^;

Originally Posted by vorudivoruvoru-san

Thanks! watashi nani o downlodo ****a ka wakan nai wa...."I don't know what I downloaded.

Ooh, gotcha ^_~ same thing happened with my sensei. I just use the microsoft one 'cause it's the easiest to remember

Originally Posted by vorudivoruvoru-san

Actually, it is ka****ekuremasu. and you pronounce the "te wo" with "te o"

True, but technically Dobbi-san isn't wrong with typing it like that. Like "ra ri ru re ro", I think it's understood that it's pronounced not exactly the same way it's spelled in roomaji

Originally Posted by Kimikiwi-san

hehe...it means jealous...rite???..or should i use netamashii instead???

Ah, you got 'shisshi' from the dictionary didn't you? It means 'jealous' but I don't think it's too common... 'netamashii' is a na-adj, but I'm not sure if that's common either ^^;;

Now this may be confusing, 'cause reading over I find it a little confusing ^-^;; But you could put 'netamimasu' (to be jealous) in te-form and add "imasu" at the end so it will be 'Boku wa netande imasu' or "I am jealous."

Oh, and btw, do you consider yourself fairly tomboyish Kimikiwi-san? I'm just asking from your usage of 'boku' ^^;

[KiMiKiWi]

Originally Posted by Lil_G135

Ah, you got 'shisshi' from the dictionary didn't you? It means 'jealous' but I don't think it's too common... 'netamashii' is a na-adj, but I'm not sure if that's common either ^^;;

Now this may be confusing, 'cause reading over I find it a little confusing ^-^;; But you could put 'netamimasu' (to be jealous) in te-form and add "imasu" at the end so it will be 'Boku wa netande imasu' or "I am jealous."

Oh, and btw, do you consider yourself fairly tomboyish Kimikiwi-san? I'm just asking from your usage of 'boku' ^^;

arigatou-gozaimasu ne Lil_G135~....erm, im just a plain person,not really tomboy,not really girly....is 'boku' considered rough or manly???...i never really know how to use 'watashi' well;is 'watashi' suitable for any sentence?? i never knew...gomen-ne~

[Lil_G135]

Quick recap of some the I's:

Watashi - Can be used by anyone
Atashi -- More feminine version of 'watashi'
Boku/Ore -- More masculine version of 'watashi'
Watakushi -- polite form of 'watashi'

They can all be used in the same way. Somewhere in this thread there are better explanations though ^^:;

[Ignolopi]

Yes, thanks to this thread, I no longer keep saying 'ore wa'... hehe.

I've been playing with the podcasts, and it's fun. Arigato gozaimasu, cady_seekool-san.
And arigato, minna-san, for the help with datte ba yo; it's lots of fun to say but I guess I shouldn't be saying it .

I've finally started learning hiragana... for real this time .
Memorizing Japanese spoken words has become easier; I just use them around the house until I remember what they mean...

Are there plurals in Japanese? I heard somewhere there weren't.

Now I've heard used 'mata ne', 'ja ne', and 'ja mata'. Do they all basically mean the same thing?

Well, arigato, I'm sorry I can't be of more help to others here, but I really appreciate the help.

Ja ne!

[Lil_G135]

Yeah, basically 'ja ne', 'ja matta', 'matta ne' 'ja, matta (atode)' do get the same point across - but they mean slightly different things. (and I mean slight!)

i.e.

Ja ne = See you
Ja matta = See you later
Matta ne = Later
Ja, matta (atode) = Well (then), see you later.

-'Ja' by itself means "Well then," but in my book it's only used as "well (then)" in the last phrase.
-The 'atode' is in brackets because it's replacable -- though I mostly hear it replaced with 'a****a' or "tomorrow". Like I havent really heard Ja matta kinyoubi, but I think it's possible.

There are some plurals in Japanese, but as of yet I haven't "officially" learned them yet. But I'm always going ahead in my book, so I found this nifty little kanji "々" that pluralizes words There's no listed pronunciation, but when added to the following words, they become... pluralized! ^^:

i.e.

木 (ki) => Tree.
木々 (kigi) => Trees

山 (yama) => Mountain
山々(yamayama) => Mountains

日 (hi) => Day
日々 (hibi) => Days

人 (hito) => Person
人々(hitobito) => People

家 (ie) => House
家々(ieie) => Houses

This is coming up really soon, so I'll add to this eventually

My original sensei will be back tomorrow! I'm happy, yet a little sad, as I've come to really like Kyoko-sensei. Of all my sensei, she was the easiest to ask questions to. However, I've missed Chie-sensei, and I hope she's as 'alright' as she says she is.

On a different note, is anyone going to be in the Washington DC area next week? If so, are you going to check out the Sakura Matsuri on April 8th? I totally recommend going there I've never been...but my classmates tell me the performances, the shops, and the activities are really really good ^^ I'm volunteering there this year too (where, I don't know cause the job I applied for was filled) so if you do come we could exchange 'K'nnichiwa!" and random Japanese phrases that would otherwise confuse random tourists

*edit* atashi no namae no kanji. woo... hai douzo:

[Naruhodo]

Ohiyo, minnasan - (sorry for romaji...I'm in class...)

[SSJ_Jup81]

Cool; I wonder what my name would be in kanji. Oh yeah, thanks for the explanation you gave for me earlier, Lil_G135. Been busy for the past few days. I went to an anime-con and just recently got back from it.

[Lil_G135]

Ah, there you are. Haven't seen you in a whi-- Ooh, jealousness! How was it SSJ_Jup81-san? I've never been to an animecon UU;;

And on a different note... I went over this entire thread (yes, I have no life), and noticed a couple things.
One, being that people like Tonksaholic, Apple_sensation, MarcKal, yahwehgrl, and dragonblk17 (just to name a few) are (almost) total beginners and/or has no available Japanese class or textbooks to work with, but have expressed a desire to learn Japanese.

Two, Muku-Muku said in the earlier pages that this was a thread for beginners and mediumers and advancers-- all helping each other to learn more, right? However... it's kind of difficult due to

~)Explanations on the basics are few and far between (since this is a large thread and different topics have been thrown around)
~)When there are explanations on the basics, we tend to explain the same things over and over, so it's like we're stuck in a rut.
~)The medium and advance people making advance and long conversation with unfamiliar sentence structure and vocab etc etc(totally guilty for that ~_~0)

Therefore... I thought it would be nice to have an "official" Basic Basics explanation -- something that can be like copied and pasted on every new page by anyone (or the veeery first post) so it doesn't have to be explained to death PLUS it's easier to find when it's needed.

Also, I'm gonna tone down a little to simpler sentences so new learners can understand Which brings me to my next "also" ^^; I'd like to post some basic (copiable) sentence structures and vocabulary so the absolute newbie can begin to make sentences if they wanted.

Course, I am not a guru at this, and I'd like to make this a group effort. That being said, while I was going through all 22 pages I made notes on who explained what so when I go over something everyone who posted about that gets credited (reenforcing that I am no wisdom-filled guru who knows all ) Also, your welcome to fix mistakes or add something or someone I've missed.

Like? Don't like? I'll be back with the Basic Basics list in a few.

~*~*~*~

Okie, The Basic Basics!!

**Programs you can download to write in Japanese**
-NJ Star
-Microsoft Global IMEs

(courtesy of chiba_anna, Feenikusu, Lil_G135 )

Writing System

1)Japanese's writing system is phonetic, meaning the characters are based on sounds and not individual letters.There are four different writing systems, but only are three 'alphabets'.

Alphabets

~)First is Hiragana, the most basic alphabet (If you're into history, it was created in the Heian period, derived from the kanji). There are 46 characters that represent 46 different sounds and when written they are slightly curved. It is mostly used for Japanese words, though sometimes used to spell out foreign words in books and video games for younge children.

Examples of hiragana: あいうえお

~~)Second is Katakana. Like hiragana, katakana has 46 characters that represent the same sounds. The difference is katakana are different characters, which are more straight and less curvy. Katakana also is used for words of foreign origin or foreign names. It s also used as a device to call attention to words in advertising, announcements, etc. Onomatopoeias and some Japanese names may be written in katakana as well.

Examples of katakana:アイウエオ

~~~)Third alphabet is 'Romanji'. Seems like the easiest at first, it is using the English alphabet to spell out the Japanese. There are however, several exceptions, so an understanding of hiragana and pronunciation is most likely required.

Examples of Romanji: A,Ki, Nu, Me, Ro

I said before there was four writing styles, and so there is. After hiragana, katakana, and romanji there is Kanji. Kanji isn't an alphabet, as there are literally thousands of characters. And unfortunately, to be fluent in Japanese it is said it is good to know at least 3,000 (the amount you'd need to read a newspaper) of these. Japanese kanji is from the Chinese kanji and the most basic explanation I can give is when you put these characters together, they symbolize words, such as "school" and "forest" and "food" etc. Kanji can have more than one sound, so it is virtually possible to have seven words that share one or more kanji.

Not only is kanji used to represent Japanese words, it is also used for names (Japanese AND foreign).

Examples of kanji: 学校,先生,愛

A nonspecific name of hiragana, katakana, and kanji is 'kana'.

(courtesy of Dobby, Lil_G135, chiba_anna, SakuraNenriki)

~*~

Pronunciation

In the Writing System section, it states that Japanese has a phonetic writing system, based on sounds. This section is little guide on how to use Japanese pronunciation as correctly as possible.

Vowels

Japanese has 5 vowels (sorry, no "and sometimes 'y' here). They are あ (a), い (i),う (u),え (e), and お (o). In cases if your computer doesn't support kana, I'll use romanji hereforth.

A is pronounced like the 'a' in father. -- Ah. "Ah...what an interesting scene."
I is pronounced like the 'i' in machine. -- Ee. "Ee! A spider is eating a rat over there!"
U is pronounced like the 'u' in the name Sue. -- Oo. "Ooh...the rat suddenly flew away."
E is pronounced like the 'e' in ledge. -- Eh. "Eh? How did that happen though??"
O is pronounced like the 'o' in obey. -- Oh. "Oh.. it's because I'm watching all of this on t.v."

Japanese syllables

To understand the next few semi-sections, here is a list, or rather chart of the sounds on the hiragana/katakana charts as well as the different sounds they make when put together and when two Japanese punctuation marks.

*-Two Punctuation Marks-*

。= This is maru. If you cannot see it, it is a little circle, and is the period of a sentence (as opposed to the dot). However, when you put maru to the top/mid right of a few characters, it changes their sound to a "P" sound.
、= This is ten. If you cannot see it, it is a tiny diagonal dash that serves as a comma. However, when you place two ten (ten-ten) at the top/mid right of some characrers, it changes their sound, which varies per character.

Now, the syllables:



You see with ten-ten The K, S, H, and T rows become G, Z and B rows respectively, giving those sounds. T is a bit more varied, but you'll have to memorize the exceptions.
Also, you see with maru the H row becomes P, making those sounds.

You should also be about to see that every row (with the exception of the first five vowels, and Wa, (W)o, and N) the first character can be be mixed with a small Ya, Yu, or Yo to get even more sounds. However, only the K, R and H rows can be mixed with these without ten-ten and maru (K & H not shown in the chart... they become "Kya" "kyu" "kyo" "Hya" "hyu" and "hyo"). The first five vowels can also become small and mixed with the other characters to create more sounds (more common in katakana though).

These take time to learn, so I don't try to go at them all at once ^_^; These next semi-sections in-depthly explain some of the syllables and pronunciations.

Tsu

A hard sound to pronounce. People tend to split of the 't' and 's' sound (i.e. Kat-sumi), or ignore the 't' altogether (Kasumi). Tsu is pronounced like the end of the word cats.

Ra/Ri/Ru/Re/Ro/Rya/Ryu/Ryo

Listening to the "R", you may be surprised how it sounds similar to "L". There is no actual "r" sound in Japanese, so even in Katakana if your name starts with an "r" it will sound like an "L". (This situation is the same with V/B and H/F sounds) To achieve the sound, to put your tongue on the roof of your mouth, close to your teeth, but not touching them. If it's easier, than just pronounce the "r" like you would an "l".

Fu

Pronounced like the 'wh' in the word 'who'. To get a Fa/Fi/Fe/Fo sound you would mixed Fu with a small A/I/E/O.

Ou

You might not notice the 'ou' in romanji, as some people do not spell it out. In fact, words like Tokyo, Kobe, and Sayonara are commonly known to be spelled that way in English. However, if you spell out each Japanese character, they are really "Toukyou', 'Koube' and 'Sayounara'.

The 'ou' sound is just a longer 'o' sound. Sometimes it is spelled with a double 'oo' and sometimes it's spelled 'ou'.

Long Vowels in General

Like 'ou', other letters can be extended as well. It may not seem to matter in words like 'sayounara', but others... it's a distinction between other words.

Examples:

-Ie = house
-Iie = No

-Shujin = husband
-Shuujin = prisoner

So to make a distinction between words you would have to extend the sound a little.

N

Unlike the other characters, 'n' is a sound - but without a vowel. Depending on the word 'n' can be pronounced as either an n sound (nnn), an m sound (mm), or a sort of nasal sound (ng), like exhaling through your nose. Nothing ever starts with 'n'.

Equal Stress

Unlike English, emphasis on syllables tend to be uniform in (general) Japanese. No one syllable should be accented more heavily than any of the other syllables in the word, unless there is an extended vowel (i.e. ou), and even then it shouldn't be too long.

Example:

English- Kuh-GO-May
Japanese- Kah-Goh-Meh
English- O-Keh-Naw-WAH
Japanese- Oh-Ki-Nah-Wah

(courtesy of chiba_anna, Mist_of_Avalon, Muku Muku, Dobby
Qeomash, SakuraNenriki, Lil_G135, Rei)

~*~

Honorifics/Titles

An honorific is a word or expression that conveys esteem or respect and is used in addressing or referring to a person. In Japanese, their usually sufixes you attach to the end of a person's name.

Examples of Honorifics/Their meanings/when to use them

-san = Equivalent to Mr/Ms/Mrs, but it is also just for politeness. A person is often refered to as "Last Name"-san by a person of the same level/status.
-chan = An affectionate suffix. For children or young people in general. Also used as petnames between friends, family, or lovers. (i.e. 'nameofyourbestfriend-chan, obaachan [grandma], mamochan [sailor moon's petname for tuxedo kamen])
-tan = slang for -chan
-kun = just like -san, but for boys usually at your level. (If its an adult male, you would probably use -kun for younger males) Also used for your (male) friends. Can be used for females, though a bit tomboyish sounding.
-sama = Politer version of -san. Usually used with your superiors conversationally. In letters you address the reciever (no matter what status) with -sama as well. Shinto gods are refered to ___-sama as well.
-donou = Politer version of 'sama'. Similar to 'sir' or 'madam'
-sensei = used with anyone with knowledge superior to yours. Commonly used for teaches, doctors, masters, professors etc.
-sempai = Suffix for people who have higher experience than you (i.e. your upperclassmen)
-kohai = opposite of -sempai, used for someone with lower experience than you (i.e. underclassmem)
-ka = Like sensei, though a bit more specific. Leans toward "expert" at something. (i.e. manga-ka => manga artist, an expert at manga)
-koi = short for koibito which is 'lover' or 'sweetheart'. Petname used for a significant other
-han = equal to -san, only in a different dialect (kansai, used in places such as Kyoto)
-iemoto = A higher version of sensei; for the the top or best of the best.
-senshuu = Equal to -san, but for sports figures
-hikoku = for the defendant or for a convicted criminal
-bozu = Used for younger people, equal to the term 'kid or 'squirt'.
-chama = Combination of -sama and -chan. Can be used for people to sound affectionate, but respectful (i.e. ojiichama = grandfather).
-baka = Impolite suffix to basically call someone stupid, or an idiot.
-yarou = Even more impolite than -baka
-aho = Similar to -baka, though more along the lines as 'mentally challenged' or 'retarded
yobisute = Important one people don't mention. Yobisute is the absense of a suffix, and is used people you are really familiar with (i.e. good friends, family, spouse). On the other hand of 'familiar', you can use it on a person you don't want to give any respect to.

(courtesy of Muku Muku, Naruhodo, ponabelle, SyeiraSerena, Nurikabe, Dobby, godrics hollow, Lil_G135, SakuraNenriki, SSJ_Jup81)

~*~

[SSJ_Jup81]

Originally Posted by Lil_G135

Ah, there you are. Haven't seen you in a whi-- Ooh, jealousness! How was it SSJ_Jup81-san? I've never been to an animecon UU;;

Oh, it was really fun! My very first one. ^_^ I plan on writing a LJ entry on it...some day. lol

That aside, there's going to be one here in Richmond in June. I'm going to that.